24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

[jbltecnicspro]

We are talking about these panels here
Missed the point...

The point I'm making is, can we not talk about this without resorting to insults? You have valid points but this is all subjective discussion, so could you keep it civil? Not trying to mini-mod but when you say shit like discussing image quality with so-and-so is pointless because they prefer the deeper blacks of VA, you don't contribute anything. In the end, it's all monitors man.

 

[Meeho]

We are talking about these panels here
View attachment 93187

Source picture
View attachment 93188

On every IPS panel I displayed this image it looks how it was intended
IPS glow looks like there was some light in front monitor and it was just a reflection.

This is IPS:

While somewhat less extreme normaly, it's so bad that I gladly returned my 144 Hz IPS for a 60 Hz VA. I really tried using it and forcing myself to tolerate it because of the 144 Hz benefits, but I just couldn't stand it. Not in Windows, not in movies and especially not in games. I've only found it tolerable up to 24". As soon as I went with bigger monitors, it was too much.

 

[XoR_]

Good IPS panels do not look anything like this and have no IPS glow and have uniformity correction
https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-monitor-eizo-cx240/4/
https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-monitor-hp-lp2480zx/4/#Helligkeitsverteilung
https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-monitor-lg-flatron-w2420r/4/#Blickwinkel

Even monitors without A-TW polarizer which are aimed at professional markets have less IPS glow than something like A-HVA you find on typical gaming IPS
And even with typical sRGB A-HVA gaming monitor you are able to do better color critical work than on any VA display or CRT
Bigger IPS display will have more IPS glow but for the same set of reasons bigger VA display will have more gamma shift...
BTW. why not replace 144HZ IPS for 144Hz VA?

 

[Meeho]

Good IPS panels do not look anything like this and have no IPS glow and have uniformity correction
https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-monitor-eizo-cx240/4/
https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-monitor-hp-lp2480zx/4/#Helligkeitsverteilung
https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-monitor-lg-flatron-w2420r/4/#Blickwinkel

Even monitors without A-TW polarizer which are aimed at professional markets have less IPS glow than something like A-HVA you find on typical gaming IPS
And even with typical sRGB A-HVA gaming monitor you are able to do better color critical work than on any VA display or CRT
Bigger IPS display will have more IPS glow but for the same set of reasons bigger VA display will have more gamma shift...
BTW. why not replace 144HZ IPS for 144Hz VA?

You'll notice those are all 24" screens, the upper limit for IPS in my experience.

144 Hz VA either wasn't available or was double the price at the time.

 

[XoR_]

You'll notice those are all 24" screens, the upper limit for IPS in my experience.

144 Hz VA either wasn't available or was double the price at the time.

Actually IPS with A-TW could be even as large as 42" and you could sit very close to it and wouldn't notice any serious off-angle artifacts.

Though maybe it is already too much to ask for... and I should not even bother asking for panels with three polarizers and two LCD layers and million to one contrast ratio...

 

[cdoublejj]

as mentioned above my IPS, https://hardforum.com/threads/24-wi...ived-comments.952788/page-399#post-1043754943

HOWEVER Linus Tech tips reviewed a surface book/tablet a few years ago and the IPS in that had some of the most amazing blacks they've ever seen for an IPS/LCD.

 

[XoR_]

there were few IPS panels spotted in the wild which have something that eliminate IPS glow
at least one model of Apple laptop had this and I even saw it with my own eyes. Indeed it did not have any IPS glow but viewing angles were inferior to real A-TW, even one found in NEC 2090UXi which already is worse than LG W2420R and HP LP2480zx have. On this Apple from angle white level was reduced as much as in any other IPS and darker shades somewhat blended into black. I guess it is rather some different filter than true A-TW. Still superior to normal IPS

some people who imported Qnix (do not remember model but it was probably QX2710 LED) from Korea reported their panels also didn't have IPS glow while most had it. One person even got one with glow and one without... These also overclocked to ~100Hz and were and pretty cheap (like cheap cheap) which made them very good option even though they lack any overdrive.

 

[Meeho]

Is it known why there aren't newer and larger screens with A-TW?

 

[XoR_]

Is it known why there aren't newer and larger screens with A-TW?

Same reason hundred of thousandths people died in car accidents which could be avoided if cars were made with better materials: cost savings

 

[Meeho]

Same reason hundred of thousandths people died in car accidents which could be avoided if cars were made with better materials: cost savings

They're putting out $2000 monitors with loud fans at the same time.

 

[XoR_]

They're putting out $2000 monitors with loud fans at the same time.

fans are there for real PC enthusiasts so they can happily replace them with water cooling

 

[NamelessPFG]

fans are there for real PC enthusiasts so they can happily replace them with water cooling

Except your typical water-cooling radiator still needs fans to be effective anyway, especially the really dense ones like my HW Labs Black Ice GTX 360. That thing gets distressingly hot to the touch without even a little airflow going through it.

Monitors with fans, though? WTF? Not even CRT and plasma displays needed those, and those output far more heat than LCDs do!

 

[Strat_84]

Some information that may be helpful for other people: you might remember I had an issue with a flat cable with broken tracks. I finally found a replacement. It's not uncommon but pretty hard to stumble upon without the proper informations/key words. It's an FFC cable with a 1.25mm pitch. Molex manufactures some that have characteristics similar to the original. It sustains higher temperatures (105°C instead of 80°C) and may also be mechanically more resistant as it seems to be a bit thicker.

https://www.molex.com/molex/product...tle=Introduction&parentKey=ffc_fpc_connectors

Not all sizes are available in every shop. I needed one with 25 tracks, I could only buy one with 26 tracks.



Cut it to the proper width. That leaves the 26th copper track cut in half. Just unstick it from the plastic basis of the connector with a cutter, pull so that the entire bare part of the track is unstuck from the connector, then cut. Repeat for the 2nd connector. Et voila.

 

[Deleted member 88301]

This doesn't have much relevance, other than you guys were talking about old stuff and fans:

Remember, The Lord of Apple decided that even a single fan in an Apple III would be aesthetically displeasing. If the comparable BS were to happen today, Apple fanatics would just get more powerful ACs for there Apple Huts.

 

[CommandoSnake]

Has anyone tried adding a new AG film? Just got a FW900, and my AG coating is damaged, so I'm thinking of taking it off and replacing it with this: https://www.radtech.com/products/clearcal-custom-size-antiglare-clear-films

 

[spacediver]

Some information that may be helpful for other people: you might remember I had an issue with a flat cable with broken tracks. I finally found a replacement. It's not uncommon but pretty hard to stumble upon without the proper informations/key words. It's an FFC cable with a 1.25mm pitch. Molex manufactures some that have characteristics similar to the original. It sustains higher temperatures (105°C instead of 80°C) and may also be mechanically more resistant as it seems to be a bit thicker.

https://www.molex.com/molex/product...tle=Introduction&parentKey=ffc_fpc_connectors

Not all sizes are available in every shop. I needed one with 25 tracks, I could only buy one with 26 tracks.

View attachment 94798

Cut it to the proper width. That leaves the 26th copper track cut in half. Just unstick it from the plastic basis of the connector with a cutter, pull so that the entire bare part of the track is unstuck from the connector, then cut. Repeat for the 2nd connector. Et voila.


View attachment 94800

Thanks for sharing this. I forget the original post where you discussed this, but when you say flat cable, what connection are you talking about?

 

[popalazarou]

 

[popalazarou]

just got my nice new fw900 from ebay 225 quid. Its better than the first one i had some time back, I was using a w900 for a while till this popped up. im using a BNC cable as well, i think it looks slightly better with it

 

[Enhanced Interrogator]

just got my nice new fw900 from ebay 225 quid. Its better than the first one i had some time back, I was using a w900 for a while till this popped up. im using a BNC cable as well, i think it looks slightly better with it

I'm curious about the person you bought it from. Were they still using it for games? Editing? Just sitting in storage from years ago?

 

[popalazarou]

I'm curious about the person you bought it from. Were they still using it for games? Editing? Just sitting in storage from years ago?

good point. I think the fella i got it from had repaired it and was selling to make money. He was an electronics preofessional. He had it linked to a laptop so i could see it working. He didnt have a desktop and wasnt a gamer. Im happy i got it though thats for sure

 

[popalazarou]

some screenies to show image , taken with ip6plus

 

[3dfan]

Has anyone tried adding a new AG film? Just got a FW900, and my AG coating is damaged, so I'm thinking of taking it off and replacing it with this: https://www.radtech.com/products/clearcal-custom-size-antiglare-clear-films

hi, myFW900 has an added car polarized film, this one on the left, the original on the right.

in my opinion, my advice about adding things like this is only worth to do if you really have a badly damaged, scratched original one that bothers the user and want to preserver blacks on not so dark and moderated indoor natural lighted enviroments. other wise better not to do it,


i do not believe the one posted in your link can be convenient, since it seems to be an antireflective matte film for LCD screens, but from my personal testing, those type of films on a CRT screen such the FW900s makes the image very blurry, unusuable,
also that film does not seem to have any dimming value to preserver blacks on mentioned conditions.

i am satisfied with the car polarized i use, it is a bit darker than the original, (was imposible to find a film as dimm as the original) so it may cut a bit more peak luminance from the screen than the original, but is nothing dramatic, and the monitor has good notable luminance and black levels being used under a natural moderated light enviroment., and definitelly much better than having the screen without any films for me since blacks become gray and were only perceptible on a dark enviroment which i dont like, however it does little to eliminate reflections and static issues, but there seems to be imposible to find a film with exact features like the original.

i would say that if you dont care about using the monitor on a dark room, or dont care about blacks, and definitely bothers how damaged is the original, leaving te screen without any film can be convenient.

for more info about adding films to the FW900 screen and the results of it, there are some more discutions about that topic, search more posts from users like Strat_84, he has done interesting findings and testing about this as well.

 

[XoR_]

Compared to some other Trinitrons I used and use original film I had on FW900 is much worse and reminded me of older Trinitrons which never looked quite right. Diamondtrons for example in general have even better films on them.
Why would anyone want to replicate original FW900 film specs and especially its completely inadequate transmittance?

Dell P1110 screen look black with lights on

Room lighting management issues are pretty much not existent on this monitor.

Why not aim at this level of transmittance instead?
Because SONY put low transmittance film it doesn't mean we should do the same errors for the sake of... sake of what? What is the point here?

If anything we should aim at finding supply of coatings used on Panasonic VT plasmas which have perfect light characteristics for this purpose and are superior to any coating used on any CRT ever

 

[Meeho]

Compared to some other Trinitrons I used and use original film I had on FW900 is much worse and reminded me of older Trinitrons which never looked quite right. Diamondtrons for example in general have even better films on them.
Why would anyone want to replicate original FW900 film specs and especially its completely inadequate transmittance?

Dell P1110 screen look black with lights on
View attachment 95762
Room lighting management issues are pretty much not existent on this monitor.

Why not aim at this level of transmittance instead?
Because SONY put low transmittance film it doesn't mean we should do the same errors for the sake of... sake of what? What is the point here?

If anything we should aim at finding supply of coatings used on Panasonic VT plasmas which have perfect light characteristics for this purpose and are superior to any coating used on any CRT ever

Maybe FW900's Trinitron isn't as resistant on its own. I doubt it was an accidental choice to use what they've used.

 

[CommandoSnake]

hi, myFW900 has an added car polarized film, this one on the left, the original on the right.

in my opinion, my advice about adding things like this is only worth to do if you really have a badly damaged, scratched original one that bothers the user and want to preserver blacks on not so dark and moderated indoor natural lighted enviroments. other wise better not to do it,


i do not believe the one posted in your link can be convenient, since it seems to be an antireflective matte film for LCD screens, but from my personal testing, those type of films on a CRT screen such the FW900s makes the image very blurry, unusuable,
also that film does not seem to have any dimming value to preserver blacks on mentioned conditions.

i am satisfied with the car polarized i use, it is a bit darker than the original, (was imposible to find a film as dimm as the original) so it may cut a bit more peak luminance from the screen than the original, but is nothing dramatic, and the monitor has good notable luminance and black levels being used under a natural moderated light enviroment., and definitelly much better than having the screen without any films for me since blacks become gray and were only perceptible on a dark enviroment which i dont like, however it does little to eliminate reflections and static issues, but there seems to be imposible to find a film with exact features like the original.

i would say that if you dont care about using the monitor on a dark room, or dont care about blacks, and definitely bothers how damaged is the original, leaving te screen without any film can be convenient.

for more info about adding films to the FW900 screen and the results of it, there are some more discutions about that topic, search more posts from users like Strat_84, he has done interesting findings and testing about this as well.

Which car polarizer film did you get? and how much was it?

 

[XoR_]

Maybe FW900's Trinitron isn't as resistant on its own. I doubt it was an accidental choice to use what they've used.

If it was not simply economical decision to use coating from W900 which is the same as any other large Trinitron from its time used then it might be because FW900 being larger is less bright because electrons from the same exact emitters are spread over larger area and they wanted to hit some peak luminance target.

Also remember that while for us this monitor is multimedia wet dreams dreams come true it was not targeted at this market at all.
Lighter coating means sharper text because beams in CRTs tend to be more focused at lower emission. Also deep blacks were not a priority as it would be expected for multimedia oriented display.

All this being said we can improve this part of the specs by ourselves. There is zero need to optimize for text sharpness on gaming and multimedia oriented display or hit excessively high peak luminance because we use them in darkened rooms, not some brightly lit offices.

 

[3dfan]

Which car polarizer film did you get? and how much was it?

in bogota, colombia, south america, i got this from a car repairing shop, which there are a lot in my city, it was cheap, about 14 mil pesos COP (colombian peso), which is about 5 USD, it came in a sheet like the bigger one in the in the photo posted above which i had to cut to fit the screen size, also i had to pay an experienced car polarizer installer person to install it since its very hard (at least for me) with minimal remaining bubbles.

EDIT: i forgot to mention that i payed the person 30 mil COP in total (about USD 10) to install the film.

 

[Strat_84]

Thanks for sharing this. I forget the original post where you discussed this, but when you say flat cable, what connection are you talking about?

I'm talking about the cables on the pictures posted. There are two of them linking the D board and the N board, and a couple of others between the A/N/S boards with less tracks. The bare copper tracks on both ends just plug into a beige plastic connector.

 

[Meeho]

in bogota, colombia, south america, i got this from a car repairing shop, which there are a lot in my city, it was cheap, about 14 mil pesos COP (colombian peso), which is about 5 USD

Wouldn't that be $5000?

 

[3dfan]

today, 1 US dollar = 2944 COP (colombian peso)
14 mil COP means 14000 COP
14000 / 2944 = 4.7......about 5 US dollars

 

[Meeho]

14,000,000 is what many spell as 14 mil. It gets confusing with both Spanish and English in the mix

 

[3dfan]

in colombia or other spanish speaking languages:
mil = 1000 (as US or other countrie people refer to "K", example, 1k = 1000)
mill or "millón" in spanish) = 1.000.000 (notice the diference, it has twice "ll"

 

[CommandoSnake]

Hi guys,

So I bought this adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KLKQN9U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, and I have to say that it works fairly well on my FW900. There are some bugs with the nvidia control panel in selecting certain resolutions, but it's able to match my direct VGA output from my gtx 660M. I am able to hit 1900 by 1200 @ 95 hz refresh rate through the adapter, which is the same max bandwidth direct VGA is able to reach. What's even more interesting is that I measured the input latency between both of my FW900s, one using this adapter, and the other using direct VGA out, and the input latency is pretty much the same between the two, surprisingly. I can post a ultra slowmo video if anyone is interested.

Since my 1080 Ti only has one HDMI out, does anyone recommend a DisplayPort to VGA active adapter with 0 input latency and high res support (that matches this HDMI to vga adapter)? Random question regarding Windas, does anyone know if I can adjust the geometry (horizontal pin cushion) so that I can make it look as square as possible? As well as the horizontal convergence more than the OSD supports?

 

[DooLocsta]

Hi guys,

So I bought this adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KLKQN9U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, and I have to say that it works fairly well on my FW900. There are some bugs with the nvidia control panel in selecting certain resolutions, but it's able to match my direct VGA output from my gtx 660M. I am able to hit 1900 by 1200 @ 95 hz refresh rate through the adapter, which is the same max bandwidth direct VGA is able to reach. What's even more interesting is that I measured the input latency between both of my FW900s, one using this adapter, and the other using direct VGA out, and the input latency is pretty much the same between the two, surprisingly. I can post a ultra slowmo video if anyone is interested.

Since my 1080 Ti only has one HDMI out, does anyone recommend a DisplayPort to VGA active adapter with 0 input latency and high res support (that matches this HDMI to vga adapter)? Random question regarding Windas, does anyone know if I can adjust the geometry (horizontal pin cushion) so that I can make it look as square as possible? As well as the horizontal convergence more than the OSD supports?

This adapter is incredibly cheap, I will order and test as well.

 

[spacediver]

I'm talking about the cables on the pictures posted. There are two of them linking the D board and the N board, and a couple of others between the A/N/S boards with less tracks. The bare copper tracks on both ends just plug into a beige plastic connector.

Nice, handy information to know!

 

[3dfan]

Hi guys,

So I bought this adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KLKQN9U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, and I have to say that it works fairly well on my FW900. There are some bugs with the nvidia control panel in selecting certain resolutions, but it's able to match my direct VGA output from my gtx 660M. I am able to hit 1900 by 1200 @ 95 hz refresh rate through the adapter, which is the same max bandwidth direct VGA is able to reach. What's even more interesting is that I measured the input latency between both of my FW900s, one using this adapter, and the other using direct VGA out, and the input latency is pretty much the same between the two, surprisingly. I can post a ultra slowmo video if anyone is interested.

Since my 1080 Ti only has one HDMI out, does anyone recommend a DisplayPort to VGA active adapter with 0 input latency and high res support (that matches this HDMI to vga adapter)? Random question regarding Windas, does anyone know if I can adjust the geometry (horizontal pin cushion) so that I can make it look as square as possible? As well as the horizontal convergence more than the OSD supports?

can you please test at 1920 x 1200 90hz and report your results?
it would be interesting to see your slow motion vid.

 

[CommandoSnake]

can you please test at 1920 x 1200 90hz and report your results?
it would be interesting to see your slow motion vid.

I did, it's in my wall of text that you apparently missed .

Unless if you're insinuating 90 hz is different from the 95 hz that I tested? Regardless, both work fine and input latency is the exact same as VGA direct out. I'm able to hit resolutons even higher than 1200p, actually. I'll see if I can post a video.

 

[CommandoSnake]

Okay guys, moment of truth:

First image - my FW900 with adapter running at 1920 x 1200 @ 95 hz.


Second image - both my FW900s (one VGA out and the other with adapter) running at 1900 x 1200 @ 85 hz (Windows would only let me duplicate at this refresh rate).

Video - Taken after second image, running stopwatch test at slow-mo to show 0 input latency between the two monitors. Compared to my laptop's LCD, both displays are approximately 15 - 30 ms faster. I'm too lazy to upload the slowmo videos comparing each FW900 with the laptops LCD, so you're going to have to take my word for it.


It's attached, and link is also here: https://imgur.com/P4HvfcR

Edit - maybe next week I can provide an input lag comparison between my FW900 and my PG287Q @ 165 hz. I'd have to downclock both to the lowest common denominator for refresh rate and resolution though.

 

[cdoublejj]

looks like the one on the left was just a wee bit a head on a few frames but, otherwise fairly even?

EDIT: also what/which adapter?

 

[CommandoSnake]

looks like the one on the left was just a wee bit a head on a few frames but, otherwise fairly even?

EDIT: also what/which adapter?

Added link in original post, but it is this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KLKQN9U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

The one on the left is the VGA out, but the difference is practically null, and the reason you could consider it being a "wee bit a head" is because of how the routing is set from the graphics card, well within margin of error.