Nvidia telling retailers to stop selling to miners.

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Shintai said:
European shops have openly said they have denied huge GPU sales to some miners.

You know, selling 100000 cards to one mining customer isn´t going to help your business in the future. Selling 1 card to 100000 customers is. But hey, short term vs long term investment in your customer base I guess ;)
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That's just a way to make MORE money, not less money. They want to sell a full rig for every videocard they sell. They don't just want 100000 videocard sales, they want 100000 full pc sales, a videocard, motherboard, ram, hard drive, case, power supply, and led fans for all those kids that get off on colored lights. They are still selling the videocards for bullshit prices, but instead of selling them all to 1 customer, they are trying to get the more complete 'sale', or in business terms, upsell the customer from a videocard to a full pc. They aren't turning away any money, they are just making better sales decisions with their inventory. Think of it as black friday door busters, sell some bullshit tv for 30 dollars and get a thousand people in your store buying all sorts of items they didn't really need.
 
I just wish gamers would stop trying to buy GPU's, and either get a PS4 or find another hobby so some of us miners could actually get a few hundred more cards.

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Ok, sure NVIDIA. Mining has boosted their business so much.
 
Mining is more productive for society than gaming. Playing games where you practice killing people produces nothing (not that I'm against this, I've done plenty of this myself) whereas mining produces a secure transaction network completely out of the reach of corrupt governments and corporate interests...

Which one does society benefit more from? Ask the miners living in Venezuela.

One caveat here: I've long felt that mining should be attached to medical research like folding@home and things like that.... this would be even more beneficial to society.
 
pillagenburn said:
mining produces a secure transaction network completely out of the reach of corrupt governments and corporate interests...
.
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Yeah, you can't have it both ways. Eventually those funds you mined, are going to be used to purchase products sold by those "corporate interests" used inside of those "corrupt governments". But what ever helps you sleep at night. :)
 
pillagenburn said:
Mining is more productive for society than gaming. Playing games where you practice killing people produces nothing (not that I'm against this, I've done plenty of this myself) whereas mining produces a secure transaction network completely out of the reach of corrupt governments and corporate interests...

Which one does society benefit more from? Ask the miners living in Venezuela.

One caveat here: I've long felt that mining should be attached to medical research like folding@home and things like that.... this would be even more beneficial to society.
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totally agree with the medical part but what are the miners actually doing? what are they crunching numbers for? they could be doing Dr evil type things and we don't even know, thats one thing I never got...
 
Krenum said:
Yeah, you can't have it both ways. Eventually those funds you mined, are going to be used to purchase products sold by those "corporate interests" used inside of those "corrupt governments". But what ever helps you sleep at night. :)
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The point is that they will be doing of this in a system of exchange that they can't game to the detriment of the masses, that they can't print currency to the detriment of the masses and that they can't otherwise steal from the masses for their own personal gain.

And yet while all of this goes on, blowing people away in a virtual world will still produce nothing.
 
pendragon1 said:
totally agree with the medical part but what are the miners actually doing? what are they crunching numbers for? they could be doing Dr evil type things and we don't even know, thats one thing I never got...
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Mining is simply processing transactions in a secure format/fashion.. you basically take a transaction, verify/validate/secure it using an algorithm and add it to the ledger (blockchain). I'm sure transactions from bad guys happen all the time using crypto.... but then transactions from bad guys happen all the time using USD, Yuan, Yen, Gold, Euros, credit cards, money orders and any other form of value transfer mechanism on the planet..... credit card fraud, anyone?

In case anyone out there doubts that US Dollars are used when committing crimes, I have photo proof:

http://static.neatorama.com/images/2007-03/cash-seizure.jpg

Edit: I just realized there are a couple other currencies in there too! We need to figure out what they are and stop them from being used, immediately!
 
I'm wasn't doubting that cash is also used illegally, isn't the US dollar still the preferred $ for illegal trade? what I don't get is what the "transactions" are.
 
pendragon1 said:
I'm wasn't doubting that cash is also used illegally, isn't the US dollar still the preferred $ for illegal trade? what I don't get is what the "transactions" are.
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transactions are if a coin is bought or sold, if a person uses bitcoin to buy another currency or cashed out, those are transactions. If someone buys Bitcoin using $ that is a transaction. If you buy litecoin with bitcoins, those are transactions. Pretty much if a coin transfers hands its a transaction. Those transactions must be validated, the accounts must be validated. If they aren't validated, who is to say, I used 1 bitcoin to buy x number of other coins? That one bitcoin must go from my account to another account, or vice versa.
 
oh so all the crypto coins are "verifying" each others "transactions" and that's where the magic money comes from?!
 
pendragon1 said:
oh so all the crypto coins are "verifying" each others "transactions" and that's where the magic money comes from?!
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Crypto like any currency is primarily valuable due to the desire of peoples to posses said currency. The confidence and demand people place in the currencies is what sets it's value. The idea of crypto currencies today may seem foreign, but with the blockchains and other networks of decentralized computing that are sprouting up, new innovations could leverage the compute power for all sorts of applications. Think Google, and other PC farms, but instead of centralized they're spread out across all computers whose owners opt in to the chain. If every phone, laptop, tablet, etc. you own lent some of it's processing power to a blockchain and everyone you knew did, what kind of power could be leveraged when you weren't using the devices? Millions of devices would provide huge redundancy as well.
 
pendragon1 said:
oh so all the crypto coins are "verifying" each others "transactions" and that's where the magic money comes from?!
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any time a crypto is sent from one account to another :). And it doesn't even need to be crypto, it can be anything that changes hands.
 
Sherloc09 said:
Crypto like any currency is primarily valuable due to the desire of peoples to posses said currency. The confidence and demand people place in the currencies is what sets it's value. The idea of crypto currencies today may seem foreign, but with the blockchains and other networks of decentralized computing that are sprouting up, new innovations could leverage the compute power for all sorts of applications. Think Google, and other PC farms, but instead of centralized they're spread out across all computers whose owners opt in to the chain. If every phone, laptop, tablet, etc. you own lent some of it's processing power to a blockchain and everyone you knew did, what kind of power could be leveraged when you weren't using the devices? Millions of devices would provide huge redundancy as well.
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Skynet lol.
 
Sherloc09 said:
Crypto like any currency is primarily valuable due to the desire of peoples to posses said currency. The confidence and demand people place in the currencies is what sets it's value. The idea of crypto currencies today may seem foreign, but with the blockchains and other networks of decentralized computing that are sprouting up, new innovations could leverage the compute power for all sorts of applications. Think Google, and other PC farms, but instead of centralized they're spread out across all computers whose owners opt in to the chain. If every phone, laptop, tablet, etc. you own lent some of it's processing power to a blockchain and everyone you knew did, what kind of power could be leveraged when you weren't using the devices? Millions of devices would provide huge redundancy as well.
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and just magically make money out of nothing?
 
pendragon1 said:
and just magically make money out of nothing?
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No can't make money out of nothing. Mining a coin is like printing money. If supply is too high to meet demand, then prices of the coin go down. If demand drops, the price drops. Cryptocurrancies are based on the same economic principles as fiat money, but supply is much much lower because mining them can only be done at a certain pace. The value of cryptocurrancy is not the coin its the value and trust of the block chain. This is why prices fluctuate so much. If ya only have 1 of something vs 10 of something, and demand of that 1 piece increases, its price is going to go up at a faster rate.

Lets take for example, Bitcoin so far its block chain has never been hacked, its trust is high, so its value is high (also demand for it is there too). Lets take ether. Ether has been hacked once, and this is why Ether's blockchain evolved with its fist hard fork, which created Ether classic, and the new Ether which used a modified algorithm. The new Ether algo, helped with security and helped with building trust, as the people that lost ether to begin with were "reimbursed", well not really reimbursed but the blockchain was reverted back to prior to the hack.

Now many other coins have had hard forks too, Bitcoin recently had a 4 or 5, not all of them do well. Any new coin based off of a fork, still has to prove it self and its blockchain.
 
pillagenburn said:
Mining is simply processing transactions in a secure format/fashion.. you basically take a transaction, verify/validate/secure it using an algorithm and add it to the ledger (blockchain). I'm sure transactions from bad guys happen all the time using crypto.... but then transactions from bad guys happen all the time using USD, Yuan, Yen, Gold, Euros, credit cards, money orders and any other form of value transfer mechanism on the planet..... credit card fraud, anyone?

In case anyone out there doubts that US Dollars are used when committing crimes, I have photo proof:

http://static.neatorama.com/images/2007-03/cash-seizure.jpg

Edit: I just realized there are a couple other currencies in there too! We need to figure out what they are and stop them from being used, immediately!
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No, it isn't. If that's all mining was there's no way you'd need gpus to do it, the processing of that is trivial computationally. There's a massive math problem tacked on the end to make mining progressively more difficult to meter out the currency. It's completely wasted math, nobody does anything with the result which is why mining is such a complete and total waste.
 
bobzdar said:
No, it isn't. If that's all mining was there's no way you'd need gpus to do it, the processing of that is trivial computationally. There's a massive math problem tacked on the end to make mining progressively more difficult to meter out the currency. It's completely wasted math, nobody does anything with the result which is why mining is such a complete and total waste.
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It's not a waste. A 'waste' implies that nothing comes from it. Something does come from it.... and that something is a level of scarcity. Albeit artificial, this mechanism of scarcity is still a vastly more honest way of currency creation than in any fiat system. Also this mechanism is vastly harder to game.
 
bobzdar said:
No, it isn't. If that's all mining was there's no way you'd need gpus to do it, the processing of that is trivial computationally. There's a massive math problem tacked on the end to make mining progressively more difficult to meter out the currency. It's completely wasted math, nobody does anything with the result which is why mining is such a complete and total waste.
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Its not "easy" math, as the blockchain gets bigger, that is where the problems come in, cause ya need to have the processing power to be able to analyze the blockchain to find the transactions. The blockchain is based off of a complex algorithm. This is why block chain difficulty gets more as more transactions are being done and as more computational power is available to the blockchain. Again crypto currency is the side affect of the block chain. Damn they don't even need to pay out in crypto if they don't want to. Lets say the block chain was made to track properties or stocks. The still need to pay out with something, they could pay out in fiat money if they wanted to. The value of crypto is not the coin, its the blockchain.

Think of the blockchain as an accountants ledger book that is distributed across the world. Lets say that accountant's ledger tracks the Dow Jones. See the value of the block chain? Its value is the entirety of all the stocks on the Dow Jones lol.
 
razor1 said:
Its not "easy" math, as the blockchain gets bigger, that is where the problems come in, cause ya need to have the processing power to be able to analyze the blockchain to find the transactions. The blockchain is based off of a complex algorithm. This is why block chain difficulty gets more as more transactions are being done and as more computational power is available to the blockchain. Again crypto currency is the side affect of the block chain. Damn they don't even need to pay out in crypto if they don't want to. Lets say the block chain was made to track properties or stocks. The still need to pay out with something, they could pay out in fiat money if they wanted to. The value of crypto is not the coin, its the blockchain.

Think of the blockchain as an accountants ledger book that is distributed across the world. Lets say that accountant's ledger tracks the Dow Jones. See the value of the block chain? Its value is the entirety of all the stocks on the Dow Jones lol.
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The block chain is trivial computationally, that is not what mining is.
 
bobzdar said:
The block chain is trivial computationally, that is not what mining is.
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Yeah it is, the longer the block chain the more computational power ya need to find the transactions.

https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/blockchain-scalability

The tendency toward centralization with a growing blockchain: the larger the blockchain grows, the larger the requirements become for storage, bandwidth, and computational power that must be spent by “full nodes” in the network, leading to a risk of much higher centralization if the blockchain becomes large enough that only a few nodes are able to process a block.
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So far this has happened to all blockchain tech.....
 
razor1 said:
Yeah it is, the longer the block chain the more computational power ya need to find the transactions.

https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/blockchain-scalability



So far this has happened to all blockchain tech.....
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That's the idea behind blockchain, but not how crypto is implemented. You don't need gpus or asics to to keep the ledger, there is no hashing or other compute necessary for maintaining the blockchain. That is used purely as an artificial difficulty ('scarcity', as above) to meter out the currency.
 
bobzdar said:
That's the idea behind blockchain, but not how crypto is implemented. You don't need gpus or asics to to keep the ledger, there is no hashing or other compute necessary for maintaining the blockchain. That is used purely as an artificial difficulty ('scarcity', as above) to meter out the currency.
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That is true. Difficulty and scarcity are two different things. Rewards for blocks finding and block finding are two different things. As the block chain gets longer its harder to find the block, this is difficulty, rewards for blocks are arbitrary and are set up by the creators of the blockchain to maintain scarcity.
 
bobzdar said:
That's the idea behind blockchain, but not how crypto is implemented. You don't need gpus or asics to to keep the ledger, there is no hashing or other compute necessary for maintaining the blockchain. That is used purely as an artificial difficulty ('scarcity', as above) to meter out the currency.
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Exactly. So this math isn't purely wasted, it provides metering functions to the currency and provides the "artificial scarcity."

I've heard economists complain about artificial scarcity, but think about fiat systems. What determines the scarcity here? A guy with a keyboard who is appointed by a corrupt political system.
 
cageymaru said:
NVidia Ampere rumor mill: GP102 production already discontinued, GA104 since February in production and launch on April 12th.
https://www.3dcenter.org/news/nvidi...eits-eingestellt-ga104-seit-februar-produktio

Stop panicking! New cards are on the way! (If you believe it to be true.)
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The problem is with my or with anyone people have money to burn and they can't wait.
I think people have a increased rate of hyper sensitivity to the thing since the Bit Coin miners just whore the things.

Because nothing else is happening in their life :artist::wtf:
 
They also ramp up processing power to prevent a 51% processing hack...that's essentially if someone has more than half the processing power they can control the direction of the blockchain "forks" which occur all the time actually.
 
I find mining interesting on how it affects everything. These are interesting times we are living in!
 
What the FUCK is this mining?! What the hell is going on. I needed a GPU for my office work station and the dude at Microcenter was lookin at me like I asked him for a pound of cocaine.

Christ I leave the forums for a year and the whole world goes insane.

I don’t get how anyone makes money after all the heat and power is used. And how do you link all these cards together even I couldn’t even get two 980s working in SLI.
 
Blackstone said:
Christ I leave the forums for a year and the whole world goes insane.

I don’t get how anyone makes money after all the heat and power is used. And how do you link all these cards together even I couldn’t even get two 980s working in SLI.
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I hear you man. Tried playing Kingdom Come Deliverance tonight with 12x1080Ti SLI and the Rockband drumset. It went ok.

IMG_20180214_140727326~2.jpg
 
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And there is actually return on investment for running that? After the cost of the cards and the electricity?

I am such a geezer.
 
RPKYGK said:
They should just lock the TDP at 250W on a gamers series of cards. With one in my case I could care less about that but I'm sure miners using 100's wouldn't like it.
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That won't do shit. Most people mining lower the power target as it is. If anything it'll affect gamers more than anyone else.
 
razor1 said:
Heh ever try to buy a Mercedes with a new body style on the first day? 10k above MSRP is not uncommon :), just idiots lining up to pay top dollar for the same thing for less if they had the patience.
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What year do you think we're in exactly?
 
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