Dell and HP Resist the NVIDIA GPP Leash - So Far

Schmave said:
Crap like this is one of the reasons my last two cards have been AMD cards. Nvidia has a history of engaging in anti-consumer business practices.

I think all gamers need to seriously factor this into their next GPU purchase. I totally understand that Nvidia has a technology advantage these days and that their cards can give better performance. However, the only way to stop behavior like this is if people stop buying their products. They really don't care about how much people complain on forums, etc. if they are still making money selling cards.
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I don't think this'll last too long, I still believe AMD has a card up their sleeve, & nVidia has caught wind of it and is trying to squash it.
 
Azphira said:
Sure it may be a tin hat thing but it feels like nvidia makes compute cards that happen to do games. And paid $112 million just to block a technology that would have allowed others to make better gaming cards that would have cost them profits from gamers to build their compute card empire.
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Isn't it so that the AMD cards mine better? Hmm....
 
ecmaster76 said:
Its amazing how many people cant see past this week's benchmarks. I bet they still use Internet Explorer 6, SoundBlasters, and Bell rotary telephones.
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Those rotary telephones have a great advantage: if you turn the dial & stick a pencil in it, they can't listen to your conversation in the room with the phone.
 
NKD said:
once again someone missed the point of the article. May be read the article next time it wasn't about if you should build your own system or buy a prebuilt one. lol. You are so off topic here I cant even begin to explain it.
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You're the one who missed his point: he specc'd a good system with HP and was UNABLE to beat it at Newegg. And he used AMD parts. His system is close enough in power to eliminate that few percentage points of e-dick in owning an nVidia card, not to mention price.
 
GoodBoy said:
I still think this could work in favor of AMD. Separate brands means they can build brand reputations all on their own.

In the long run, whatever happens with GPP, if AMD isn't making a competing product, then it isn't going to matter... the only choice will become nVidia. They currently only (really) compete against their own older cards, so maybe it would be ok... but they could go nuts on GPU pricing. If this happens, then the $$ would trigger others to develop for the market. What is wrong with Intel anyway, you'd think they could make a good GPU...

From what I have heard, FTC is getting complaints about GPP before it is really off the ground. Probably wishful thinking, but maybe the FTC would intervene.. say "this clause is anti-competitive", and it would never impact the market because they could just remove the offending bits. Or they might say, "The way this is implemented is not in violation of the law.." and we can move on from worrying about it.

If I had had better experiences with AMD's products in the past, I would join you in buying their GPU next time around. Still might if performance is good. But having been burned more than once, not about to do it without careful consideration. They are to blame for the situation the market is in... place the blame all around, they all are culpable in this.
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No, wrong. This will never benefit AMD. Ever.

And the only thing they can't fight against is the 1080TI. All the rest of the cards have a match in AMD's lineup (performance wise).


UrielDagda said:
Yeah here in the US, in most restaurants, it's either Coke or Pepsi for the most part... The few places around here that have both just sell cans for a buck.
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Here it is the same too. Its one or the other. Never seen both at the same venue.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
He's calling Kyle a liar.
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Unless I'm reading the article wrong, the information about arez came from VCZ, not HardOCP.

I do, however, take issue with people who state unsubstantiated rumors as facts. Especially rumors that come from other websites entirely. If you're going to pretend that a rumor is actual news, then at least let it be your own rumor. Otherwise you need to point out that you can't verify the information.
 
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Kaos_Drem said:
Nothing about that statement would be realistic or legitimate. If they banded together its collusion and against the law. If they do it on their own, i suppose its possible but why would Intel/AMD want to give up high end cpu/chipset sales?

Also how are they going to "block" gsync, it doesn't have anything to do with the cpu or platform, on the gpu.
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And what about what nvidia is doing isnt collusion?
 
WBurchnall said:
Having recently considered a laptop...I actually stopped into a BestBuy to see how their selection/prices compared to online...

In store there were:

0 Lenovos
Maybe 5 Dells
10 Acers
10 Mac/Apple Laptops
5 Google Chromebooks (If you consider these laptops)
2 Alienware Laptops
8 or so HPs.

These are all rough estimates mind you but from my initial observation. Probably about 3-4 years ago, you might have seen 8 or so "Gateway" PCs but that brand is gone.

So really the only other big names besides Dell/HP these days are Acer and Apple. A moderate player seems to be Google Chromebooks/Samsung Tablets and finally a small player struggling to pawn $2000 dollar laptops with a GTX1060 in them Alienware.

Honestly though, the best price-performance I found (and this might just be me...) was going with Lenovo.com's online sales direct from manufacturer. The Lenovo Y720 or something like that with a I7-7770k and a GTX 1060 came to ~1500CAD before taxes. BestBuys' equivalent was $1900 CAD. However, the Lenovo was 8GB of ram vs 12GB of ram. You can customize thru the website to equalize that and it's still cheaper. Just my observation anyways. I haven't checked to see how direct from Dell compares to the dell in store at bestbuy yet.
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You realize that Alienware is owned by Dell, right? The laptop you saw was probably the R13, which is pretty bloody nice.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
And your blathering aren't noteworthy, either.

But, I won't block or mute you. I'd rather make fun of you.
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Existing ASUS video cards that don't fall under the ROG umbrella: Turbo, Dual, Expedition, Cerberus, Phoenix.

Adding Arez to that list doesn't mean much. The fate of ROG Radeon products is all that matters, whether or not that has anything to do with Arez remains to be seen. Ignoring the fact that Arez itself remains to be seen. ;)
 
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variant said:
The same rumor that indicates AREZ exists also shows it replaces ROG STRIX with AREZ STRIX.

https://videocardz.com/75783/nvidia-gpp-meet-asus-arez-radeon-series
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Well first off, they are suggesting the entire ASUS brand itself is being replaced with AREZ on the AMD side. Their table shows "ROG" being replaced with "AREZ", and they also show non-ROG cards getting the "AREZ" label appended to them. AREZ isn't just replacing ROG, it's replacing the entire company.

We won't know for sure until ASUS announces they are retiring AMD ROG products, or when the products simply disappear eventually.
 
variant said:
It may be a way to get around the GPP's restriction , split off AMD from ASUS.
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BAAAAD idea. That's simply caving, and won't work unless (UNLESS) they have a new part that's gonna bitch-slap 1080Ti/whatever so hard it'll land in 1999 as a Diamond Speedstar. But that would also mean abandoning ROG to nVidia and letting them color it green.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
I refer you to this: https://hardforum.com/attachments/q8ppacyag3n01-jpg.66964/
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Nvidia would tell you it's not about them claiming ownership of the brand, but making sure they don't share the brand with AMD.
Corvette is a popular sports car from Chevy, how would they feel if Ford released their own sports car called "Corvette"? Same principle. Nvidia is using their market dominance to say they have the rights to those brands, and the AIBs are agreeing.

I'm not defending the move, by the way. The brands have been established for years now, it's just Nvidia's way of sending AMD to the back of the bus.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Nvidia would tell you it's not about them claiming ownership of the brand, but making sure they don't share the brand with AMD.
Corvette is a popular sports car from Chevy, how would they feel if Ford released their own sports car called "Corvette"? Same principle. Nvidia is using their market dominance to say they have the rights to those brands, and the AIBs are agreeing.

I'm not defending the move, by the way. The brands have been established for years now, it's just Nvidia's way of sending AMD to the back of the bus.
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How would a company feel if they used a trademarked name ??? That isn't even close to the same thing.

Asus buys parts from Nvida that is their relationship. Nvidia is a supplier... Asus is Nvidias customer. Not their competition.

Ford using a trademarked name ... or MS releasing iWindows devices. Is not even remotely the same thing.

Nvidia doesn't own a brand trademarked by another company, simply because they sell them a part... Royals Royce doesn't demand brand names from Boeing even if their engines are the most important part of the plane. They can't demand ownership of their customers trademarks on threat of slowing or cutting off supply, because they have a dominant position. (Frankly if a court decides they are in fact in a dominante position they will look at their current actions even less favorably)

With your logic Intel should go back to demanding HP Dell and every other OEM no longer sell AMD in anything higher end. I mean that wasn't ruled illegal already or anything. Or perhaps MS should use their market dominance to demand OEMs only ship high end PCs with windows on them... I mean that couldn't possibly land them in court right ?
 
ChadD said:
How would a company feel if they used a trademarked name ??? That isn't even close to the same thing.

Asus buys parts from Nvida that is their relationship. Nvidia is a supplier... Asus is Nvidias customer. Not their competition.

Ford using a trademarked name ... or MS releasing iWindows devices. Is not even remotely the same thing.

Nvidia doesn't own a brand trademarked by another company, simply because they sell them a part... Royals Royce doesn't demand brand names from Boeing even if their engines are the most important part of the plane. They can't demand ownership of their customers trademarks on threat of slowing or cutting off supply, because they have a dominant position. (Frankly if a court decides they are in fact in a dominante position they will look at their current actions even less favorably)

With your logic Intel should go back to demanding HP Dell and every other OEM no longer sell AMD in anything higher end. I mean that wasn't ruled illegal already or anything. Or perhaps MS should use their market dominance to demand OEMs only ship high end PCs with windows on them... I mean that couldn't possibly land them in court right ?
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I didn't say it was the same thing, I said it was the same principle.

Nvidia is claiming the rights to those brands, and giving the AIBs a choice: Either give them exclusivity, or don't join GPP and suffer the consequences. They are suggesting that if AMD shares the same brands then it degrades Nvidia's name. If the AIBs disagree, they simply don't join GPP. And we already know that's not an option. Nvidia is the Corvette, the AIBs know it, and Nvidia is forcing their hand.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
I didn't say it was the same thing, I said it was the same principle.

Nvidia is claiming ownership of those brands, and giving the AIBs a choice: Either give them exclusive rights to the brand, or don't join GPP and suffer the consequences. They are suggesting that if AMD shares the same brands then it degrades Nvidia's branding. If the AIBs disagree, they simply don't join GPP.
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No it is NOT even close to the same principle. Frankly that is a completely silly argument... and silly is me being very kind.

The way you just described it join us or suffer... is actually the text book description of Extortion .

I don't know perhaps I'm just reading your posts wrong and they are all just sarcasm ? Wouldn't be the first time I read such things wrong. If I have add a /s
 
I currently have Intel and Nvidia in my gaming system... which frankly isn't much of a gaming system since I can't play anything newer than say 2014 without dropping all settings. But with the BS both companies have done, I'm definitely not buying anything with their parts inside from now on.
 
First, I'm a straight up NV fanboy. I have nothing against AMD, but I've used NV products since riva tnt days.

What NVidia is doing with the GPP is unconscionable. If they don't pull a 180 on this program my next GPU will be AMD.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Nvidia would tell you it's not about them claiming ownership of the brand, but making sure they don't share the brand with AMD.
Corvette is a popular sports car from Chevy, how would they feel if Ford released their own sports car called "Corvette"? Same principle. Nvidia is using their market dominance to say they have the rights to those brands, and the AIBs are agreeing.
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You not understanding the entire situation is showing.
 
Darth Kyrie said:
I think he wants you to release the proof you have so that your contact can get in trouble.
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I don't care what he releases, I was citing his own words in his own article. If he wants to refute himself, he can do that and I will edit my post. :p
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
I don't care what he releases, I was citing his own words in his own article. If he wants to refute himself, he can do that and I will edit my post. :p
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Thanks for your input. I am sure it has been of great value to many.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
You mean Nvidia is forcing their partners to abandon AMD products on their established gaming brands and use new labels with no brand recognition, which hurts their sales? And Nvidia gets to stay on the established brands, which will push more customers to buy their GPUs? Yes I fully understand the situation. It's not complex.

The alternative way of looking at it is that Nvidia doesn't want to share brands with "inferior" products (in their eyes). One could argue that AMD is leeching off the success that Nvidia has built for ROG, Gaming X, Aorus, etc.
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You do know the first RoG product was an AMD based one right? I see why Dell and HP won't join. Last time they let a company do this they had to deal with all sorts of court battles and it weakened their positions. Dell on top of that paid an arm and a leg of actual cash on Alienware back in the day. They aren't just going to let a company dictate how they use it. But that's the point RoG is much bigger than video cards. It's a whole product line of things from monitors, to motherboards, to routers (got an RoG router a month before this began). These didn't build up on Nvidia products. Hell most except the Gaming X started on motherboards to begin with and it's only been 2 gens since AMD took a dive in "ulta-high end gaming" because regardless of peoples opinion's the 480/580 have been more than good enough from 1080-4k, just not all the time on everything on Ultra. Not enough for AMD to some how spoil Nvidia's name on product lines that aren't theirs. Both have made products, that they sold to these companies, that these companies have used in the past to legitimize their brands. Nvidia has had it's share of stinkers without anyone crying foul about how Nvidia's chips in RoG products devalued AMD's own products in the brand.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
My point is this (my gut feeling, fwiw): nVidia may make the fastest card, but the AMD offerings provide a *better* experience overall.
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Funny you mentioned that, it reminded me of past conversations with a friend, whom he used to swear that the image quality of Matrox was absolute and only ATI, on those days, was able to match them.

Personally, I just replaced a Quadro for a Radeon Pro at work and cant tell the difference, image quality wise, but I can say this, drivers wise, the system stability improved considerably.

I was having weird graphic driver crashes on a daily basis, which are gone now.

Oh, and it looks like a million bucks!

Uan4VDm.jpg
 
Geforce belongs to Nvidia. Radeon belongs to AMD. ROG belongs to ASUS.
Nvidia says give me ROG or you get to be a bottom feeder on our chips/tech.
That's how I am seeing this and I don't think I am wrong.
Nvidia is using its market share to coerce or force the AIB's to do as Nvidia wants or they will get little to no support, including less chips to make cards.
Using a position of strength like this is pushing into a monopoly.
 
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