GDI Lord
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2017
- Messages
- 305
There is, it's called the...Sounds very bad to me. Something out there has to keep companies in check.
And associated multi-year law suits.
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There is, it's called the...Sounds very bad to me. Something out there has to keep companies in check.
I don't think this is Kyle's first rodeo.
How does a review site agreeing not to publish confidential information about a GPU prior to an embargo date equate to being biased? Just curious.
You'd think Nvidia invented NDAs with some of the gamerchair lawyers in this thread.
If you have such extensive experience with hardware reviews then why the F are you here? Shouldn't you be running your own site like [H]ardOCP? I guess since I'm 35, I have 35 years experience too right?Thanks man, but its closer to 30 years now in the hardware business, not just GPUs
"Public perception of NVIDIA has already taken a beating in the wake of the GPP controversy, and it's the duty of press to point out similar misadventures by the company, but maybe not based on misinterpretations of internal documents. We feel that Heise is overreacting and possibly looking to become a martyr, by just following the trend of bashing NVIDIA." - LOL. "Bashing NVIDIA."Not sure if it has been mentioned in here this morning but TPU (rolled over) and signed the NDA... A bit disappointed with them over that. I'll still frequent the site though.
https://www.techpowerup.com/245507/revised-nvidia-reviewers-nda-raises-eyebrows-our-thoughts
rofl..... I'm speechlessI think whoever wrote that article is on his way to giving Jensen an enema via tongue.
Not sure if it has been mentioned in here this morning but TPU (rolled over) and signed the NDA... A bit disappointed with them over that. I'll still frequent the site though.
https://www.techpowerup.com/245507/revised-nvidia-reviewers-nda-raises-eyebrows-our-thoughts
If you have such extensive experience with hardware reviews then why the F are you here? Shouldn't you be running your own site like [H]ardOCP? I guess since I'm 35, I have 35 years experience too right?
I think I'll leave my judgments and trust Kyle since I've been reading his reviews for the last 13 years......
Good points! I can most definitely see GPP v2 coming down the pike, hidden by the first NDA. I wonder if something similar has been sent to the vendors as well (not just the Journalists)??For those who may be confused or unsure of the implications of signing such a loose and vaguely worded NDA, the bold and underlined above are those implications. This NDA is not 'just about' product reviews, but includes other practices and decisions the company may hint at taking, or have taken.
NDA's are used for all sorts of purposes, usually to protect trade secrets and IP, sometimes too sensitive to even file a patent for.
In this case of Nvidia asking JOURNALISTS to sign this specific NDA, which covers the entirety of Nvidia as a company and not specific products or services, the implications are that ANYTHING Nvidia classifies as confidential information (CI), cannot be discussed at all, unless there's already a verified public release of said information.
To give an example, any person or entity who signs this NDA, would have been barred from discussing GPP, as it would have been marked as CI.
At least until it became public knowledge, which may or may not have happened, because divulging the existence of GPP, would have been against the terms of the NDA, and potentially bring financial liability down on the person or entity.
What I see happening, as devil's advocate, is this is a soft ball.
Any signees, will receive preferential treatment, giving them a warm and fuzzy feeling of how good this is for their interests.
Then will come the fast ball, a secondary NDA for journalists or wind of a GPP v2 agreement for vendors, that would be marked as CI.
Now that they're (journalists) under the first NDA, they're not even allowed to discuss the existence of any follow-up agreements of that nature they may hear from vendors.
They're already embedded with Nvidia, they're receiving good benefits and want to continue, plus according to the first NDA even if they don't want to continue, they wouldn't be able to discuss new agreements without breaking the first NDA.
This is not just about product reviews.
Whenever we've come across bad products from NVIDIA, such as the GeForce GTX 480, or bad implementations of NVIDIA cards by its AIC partners, we've never hesitated to bring them to the attention of our readers, and will never stop doing so. One could easily argue that the drama after the GTX 480 launch was for the benefit of NVIDIA, because it pushed them in the right direction, to improve their product, which has led to their market dominance today.
I love this excerpt from TPU's rebuttal:
"Even our criticism is beneficial to Nvidia because it will give them the feedback they need to improve their product. *groveling* Please don't stop sampling us."
I would suggest this NDA has NOTHING to do with product reviews.This is not just about product reviews.
I would suggest this NDA has NOTHING to do with product reviews.Actually that was an accurate statement. If NVIDIA releases shit. And the reviewers call them for it. It is a driving force to do better. If they were never called on releasing shit (hi intel) then they would just keep doing minor iterations.
How, less than smart can they be, I was just reading it a bit, this basically is open ended as legal document can be... we shall sue you anytime its what it says, and lets be honest, for anything they see fit ( nvidia just needs a good lawyer) .. shit TPU should break it right now... I am not a laywer but to me that is a fucking liability granade with the pin pulled. Any real lawyers here would agree?Not sure if it has been mentioned in here this morning but TPU (rolled over) and signed the NDA... A bit disappointed with them over that. I'll still frequent the site though.
https://www.techpowerup.com/245507/revised-nvidia-reviewers-nda-raises-eyebrows-our-thoughts
How specifically does the NDA prevent or discourage any of that? I'm genuinely curious how you came to the conclusion that it "restricts them from forming their own opinions"., by signing such an NDA restricts them from forming their own opinions, and/or even detailing out quality, perceptions on product use and/or direction, etc..
He didn't, that was the whole point.....it was sarcasm aimed at his comments basically challenging Kyle's view on the NDA....sorry i should have used the " /s " after my statement about it, but I thought it was implied pretty clearly.Didn't see stoly note they are in the review sector - I've been deep within the industry (hardware just as stoly) for 31+ years, seen lots of NDA's etc... Our (hardware/software companies/engineers) NDA's can be pretty rough as a result, however Kyle (and all review sites), by signing such an NDA restricts them from forming their own opinions, and/or even detailing out quality, perceptions on product use and/or direction, etc..
How can you form opinions when somebody else decides what you speak about, .. what , your articles would turn into poetry and suppositions or something.. .. never mind what you are saying, that document is poison just on the basis of how much it can make you liable for.How specifically does the NDA prevent or discourage any of that? I'm genuinely curious how you came to the conclusion that it "restricts them from forming their own opinions".
Oh Jesus, I am a lay person and that NDA reads like a poison pill... Shit Jesus sign in 2 days.. that alone is bullshit. Wow!Guru3D also signed the NDA, here is their article/explanation:
http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/new_nvidia_press_embargo_stirs_things_up.html
Sounds like quite a few sites signed the NDA and are finally posting up their articles to explain/justify their signing. I am sure there are more to come in the next few days. I'm just digging around through forums on sites I tend to check out.
Clause 3 bud.I'm genuinely curious how you came to the conclusion that it "restricts them from forming their own opinions".
Shall only use confidential information solely for the benefit of nvidia corporation
Oh Jesus, I am a lay person and that NDA reads like a poison pill... Shit Jesus sign in 2 days.. that alone is bullshit. Wow!
Heheh so actual low volta yeilds, would have to be either not reported or reported as: yeilds for the new high performance volta gpus are higher than the lastest prediction by nvidia.Clause 3 bud.
Yes, and i am sure all these tech websites have the army of laywers needed to fend of the massive years long liability you just signed and Nvidia can enforce with their real actual army of lawyers. I understand what you say, but doesn't change my understanding that you are just giving nvidia a knife to your neck.That's very apparent. You don't understand the true purpose of these NDAs then.
NDAs exist so that the company providing the product is protected should something unfavorable happen due to the release of the Confidential Information they are providing. Should they give out unreleased tech (as they always do), and someone leaks info, and that leak affects the stock price, the company is protected from accusations of trying to manipulate the market. It also lets them control that information release to a specific date, again, so as to prevent market manipulations.
Once you get into actually doing business with bleeding-edge technology in any industry, such NDAs are common and expected. The kicker here is that English words and legal words do not always have the same meanings as well, so you cannot just take the words in the NDA at face value unless you are reading it in "legalese". When you do, you'd realize that NDAs don't really do much at all.
Yes, NDA are commonplace, if you work with that company in a business capacity. Information embargoes on specific products are commonplace NDAs when it comes to tech reviewers This NDA is far reaching, open ended, and is being applied to "journalists." Quite frankly any company or site that signs this is not concerned with journalism in any respect. They are video card reviewers. And I am fine with that. Just keep that in mind when you are reading about anything other than objective performance results of an NVIDIA card.Once you get into actually doing business with bleeding-edge technology in any industry, such NDAs are common and expected. The kicker here is that English words and legal words do not always have the same meanings as well, so you cannot just take the words in the NDA at face value unless you are reading it in "legalese". When you do, you'd realize that NDAs don't really do much at all.
That's very apparent. You don't understand the true purpose of these NDAs then.
NDAs exist so that the company providing the product is protected should something unfavorable happen due to the release of the Confidential Information they are providing. Should they give out unreleased tech (as they always do), and someone leaks info, and that leak affects the stock price, the company is protected from accusations of trying to manipulate the market. It also lets them control that information release to a specific date, again, so as to prevent market manipulations.
Once you get into actually doing business with bleeding-edge technology in any industry, such NDAs are common and expected. The kicker here is that English words and legal words do not always have the same meanings as well, so you cannot just take the words in the NDA at face value unless you are reading it in "legalese". When you do, you'd realize that NDAs don't really do much at all.
Thats the thing.. wtf is nvidia afraid of.. titan v is a fucking monster.. i mean i guess the cut down versions are shit or something... They have become a successful company on merit and hardwork, i still don't get them... Oh well.As an open source developer, I loathe NDAs (and don't sign them). Recently I developed some software around a "closed" product. They changed their previously exposed APIs and tried to force every developer to sign an NDA to get API access. I refused because you can't expose their API under NDA, and guess what open source is/does? Later on, they exposed their closed API in some open source they developed (grin), so I was back in business. What I'm saying is that companies in general don't realize the doors they are closing.... all out of fear. I wouldn't want to work for a company that lives in fear all the time. Nvidia is very afraid right now. This next year or two could be very interesting.
Clause 3 bud.
Shall only use confidential information solely for the benefit of nvidia corporation
Losing market shares, plain an simple. If word gets out early that the new product is bad it will significantly hurt sales and they lose truck loads of money. That's what they fear.Thats the thing.. wtf is nvidia afraid of.. titan v is a fucking monster.. i mean i guess the cut down versions are shit or something... They have become a successful company on merit and hardwork, i still don't get them... Oh well.
Computer Base and PC Games Hardware also bent the knee. The latter is extremely disappointing.
https://www.computerbase.de/2018-06/stellungnahme-nvidia-nda/
http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/u...it-zweifelhaften-passagen-11.html#post9403217
I read German very slowly, so I have not yet gone through the entirety of PCGH's post. I can say that CB is similar to others posted so far, including the accusation of Heise stirring up controversy for clicks.