10 Reasons Linux Gamers Might Want to Pass On the NVIDIA RTX Series

Red Falcon said:
Also, if Linux became the majority OS in the world, I guarantee you the amount of exploits being researched, discovered, and exploited (no pun intended) would increase drastically and exponentially, and our Linux servers and desktops don't need to take that kind of hit right now!!! :D
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This is to be expected, however the issue would be nowhere near as bad as it is under Windows. ;)
 
heatlesssun said:
Right, because what could be a better way to promote freedom from Microsoft than providing runtime binary support for Windows games on Linux without developer having to do anything!

I understand that you and other Linux fans choose to ignore it but the lack of native Linux content is still a serious problem for Linux gaming.
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It appears that it's a problem for you and about three others, personally I'm really enjoying gaming under Linux. You just can't seem to grasp the concept that hardcore gamers are minimal in the grand scheme of things, not to be confused with the average gamers that make up the bulk of the gaming user base.
 
Mazzspeed said:
It appears that it's a problem for you and about three others, personally I'm really enjoying gaming under Linux. You just can't seem to grasp the concept that hardcore gamers are minimal in the grand scheme of things, not to be confused with the average gamers that make up the bulk of the gaming user base.
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And you don't seem to grasp that most PC games don't have native Linux support, tons of indie titles don't.
 
heatlesssun said:
And you don't seem to grasp that most PC games don't have native Linux support, tons of indie titles don't.
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I grasp that concept perfectly. I also understand that there's gamers out there that would drop Windows 10 in a heartbeat if there was an alternative that supported a proportion of titles they play due to the issues surrounding Windows 10, no one plays even remotely close to 100% of the Steam catalog.

I was one of these people at one stage and I'm perfectly happy.
 
Mazzspeed said:
I don't care and neither does the bulk of the gaming population.
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If Valve can't push out a production level version of Steam VR in going on two years, what hope do they have in pushing out something that provides widespread Windows compatibility, INCULDING VR, in a year? Amazing you don't care about VR yet Steam Play actually covers VR. You Linux gaming folks are just amazing sometimes.
 
heatlesssun said:
If Valve can't push out a production level version of Steam VR in going on two years, what hope do they have in pushing out something that provides widespread Windows compatibility, INCULDING VR, in a year?
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You're going down your rabbit hole again.

Every thread on Linux you rant on about the same points of argument, incapable of accepting that Linux is quickly becoming a viable gaming alternative - And in comparison to the amount of time Windows has been a viable gaming platform Linux development is happening very rapidly.

I'm really not interested in going over the same points of argument, it's an operating system. As I've stated before, I trust that the bulk of the HOCP community has the intelligence to see past your rantings anyway.
 
Microsoft's Dream is to have everyone code in "Don't Call It Metro," and officially cut-off old compatibility layers, so they can make money off each sale, and make Windows easier to support, and force universal support for DX games.

Valve's Dream is to create a gaming API that is platform-independent from the DX12 Microsoft is peddling,along with a compatibility layer for older software.

Of the two, Valve is far more likely to succeed, but people won't care about Valve's Exit Strategy as long as Microsoft's Dream does not come to pass.

And Microsoft will never kill Win32 / COM. They have too many ALREADY ESTABLISHED competitors with their own closed stores (Origin, UPlay, Steam, iTunes, Bethesda, Blizzard, Epi Launcher) , not to mention piles-and-piles of custom legacy software projects that runs in myriad versions of Visual Studio.

If this impossibility came to pass, if these developers were forced to rewrite their apps the developers would likely make a serious push to Linux, and leverage the Valve exit platform (WIN32 apps should be as easy to get working in Steam Play as games., if they make the e investments in compatibility now)
 
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Mazzspeed said:
It appears that it's a problem for you and about three others, personally I'm really enjoying gaming under Linux. You just can't seem to grasp the concept that hardcore gamers are minimal in the grand scheme of things, not to be confused with the average gamers that make up the bulk of the gaming user base.
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Lol... are you really playing the "you're a a niche case" argument here? Linux is a niche, gaming under linux is a tiny niche of a niche. There are very likely many times more "hardcore" gamers than there are linux users, let alone linux gamers. Hell there are nearly three times more gamers using the 1080ti in the steam hardware survey than there are gamers running linux.
 
defaultluser said:
And Microsoft will never kill Win32 / COM. They have too many ALREADY ESTABLISHED competitors with their own closed stores (Origin, UPlay, Steam, iTunes, Bethesda, Blizzard, Epi Launcher) , not to mention piles-and-piles of custom legacy software projects that runs in myriad versions of Visual Studio.
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This!!!
 
heatlesssun said:
Steam Play with still be in beta this time next year.
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There will be a beta version forever.... Its how software development works.

It really doesn't matter... I think I have already explained to you how steam play is a dangle they intend to sell to Google not you. Steam Play is an in for 100% Linux running streaming servers that don't have to pay MS one red cent. Count on it. :)
 
ChadD said:
There will be a beta version forever.... Its how software development works.
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Not what I was saying. Still in beta meaning not in production for the next year at least.

ChadD said:
It really doesn't matter... I think I have already explained to you how steam play is a dangle they intend to sell to Google not you. Steam Play is an in for 100% Linux running streaming servers that don't have to pay MS one red cent. Count on it. :)
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Sure. I've long said whatever replaces Windows won't be anything like Windows. Windows 10 sucks so here's GamingTube! At any rate GamingTube users won't be buying GPUs so that's cool.
 
capt_cope said:
Lol... are you really playing the "you're a a niche case" argument here? Linux is a niche, gaming under linux is a tiny niche of a niche. There are very likely many times more "hardcore" gamers than there are linux users, let alone linux gamers. Hell there are nearly three times more gamers using the 1080ti in the steam hardware survey than there are gamers running linux.
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It's like the most bizarre thing. Like the Linux expert that plays a few games here and there is the face of PC gaming? "No one cares about VR!"
"No one buys GPUs!" Point to the Steam hardware survey or articles about how just little interest there is in Linux PC gaming "No one really knows how many Linux gamers are out there!" or "The Steam survey is crap."
 
heatlesssun said:
And you don't seem to grasp that most PC games don't have native Linux support, tons of indie titles don't.
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Well my friend.

WHO CARES.

What exactly is "native" supposed to mean anyway. As I have tried to explain to you Proton is NOT emulation. Its not doing anything different then windows itself is.

Yes DXVK is a wrapper... and that is "translating" a DX call to the Vulkan API. Really though that isn't going to impart a massive performance penalty. It already doesn't... but it also gets better and better. If a game uses Vulkan there is NO emulation, NO wrapping going on.... the steam play version IS native. There is no need for instance for ID to launch a Linux blob... using Vulkan its already native.

Think of it this way heatle. Lets say someone gives me the VLC Linux bin. It will not just RUN on a Linux system. It won't... because it has dependencies. Those library files need to be installed. So lets say my system doesn't have ffmpeg installed.... VLC will not work. However if I have all the dependencies installed... no issue way it goes. Wine is just the windows API depend you need to run software that makes those calls.

To put it in a windows centric way for you. If you try to run a game that references the MS visual C++ libraries... and you get an error something like "This application has failed to start because MSVCR100.dll was not found. Re-installing the application may fix this problem." It doesn't mean your game is NOT windows software. It means you don't have the redistributable C libraries installed on your system. Once you install them way you go. (and because windows is made for morons the default msg says reinstall your software... cause software devs that use those libraries should include them which is why MS calls them redistributable)

My point is as long as a developer uses Vulkan... there is no wrapping going on... there should be no performance loss at all. Wine translates windows API calls in the same way windows does. At that point what is the difference if we call it "native" or not... its a one click install and just goes. Who cares if it says "steam play" beside the big green play button.
 
motomonkey said:
I game on both systems, depending on where I am. Certain games are not available on Linux, so I play them on a Windows box. If I happen to be upstairs where my main Linux system is, I use that. being a gamer doesn’t mean you are restricted to one system. “Gamer” is not synonymous with Windows.
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Then you're not a linux gamer. You're a gamer, period. I didn't say gamer is synonymous with windows you're doing that. What I meant was, if you game exclusively on linux and refuse to use windows, then you're not a gamer, but a linux activist.
Implying you aren’t really a gamer unless you happen to be using a high end Windows system and playing a Windows exclusive AAA title is ludicrous and why I posted that meme about gatekeeping.
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You're imagining something then argue against it. I think that's what they call a classical strawman argument.

ChadD said:
Yes Nintendo is turning out the best games around right now... and Sony has some great exclusives as well.
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Well I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic. Either way, I was never a fan of nintendo games, but Sony does have the best exclusives.
 
capt_cope said:
Lol... are you really playing the "you're a a niche case" argument here? Linux is a niche, gaming under linux is a tiny niche of a niche. There are very likely many times more "hardcore" gamers than there are linux users, let alone linux gamers. Hell there are nearly three times more gamers using the 1080ti in the steam hardware survey than there are gamers running linux.
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And there's more users using Intel HD4000 graphics under the Steam hardware/software survey than 1080Ti's - 1.65% 1080Ti users vs 21.48% Intel HD4000 users in August to be exact. So the gaming requirements considering the bulk of users can't be that demanding.

So yes, I'm stating that the number of hardcore gamers that absolutely must have Windows 10 despite it's flaws is substantially less than you may think. Once again, there's no point arguing, Linux gaming and increased Vulkan adoption benefits everyone.

You want to talk about niches, how about the user ranting on about VR.
 
M76 said:
Well I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic. Either way, I was never a fan of nintendo games, but Sony does have the best exclusives.
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No not sarcastic. Ya Sony knows their market. They have completely destroyed any hope MS has had in that market for sure.

Nintendo does cater to their base more... which is smart. Also highly profitable. No matter what "hardcore" gamers think of Nintendo they make bank.

July 2018 video game sales top 10...

Octopath Traveler
Grand Theft Auto V
Mario Kart 8
Crash Bandicoot: N. Sane Trilogy
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Far Cry 5
Super Mario Odyssey
The Crew 2
Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six: Siege
Mario Tennis Aces

Square had to issue an apology for not having enough Octopath Traveler stock. It sold over a million copies in its first month of sales. That is pretty nuts... I mean its basically a 16 bit retro snes style RPG. I nice surprise.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...sales-in-july-octopath-traveler/#243440722435
5 of the top 10... they had the #1 spot in June as well. NPR doesn't even count Nintendo digital sales. Which is INSANE.

Say what you will about Nintendos game style the masses love it and the switch is taking names.
 
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People still pay good money for titles Nintendo released in the 80s, that's the value of Nintendo's IP. Nintendo have always played the market well.
 
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ChadD said:
What exactly is "native" supposed to mean anyway.
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Simple, it means it runs under OS kernel.

ChadD said:
To put it in a windows centric way for you. If you try to run a game that references the MS visual C++ libraries... and you get an error something like "This application has failed to start because MSVCR100.dll was not found. Re-installing the application may fix this problem." It doesn't mean your game is NOT windows software. It means you don't have the redistributable C libraries installed on your system. Once you install them way you go. (and because windows is made for morons the default msg says reinstall your software... cause software devs that use those libraries should include them which is why MS calls them redistributable)
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Every developer understand the concept of missing dependencies.

ChadD said:
My point is as long as a developer uses Vulkan... there is no wrapping going on... there should be no performance loss at all. Wine translates windows API calls in the same way windows does. At that point what is the difference if we call it "native" or not... its a one click install and just goes. Who cares if it says "steam play" beside the big green play button.
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As Vulkan is cross platform calls map one to one between OSes.
 
M76 said:
Then you're not a linux gamer. You're a gamer, period. I didn't say gamer is synonymous with windows you're doing that. What I meant was, if you game exclusively on linux and refuse to use windows, then you're not a gamer, but a linux activist.
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In what way does the OS used have anything to do with your classification as a gamer? And how does preferring Linux and gaming under your preferred operating system make you an activist?

If someone plays games on PS4 but also plays games on their PC when they feel the need, are they Sony 'activists'. :ROFLMAO:
 
ChadD said:
No not sarcastic. Ya Sony knows their market. They have completely destroyed any hope MS has had in that market for sure.

Nintendo does cater to their base more... which is smart. Also highly profitable. No matter what "hardcore" gamers think of Nintendo they make bank.

July 2018 video game sales top 10...

Octopath Traveler
Grand Theft Auto V
Mario Kart 8
Crash Bandicoot: N. Sane Trilogy
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Far Cry 5
Super Mario Odyssey
The Crew 2
Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six: Siege
Mario Tennis Aces

Square had to issue an apology for not having enough Octopath Traveler stock. It sold over a million copies in its first month of sales. That is pretty nuts... I mean its basically a 16 bit retro snes style RPG. I nice surprise.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...sales-in-july-octopath-traveler/#243440722435
5 of the top 10... they had the #1 spot in June as well. NPR doesn't even count Nintendo digital sales. Which is INSANE.

Say what you will about Nintendos game style the masses love it and the switch is taking names.
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Yes, nintendo is the king of casual gaming. Why are you telling me this then?
Nintendo's name somehow got fused with videogames, especially in the US. So for the soccer mom that is the only thing considered. No wonder they do so well. I think that is a testament to their marketing and heritage rather than the quality of their games.

But I digress I don't choose games based on what is popular or sells best. I choose games based on what interests me. And if one day there would be a linux exclusive that I'm interested in I'd not hesitate to install linux to try it out.
 
heatlesssun said:
No sure why some of you are making this so difficult. Wine is a translation layer that emits native Linux code. It's easier to translate cross platform calls between OSes.
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NO man get it through your head. That is NOT what wine is. lol

Its not translating ANYTHING there is no conversion going on if that is what you think. Its no more a translation layer then Java for windows is.
 
heatlesssun said:
Just like Linux PC gaming. Welcome to the club.
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J9pC5g9m.jpg
 
Mazzspeed said:
In what way does the OS used have anything to do with your classification as a gamer? And how does preferring Linux and gaming under your preferred operating system make you an activist?
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Simple, the overwhelming majority of PC games are only Windows compatible and only Linux experts use Linux for PC gaming. The amount of effort is takes to get anything but a small library of Windows games working under Linux can take forever.
 
Mazzspeed said:
In what way does the OS used have anything to do with your classification as a gamer? And how does preferring Linux and gaming under your preferred operating system make you an activist?

If someone plays games on PS4 but also plays games on their PC when they feel the need, are they Sony 'activists'. :ROFLMAO:
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Yeah keep laughing at the fact that you completely misconstrued the point.

I'd call someone a sony activist if they gamed only on PS4. But that's still less of an activist than a linux 'gamer'. Because that can still be an economic choice. Eg. a console is actually an investment. And they might not have other equipment to game on.
 
When a console title is ported to Windows, is it 'Windows native'?
heatlesssun said:
Simple, the overwhelming majority of PC games are only Windows compatible and only Linux experts use Linux for PC gaming. The amount of effort is takes to get anything but a small library of Windows games working under Linux can take forever.
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What?

Game is on steam and works with Proton > Download game in steam identically to Windows > Run game via Steam identically to Windows > Play game. What's so hard about that?
 
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M76 said:
Yes, nintendo is the king of casual gaming. Why are you telling me this then?
Nintendo's name somehow got fused with videogames, especially in the US. So for the soccer mom that is the only thing considered. No wonder they do so well. I think that is a testament to their marketing and heritage rather than the quality of their games.

But I digress I don't choose games based on what is popular or sells best. I choose games based on what interests me. And if one day there would be a linux exclusive that I'm interested in I'd not hesitate to install linux to try it out.
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I don't agree that Nintendo games only sell because casuals know Nintendo.

I mean let me restate that... In July Nintendo launched a 16 bit textured RPG which honestly looks like an updated Square SNES RPG. It sold over a million copies in less then a month. Those are not soccer moms, those are not people buying the new Mario for there kids. Those are GAMERS who LOVE that Nintendo is giving them what they want. An actual fantastic unique yet retro game that is appealing to people who where not even alive in the 16 bit console hay day.

My point and I am completely serious. BOTW and Octopath are both better then ANYTHING on PC right now >.< Which is why both have outsold anything on PC. Honestly watching some of the octopath reviews alone have given me more entertainment then any PC game released in the last year. So many geeky gamers getting all teary eyed over a 16 bit RPG is pure joy. lol :)
 
M76 said:
Yeah keep laughing at the fact that you completely misconstrued the point.

I'd call someone a sony activist if they gamed only on PS4. But that's still less of an activist than a linux 'gamer'. Because that can still be an economic choice. Eg. a console is actually an investment. And they might not have other equipment to game on.
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So you must be a Windows activist because you prefer Windows? :rolleyes:
 
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