NY Govt Wants Its Cut

tax the shit out of them.... the ones who are subletting more than a dozen units
 
Kdawg said:
tax the shit out of them.... the ones who are subletting more than a dozen units
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I think that is what some areas did. If you rent out more than 1 location or rent a single location more than 1 month a year they bumped you into the hospitality category.

Although I wouldn't say that it is really taxing the shit out of them. It is making them pay taxes that already exist that they are trying to get around.
 
86 5.0L said:
The article obviously wasn't directed at you. Please move on.
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hey, his comment obviously wasn't directed at you, please move on ;) damn, your comment wasn't aimed at me so I shouldn't have read that or shouldn't be writing this reply. Further more no comments or articles are directed at a single person so nobody should ever reply to anyone's post or to any article... we should all just delete our accounts now as that is the only solution out of this downward slope we are on.
 
toast0 said:
Hotel taxes are pretty bullshit (especially if you've ever visited Arizona, wow do they love taxing visitors); but if your AirBNB operates like a hotel, it should pay hotel taxes.
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We do pay taxes! I pay city taxes, county taxes, transit taxes and a ~30% tax on every penny I "make" off of our vacation rentals. I probably pay more taxes, percentage wise, than the average person. Furthermore, I have to depreciate the structure's value and pay an appreciation tax when or if I decide to sell the property. Last year, one of our properties lost ~$15K due to required maintenance and renovations. This year, I'll be lucky to break even. So, yeah, taxes suck, but "honest" Airbnb businesses pay their fair share of taxes IMHO...

With that said, the price of rent is going up regardless of the Airbnb situation. Long term renting is a HUGE risk with very little rewards. Local/State Landlord/Tenant laws make it difficult and expensive to evict deadbeat renters given the right circumstances (kids, low income, etc.). Quality renters are scarce because they've moved onto buying homes. IMHO, the scarcity of rental housing is more our government's fault more than Airbnb's. The government puts artificial restrictions on new housing by monetizing heavily on zoning, growth limitations, permits, earmarks and taxes. For instance, a local developer recently tried building a small apartment complex in our small city of ~5K. The city rejected the developers offer unless they agreed to donate a large sum of money to the school district and put in a $300K intersection to accommodate the "extra traffic" from the 22 unit dwelling. The deal ultimately fell through and the lot sits vacant to this day.
 
OregonLAN said:
Quality renters are scarce because they've moved onto buying homes.
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I disagree. In most big cities , home prices are so high, most people are forced to rent. Homes are up close to 300% in some markets over the past decade.

I believe rental scarcity has to do with recouping original development/purchasing costs the fastest way possible. Having difficulties selling a new high rise building out? No problem, airbnb the entire thing and make a killing on it. They have been doing this for a few years now, with no sort of oversight. Airbnb, can't have their cake and eat it too. You want to be like a hotel, you should deal with the same regulations.
 
Nunu said:
I disagree. In most big cities , home prices are so high, most people are forced to rent. Homes are up close to 300% in some markets over the past decade.

I believe rental scarcity has to do with recouping original development/purchasing costs the fastest way possible. Having difficulties selling a new high rise building out? No problem, airbnb the entire thing and make a killing on it. They have been doing this for a few years now, with no sort of oversight. Airbnb, can't have their cake and eat it too. You want to be like a hotel, you should deal with the same regulations.
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If you had tens of million of dollars tied up in newly developed property (that you couldn't sell), wouldn't you be trying to recoup the original development/purchasing costs "the fastest way possible"? I know I would. It costs a crapload of money to maintain a high rise building. As for Airbnb, they only collect a small portion of the rental fees. It's kinda' like Ebay for rental properties. Should we expect eBay to pay sales taxes on all goods that are sold by their users? The property owners receive most of the profit and are required to pay taxes on it. IMHO, nobody's getting screwed except for the multi-billion dollar Hotel chains that routinely charge $320+ night for an outdated room with poor Internet and subpar amenities. Until companies like Airbnb and Homeaway became an option, hotel chains didn't have any real competition. They drove the little hotels out of business and then slowly started jacking up their rates to be consistent. The government is still collecting their 35% - 40% cut from the owner's profits, and owners are responsible for paying their local occupancy taxes if applicable. New York is just bitching because they want more money. People are bitching because they've been priced out of the housing market in large cities...
 
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Submarinesailor said:
This article is HardOCP material how?
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It isn't.

This is just another political opinion thread that Kyle hopes will get more engagement. That is how websites work. Post sensationalist material and get more clicks/engagement.
Anyway, AirBNB and Uber getting some regulation is fine with me. Don't like it? Then don't use/provide it. It is pretty simple.
 
Staples said:
It isn't.

This is just another political opinion thread that Kyle hopes will get more engagement. That is how websites work. Post sensationalist material and get more clicks/engagement.
Anyway, AirBNB and Uber getting some regulation is fine with me. Don't like it? Then don't use/provide it. It is pretty simple.
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I say bring on the clickbait tittas!

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each town/City/State needs to install it's own internet system
 
OregonLAN said:
Until companies like Airbnb and Homeaway became an option, hotel chains didn't have any real competition
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Airbnb and Homeaway aren't competing, they are actually stealing by not paying like all the rest. You seem to think airbnb is some flyby night outfit. Last I checked they're as big as some of the largest hotel chains ~$31 billion valuation. They, much like Uber and all these other bullshit scams, are not "disrupting" anything except the tax collections. Guess what, I pay my taxes , yet they don't want to . Now how the hell is that fair?
 
But that's where you fail to understand what Airbnb and HomeAway are. They aren't hotel chains. They dont own or rent vacation homes (to my knowledge). Their websites are nothing more than a web portal for property owners and users to communicate with each other and/or conduct business. Their business models are similar to any SAP (i.e. Ariba). As such, they charge a fee and take a small portion of the profits for each and every transaction. Airbnb and HomeAway both pay their business taxes, like any other company. The owner of the property pays business taxes and any applicapable taxes that are required by state, federal, county or city. Asking them to pay a hotel tax would be like asking Ariba to pay an additional sales tax on the items their customers sell through their SAP. It'd be like asking eBay to pay sales tax on items sold by their users. It's neither Airbnb's nor Homeaway's responsibility to pay this tax because it is paid by the property owners, like myself. The reason Airbnb and HomeAway are so huge is because millions of people use them. Ariba and eBay are pretty huge too...
 
I get it, they leverage property owners, offset all the risk to them and make money off of that. Their model does not compare to ebay. Ebay is a marketplace. Airbnb masquerades as such to avoid regulations and risk costs.

Let me put this another way. If you own a building, your tenants pay you a monthly rent, most have at least a year long contract. If you do airbnb, you rent it daily, no longterm contracts, for way more money. You have essentially shifted from a landlord to a hotel owner the moment you do this. You are no longer leasing to tenants, but visiting guests. This is how people are making money off it, especially in big cities. Now you can pretend and say no, i pay my taxes on my building/land, so i'm golden, but you really are not. You are using your building as a hotel, but have none of their regulations or state/fed law requirements. All the pleasure with none of the pain.

Again, I have no issue with someone renting a room or a home out, but when entire apartment buildings, are being used only for this, same as a hotel would be, then yes, they need to be taxed the same. It doesn't matter how you got to do it. Moreover, if the system facilitating this claims it's not doing it, then at the very least it's helping folks dip from paying insurance and regulatory costs present in the hotel industry. That's where all this profit comes from. Pay up and see how well you do after. Lastly, if it walks like a duck...
 
umeng2002 said:
The government just protects who ever pays them off.
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The media protects the politicians from the consequences of such corruption as long as the media gets what they want.

The professional 4th estate has failed to execute its roll in our society. The idea they should uniquely have a voice or have respect is long gone.
 
OregonLAN said:
But that's where you fail to understand what Airbnb and HomeAway are. They aren't hotel chains. They dont own or rent vacation homes (to my knowledge). Their websites are nothing more than a web portal for property owners and users to communicate with each other and/or conduct business. Their business models are similar to any SAP (i.e. Ariba). As such, they charge a fee and take a small portion of the profits for each and every transaction. Airbnb and HomeAway both pay their business taxes, like any other company. The owner of the property pays business taxes and any applicapable taxes that are required by state, federal, county or city. Asking them to pay a hotel tax would be like asking Ariba to pay an additional sales tax on the items their customers sell through their SAP. It'd be like asking eBay to pay sales tax on items sold by their users. It's neither Airbnb's nor Homeaway's responsibility to pay this tax because it is paid by the property owners, like myself. The reason Airbnb and HomeAway are so huge is because millions of people use them. Ariba and eBay are pretty huge too...
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big IF AirBnB audits their listing regularly to ensure local tax laws are followed else the threat of delisting.
 
I do agree that larger property owners/investors should be held accountable for hotel (like) taxes and regulations if they own and operate large amounts of vacation rentals. However, I do not agree that Airbnb or Homeaway should be held liable or accountable for this unless they are the property owners and operators. Airbnb is more or less an Internet company like Travelocity or Priceline.

As for renting a vacation home, it's not always about profit. Most owners are just looking to supplement their costs of ownership. In some areas, the market is so oversaturated that owners are lucky to get a 30% yearly occupancy. For example, in Maui, we rent a nice 2 bedroom condo for $175 a night (inclusive). Similar condos rent for $2200 a month and cost $760,000.00 to purchase outright (not including HOA fees and taxes). Local competition forces owners to constantly upgrade/remodel and/or offer extravagants to their guests in order to stand out. Again, the Maui condo we rent has super high end integrated appliances (Sub-Zero Fridge, Italian marble countertops, solid wood cabinets etc...) and offers all bathroom and kitchen amenities for free. I talked to the owner about buying a vacation rental in Maui. His response was, "DON'T!". The market is so oversaturated with vacation rentals, that unless you are trying to offset your own investment, there's no point of owning a condo in Maui because it's much cheaper to rent one.

2 weeks ago, my wife and I spent the weekend at the Sunriver on the golf course. We rented a 1300 sqft 2 bedroom condo (on the course) for 3 nights. Our total cost was $420.00. The place was pretty nice and easily better than any hotel in the area. Considering the course fees, water park fees, HOA fees, cleaning fees, restocking fees and cost of ownership in Sunriver, I doubt the property owner was making much...
 
theBrownLlama said:
big IF AirBnB audits their listing regularly to ensure local tax laws are followed else the threat of delisting.
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Shouldn't it be the owners responsibility to follow the laws and/or report taxes to the federal government? Airbnb sends a me tax statement at the end of the year. If I make more than $20K a year, Airbnb files a W9 with the federal government. Hell, Airbnb even collect a local "occupancy" tax from my earning because our county requires them to do so. Now, because I claim my Airbnb
theBrownLlama said:
big IF AirBnB audits their listing regularly to ensure local tax laws are followed else the threat of delisting.
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So, punish Airbnb because property owners aren't reporting/paying their taxes properly? Airbnb sends me a tax statement at the end of the year. If I earn more than $20K in a year, they file a W9 with the federal government.
 
Funny this place, feds go after Amazon for them to collect taxes and people lose their shit, how dare the government take my money, interstate commerce, yadda yadda, AirBnB may not collect occupancy tax (apparently they do according to OregonLAN) and these fuckers arent paying their fair share!!
 
OregonLAN said:
We do pay taxes! I pay city taxes, county taxes, transit taxes and a ~30% tax on every penny I "make" off of our vacation rentals. I probably pay more taxes, percentage wise, than the average person. Furthermore, I have to depreciate the structure's value and pay an appreciation tax when or if I decide to sell the property. Last year, one of our properties lost ~$15K due to required maintenance and renovations. This year, I'll be lucky to break even. So, yeah, taxes suck, but "honest" Airbnb businesses pay their fair share of taxes IMHO....
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All the hotels pay all those taxes too and the hotel tax. When I stay at a vacation rental, it's basically the same as staying at a hotel, except nobody comes and bothers me to change the sheets and towels all the time; if a municipality is taxing me to be a visitor, they should tax me on a hotel or a vacation rental the same. It's maybe different if I'm just renting a bedroom, or sharing a couch, or if you're only renting your place out while you're away, but if it's a place to sleep business, it's a place to sleep business.
 
Next up is that comptroller saying they're not getting enough tax dollars from all of us breathing air.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Funny this place, feds go after Amazon for them to collect taxes and people lose their shit, how dare the government take my money, interstate commerce, yadda yadda, AirBnB may not collect occupancy tax (apparently they do according to OregonLAN) and these fuckers arent paying their fair share!!
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you are assuming it is the same group that is saying both. Personally, i think all parties should be paying their fair share.
 
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