Bitcoin - What Goes Up Must Come Down

Bitcoin will be on the way out. It's old and inefficient. Others will take over eventually.

Proof of stake and hybrids also help to address the energy concerns. Which are just a bunch of hysterics anyway. It's not a problem now and we don't know for sure that it will be down the road.

As for quantum computing it is a legit concern. There are some projects trying to develop quantum resistance however it remains to be seen what will come of that.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
4000 transactions a month unusual for a business or broker? Of course not. Are they doing that by hand? No. Is that their day job? Mostly yes.
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Some small businesses do indeed do it by hand and when I was trading I did it by hand. That amount is not a big deal to do. Only a few extra minutes each day if you do it right.

If you wait until the end of the year and let it all pile up for tax time yeah it'll take a while. But its still not a big deal. Even if you're a total typing/spreadsheet noob + are slow in general and only document 50 transactions a hour you'll do 400 transactions every 8hr so it'll take you 10 days to do it all. Do a hour a day and a weekend or 2 and you'll have it all done in a month. Well before taxes are finally due.

And that is if your'e slow. If you're fast you can easily get it done in a few days. If you're real fast you can do it all in a long day. This is real simple and basic book keeping and data entry you're complaining about here. Anyone who can type can do it.
 
Ill give it another try. It would be better if the pools let you control payouts. Most don't unfortunately.
 
mesyn191 said:
"A lot" is a meaningless platitude. For instance: 1,000 people is "a lot" but that is nothing compared to 100,000 or 1,000,000. What matters here is what the vast overwhelming majority of people are doing with buttcoins. IOW market actions.

People by and large are treating it and trading it as if it was a stock + the real world practical connection any of the buttcoins have is tenuous at best so any attempts to portray buttcoins as currency are strained at best.


What???

Blockchain is decentralized and "public" but slow and energy intensive bookkeeping. THAT IS ALL IT IS!!

What real world issues exactly does something like that solve vs existing bookkeeping methods? And be specific. The best application I can think of for something like that is electronic title insurance management and even for something like that blockchain wouldn't be much more useful or better than existing methods for that purpose so why switch??
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Security, primarily. Imagine for instance a blockchain for medical records. Such a system is immune from tampering/manipulation, and would always be available to responders and doctors. It's not centralized, so it's immune from DDoS type attacks. Lives would be saved.

We could also be using public chains to vote. Again, same benefits. Tampering is a thing of the past.

In this information age, battles are being fought on the internet. How can you possibly not see the value in systems which are immune? If you're too dense that's fine, I'll be the richer guy laughing at you.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
I'm going to neither laugh or cry, but shake my head at people whom think "They are earning that money for nothing."
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Who is earning money for nothing? If you want to make good money at mining it needs work, planning and a lot of time and effort.
 
reaper12 said:
Who is earning money for nothing? If you want to make good money at mining it needs work, planning and a lot of time and effort.
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Oh there's effort into it. What Can I do with it the second someone else won't exchange cash for it? Absolutely nothing. True its a problem with all currency except for now in the US the official currency is legal tender and must be accepted for exchange. Bitcoin doesn't even have that.

But for the effort nothing usable is produced in return. So it's not a commodity like gold or a service. So resources are being consumed and nothing tangible is obtained in return.
 
mesyn191 said:
What???

Blockchain is decentralized and "public" but slow and energy intensive bookkeeping. THAT IS ALL IT IS!!

What real world issues exactly does something like that solve vs existing bookkeeping methods? And be specific. The best application I can think of for something like that is electronic title insurance management and even for something like that blockchain wouldn't be much more useful or better than existing methods for that purpose so why switch??
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Supply chains, transaction management, asset management, the list goes on. Look up Walmart for an example.
 
reaper12 said:
Supply chains, transaction management, asset management, the list goes on. Look up Walmart for an example.
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In practice private internal blockchains are generally more expensive than a regular database. On top of that, since all of the hardware is centralized at the company you aren't really protected from internal manipulation or hacking like a public chain.

It can make sense in certain situations. I read Walmart and a few other companies were/are trying it in China as a new potential method for tracking fresh meat products.
 
celeron300 said:
Cryptos are the future of money, decentralized / capped number of coins available. If you haven't seen volatility before ( like the DJIA / Nasdaq/ etc) its because they aren't REAL markets. They are high frequency trading algorithims controlled daily. So buy the dip while its on sale folks. BTC will go above 40k this year.
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Curious as to why you think this.

lot of people jumped off window ledges in 1929 with this very attitude.
 
xrealm20 said:
Well, the dow is down 600 points today too because of the Fed, so just not a good day for investors period ;)
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I don't think you can call the state of Crypto now "Investing" Speculation perhaps.

Trying to compare and link the Stock market with crypto prices is futile.
 
reaper12 said:
He wont care, he is more than likely buying those cards with money he made already from mining. Then he still has all those cards that he made a profit on already. You are laughing at a guy who is going to end up well ahead of the game no matter what happens. Well done.

People have been proclaiming the death of mining for 9 years now, isn't time to for you people to start realising that it isn't going away.
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Syphilis isn't going away either, and it's fun to catch. doesn't mean it's really good for you in the long run. Just ask Al Capone, drove him crazy to!
 
motomonkey said:
I don't think you can call the state of Crypto now "Investing" Speculation perhaps.

Trying to compare and link the Stock market with crypto prices is futile.
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Link, no... Compare, not really.

Think about it more this way. Both are influenced by things that are outside of the control of the "fund / asset / stock / commodity". And when I say its a bad day for investors, the US based stock markets losing ~2% is a shitload more money than bitcoin being worth zero.

$21.3 Trillion x 2% = $426 Billion
Total bitcoin market cap = $155 Billion
Total crypto market cap = $449 Billion
 
Imhotep said:
Haha, this is getting even better. We are getting the environmentalists involved as well. Let me ask you. How do you contribute to the society by overclocking your CPU, GPU and memory for a few extra frames ?
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So you don't see a difference between someone taking 20 gallons of fuel and riding a jetski around a lake compared to someone taking 20 gallons of fuel and dumping it in a barrel to watch it burn? They're just "hobbies" to you? LMAO
 
tacos4me said:
Security, primarily.
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Why and how is blockchain any more secure than a server with encrypted data and with a few backups of that data?

tacos4me said:
Such a system is immune from tampering/manipulation, and would always be available to responders and doctors. It's not centralized, so it's immune from DDoS type attacks. Lives would be saved.
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LOL no its not. You don't know what you're talking about. Plenty of buttcoins and their exchanges have been hacked and robbed and the coins themselves manipulated by those who control a majority of the blockchain data itself.

Medical data isn't something that is going to be generally DDoS'd and even if it was its trivial to harden against a DDoS attack since most servers that handle the PHI are already set to be resistant to that sort of thing by default since they have contracts with the ISP's for DDoS protection. You also don't need blockchain to decentralize anything either.

tacos4me said:
We could also be using public chains to vote. Again, same benefits. Tampering is a thing of the past.
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Nope. Its not any more secure than paper voting either by mail or in person and those at least leave a proper paper trail. E-voting machines and their results can be easily encrypted as needed too. You don't need blockchain for any of that and blockchain won't offer any advantages over either option since its so slow and power intensive to use.

reaper12 said:
Supply chains, transaction management, asset management, the list goes on. Look up Walmart for an example.
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Geez all you people have are these ridiculously vague and crappy claims. You don't understand a single thing about any possible benefits if you don't at least try to acknowledge and address how slow and energy intensive blockchain is to use.

Walmart/IBM's "blockchain" isn't actually blockchain at all. They're using centralized (following a hub model like Stellar) servers to improve speed and power efficiency and all the hype about them using blockchain is just to sucker idiot investors looking for a quick buck.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
You make it sound so easy to just note the date and time and then look up the value. FOUR THOUSAND times. Manually done. That is an assload of work. There is no automation and no reporting it would have to be done twelve times each day.

Not even remotely worth it. I'm not even trading either just mining.

Not every country is taxing this as income either. Not every state has sales tax and some that do have exempt transactions. You know that of course.
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It does truly suck. What I would do is do it the best you can and hope you don't get audited. Simply take the time to do it, as really at this point you have to. I am in the same boat, not really too many transactions for me and they are all in the wallet software. All you have to do is look up the historical price data. There are some businesses that allow you to upload the stuff from exchanges to automate it, but you have to pay for that.

It does suck that the IRS just stayed out of it for a long time and then all the sudden there are all these rules. All crypto people are dealing with this, it's a royal pain, but the saying is "Only thing sure in life is death and taxes".
 
I tried his suggestion today and I'm caught up. Was a pita but not impossible. From now on I'll stay caught up on the spreadsheet.

What something is worth is what someone is willing to give you for it. If someone pays 10 grand for a BTC then it's worth 10 grand.

As far as burning fuel in a drum or a jet ski goes both are the same. None of your business.
 
mesyn191 said:
Why and how is blockchain any more secure than a server with encrypted data and with a few backups of that data?


LOL no its not. You don't know what you're talking about. Plenty of buttcoins and their exchanges have been hacked and robbed and the coins themselves manipulated by those who control a majority of the blockchain data itself.

Medical data isn't something that is going to be generally DDoS'd and even if it was its trivial to harden against a DDoS attack since most servers that handle the PHI are already set to be resistant to that sort of thing by default since they have contracts with the ISP's for DDoS protection. You also don't need blockchain to decentralize anything either.


Nope. Its not any more secure than paper voting either by mail or in person and those at least leave a proper paper trail. E-voting machines and their results can be easily encrypted as needed too. You don't need blockchain for any of that and blockchain won't offer any advantages over either option since its so slow and power intensive to use.


Geez all you people have are these ridiculously vague and crappy claims. You don't understand a single thing about any possible benefits if you don't at least try to acknowledge and address how slow and energy intensive blockchain is to use.

Walmart/IBM's "blockchain" isn't actually blockchain at all. They're using centralized (following a hub model like Stellar) servers to improve speed and power efficiency and all the hype about them using blockchain is just to sucker idiot investors looking for a quick buck.
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And yet, despite all this companies like Microsoft, IBM, Intel, Visa are all investing heavily in Blockchain.

It's only in the very beginning of it's life. Are there issues to be solved, yes of course there are. Don't think anyone is denying that.
 
reaper12 said:
Who is earning money for nothing? If you want to make good money at mining it needs work, planning and a lot of time and effort.
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Blah ha ha... You think that's work?

You just need an initial outlay to get equipment and half day of research.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
Blah ha ha... You think that's work?

You just need an initial outlay to get equipment and half day of research.
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Ha ha, I don't know, I'm curious how far the blood, sweat, and tears angle can be taken to describe cryptocurrency mining.
 
tacos4me said:
Security, primarily. Imagine for instance a blockchain for medical records. Such a system is immune from tampering/manipulation, and would always be available to responders and doctors. It's not centralized, so it's immune from DDoS type attacks. Lives would be saved.

We could also be using public chains to vote. Again, same benefits. Tampering is a thing of the past.

In this information age, battles are being fought on the internet. How can you possibly not see the value in systems which are immune? If you're too dense that's fine, I'll be the richer guy laughing at you.
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you've smoked the pipe for far too long.
 
opfreak said:
you've smoked the pipe for far too long.
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It's not like these are actual projects currently underway or anything...

Do your research. You might be surprised.

Most of you are butthurt your graphics cards aren't available at the corner store @ MSRP, therefore crypto is the devil, so I'm sure you won't.
 
tacos4me said:
It's not like these are actual projects currently underway or anything...

Do your research. You might be surprised.

Most of you are butthurt your graphics cards aren't available at the corner store @ MSRP, therefore crypto is the devil, so I'm sure you won't.
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We could be driving flying cars now to, but turns out it's to much effort to develop one for no real gain.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean it should be done, or the best way to do it.
 
motomonkey said:
We could be driving flying cars now to, but turns out it's to much effort to develop one for no real gain.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean it's should be done, or the best way to do it.
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So I'm sure all the fortune 500 companies investing heavily in the tech must be smoking the pipe too, huh?

Ok. Time will tell, bud. I'll keep my horses in the race, thanks.
 
tetris42 said:
Ha ha, I don't know, I'm curious how far the blood, sweat, and tears angle can be taken to describe cryptocurrency mining.
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One of my 12 card AMD rigs in Windows 10, (I was an early adopter to try the 12 card thing) had a lot of problems. Intermittently bad risers mostly, bad firmware?, bad drivers, unstable wattman settings, faulty motherboard? and I seriously spent over a hundred hours troubleshooting that particular rig to get it stable. My wife actually cried because I was spending so much time on crypto. (Every night after work the entire night till 1 or 2 am and all weekend both days for about three weeks total). I admittedly can get pretty intense and tunnel visioned when working on a project. So yeah, I can see that angle. I got it stable, but by that time I was sick of AMD drivers and lack of tool support like MSI afterburner (Wattman sucks - settings don’t hold and it’s so slow when working with 12 cards in windows) so I sold all the AMD cards to help appease my wife. Nvidia is about 5% the administration maintenance of AMD on windows based systems when you undervolt and overclock. Anyway — yeah that rig got my “blood, sweat, and tears”
 
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tacos4me said:
So I'm sure all the fortune 500 companies investing heavily in the tech must be smoking the pipe too, huh?

Ok. Time will tell, bud. I'll keep my horses in the race, thanks.
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so exactly what horse do you have in this race? are you invested in a company developing blockchain transaction technology? If you are (and anyone for that matter) making money mining, that's great. but mining means fuck all for using blockchain for other purposes.
 
tacos4me said:
It's not like these are actual projects currently underway or anything...

Do your research. You might be surprised.

Most of you are butthurt your graphics cards aren't available at the corner store @ MSRP, therefore crypto is the devil, so I'm sure you won't.
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oh look a true believer. Blockchain can be useful for a few things. But true believers think its a solution for all sorts of issues.

Just because a big company is looking into it, doesn't mean shit.
 
motomonkey said:
are you invested in a company developing blockchain transaction technology?
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I am. Decentralized applications have a future.
opfreak said:
oh look a true believer. Blockchain can be useful for a few things. But true believers think its a solution for all sorts of issues.

Just because a big company is looking into it, doesn't mean shit.
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You admit yourself it's useful. Nobody is trying to pretend the technology is perfect, but it clearly shows potential. What's the harm in moving foward?
 
tacos4me said:
I am. Decentralized applications have a future.

You admit yourself it's useful. Nobody is trying to pretend the technology is perfect, but it clearly shows potential. What's the harm in moving foward?
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You sound like a noob when you make claims that blockchain is a solution for everything under the sun.
 
tacos4me said:
Security, primarily. Imagine for instance a blockchain for medical records. Such a system is immune from tampering/manipulation, and would always be available to responders and doctors. It's not centralized, so it's immune from DDoS type attacks. Lives would be saved.

We could also be using public chains to vote. Again, same benefits. Tampering is a thing of the past.

In this information age, battles are being fought on the internet. How can you possibly not see the value in systems which are immune? If you're too dense that's fine, I'll be the richer guy laughing at you.
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Until as a patient loses the key.

I can see it used to track country of origin where it's critical. Ie: you don't want to purchase blood diamonds.
 
tacos4me said:
It's not like these are actual projects currently underway or anything...

Do your research. You might be surprised.

Most of you are butthurt your graphics cards aren't available at the corner store @ MSRP, therefore crypto is the devil, so I'm sure you won't.
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I could give a rat tails less about card prices. I have no dog in the game.
 
opfreak said:
oh look a true believer. Blockchain can be useful for a few things. But true believers think its a solution for all sorts of issues.

Just because a big company is looking into it, doesn't mean shit.
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So much hate. So if all big companies and governments had not looked into it that is better? The fact is that you could do an entire write up on governments and companies working to further and implement blockchain that would take you days to even glance through it would be so many pages.
 
triwolf said:
So much hate. So if all big companies and governments had not looked into it that is better? The fact is that you could do an entire write up on governments and companies working to further and implement blockchain that would take you days to even glance through it would be so many pages.
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Man if what I posted is a lot of hate, you must be the worlds biggest snowflake.
 
opfreak said:
Man if what I posted is a lot of hate, you must be the worlds biggest snowflake.
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No, not melting, only hearing negativity from you for crypto. Just stating truth. When you are begging the bank not to charge you 25% interest, don't blame me for trying to get crypto somewhere. Beyond being crapped on by gamers, governments and any yahoo with an opinion, it's amazing crypto hasn't been burned at the stake yet.
 
Decisive break below the 0.618 rally retracement level (~$8900) means the massive rally momentum has been nullified. The CBOE and CME traders did a "great job".

I'd expect crypto renewal in the future, but may be under different leadership imo, akin to how Yahoo search was the big thing in the late 90s, until Google emerged... . (Yahoo search was never that good, compared to Alta Vista, but it got all the buzz back then.)
 
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