Long Range Nissan Leaf E-Plus Coming in 2019, Will Have 200 HP

Reimu said:
Frankly, I am in the same camp as you daily commute wise, but I made the complete opposite choice and went for an electric.
Vancouver BC's gas price hit an alltime North American high of USD $4.6/Gal, which made me think long and hard about hybrid or electric when it comes to what to buy.

I chose electric at the end, because I think I'd opt for rental for any kind of trip >300mi, so the car that I daily is strictly an intown A-B commuter.
I don't want to depend on one car to do it all at the end of the day.
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Different location, different choices.
Your gas prices are very high, while I'm guessing your electric prices are reasonable due to cheaper hydroelectric power.

Here in Southern California it's the opposite (even though we have some of the highest gas prices in the country).
Gas is currently $3.27/gallon (at the Costco I usually go to). Being summer, any additional electricity I use would be at the top tier rate of $.28/kwh.
It would cost me $2.64 to drive 30 miles in a Leaf, $2.45 to drive my Hybrid Camry 30 miles (@40 mpg), or $1.96 to drive a Prius 30 miles (@50 mpg).
 
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nightanole said:
You slightly missed my point. DINKS (dual income no kids) EACH making $65kl a year is the min needed to get the full benefit. Yes joint filers, with or without kids, making a total $65k is pretty bad.
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Household income of 130k with no deductions only pays 7500 in federal income tax? I think you've made a math error somewhere.
 
Lizard Testes said:
You have 10 kids or something?
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No, only a wife & one kid. (and only one income)

However, after all the money taken out for health insurance, state and local taxes, and saving for retirement, etc., my take home pay is significantly less than my gross.

Last year I paid less the $5,000 in federal taxes. With the tax cuts passed last year, it should be even less this year.
I came up with the $130,000 number based on how much I've paid so far this year, and that if I was making a lot more money I would be putting much of it away for retirement (which would reduce my taxable income)
 
Lizard Testes said:
Household income of 130k with no deductions only pays 7500 in federal income tax? I think you've made a math error somewhere.
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If they are making $130,000, they should have significant deductions, unless they are the type that spends every penny they make on vacations or eating out.

You have state taxes, property tax, mortgage interest, etc.

Even if they don't have a home, they could each max out their 401k''s. That would good for $18,500 each, or a total of $37,000 in deductions right off the top. If they are over 55, they can each add another $5,500 in catch up contributions, for a $48,000 deduction. They can even add another $5,500 ($6,500 for over 55) each for an IRA contribution.
So if they are over 55, they can actually write off almost half that $130,000 income by funding their retirement.
 
Lizard Testes said:
You have 10 kids or something?
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Honestly, it doesn't take much.

If my calculations are correct, if you're married filing jointly with two kids and taking the standard deduction, it would take a taxable income of $113,200 to have a net $7500 federal tax bill. Add in some pre-tax deductions and itemize your deductions (which most homeowners would do), and that gross income number shoots up significantly.
 
nutzo said:
If they are making $130,000, they should have significant deductions, unless they are the type that spends every penny they make on vacations or eating out.

You have state taxes, property tax, mortgage interest, etc.

Even if they don't have a home, they could each max out their 401k''s. That would good for $18,500 each, or a total of $37,000 in deductions right off the top. If they are over 55, they can each add another $5,500 in catch up contributions, for a $48,000 deduction. They can even add another $5,500 ($6,500 for over 55) each for an IRA contribution.
So if they are over 55, they can actually write off almost half that $130,000 income by funding their retirement.
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Obviously, but he stipulated no deductions.

And you can't deduct 5500 for an IRA if you're making that much and maxing out your 401ks.
 
No love for the Chevy Volt?

My co-worker keeps telling me how it is better than a Nissan Leaf since it has a mini-generator to recharge the battery when its battery reaches low capacity when you aren't able to hit up a recharging station.
 
Lizard Testes said:
Obviously, but he stipulated no deductions.

And you can't deduct 5500 for an IRA if you're making that much and maxing out your 401ks.
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I did stipulate that they did have to file jointly. You can do the math, Its about $65k per head in order to get $7500, each. If you are not filing jointly(or single) then yes only one head needs to make at least $65k.


Either way its pretty clear that in order to get the full benefit of the tax credit, you need to be "comfortable" in the central usa outside of all the "tech" cities. So the tax credit is not being used to get EV's into the hands of people who would otherwise be too poor to afford them vs the gasser.
 
DTN107 said:
No love for the Chevy Volt?

My co-worker keeps telling me how it is better than a Nissan Leaf since it has a mini-generator to recharge the battery when its battery reaches low capacity when you aren't able to hit up a recharging station.
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The Volt is a hybrid. I don't care if the gas engine is connected to the wheels or not. The Leaf is pure electric and seems like a Bolt competitor..
 
I now have a 2018 Civic Si Coupe, Energy Green Pearl. I do not want a leaf and will never want a leaf.
 
Lizard Testes said:
Obviously, but he stipulated no deductions.

And you can't deduct 5500 for an IRA if you're making that much and maxing out your 401ks.
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You're right. Since I've never made that much, it didn't occur to me to check.:cool:
I didn't realize it phases out at $121, 000 for a married couple, so they would be stuck with just putting in $37,000 or $48,000 into their 401k's depending on their age.
 
nightanole said:
I did stipulate that they did have to file jointly. You can do the math, Its about $65k per head in order to get $7500, each. If you are not filing jointly(or single) then yes only one head needs to make at least $65k.


Either way its pretty clear that in order to get the full benefit of the tax credit, you need to be "comfortable" in the central usa outside of all the "tech" cities. So the tax credit is not being used to get EV's into the hands of people who would otherwise be too poor to afford them vs the gasser.
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I always thought you could take the full amount of any federal tax credit, even if it is more that the amount you paid in, or is this only certain tax credits?
 
DTN107 said:
No love for the Chevy Volt?

My co-worker keeps telling me how it is better than a Nissan Leaf since it has a mini-generator to recharge the battery when its battery reaches low capacity when you aren't able to hit up a recharging station.
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It's a plug-in hybrid, not an electric.
The all electric crowd doesn't like it due to the short range, and when running as a hybrid, the mileage is worse than many regular hybrids.
 
nutzo said:
Electric or not, I won't buy a car without a spare, or at least an option to add a spare tire.

Unlike the electric cars that don't even have space for a spare, many of the subcompact cars (at least a few years ago when I looked into this) still had room to add a compact spare.
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You can buy a full sized or compact spare for any car any time.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I agree. They are currently too expensive. And all of them (except Tesla) look like terrible efficiency hatches. r.
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The new gen Leaf actually looks infinitely better than the old one. I'd not drive the old even for free. They should make this available for real. Cut the price by 40% and I'd be game.
 
Lenard said:
You can buy a full sized or compact spare for any car any time.
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And put it where? Electric cars have no space for a spare, since they eliminated the "spare tire well" to make space for the battery pack.

If it's a sedan, you can use up some of your limited trunk space.

But if it's a hatchback (like most electrics), you have to fine some place to securely tie down the tire.
If you have an accident, having a loose tire inside the passenger compartment (the back of the hatch back) can lead to serious injury or even death.
 
nightanole said:
I did stipulate that they did have to file jointly. You can do the math, Its about $65k per head in order to get $7500, each. If you are not filing jointly(or single) then yes only one head needs to make at least $65k.


Either way its pretty clear that in order to get the full benefit of the tax credit, you need to be "comfortable" in the central usa outside of all the "tech" cities. So the tax credit is not being used to get EV's into the hands of people who would otherwise be too poor to afford them vs the gasser.
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7500 each? So they're buying two electric cars?
 
M76 said:
The new gen Leaf actually looks infinitely better than the old one. I'd not drive the old even for free. They should make this available for real. Cut the price by 40% and I'd be game.
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I agree that the new one looks better than the old one, but that isn't saying much.

Tesla seems to be the only electric vehicle maker that has figured people don't want to drive something that looks quirky like a Prius, or like a budget grocery getting hatch.
 
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DTN107 said:
No love for the Chevy Volt?

My co-worker keeps telling me how it is better than a Nissan Leaf since it has a mini-generator to recharge the battery when its battery reaches low capacity when you aren't able to hit up a recharging station.
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I liked the concept of what is essentially a mini diesel-electric locomotive. Then they scrapped that plan and turned it into more of a traditional hybrid by connecting the engine to the wheels as well, and not keeping it as a strict generator.

I'm not sure why they did, but apparently they ran into some sort of problems during development.

The problem with that design though is that it is inherently less efficient. When you are fully charged and running on electric only, you are still lugging around a heavy engine and transmission you don't really need.

In the end, even though I liked the concept in the beginning, it turns out I didn't like the result.

That and it's a Chevy. I'm not sure ain't could make myself buy a Chevy.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Maybe an English major or someone who majored in basket weaving?

Even 15 years ago when I graduated the starting salary fresh out of college for a mechanical engineer was about $50k. It went up a bit then dropped significantly after the financial crisis, but then has gone back up again.

First result when I google it is a Michigan Tech page on engineering salaries. It lists the median starting salary for a Mechanical Engineer at $64,695. Software engineers are a little higher at $70,477, surprisingly Computer Hardware Engineers are even higher than that at $72,030. I thought software was king in the engineering salary world. The lowest is th Environmental Engineer at $59k. I could have guessed Environmental would have been lower.
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Haha, I've been in IT for 25 years, and can promise you no kid will get into a Tier 1 help desk for more than $30-35k. That is for IT.

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Help_Desk_Technician/Hourly_Rate/e039d4f9/Entry-Level $15.62 an hour.
 
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nutzo said:
And put it where? Electric cars have no space for a spare, since they eliminated the "spare tire well" to make space for the battery pack.

If it's a sedan, you can use up some of your limited trunk space.

But if it's a hatchback (like most electrics), you have to fine some place to securely tie down the tire.
If you have an accident, having a loose tire inside the passenger compartment (the back of the hatch back) can lead to serious injury or even death.
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Zarathustra[H] said:
I agree that the new one looks better than the old one, but that isn't saying much.

Tesla seems to be the only electric vehicle maker that has figured people don't want to drive something that looks quirky like a Prius, or like a budget grocery getting hatch.
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I don't get this hate towards hatches, for us Europeans it is perfectly normal to drive a hatch. My first car was a hatch and I loved it, despite the fact that by the time I sold it it started to disintegrate.

This is how it looked a few months after I got it: And this when I finally sold it 8 years later:
60282.jpg 66855.jpg
 
Why is everyone babbling about this car being expensive? The standard Leaf is a 29K car. Why would would this one be different?
 
FlawleZ said:
Why is everyone babbling about this car being expensive? The standard Leaf is a 29K car. Why would would this one be different?
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Look at the Bolt. In 200 mile range form and a few options, this thing will be pushing $40k.
 
NIZMOZ said:
Again, entry level position, you can't call yourself an engineer if you haven't been in the field. lol
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You can call yourself an engineer if you have an engineering degree. You may not be an experienced engineer, but still an engineer :p
 
FlawleZ said:
Why is everyone babbling about this car being expensive? The standard Leaf is a 29K car. Why would would this one be different?
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Because in BEV's, most of the money is tied up in the battery. If the battery is much larger, you will have a much larger price tag as well.

Parja said:
Look at the Bolt. In 200 mile range form and a few options, this thing will be pushing $40k.
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Yep. The bolt is a shitty small hatch. If it weren't for the fact that it's a BEV it would be a $16k car. The fact that it is well over $40k, tells you how much the battery adds to the equation.
 
M76 said:
I don't get this hate towards hatches, for us Europeans it is perfectly normal to drive a hatch. My first car was a hatch and I loved it, despite the fact that by the time I sold it it started to disintegrate.

This is how it looked a few months after I got it: And this when I finally sold it 8 years later:
View attachment 90658 View attachment 90660
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I grew up in Europe as well, but I guess Sweden is a bit of an anomaly for Europe. We had our Volvo sedans and wagons but hatches were less common. I mean, Saab made them but they were not as big sellers. Absolutely everyone had a Volvo Sedan or Wagon.

Hatches came to represent cheap imports like Fiats, Renaults, Peugeots. Tiny French and Italian rust buckets which would get you killed if you evere had an accident, and that couldn't withstand the Scandinavian winter. And then there were the Eastern Bloc imports which were even worse... The only hatches that ever got any respect in Sweden were the VW Golf and the Saab 900. Other than that hatches became associated with cheap unreliable garbage not cars that people bought because they wanted them.

I'm assuming something similar happened here in the U.S. In the early days of hatchbacks they were usually ridiculed as cheap Japanese junk that people bought as grocery getters, not something that someone who likes cars would ever buy.

I even once heard them refered to as "hunchbacks" due to the body style being so unavoidably ugly.

The hatchback reputation for being cheap garbage I guess stuck with the style, even as the brands that gave them that reputation improved and made more reliable vehicles.

You'll still find small circles of car enthusiasts who are in to them (notably VW, Saab and Subaru fans) but overall car guys in the U.S. tend to look down on hatches as a cheap utility car you had to buy because you were broke and needed transportation, not as something you'd ever WANT to drive.

Different reputations in different markets I guess.
 
Neapolitan6th said:
Shame heat is the killer of battery lifespan. Every additional 15 degrees Fahrenheit of increased temperature halves its lifespan (not sure how that varies between different battery techs). Link

It's 108 degrees here ya'll.
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each 8°C (15°F) rise in temperature cuts the life of a sealed lead acid battery in half.
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Well it's a good thing that lead acid batteries have gone the way of the dinosaur when it comes to building electric cars. They just do not have the energy density/weight/volume ratio that long range vehicles need.
 
Eshelmen said:
400 + miles or I'm not interested.
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Yeah, I am kinda on the same boat... I do use my car for relatively long journeys quiet often, so I cannot replace my current can with this, I will have to maintain 2 cars.
 
DTN107 said:
No love for the Chevy Volt?

My co-worker keeps telling me how it is better than a Nissan Leaf since it has a mini-generator to recharge the battery when its battery reaches low capacity when you aren't able to hit up a recharging station.
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I think that's the way to go... It does add extra cost, making the car more expensive, but they can make it an option. I would gladly pay for it...
 
FlawleZ said:
Why is everyone babbling about this car being expensive? The standard Leaf is a 29K car. Why would would this one be different?
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Nissan sent me an email if I wanted to buy it (because I was one of the first people to buy their Hybrid, I get to skip the waiting list...) I'll have to find it, but I don't remember it being cheap.

But, being very tall and living in an apartment, this type of car would be impossible anyway.
 
I can't stop think about how wacky are electricity prices going to be if/when everyone decides to have an electric car.
 
Overblod said:
And why is that? care to elaborate?
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Leaf is small, dinky, boring, and it does the driving for you. I do not want to be driven around, I want to actually do the driving myself. The Civic Si is fast, has sport mode, gets great gas mileage, costs considerably less than a Leaf and so on..... :)
 
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