AMD is competitive!

To be more specific, I've seen the research done by companies like MSI, Intel and GIGABYTE which shows that the traditional PC has been replaced by a niche system built primarily for gaming and workstation tasks. General computing is done by traditional mobile and tablet devices now. I've worked in the corporate IT world as a contractor for a lot of different companies over a 20 year period. I've seen the trend in large organizations towards mobile devices for more than 10 years now. Corporations typically issue laptops rather than desktops. Server densities have grown to allow more applications to be virtualized. The traditional desktop and server model we knew from the 1990's doesn't really exist anymore. In the home, you won't find too many new OEM machines used for traditional non-performance oriented tasks. When you encounter these machines, they are typically very old.

This is why companies like MSI have rebranded so much hardware around being gaming oriented. They are doing this because it works. Traditional motherboards on the lower end of the spectrum probably see far more sales I China and emerging markets than in the U.S..

Lastly, there is little data for Epyc, because chances are it isn't out there in any kind of serious quantities. I get the impression that OEMs didn't have a massive amount of time to do the type of validation and QVL testing that's normally required to get those products ready for production. Sure, they are out there now, but a lot of companies are going to be leary of them. Many people making IT decisions will go with what they know. Believe it or not, many of the people who make purchasing decisions in data centers and businesses know surprisingly little about computer hardware. They'll buy the brands and models they are used to buying until the OEM steers them towards something else after discontinuing that model.

While I think AMD's lack of presence in the market may have contributed to declining sales in some cases, I think that the overwhelming reason for a reduction in traditional PC sales comes from the proliferation of mobile devices over all other factors. Intel's obviously shifted it's strategies towards mobile and server markets which are in demand. Desktop offerings are either some sort of scaled up mobile CPU or some scaled back server CPU. Both have performance per watt as one of their main selling points. Furthermore, I don't think that Intel's lack of progress has as much to do with AMD as people seem to believe. I think it has to do with the fact that performance per watt improvements are harder to achieve than simple increases in performance.

Intel isn't stupid. It's kept it's prices for the top end of the mainstream segment pretty consistent since the Sandy Bridge days. The HEDT segment has only shown significant price changes on the high end, and really only due to Intel offering higher and higher end commercial silicon from the Xeon line in the Core i7 /i9 families. Intel learned from the Core i7 980X that the only Extreme Editions that sell are the ones that offer something significant that enthusiasts can't get through simple overclocking. That's why it was far more successful than it's successor, and why higher core counts are reserved for those higher end chips.

Intel's done the best that it can regarding IPC and clock speed improvements. If Intel could have brought us 6GHz CPU's with reasonable TDP's and greater IPC while still maintaining it's performance per watt improvements it likely would have. Intel damn well knows that lots of people have stuck with their 2500K and 2600K CPU's due to a lack of performance in subsequent products. This is why they've tried to sell it's CPUs to gamers through various marketing ploys and through platform features. It's not nothing else to entice gamers with. That's why Intel said shit like: "Skylake was built from the ground up for gaming" which we know is highly unlikely to be a completely true statement.

Yes, they've reacted to AMD with a scorched earth type of strategy because it hadn't counted on how good Zen actually was. Zen isn't faster, but it does offer more bang for your buck in a lot of cases. Intel probably wouldn't have released a six core mainstream part were it not for AMD. It wouldn't have released a stupid and nearly useless four core part for it's HEDT motherboards were it not for AMD. Intel almost certainly wouldn't have released anything beyond 10 or 12 cores for the HEDT market without Threadripper either. So yes, Intel does react to the slightest hint of a threat and that's good, but AMD's lack of presence in the market isn't responsible for the decline in PC sales by a huge amount, if at all. It's also not necessarily responsible for Intel's lack of IPC improvements over the years. The need for a raw performance increase over the previous generation hasn't been present on it's own in almost a decade.

I fully go with this.

The debate on Zen and fast comes with caveats, in gaming stock clocks or anything that remains lightly or single threaded AMD can't keep up to the newer Intel stuff, however gaming is no longer traditional, gaming is slowly moving to 4K and gaming is becoming very Twitch/Stream centric and AMD seemed to have factored that into how they designed Zen, perhaps not taking intel on in showdown of clocks and ST performance but rather give enough of that with plenty of resources to focus on new generation stream gaming. The recent runs of streamed gaming shows AMD offering tremendous bang for buck and at 4K gaming almost everything is going to be GPU limited which for gaming is the better scenario. Further how fast AMD is should be assessed on equal clock speed, the common caveat is that Intels clocks are anywhere from 22 to 34% higher than AMD's and that is a massive factor.

In heavy CPU renders AMD remains comfortable even after Coffee lake and its maddening high clocks Zen remains tremendous. Going on Steve Burkes Blender 4N run if calculating Watt seconds of work to complete, the Ryzen 7 1700 is 5% more efficient and 34% faster t han t he 8400 in doing the job despite running more resources.

I reserve AMD recommendations for a certain types of users but its hard to be overlooking AMD like it was for far to long when there was no reason to own a AMD CPU.
 
What annoys me about arguments like you see in threads like this are that even Intel fanboys should be happy about a competitive AMD. AMD being competitive lights a fire under Intel's ass. AMD putting out good chips is good for people that only buy Intel, as long as Intel responds well.

This argument works in the other way also.
 
Since I built both of my machines in March of last year, I have been completely forgetting that prices on ram and video cards are stupid expensive now. Heck, I got my Vega 56 for $469 and even though I could sell if for a hefty profit, I am not going to sell it at all. It says something positive when AMD can gain market share and do better when prices on the other components are stifling those who would build computers but are now waiting until the ram and video card prices come back down.
 
Well then hurry over to the intel forum and get to work spreading the good news, Lord knows they need it after all these security issues that just keep piling up.

What annoys me is that everyone is worried by this massive security flaw except those salivating because believe this flaw will help their favorite brand to sell many more chips than competitors.
 
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I'm not sure the great Intel apostle is going to concede that AMD is gaining market share. AMD is actually losing it in the face of the almighty 8700k according to his daily sermons.

Edit: I told you...see below
 
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I'm not sure the great Intel apostle is going to concede that AMD is gaining market share. AMD is actually losing it in the face of the almighty 8700k according to his daily sermons.

Despite what certain evangelists of the Comeback Church pretend to make us believe, AMD won a minuscule 3% marketshare before CoffeeLake launch and has been loosing marketshare since the launch.

The 8770k continues #1 in sales in Amazon because there are a massive demand for it, and Intel is back to #1 in sales at Mindfactory thanks to CoffeLake.
 
Got no axes to grind,just use AMD.My Zen(Ryzen sounds like a boil) does everything I want.For work or game I am quite happy.A thousand frames per sec.means nothing to my eyes.
 
This argument works in the other way also.
Yeah, except AMD hasn't been quite as good at keeping up. AMD nipping at Intel's heels is much more likely these days than Intel nipping at AMD's.

I was an AMD fanboy. Was. My current build is my first Intel build ever. Ryzen's been tempting me, though.
 
I'm not sure the great Intel apostle is going to concede that AMD is gaining market share. AMD is actually losing it in the face of the almighty 8700k according to his daily sermons.

Edit: I told you...see below

You were right. :D I have him on ignore though so i would not have noticed otherwise. Strange how a paper launch can outsell a physically available item. You cannot sell or buy what you do not have.
 
Despite what certain evangelists of the Comeback Church pretend to make us believe, AMD won a minuscule 3% marketshare before CoffeeLake launch and has been loosing marketshare since the launch.

The 8770k continues #1 in sales in Amazon because there are a massive demand for it, and Intel is back to #1 in sales at Mindfactory thanks to CoffeLake.

You always say things but never proof any of it or use extremely biased data and it does not matter what other people post you keep pretending AMD is the loser here.
 
Yeah, except AMD hasn't been quite as good at keeping up. AMD nipping at Intel's heels is much more likely these days than Intel nipping at AMD's.

My comment wasn't about AMD and Intel but about certain fans behind. I know some people that smiled when RyZen launched but frowned when Intel did launch CoffeeLake.
 
You always say things but never proof any of it or use extremely biased data and it does not matter what other people post you keep pretending AMD is the loser here.

AMD is more competitive with Zen than before it. No one doubt that. But AMD is not so competitive as some pretend to make us believe.

Reports about AMD initially wining 3% marketshare with Zen have been given. Data showing that Intel stole back that marketshare with CofffeLake have been given. Links and snapshots to Intel talking #1 position in Amazon bestelling list has been given. December data from Mindfactory showing Intel is back to #1thanks to CoffeLake has been given. You rejecting all of that because it doesn't fit your preconceived ideas doesn't change anything.
 
AMD is more competitive with Zen than before it. No one doubt that. But AMD is not so competitive as some pretend to make us believe.

Reports about AMD initially wining 3% marketshare with Zen have been given. Data showing that Intel stole back that marketshare with CofffeLake have been given. Links and snapshots to Intel talking #1 position in Amazon bestelling list has been given. December data from Mindfactory showing Intel is back to #1thanks to CoffeLake has been given. You rejecting all of that because it doesn't fit your preconceived ideas doesn't change anything.

I remember you saying that the same Mindfactory data a couple months ago was not useful when it showed AMD as the #1 seller. Now suddenly it's relevant because Intel is the #1 seller? Either you're full of shit (most likely) or your full of shit (just as likely).
 
I remember you saying that the same Mindfactory data a couple months ago was not useful when it showed AMD as the #1 seller. Now suddenly it's relevant because Intel is the #1 seller? Either you're full of shit (most likely) or your full of shit (just as likely).
Don't forget the "Passmark isn't a good indicator of marketshare" when AMD posted huge numbers.
 
Don't forget the "Passmark isn't a good indicator of marketshare" when AMD posted huge numbers.

This is what bugs me. As an AMD fan, I am fully aware of Intel performance and am not insecure about it. I like both but I will only do AMD in my personal builds for personal preferences. Not sure why others feel insecure when
someone speaks well of AMD.
 
My comment wasn't about AMD and Intel but about certain fans behind. I know some people that smiled when RyZen launched but frowned when Intel did launch CoffeeLake.
I would call it 1/2 a launch. You need product to sell for a launch. ;)

AMD is competitive but I think it also has to do with cpu's getting faster and faster. You can get 1000fps but is it really going to help?
I say get what is in your budget.
 
Despite what certain evangelists of the Comeback Church pretend to make us believe, AMD won a minuscule 3% marketshare before CoffeeLake launch and has been loosing marketshare since the launch.

The 8770k continues #1 in sales in Amazon because there are a massive demand for it, and Intel is back to #1 in sales at Mindfactory thanks to CoffeLake.


wait a god damn minute here.

now mindfactory is important cause intel is on top?

i thought

Minfactory.de only reports sales of one store in Germany. Its numbers don't represent wordlwide marketshare.

Wordwide marketshare numbers can be found in the passmark graph and in the Alcorn article. As stated in the Alcorn article. AMD had a desktop marketshare of 9.9% in 4Q16, just before Zen launch, and increased its presence in desktop to about 12.9% (projection) in 4Q17. But those numbers are before CoffeeLake started stooling desktop marketshare from AMD (check passmark graph). Now AMD marketshare is back to pre-Zen time.

what in the fuck?
 
I've seen the trend in large organizations towards mobile devices for more than 10 years now. Corporations typically issue laptops rather than desktops. Server densities have grown to allow more applications to be virtualized. The traditional desktop and server model we knew from the 1990's doesn't really exist anymore. In the home, you won't find too many new OEM machines used for traditional non-performance oriented tasks. When you encounter these machines, they are typically very old.
We ditched all of our desktops at work about 5-6 years ago for T-series ThinkPads acting as glorified, portable thin-clients to Exceed-on-Demand servers.
Laptops were kind of necessary for VPN anyway.
 
wait a god damn minute here.

now mindfactory is important cause intel is on top?

i thought



what in the fuck?

He forgot that for the 6 preceding months AMD outsold Intel in that one retailer alone, imagine all the others not named Amazon lol.
 
I remember you saying that the same Mindfactory data a couple months ago was not useful when it showed AMD as the #1 seller. Now suddenly it's relevant because Intel is the #1 seller? Either you're full of shit (most likely) or your full of shit (just as likely).

wait a god damn minute here.

now mindfactory is important cause intel is on top?

i thought

what in the fuck?

At least Master_shake_ is quoting what I really said about Mindfactory, when fans and click-bait sites used Mindfactory to hype AMD sales and mislead rest of people.

I am not using Mindfactory data to represent wordlwide sales. I am using Mindfactory data only to show how things changed in that Germany store after CoffeeLake launch.

For worldwide sales I am using data from Amazon, Mercury Research, Passmark...

Don't forget the "Passmark isn't a good indicator of marketshare" when AMD posted huge numbers.

You couldn't be more wrong! AMD never posted huge numbers. The Passmark database was cheated the day 1 July as I first mentioned here, and I predicted real value "around 21--22%" once the fluctuation removed completely. Latter I recorded the percentages and made a graph with the daily evolution of the percentage after the 1 July cheating

passmark_cheating-png.29852


The graph continued self-correcting in next days as I reported here and here. Until getting a value of 22.90% the day 28 Jul, which is close to the 21--22% value I had predicted as real.

Passmark can be used, only one has to be careful and check. Moreover, I am not using Passmark as the main indicator of sales. I am using Passmark only as a complement to Amazon, Mercury Research, and others' data.
 
Passmark, the way its meant to be played.

It takes multiple runs into its census which is a random 50%. Intel fanboys be like "to the passmarkopter"

I mean their own disclaimer is that it doesn't represent sales but usage, which includes older CPUs. Bad data for purposes of discussing 2017 marketshare on units sold is the kind of stupid certain special citizens use like a broken record
 
Passmark, the way its meant to be played.

It takes multiple runs into its census which is a random 50%. Intel fanboys be like "to the passmarkopter"

I mean their own disclaimer is that it doesn't represent sales but usage, which includes older CPUs. Bad data for purposes of discussing 2017 marketshare on units sold is the kind of stupid certain special citizens use like a broken record

As explained to you what Passmark shows agrees with the what actual sales reports show.

Also you pretend now that marketshare cannot include old CPUs? So when counting the actual number of units in desktops today, we have to eliminate everything is pre-2017? You are trying really hard to negate reality!


Very elaborate edit of Mindfactory graph that forgets to mention that (i) it only represents sales in one German store, (ii) only counts some CPU models and (iii) it lacks January data.

Let me state a fourth time I am mentioning Mindfactory only to show how Intel is back to #1 also in that store, thanks to CoffeeLake.
 
As explained to you what Passmark shows agrees with the what actual sales reports show.

Also you pretend now that marketshare cannot include old CPUs? So when counting the actual number of units in desktops today, we have to eliminate everything is pre-2017? You are trying really hard to negate reality!



Very elaborate edit of Mindfactory graph that forgets to mention that (i) it only represents sales in one German store, (ii) only counts some CPU models and (iii) it lacks January data.

Let me state a fourth time I am mentioning Mindfactory only to show how Intel is back to #1 also in that store, thanks to CoffeeLake.

True, one store but one store trends tend to carry out throughout, wouldn't be surprised if on a scale by multiple resellers the similar trends will show.

Only counts some? If you look on the right sight there is all the CPU's listed, A pretty extensive list dating to Broadwell E parts, since everything else is EOL.

I see the concept is one you still cannot grasp so ill just let you go play some passmark, spam it 1000 times to register you sandy bridge scores then come post how you boosted the total. How many sandy's et al were sold in 2017? None exactly.
 
No matter if AMD was outselling and 9999x faster than Intel, they would still say Intel is faster.
AMD is doing good and that is good for everybody, even though it may not seem to some people on here.

He shows his true colours on WCCFtech, just follow his discuss, it is like rectum cancer.
 
Sold a lot of 7700k's apparently. the 1800x or Threadripper didn't seem to do very well.
The Pricing was not that competitive though in a lot of places....If Threadripper or the 1800x was more affordable might of considered it. The 1800x isn't much more though and still a good cpu.
 
Let me state a fourth time I am mentioning Mindfactory only to show how Intel is back to #1 also in that store, thanks to CoffeeLake.

If the information was not good earlier, why would it be now. The issue I think most people are having is that if the data point was tainted in the past and you recognized it then, why would you continue to use the same data point source now? I realize that you think that because of example A and example B shows a correction in the chart that it must be correct now, why take the risk in having the possibly corrupted data in the first place?
 
Sold a lot of 7700k's apparently. the 1800x or Threadripper didn't seem to do very well.
The Pricing was not that competitive though in a lot of places....If Threadripper or the 1800x was more affordable might of considered it. The 1800x isn't much more though and still a good cpu.

The 1800X didnt' make sense when the 1700's offered better value, but on December alone 6.2% of AMD's sales were Threadripper, Intel X299 accounted for 6.1%. It is a niche chip as in most cases how many people can actually afford it.
 
No matter if AMD was outselling and 9999x faster than Intel, they would still say Intel is faster.
AMD is doing good and that is good for everybody, even though it may not seem to some people on here.

When AMD RyZen is faster than Intel in POV-Ray or Cinebench this is stated. When AMD RyZen sold more units than Intel and won marketshare. Hey I even compute for you how much marketshare AMD got in 2017.

So you got it backwards. (paraphrasing you) No matter if Intel is outselling and 30% faster than AMD, they would still negate it.
 
True, one store but one store trends tend to carry out throughout, wouldn't be surprised if on a scale by multiple resellers the similar trends will show.

Only counts some?

We already have worldwide sales and don't need your ruminations.

Yes your graph only counts some CPUs. In fact it is ignoring some of the more popular CPUs for sale. If you check Amazon best-selling list, you will find Celerons and Pentiums among the top-ten best selling CPUs. That mindfactory graph is artificially inflating sales for AMD by eliminating popular CPUs from the total count.[/QUOTE]
 
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When AMD RyZen is faster than Intel in POV-Ray or Cinebench this is stated. When AMD RyZen sold more units than Intel and won marketshare. Hey I even compute for you how much marketshare AMD got in 2017.

So you got it backwards. (paraphrasing you) No matter if Intel is outselling and 30% faster than AMD, they would still negate it.
You forgot to minus the up to 30% loss. ;)
 
If the information was not good earlier, why would it be now.

The information was good then and is good now. Simply some people was interpreting the information incorrectly then (some still are).
 
Most likely, since they are cherry picked. :) I am learning the Intel way!

Cinebench, Handbrake, Blender, 7-zip,... is the new definition of cherry picked? I believed cheery picking was mentioning only the pair of cases where the performance hit is larger and then ignoring most cases where it is "negligible".
 
We already have worldwide sales and don't need your ruminations.

Yes your graph only counts some CPUs. In fact it is ignoring some of the more popular CPUs for sale. If you check Amazon best-selling list, you will find Celerons and Pentiums among the top-ten best selling CPUs. That mindfactory graph is artificially inflating sales for AMD by eliminating popular CPUs from the total count.
[/QUOTE]

They do not post sales numbers, just most popular demand for the cycle, and for the first time in 60-80 days Coffee lake has stock, but again Paul Alcorn has covered the trivialities of relying on bad data and making an opinion on it.

Celerons and Pentiums sold so much they can't even make the list. Like that bimbo in high school that thinks she is it and doesn't get a date for prom night, has to settle with the fat kid that collects swords and thinks he is an anime weeaboo. that kind of popularity.

Intel fans be like, Im going to get a celeron.
 
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I think we should just take stock of the situation, at least Juan has convince one person with his BS.......himself
 
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