Is the Mining Craze Over for Now

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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This is music to the gamers' ears. "Taiwan graphic card makers to see shipments plunge 40% in April," as reported by DigiTimes. It looks as though mining has finally hit the wall for a bit in terms of driving the market to crazy prices that many of us simply cannot afford. MSRP GPUs are a benefit to the entire DIY PC industry. Why build a new gaming system if you have to put an old video card in it? I think this deserves a Navin Johnson reference, but I already rolled that one out last week.


Taiwan-based graphics card makers including Gigabyte Technology, Micro-Star International (MSI) and TUL are expected to see their shipments for April plunge over 40% on month, as many clients have suspended taking shipments in response to drastic slowdown in demand for cryptocurrency mining machines, according to industry sources.

Quite a few mining farm operators have even stopped purchasing graphic cards, as they are awaiting the rollout of Ethereum mining machines by China's Bitmain in the third quarter of 2018. They anticipate mining rewards to pick up gradually in the third quarter, as Bitcoin and Ethereum values may rebound following sharp declines seen in early 2018, the sources indicated.
 
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cdabc123 said:
still profitable. although now is the time to buy a videocard for all you gamers. if price picks up again gpu prices will go crazy as they did a few times in the last year.
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Still waiting for a) a new card release b) prices that are BELOW MSRP c) the glut of mining cards on eBay.

I'm not paying MSRP for 2 year old nV tech/year old Vega, especially when new stuff is likely coming and will further tank the used market. I'm fine with the performance of the current cards, but I still feel that at MSRP the price to performance ratio is still wacky compared to normal. Things need to settle more.
 
BigJayDogg3 said:
Still waiting for a) a new card release b) prices that are BELOW MSRP c) the glut of mining cards on eBay.

I'm not paying MSRP for 2 year old nV tech/year old Vega, especially when new stuff is likely coming and will further tank the used market.
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^^^This.


Plus I already spent my money that I was going to use on video cards on other things. Their loss, not mine. Congrats to AMD/Nvidia, they lost a customer that would have given them tons of business over the next years to chase a little bit of fast profit. I don't patronize businesses that throw their long time customers under the bus. See below for reference:

https://hardforum.com/threads/fed-u...-suck-it-up-and-mine.1956631/#post-1043540087
 
BigJayDogg3 said:
Still waiting for a) a new card release b) prices that are BELOW MSRP c) the glut of mining cards on eBay.

I'm not paying MSRP for 2 year old nV tech/year old Vega, especially when new stuff is likely coming and will further tank the used market. I'm fine with the performance of the current cards, but I still feel that at MSRP the price to performance ratio is still wacky compared to normal. Things need to settle more.
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then dont buy a card, or buy really quick next release. all im saying is i currently do not see the end to mining right now and prices are edging up on crypto again. Historicly when the prices hit a "news worth point" mining jumps WAY up as abunch of stupid people pay out the ass for any card that mines. that may happen again meaning this may be the best the market looks in abit.
 
TordanGow said:
^^^This.


Plus I already spent my money that I was going to use on video cards on other things. Their loss, not mine. Congrats to AMD/Nvidia, they lost a customer that would have given them tons of business over the next years to chase a little bit of fast profit. I don't patronize businesses that throw their long time customers under the bus. See below for reference:

https://hardforum.com/threads/fed-u...-suck-it-up-and-mine.1956631/#post-1043540087
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so your never going to buy a gpu ever again? there really arnt loosing. right now they will sell anything they make and if mining dies down plenty of gamers would be in line to buy cards if the price is reasonable
 
cdabc123 said:
then dont buy a card, or buy really quick next release. all im saying is i currently do not see the end to mining right now and prices are edging up on crypto again. Historicly when the prices hit a "news worth point" mining jumps WAY up as abunch of stupid people pay out the ass for any card that mines. that may happen again meaning this may be the best the market looks in abit.
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In which case, when people start dumping their 10-series mining cards, I'll buy those. Profitability will likely be less favorable to them since they will be less powerful while consuming more energy. And that's ignoring the fact that with crypto specific hardware in the pipeline, the really big operations are going to move away from GPU-mining, drive the difficulty up, and make the hobbyist miner less profitable still.

That's fine with me. Like I said, a 1080's performance is perfectly acceptable for what I plan on doing. It can do over 100 FPS in the games I play at 1080p, and is sufficient to do the VR gaming I do. As it stands my 970 is an edge case, the 1080 will likely put me exactly where I want to be.

And if the 1080Ti can drop in the 400-500 range? I'll be set for quite some time.
 
SWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWETNESS! This is awesome news. I'm not a hater of the small time miners, they don't buy enough GPUs. But the goodaaamn warehouse minus can suck my cheeetoh balls.

Thanks Kyle for bringing such great news. So now Kyle can afford to buy us all 1080ti's now right?
 
cdabc123 said:
so your never going to buy a gpu ever again? there really arnt loosing. right now they will sell anything they make and if mining dies down plenty of gamers would be in line to buy cards if the price is reasonable
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I have X amount of dollars and Y amount of hobbies for discretionary spending. I'll keep busy and have fun, just doing other things.

At some point if/when GPU mining vanishes they will need customers, they've put themselves low on my hobby priority list. When you essentially abandon your core customers that have been with you for decades because some flash in the pan new customer wants to spend a lot, don't expect your core customers to stick around.
 
TordanGow said:
^^^This.


Plus I already spent my money that I was going to use on video cards on other things. Their loss, not mine. Congrats to AMD/Nvidia, they lost a customer that would have given them tons of business over the next years to chase a little bit of fast profit. I don't patronize businesses that throw their long time customers under the bus. See below for reference:

https://hardforum.com/threads/fed-u...-suck-it-up-and-mine.1956631/#post-1043540087
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So, you're not going to support Nvidia /or/ AMD? No GPU for you?

In so far as miner purchases go...I bet just the miners on this forum have purchased more cards than all the enthusiast gamers combined on [H] will for their entire lives. And money today is worth more than money tomorrow.

Standing by your principles is honorable, no doubt about it. I hope you will still consider buying in the secondary market.
 
Joust said:
In so far as miner purchases go...I bet just the miners on this forum have purchased more cards than all the enthusiast gamers combined on [H] will for their entire lives. And money today is worth more than money tomorrow.
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I don't blame the miners per se, they were/are trying to buy equipment to turn a profit.

I do blame the GPU manufacturing industry for not keeping their core customers (ie. the people who have bought GPUS and would continue to buy them into the future) taken care of. I have a business and some of my clients have been with me 15+ years. They repeat and come back over and over. If a regular client wanted some services completed and a new one time client wanted to make a service purchase that would take away from a long-term client I wouldn't do it. I'd complete the regular client's work and offer a different timeline, etc. to the new client.


Joust said:
So, you're not going to support Nvidia /or/ AMD? No GPU for you?

Standing by your principles is honorable, no doubt about it. I hope you will still consider buying in the secondary market.
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Like any manufacturer they can set requirements to be a vendor of their products. Companies do this all the time. For example, if you want to carry Frito-Lay products at your grocery store you will be contractually obligated to provide X amount of shelf space at Y eye level for their products. If you don't agree, Frito-Lay won't sell you products for resale. AMD/Nvidia refused to protect long time customers, so screw them.
 
TordanGow said:
Their loss, not mine. Congrats to AMD/Nvidia, they lost a customer that would have given them tons of business over the next years to chase a little bit of fast profit. I don't patronize businesses that throw their long time customers under the bus.7
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toby-flenderson-1524677692.jpg
 
Joust said:
In so far as miner purchases go...I bet just the miners on this forum have purchased more cards than all the enthusiast gamers combined on [H] will for their entire lives. And money today is worth more than money tomorrow.
.
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Sorry to double quote but also they could still have participated in both markets. Miners would still buy every card they could since to them it's just a machine to produce a good, in this case cryptocurrency. If you had 10000 cards to sell, if you sold (1000 to "gamers" and 9000 to miners) or (all 10000 to miners) you still sold 10000 cards. They absolutely could still have ran the factories balls-to-the wall for crypto sales and still taken care of their core customers at the same time.
 
BigJayDogg3 said:
In which case, when people start dumping their 10-series mining cards, I'll buy those. Profitability will likely be less favorable to them since they will be less powerful while consuming more energy. And that's ignoring the fact that with crypto specific hardware in the pipeline, the really big operations are going to move away from GPU-mining, drive the difficulty up, and make the hobbyist miner less profitable still.

That's fine with me. Like I said, a 1080's performance is perfectly acceptable for what I plan on doing. It can do over 100 FPS in the games I play at 1080p, and is sufficient to do the VR gaming I do. As it stands my 970 is an edge case, the 1080 will likely put me exactly where I want to be.

And if the 1080Ti can drop in the 400-500 range? I'll be set for quite some time.
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That may very well be the case. I actually saw a 1080ti go for 600 flat on Craigslist earilyer

TordanGow said:
I have X amount of dollars and Y amount of hobbies for discretionary spending. I'll keep busy and have fun, just doing other things.

At some point if/when GPU mining vanishes they will need customers, they've put themselves low on my hobby priority list. When you essentially abandon your core customers that have been with you for decades because some flash in the pan new customer wants to spend a lot, don't expect your core customers to stick around.
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To be fair they didn't really abandoned customers. Ramping up preduction isn't that easy and it's a risky move to try to do it when most of the demand is crypto based. All they did was not descriminate on who bought there cards and up the price Abit. Both I would consider to be completely ligitement moves
 
Jim Kim said:
WOW,
Those companies must have stolen your lunch money or something.
Would you like some cheese with that whine.
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Say what you want, my money will be going elsewhere. If you don't like that, go have a cry about it or something big guy. Maybe you can buy extra cards to help pad their coffers since I won't be spending my money with them. Real guns are more fun than virtual GPU generated guns anyways.
 
Yaay. Now lets hope that when the new cards come out they don't spark interest with miners... at least long enough to see some [H] reviews to make a good, sensible choice to make an actual purchase.
 
fuzzylogik said:
Yaay. Now lets hope that when the new cards come out they don't spark interest with miners... at least long enough to see some [H] reviews to make a good, sensible choice to make an actual purchase.
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Check mining profitability before the release if it's still reasonable buy the card the second it's released. If it's not all that scalp it on eBay for more then you bought it for. Thats been the case for the last few releases and releases will be messed up for a long time.
 
cdabc123 said:
To be fair they didn't really abandoned customers. Ramping up preduction isn't that easy and it's a risky move to try to do it when most of the demand is crypto based. All they did was not descriminate on who bought there cards and up the price Abit. Both I would consider to be completely ligitement moves
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For sure they are well within their right to do so. They have no legal obligation to address decade long customers over a new one.

However, I'm also within my right to determine I don't like how they run their business and just not spend my money on their products anymore too.
 
TordanGow said:
Say what you want, my money will be going elsewhere. If you don't like that, go have a cry about it or something big guy. Maybe you can buy extra cards to help pad their coffers since I won't be spending my money with them. Real guns are more fun than virtual GPU generated guns anyways.
Click to expand...

Do whatever you want, but you are foolish to believe that AMD or Nvidia have ANY control over retail pricing. They set what price they sell the CHIPS to the MANUFACTURER, who sets what they sell the graphics cards they make to the DISTRIBUTOR, which then sets the price that they sell to the RETAILER, who then decides how much to sell to the END USER. Blaming the manufacturer of the chips is flat out stupid. Learn how the market works.
 
TordanGow said:
I don't blame the miners per se, they were/are trying to buy equipment to turn a profit.

I do blame the GPU manufacturing industry for not keeping their core customers (ie. the people who have bought GPUS and would continue to buy them into the future) taken care of. I have a business and some of my clients have been with me 15+ years. They repeat and come back over and over. If a regular client wanted some services completed and a new one time client wanted to make a service purchase that would take away from a long-term client I wouldn't do it. I'd complete the regular client's work and offer a different timeline, etc. to the new client.




Like any manufacturer they can set requirements to be a vendor of their products. Companies do this all the time. For example, if you want to carry Frito-Lay products at your grocery store you will be contractually obligated to provide X amount of shelf space at Y eye level for their products. If you don't agree, Frito-Lay won't sell you products for resale. AMD/Nvidia refused to protect long time customers, so screw them.
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The problem is that I don't understand the mindset here. Every business has the goal to make money. They don't care if they sell to you or Jim, or Steve, or Susan. A sell is a sell is a sell. Money is money.

AMD and NVidia didn't do anything special. They released product XYZ, product XYZ was wanted by two groups. Given that the demand went up the price went up (basic laws of supply and demand there). I don't see how they ever had a fuck you to gamers or were handing stuff to miners on a silver platter.

I personally was part of neither group as I haven't upgraded my gaming pc in 2 years and don't mine for coins. However I keep seeing this mindset that gamers were getting fucked over on purpose by card makers because they allowed another group to by cards. Even going so far as they should have some how make it illegal for miners to buy video cards if they weren't going to use them for gaming. I just don't understand how this logic makes any sense for you guys.

Using your Frito-Lay example, you are saying that if Walmart knows that Mr Smith comes in and buys 4 bags of Frito-lays every Saturday and they see somebody buying some for a party that won't leave 4 on the shelf they should tackle the customer, beat the shit out of them and tell them that they can't buy those because a regular will be in to by them maybe?
 
jnemesh said:
Do whatever you want, but you are foolish to believe that AMD or Nvidia have ANY control over retail pricing. They set what price they sell the CHIPS to the MANUFACTURER, who sets what they sell the graphics cards they make to the DISTRIBUTOR, which then sets the price that they sell to the RETAILER, who then decides how much to sell to the END USER. Blaming the manufacturer of the chips is flat out stupid. Learn how the market works.
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AMD/Nvidia can place conditions of purchase on their distributors.
 
Sooooo,...when do you think these new lower prices will hit the streets?
 
TordanGow said:
For sure they are well within their right to do so. They have no legal obligation to address decade long customers over a new one.

However, I'm also within my right to determine I don't like how they run their business and just not spend my money on their products anymore too.
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nvida and amd are not as involved in sales as you may think. that would be there partners. there also isnt any way that would actually keep gpus out of miners hands. and many of thease miners have been decades long customers as well. and again are you saying you will never buy another gpu?
 
cdabc123 said:
Check mining profitability before the release if it's still reasonable buy the card the second it's released. If it's not all that scalp it on eBay for more then you bought it for. Thats been the case for the last few releases and releases will be messed up for a long time.
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I don't think it be worth it to buy new cards for miningas it is now. The ROI is just to long at this moment.
 
TordanGow said:
Real guns are more fun than virtual GPU generated guns anyways.
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The only thing you've said in this thread I can 100% agree on!

Personally, I would prefer that GPU mining would be a sustainable economy, and the manufacturers ramp up their production to meet demand. That keeps the market moving, as both AMD and nVidia will be able to have enough cash flow to produce new products. If the market is left to just gamers, I fear there won't be much of a market in a few years.
 
vegeta535 said:
I don't think it be worth it to buy new cards for miningas it is now. The ROI is just to long at this moment.
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i never said buying for mining. that responces was to someone who aperently wanted to buy a high end card for gaming.
 
cdabc123 said:
nvida and amd are not as involved in sales as you may think. that would be there partners. there also isnt any way that would actually keep gpus out of miners hands. and many of thease miners have been decades long customers as well. and again are you saying you will never buy another gpu?
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I'm saying that if I have $10000 in disposable income this year and $15000 in wants, then it sucks to be on the bottom of the list.
 
jardows said:
The only thing you've said in this thread I can 100% agree on!

Personally, I would prefer that GPU mining would be a sustainable economy, and the manufacturers ramp up their production to meet demand. That keeps the market moving, as both AMD and nVidia will be able to have enough cash flow to produce new products. If the market is left to just gamers, I fear there won't be much of a market in a few years.
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thats why nvidia is pushing so much twords ai. mining is stupid tempermental
 
cdabc123 said:
Check mining profitability before the release if it's still reasonable buy the card the second it's released. If it's not all that scalp it on eBay for more then you bought it for. Thats been the case for the last few releases and releases will be messed up for a long time.
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Eh, hate buying used unless I know the person selling it (and I don't want to take the time buying/selling the stuff either) - I'm just hoping for 'normal' prices lol
 
fuzzylogik said:
i'm hoping that it will continue into the future and the purpose made stuff will be what miners grab. we shall see though :)
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no company would purpose make gear for a specific coin. asics are a borderline scam. the best case scenario would be a general compute card being released
 
cdabc123 said:
thats why nvidia is pushing so much twords ai. mining is stupid tempermental
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But AI doesn't do squat for gaming graphics. If AI becomes the "stable" income generator for NVidia, gaming will be an afterthought. It's like Intel for the past 7-8 years desperately trying to enter the mobile space and the high-end supercomputer space. What did we get? Progress that makes us have to ask ourselves if upgrading a 7-year old computer is worth the cost for the performance gains!

At least mining uses the same computational sequences as graphics programming, making a good mining card a good graphics card, and vice versa.
 
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