NVIDIA’s Big Format Gaming Displays Will Cost between 4,000 and 5,000 EUR

I may be interested in the samsung QLEDs in 2019 due to OLED burn in concerns in the back of my mind. The samsung "QLEDs" and the LG OLEDs are very good 4k HDR monitors already. They just need hdmi 2.1 bandwidth , VRR and QFT. The nvidia BFG's 384 zone fald sounds like it would be good but not at that kind of price. The samsung 2018 model is $1800 in the same year it was released.

The 27" FALDS are the best monitors out right now but that is only because hdmi 2.1 wasn't ready for 2018. If you want size, get a LG 4k HDR OLED with hdmi 2.1 120hz native 4k with VRR + QFT in 2019 , or a Samsung "QLED" 4k HDR VA LCD with 120hz native 4k, VRR, QFT.. The smallest they go is 55" but if you have the room to rearrange your desk to be further from the monitor I see no problem there. In fact, it would allow me to run 21:9 or 21:10 or even smaller 16:9/:10 resolution(s) 1:1 for higher frame rates while still having a very large viewport/monitor.

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LG 4k HDR OLED with hdmi 2.1 120hz native 4k with VRR + QFT in 2019


LG 2018 C8 60Hz Rtings review

OLED per pixel emissive avoids FALD halos/glow and any screen uniformity issues, and it has INFINITE:1 contrast ratio which is amazing but there is still the chance of burn in over time.

  • Real scene HDR Brightness is very good, but still short of the 1000-4000 cd/m² HDR is mastered for. Large bright scenes are very dim due to the Automatic Brightness Limiter(ABL).
  • Black Level.. Infinite:1
  • The OLED55C8PUA has perfect black uniformity, with no clouding due to its ability to turn off black pixels.
  • Excellent color and white balance dE after calibration, better than the C7 and Samsung's Q9F. While the calibration out of the box was already very good, after calibration the colors were nearly perfect. Gamma follows our target almost perfectly.
  • The C8 has decent coverage of the P3 color space, but is unable to produce overly bright, saturated colors.
  • C8 displays our test gradient smoothly with no significant banding. In certain scenes there is some banding noticeable in large areas of similar color. This can be reduced by enabling 'MPEG Noise Reduction', which toggles the gradient smoothing feature of the C8. This reduces the visible banding but also results in a loss of fine detail.
  • OLED TVs such as the LG OLED C8 have an inherent risk of experience permanent image retention.
  • C8 handles motion extremely well. The near instantaneous response time is excellent for watching sports or playing video games, as there is no ghosting or trailing during fast motion. Also, there is no visible flicker since there is no traditional backlight on OLED TVs, unlike Samsung's QLED technology. One downside to OLED technology is that there is some stutter when playing low frame rate content, especially when watching movies or TV Shows.
  • Like all OLED TVs, there is no visible backlight flicker which helps motion appear smoother, but it does result in some persistence blur.
  • 4k @ 60Hz + HDR : 29.4 ms
  • 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 : 21.1 ms
  • 1080p @ 120Hz : 21.9 ms
  • Great choice for PC use. Image remains accurate when viewed at an angle so the sides of the screen are uniform. Supports chroma 4:4:4 for clear text across all backgrounds
  • the brightness of the screen changes depending on the content and areas of static content may have a risk of burn-in (see here)

An alternative to burn in concerns would be whatever the samsung Q8F series equivalent will be in 2019. They are HDR 1000 FALD VA tvs.
The high end samsung "QLED"s already support VRR/free-sync on amd gpus and xbox one in their 2018 model, they just can't do 4k 120hz native input yet since there is no hdmi 2.1 circuitry in 2018 tvs.

Samsung Q8F (rtings review)
  • Excellent wide color gamut
  • Feels responsive due to low input lag
  • Great motion handling
  • the viewing angles are poor so the sides of the screen lose accuracy when viewed from up-close.
  • "Excellent contrast ratio on the Samsung Q8F. It features a full array local dimming feature and is able to get very deep blacks. 7957:1 "
  • "Very good brightness with HDR content. Small highlights are hitting the target 1000 cd/m² that HDR is mastered for. The screen brightness dips considerably with very bright scenes, but is still good for a bright room. Similar brightness to the LG C8, but with brighter highlights in very dark scenes, as shown by the small window tests."
  • "Excellent wide color gamut. The Q8FN can display nearly 100% of the P3 color space, and has the highest Rec.2020 coverage we have ever seen, although it is very close to the 2017 Q9F"
  • Update 06/08/2018: FreeSync has been tested and the score has been updated. FreeSync was supported from our Xbox One S and our Radeon RX 580 GPU, in 1080p, 1440p and 4k resolutions. FreeSync is activated by enabling the TV's Game mode and FreeSync settings
  • Excellent low input lag on the Samsung Q8FN QLED TV. Input lag is exceptionally low with 120 Hz content, similar to the NU8000, and better than the LG C8. It can display most resolutions without any issues, but chroma 4:4:4 is not supported in PC Mode with a 1440p@120Hz signal (Likely a bandwidth limitation that will be overcome with hdmi 2.1 models in 1440p and 4k 120hz)
  • 4k with Variable Refresh Rate : 15.4 ms
  • 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + 8 bit HDR : 16.7 ms
  • 1080p with Variable Refresh Rate : 6.5 ms
  • 1440p @ 120 Hz: 10.0 ms
  • can also interpolate games while keeping a low input lag, which is great for smooth play. 4k interpolated: 20.8ms
  • Great choice for a PC monitor. Picture quality is good. The TV supports chroma 4:4:4 for clear text across all backgrounds, and it has low input lag so the TV feels very responsive. It also has a low response time
Click to expand...

A few of the most relevant quotes I found in the discussions, rather than just re-writing in my own words:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test/discussions

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https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussio...-was-wondering-how-burn-in-works-with-oled-so

Burn-in on OLED screens is caused by the diodes emitting less light as they age. In theory any color except for true black can cause burn-in on an OLED screen, but we don't quite know the long term causes yet. In theory the brighter your screen is, the faster the pixels will age and you will see long term effects. Initial symptoms will be some areas of the screen appearing dimmer than the rest of the screen. Older screens also tended to show a slight red-green shift in colors since the blue diodes aged faster, but newer pixel structures have helped to alleviate that. There are some tools that claim to reverse burn-in; all they do is age the rest of the screen to the same levels as the burnt-in part.
Click to expand...

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussio...nt-red-uniformity-issues-for-the-fifa-and-ncb

Hi and thanks for contacting us and pointing this out. These uniformity issues are visible in person, and the brighter areas resemble the Live CNN TV around week 6 (see here). We expect that this is overcompensation (a result of the algorithm).
Click to expand...

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussio...tnite-on-the-attached-xbox-one-s-2-hours-at-a

As long as more varied content is displayed during the rest of the week, you should not see permanent burn-in. There might be temporary image retention around the HUD (Heads-Up Display) elements after a 2-hour play session, but they usually go away after displaying more varied content. Running the fix program in the TV menu can help remove temporary image retention. It is important to note that permanent burn-in is caused by the pixels emitting less light as they age. Therefore, we expect the effect to be cumulative, so the total time during the life of the TV that the same pixels are illuminated has more importance than the length of the playing session. A good way to reduce the risk of burn-in is to display varied content as the pixels will wear more evenly across the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
so a Big Format Gaming Display is just Nvidia's term for a regular large size OLED/LED TV?
 
Spending that kind of money on something that's going to depreciate in value the moment you open the box. Hell no.
 
The BFG has a dense 384 zone direct LED dynamic FALD backlight which is pretty high. I'm not sure what the samsung S8 QLED's FALD density is. Also, the BFG has G-SYNC! :b

edit: the Q9 has 480zones.. the Q8 has 40 zones

UgTKtbZ.png
+ TAX !!
 
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This is so far into the realm of diminishing returns it is absurd. I mean I get this is a hardware enthusiast site and we don't generally mock the absolute top end, but this? This is starting to feel closer to a $1000 HDMI cable.
 
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polonyc2 said:
so a Big Format Gaming Display is just Nvidia's term for a regular large size OLED/LED TV?
Click to expand...
It's not a TV.
elvn said:
The BFG has a dense 384 zone direct LED dynamic FALD backlight which is pretty high. I'm not sure what the samsung S8 QLED's FALD density is. Also, the BFG has G-SYNC! :b

View attachment 101745 + TAX !!
Click to expand...
I don't know about an S8 (next year's model?), but the Q9 has 480 zones according to Rtings. The Q8 has just 40 zones.
 
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Need 2019 version with hdmi 2.1 for 4k 120hz. What sucks is nvidia only working with g-sync.

Color? Low input lag? Variable frame rate? FALD + HDR 1000?

What are you paying $5000 for in the BFG? 5000 - 1800 = $3200 more for perhaps a more dense FALD array and G-SYNC when you could already have freesync/HDMI 2.1 VRR if nvidia would support it.

Granted that is for the 55" samsung +$3200 more for BFG
The 65" S8 is $2500.. so even then, and only comparing since nvidia doesn't offer a 55" version... , paying +$2500 ??.
The Q9 65" is $3300 .. = +$1700 for the BFG which apparently has similar # of zones and G-sync instead of free-sync/VRR of the samsung

Also for comparison for those willing to risk burn in, the 2018 55" LG C8 OLED is $2200 already and the 65" is $3000 so 2019 OLEDs shouldn't be much out of that range hopefully. Still thousands less than the BFG.

edit: there are two Q9F's .. 2017 and 2018 .. prices differ. $3300 is the 2018 model, The 2017 model has been down to $2500 on newegg.
The 2018 Samsung Q9FN is much better than the 2017 Samsung Q9F. The Q9FN has significantly improved dark room performance, thanks to the much better local dimming feature and much better black uniformity. The Q9FN is brighter with all types of content and has new features geared for gamers, including a variable refresh rate and auto game mode when used with a supported console or PC.
Click to expand...
The Samsung Q9FN is slightly better than the Samsung Q8FN. The Q9FN has better dark room performance thanks to the better local dimming feature and better black uniformity. Overall performance is very similar between the two.
Contrast with local dimming Q8FN 7957 : 1 Q9FN.. 19018 : 1
Click to expand...

Samsung Q8F (rtings review)
  • Excellent wide color gamut
  • Feels responsive due to low input lag
  • Great motion handling
  • the viewing angles are poor so the sides of the screen lose accuracy when viewed from up-close.
  • "Excellent contrast ratio on the Samsung Q8F. It features a full array local dimming feature and is able to get very deep blacks. 7957:1 "
  • "Very good brightness with HDR content. Small highlights are hitting the target 1000 cd/m² that HDR is mastered for. The screen brightness dips considerably with very bright scenes, but is still good for a bright room. Similar brightness to the LG C8, but with brighter highlights in very dark scenes, as shown by the small window tests."
  • "Excellent wide color gamut. The Q8FN can display nearly 100% of the P3 color space, and has the highest Rec.2020 coverage we have ever seen, although it is very close to the 2017 Q9F"
  • Update 06/08/2018: FreeSync has been tested and the score has been updated. FreeSync was supported from our Xbox One S and our Radeon RX 580 GPU, in 1080p, 1440p and 4k resolutions. FreeSync is activated by enabling the TV's Game mode and FreeSync settings
  • Excellent low input lag on the Samsung Q8FN QLED TV. Input lag is exceptionally low with 120 Hz content, similar to the NU8000, and better than the LG C8. It can display most resolutions without any issues, but chroma 4:4:4 is not supported in PC Mode with a 1440p@120Hz signal (Likely a bandwidth limitation that will be overcome with hdmi 2.1 models in 1440p and 4k 120hz)
  • 4k with Variable Refresh Rate : 15.4 ms
  • 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + 8 bit HDR : 16.7 ms
  • 1080p with Variable Refresh Rate : 6.5 ms
  • 1440p @ 120 Hz: 10.0 ms
  • can also interpolate games while keeping a low input lag, which is great for smooth play. 4k interpolated: 20.8ms
  • Great choice for a PC monitor. Picture quality is good. The TV supports chroma 4:4:4 for clear text across all backgrounds, and it has low input lag so the TV feels very responsive. It also has a low response time
 
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edited post to include the 480 zones.. thanks

Native Contrast : 6055 : 1
Contrast with local dimming : 19018 : 1


Excellent native contrast ratio, and the local dimming feature helps to create even deeper dark scenes
Click to expand...
 
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elvn said:
Need 2019 version with hdmi 2.1 for 4k 120hz. What sucks is nvidia only working with g-sync.

Color? Low input lag? Variable frame rate? FALD + HDR 1000?

What are you paying $5000 for in the BFG? 5000 - 1800 = $3200 more for perhaps a more dense FALD array and G-SYNC when you could already have freesync/HDMI 2.1 VRR if nvidia would support it.

Granted that is for the 55" samsung +$3200 more for BFG
The 65" S8 is $2500.. so even then, and only comparing since nvidia doesn't offer a 55" version... , paying +$2500 ??.
The Q9 65" is $3300 .. = +$1700 for the BFG which apparently has similar # of zones and G-sync instead of free-sync/VRR of the samsung

Also for comparison for those willing to risk burn in, the 2018 55" LG C8 OLED is $2200 already and the 65" is $3000 so 2019 OLEDs shouldn't be much out of that range hopefully. Still thousands less than the BFG.

edit: there are two Q9F's .. 2017 and 2018 .. prices differ. $3300 is the 2018 model, The 2017 model has been down to $2500 on newegg.

Samsung Q8F (rtings review)
  • Excellent wide color gamut
  • Feels responsive due to low input lag
  • Great motion handling
  • the viewing angles are poor so the sides of the screen lose accuracy when viewed from up-close.
  • "Excellent contrast ratio on the Samsung Q8F. It features a full array local dimming feature and is able to get very deep blacks. 7957:1 "
  • "Very good brightness with HDR content. Small highlights are hitting the target 1000 cd/m² that HDR is mastered for. The screen brightness dips considerably with very bright scenes, but is still good for a bright room. Similar brightness to the LG C8, but with brighter highlights in very dark scenes, as shown by the small window tests."
  • "Excellent wide color gamut. The Q8FN can display nearly 100% of the P3 color space, and has the highest Rec.2020 coverage we have ever seen, although it is very close to the 2017 Q9F"
  • Update 06/08/2018: FreeSync has been tested and the score has been updated. FreeSync was supported from our Xbox One S and our Radeon RX 580 GPU, in 1080p, 1440p and 4k resolutions. FreeSync is activated by enabling the TV's Game mode and FreeSync settings
  • Excellent low input lag on the Samsung Q8FN QLED TV. Input lag is exceptionally low with 120 Hz content, similar to the NU8000, and better than the LG C8. It can display most resolutions without any issues, but chroma 4:4:4 is not supported in PC Mode with a 1440p@120Hz signal (Likely a bandwidth limitation that will be overcome with hdmi 2.1 models in 1440p and 4k 120hz)
  • 4k with Variable Refresh Rate : 15.4 ms
  • 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + 8 bit HDR : 16.7 ms
  • 1080p with Variable Refresh Rate : 6.5 ms
  • 1440p @ 120 Hz: 10.0 ms
  • can also interpolate games while keeping a low input lag, which is great for smooth play. 4k interpolated: 20.8ms
  • Great choice for a PC monitor. Picture quality is good. The TV supports chroma 4:4:4 for clear text across all backgrounds, and it has low input lag so the TV feels very responsive. It also has a low response time
Click to expand...


It's too bad all of these are so damned big. I want to sit at arms length away from one, using it as a desktop monitor, and as such I want a 43" version.

I'd totally do the AMD framebuffer passthrough hack to get FreeSync to work.
 
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