Serial Swatter Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter

[jedijeb13]

A lot of people here seem to think that execution, permanent or long term incarceration, or some form of vengeance will be a worthwhile activity in response to this.

I don't agree.

I don't agree, because none of that undoes what has happened. A person has died, and ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, NOTHING, CAN UNDO THAT.

Putting this jackass in jail does not magically resurrect the person who died. Executing him doesn't either.

Long term incarceration, execution, or some form of other harsh punishment will only make you feel better about yourself, but not actually solve the problem.

But what is the problem, at this point? The problem at this point is, what the fuck do we do with this person now.

Clearly, what was done is wrong, for so many reasons. But giving this jackass 25 years will not be any different from giving this person something in the realm of 3-4 years of rehabilitation. If this jackass is not to be executed, we as a society still need to take responsibility for what the fuck to do with him. Permanent incarceration is not the solution because you're now wasting tax dollars on keeping someone in prison, when they most likely could instead be a productive member of society (after rehabilitation), who instead of COSTING TAX DOLLARS can now PAY TAX DOLLARS.

If this jackass can be rehabilitated (and I am not qualified in the slightest to determine this), then the LOGICAL thing to do, is to incarcerate them and send them through GENUINE REHABILITATION. And I'm not talking this bullshit maximum security prison crap that we somehow think is solving problems (SPOILER: IT'S ACTUALLY CAUSING MORE PROBLEMS THAN IT'S SOLVING).

I'm talking about something in the realm of low to medium security prison (based on their escape assessment), in which this jackass can be taught why the fuck it was not okay, and be retrained how to reintegrate with society. So when they get out of jail, they can get a job, and get back to contributing to society, and know the consequences of what they did.

I think the problem is that people can be swatted in the first place.
There seems to be a real lack of safeguards against fake reports.

Some other potential problem areas

• One person can, somehow, call into 911 multiple times for swatting and fake bomb calls
• Police being too trigger happy
• The fact that swatting is popular form of harassment at all
• Rehab does nothing for sociopaths (IMO)

One big problem is when the punishment for the crime is better than the life the person is living already. If you give someone a nice place to stay, and they figure out all they have to do is act like they have learned their lesson then they will gladly serve a little time, enjoy the vacation, and then return to what they were doing in the first place. When the punishment is severe enough that the person never wants to go through it again and will do everything they can to prevent having to experience it again such as not committing the crime again, then it is successful. Just like some children can't stand to be isolated and not allowed to pursue an activity, therefore a "time out" is enough to deter them from repeating an unwanted action, there are those children such as I was, that sitting me in the corner I would have just daydreamed a new adventure and it would have taught me nothing. A good swat on the rear was more of a deterrent to me, so that is what worked.

I also don't understand how some people think that all people can be reasoned with and will see the value of proper behavior and change their ways, instead of needing to undergo some type of harsh punishment.

Swatting is a popular form of harassment because most of the time the only person who suffers is the target, not the instigator. If there is no fear of reprisal, then an act such as swatting becomes very attractive to people seeking revenge or who are just bullies at heart.

I think the term trigger happy is not quite accurate for the vast majority of police. Most would rather never need to use their weapon in the line of duty. How many of these officers have ever been in a shootout situation before? Some may serve 20 years and never face such a situation, then all of a sudden they are dropped right in the middle of what could be a very volatile and dangerous hostage situation. There is no real way to prepare for that until you actually go through it. Everyone I have ever met that went through something like that either as police or in the military will tell you that practice and training are totally different to what you experience in a real life and death situation when it finally arrives. Did the police make a mistake, yes, did the 911 make a mistake, yes. But if there may be mere minutes to react to the situation, should the police wait maybe an hour while the call is researched to see if it is accurate? How long would it take to make the proper trace and research to see where the call originated and who made it? I have personally gotten marketing calls by people who are obviously not from the US but the phone number was a local number, and out here in the middle of nowhere there are very few Indian or Asian people living to be making calls trying to sell me something. Obviously the number is spoofed, and if he spoofed a number to call in the swatting call, how long would it take to verify it was not real? Would it be fast enough to verify and then still send in the police in time to save a life if it finally proved to be legit? Are there things that can be done to help prevent what happened, possible, but what is that solution? Why hasn't someone here already sent that information to law enforcement so that this can be prevented in the future?

 

[Deleted member 204526]

People need to come to grip with a simple fact.

There are some people who are simply wired wrong and they will never be able to make any positive contribution to society. Quite the opposite. They will cause pain, in some form, or another. The only option is to eradicate them from the planet.

Now, how to test for the bad wiring is the trick.

For these types, I've found the only thing that works is for them to find religion (hopefully Christianity and not Islam). I say that as an atheist. The support structure along with the fear of eternal damnation combine to keep these fundamentally broken folks in line.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

The support structure along with the fear of eternal damnation combine to keep these fundamentally broken folks in line.

But that's the problem, because such people only fear what could happen IF they do something wrong - contrast that with what WILL or SHOULD happen if they do something wrong, as in if they kill someone or do something that causes the death of someone in the here and now they themselves deserve nothing less than to die themselves.

That's the problem more than anything else in today's world: people do whatever they want knowing that our so-called 'civilized society' will just throw them in a cell for however many years, feed them, clothe them, give them access to religion if they want it, health and medical services, books, learning materials, and so on. They do what they want without fear of any reprisals now because someone told them a magical mystical creature will judge them after they're dead - someday Humanity is going to get past that bullshit and that's when things will really change like they should have by this point in our existence.

A truly civilized society would absolutely eradicate such people from the population nearly instantly and I don't mean just shuffling them off to a profit center aka "a jail or prison" where society has to front the cost of keeping them alive. A truly civilized society would not tolerate such behavior from anyone, for any reason, and resolve such situations with a haste that our world simply cannot even begin to fathom to any degrees whatsoever.

As for your trying to say Christianity (which more people have died for than any other cause or reason in the history of mankind on this planet of ours) is better than Islam I suppose that just proves your lack of general understanding of any religion whatsoever - they're all fucking evil despicable things, every last one of them, which is something that any actual Atheist should understand as the one truth.

 

[Tsumi]

Only problem is he didn't kill the guy, so he really can't be charged with murder. The fact is had the police used proper discretion, nobody would have died. Not excusing the swatter, but 2 crimes were committed and only one is being charged.

Right. We get it. You aren't going to convince anyone, and no one is going to convince you. If you think being a cop is so easy, go do it yourself. Better yet, go train some cops if you're so damn smart.

 

[Mut1ny]

Rotten Bast*#d !!! I bet he thought it was funny when he was making the calls, what is wrong with people like him !!

Don't self censor the word bastard. I promise you you'll be fine lol!

 

[GlacierNine]

People need to come to grip with a simple fact.

There are some people who are simply wired wrong and they will never be able to make any positive contribution to society. Quite the opposite. They will cause pain, in some form, or another. The only option is to eradicate them from the planet.

Now, how to test for the bad wiring is the trick.

You can't test for it. End of story.

Because you can't test for it, you can't legislate around what would happen if you could test for it.

This is why death sentences are stupid - because any risk of killing an innocent man is too high a risk to contemplate unless you have a warped perception of the value of human life.

Not only that, but even if you assume it's possible to overcome that, proving guilt to the degree required is a process that takes so much time, effort, and legal expense that it's actually less efficient economically than a life sentence.

 

[Uvaman2]

This might be the only time i would say this: but pad those charges, pad the shit out of them.

 

[c3k]

A lot of people here seem to think that execution, permanent or long term incarceration, or some form of vengeance will be a worthwhile activity in response to this.

I don't agree.

I don't agree, because none of that undoes what has happened. A person has died, and ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, NOTHING, CAN UNDO THAT.

Putting this jackass in jail does not magically resurrect the person who died. Executing him doesn't either.

Long term incarceration, execution, or some form of other harsh punishment will only make you feel better about yourself, but not actually solve the problem.

But what is the problem, at this point? The problem at this point is, what the fuck do we do with this person now.

Clearly, what was done is wrong, for so many reasons. But giving this jackass 25 years will not be any different from giving this person something in the realm of 3-4 years of rehabilitation. If this jackass is not to be executed, we as a society still need to take responsibility for what the fuck to do with him. Permanent incarceration is not the solution because you're now wasting tax dollars on keeping someone in prison, when they most likely could instead be a productive member of society (after rehabilitation), who instead of COSTING TAX DOLLARS can now PAY TAX DOLLARS.

If this jackass can be rehabilitated (and I am not qualified in the slightest to determine this), then the LOGICAL thing to do, is to incarcerate them and send them through GENUINE REHABILITATION. And I'm not talking this bullshit maximum security prison crap that we somehow think is solving problems (SPOILER: IT'S ACTUALLY CAUSING MORE PROBLEMS THAN IT'S SOLVING).

I'm talking about something in the realm of low to medium security prison (based on their escape assessment), in which this jackass can be taught why the fuck it was not okay, and be retrained how to reintegrate with society. So when they get out of jail, they can get a job, and get back to contributing to society, and know the consequences of what they did.

I don't even know where to begin.

So, your daughter just got raped? (I sincerely hope you do not have a daughter, or, if so, she never faces this.) The rape cannot be undone. Punish the guy who raped her? Why? He needs love. He needs to get laid. We need to show him a good time at a "ranch" in Nevada.

Ludicrous.

The issue, to me, isn't whether or not this individual gets rehabilitated. I don't care. He needs to be punished. If he learns from his mistake, bully for him. If not, then he'll be a repeat offender.

Oh, wait. He already WENT TO PRISON FOR THIS.

Now, someone is dead because of this guy's action. He has shown that he scoffs at societal norms to such a degree that he has caused mayhem and death. Very well, death to him.

Permanent removal is fitting. We all know that long prison terms get commuted, truncated, and otherwise set aside. Death? Not so much.

Save tax dollars: execute him at dawn after his conviction.

 

[BSmith]

You can't test for it. End of story.

Because you can't test for it, you can't legislate around what would happen if you could test for it.

This is why death sentences are stupid - because any risk of killing an innocent man is too high a risk to contemplate unless you have a warped perception of the value of human life.

Not only that, but even if you assume it's possible to overcome that, proving guilt to the degree required is a process that takes so much time, effort, and legal expense that it's actually less efficient economically than a life sentence.

Actually, testing for it is possible. The inherent fear of it is only due to ignorance. It is a matter of determiing the physical and DNA makeup of the incorrectly wired person. This is not about the physcological aspect, which is certainly a factor, but more difficult to ascertain to any degree of accuracy.

Legislating around it would be trivial. If found guilty of a crime (set whatever level you like), then the test is performed.

 

[Gigus Fire]

I know this is a crazy concept, but what about the people that actually shot and killed someone who was unarmed and not a threat?

 

[Armenius]

they have very defined rules in regards to felony murder which is why they charged him with manslaughter. It was well explained in this post.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...d-with-manslaughter/?comments=1&post=34630341

But I agree he should get more time. He also should bore the cost of the raid, funeral expenses, etc

I agree to a point, but they have to follow the legal definitions of these charges, or when they go to trial he will be found not guilty, and get off free.

A murder charge requires there to be intent and premeditation.

he exact verbiage changes from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but it generally goes something like this:

Intent to kill + Premeditation = 1st degree Murder
Intent to kill + Malice forethought, but no premeditation = 2nd Degree Murder
Intent to kill with no premeditation (heat of the moment) = Voluntary Manslaughter
No intent to kill and no premeditation = Involuntary Manslaughter.

The is a horrible human being with his disregard for human life, but following the definitions above, you can only land in one spot, as there is no evidence of either intent to kill, just an intent to prank or scare, but he was either extremely stupid or completely lacking in his regard for human life to not consider the risks to peoples lives from his actions.

I wish there were a higher charge, but in the grand scheme of things, I'd rather he gets charged and sent to federal "pound me up the ass" prison, than the DA choosing a charge that is higher than he can convict the guy for, and seeing him acquitted.

Unfortunate that Kansas doesn't have 3rd Degree Murder like Florida does.

Under Florida Statute 782.04(4), the crime of Third Degree Murder occurs when a person unintentionally kills another person while committing, or attempting to commit, a non-violent felony.

The crime of Third Degree Murder is a Second Degree Felony in Florida and punishable by up to fifteen (15) years in prison, fifteen (15) years of probation, and a $10,000 fine.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

Was Involuntary Manslaughter the only charge though?

Usually they add up the sentence by throwing many charges at them, and it adds up.


Also, remember kids. You can't have Manslaughter without laughter

I don't know, but I feel like anything less than life is a failure of the justice system. I'm not a huge fan of life sentences as I feel that is a waste of resources, but I feel that should be the absolute minimum sentence this trashcan is facing.

 

[viscountalpha]

He didn't kill anyone. An overzealous cop did.

This idiot was exploited the fucked up american police state that doesn't bother to check anything before they break through doors and kill people in their own homes.

Your very wrong about this. I asked someone who worked law enforcement about this very issue and the swatter gave the worst kind of description he could. He intended to put people in harms way.

Like "I have hostages but I will fire if police approached me" so this swatter pos was intending to cause malicious harm.

This swatter is pure scum. Shit heads like him need to be put down if they don't learn to change their ways.

 

[Gigus Fire]

Your very wrong about this. I asked someone who worked law enforcement about this very issue and the swatter gave the worst kind of description he could. He intended to put people in harms way.

Like "I have hostages but I will fire if police approached me" so this swatter pos was intending to cause malicious harm.

This swatter is pure scum. Shit heads like him need to be put down if they don't learn to change their ways.

Ok. But lets talk about some common sense. Does it makes sense to send a swat team after a report like that from a different area code? From across the country? Or does it make more sense to establish credible and non-credible reports?
How about calling a neighbor to confirm the report? How about checking to see if there's been cases of domestic disturbances from the same address?

Besides just sending the swat team out whenever someone claims they saw a gun, why not use some common sense instead? If the phone number is from a different area code/state then get confirmation first. If it's from a mobile phone, then use Geo911 to pinpoint the location. If the call sounds fishy, call them back for confirmation. Call a neighbor to see if there's something wrong or if they can see if there's cause for alarm.

Then yes, there's also locking these people away and not treating it like a prank call. But yes, sending the swat team out to anyone who calls and files a bogus report, then going in there guns blazing shooting anything that moves is extreme to the max and easy to abuse (obviously).

 

[lostin3d]

As I get older and see more of the heinous acts humans will do to each other it becomes increasingly difficult for me to remain compassionate to the convicted. At this point I'm leaning towards the death penalty, especially after reading of his priors and other investigations. I know it's not really an option, but that's how I feel.

 

[ChoGGi]

Well I'm late to this party, so all I'm going to add is "Good"...Though an added community service of a few decades scraping out bedpans wouldn't be amiss.

Ok. But lets talk about some common sense. Does it makes sense to send a swat team after a report like that from a different area code?

I would assume he's smart enough to spoof his number?

From the (unfortunately short and without much context) video the police released, and their recollection the guy had came out onto his porch (after hearing noise outside), they told him to get his hands up, he put them up, then moved his hands towards his waist and one cop shot at him.

 

[Nobu]

Put him under house arrest, with video surveillance, tapped phones, and no access to internet or cell phone. He goes to school, work, then straight home. Put his parents in charge of ensuring that, and make them pay if he doesn't. Allow any sort of correction by the parents so long as it's not crippling, life threatening, or "inhumane".

 

[Gigus Fire]

Well I'm late to this party, so all I'm going to add is "Good"...Though an added community service of a few decades scraping out bedpans wouldn't be amiss.



I would assume he's smart enough to spoof his number?

From the (unfortunately short and without much context) video the police released, and their recollection the guy had came out onto his porch (after hearing noise outside), they told him to get his hands up, he put them up, then moved his hands towards his waist and one cop shot at him.

Sure, you can spoof your number, but can you answer a call back on the spoofed number? Can the spoofed number have an address associated with it?
"Hey buddy, we see you're calling from a landline about 50 miles away from the address you're reporting. Want to explain that?" It's that simple.
Mobile phones have Geo911 for triangulation. If they're calling and it's not even near the area, that's pretty suspect to me.

 

[dgingeri]

A lot of people here seem to think that execution, permanent or long term incarceration, or some form of vengeance will be a worthwhile activity in response to this.

I don't agree.

I don't agree, because none of that undoes what has happened. A person has died, and ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, NOTHING, CAN UNDO THAT.

Putting this jackass in jail does not magically resurrect the person who died. Executing him doesn't either.

Long term incarceration, execution, or some form of other harsh punishment will only make you feel better about yourself, but not actually solve the problem.

But what is the problem, at this point? The problem at this point is, what the fuck do we do with this person now.

Clearly, what was done is wrong, for so many reasons. But giving this jackass 25 years will not be any different from giving this person something in the realm of 3-4 years of rehabilitation. If this jackass is not to be executed, we as a society still need to take responsibility for what the fuck to do with him. Permanent incarceration is not the solution because you're now wasting tax dollars on keeping someone in prison, when they most likely could instead be a productive member of society (after rehabilitation), who instead of COSTING TAX DOLLARS can now PAY TAX DOLLARS.

If this jackass can be rehabilitated (and I am not qualified in the slightest to determine this), then the LOGICAL thing to do, is to incarcerate them and send them through GENUINE REHABILITATION. And I'm not talking this bullshit maximum security prison crap that we somehow think is solving problems (SPOILER: IT'S ACTUALLY CAUSING MORE PROBLEMS THAN IT'S SOLVING).

I'm talking about something in the realm of low to medium security prison (based on their escape assessment), in which this jackass can be taught why the fuck it was not okay, and be retrained how to reintegrate with society. So when they get out of jail, they can get a job, and get back to contributing to society, and know the consequences of what they did.

Jail is not, and has never been, there to rehabilitate people. That's a BIG misconception. It is to contain those who refuse to abide by the rules of civilization and are dangerous to the population, until they are no longer a threat. If they decide to not be a threat anymore, then fine, let them out. Otherwise, they should be kept in until they are too old to be a threat.

 

[Retronym]

This is why I always play single player.

 

[DukenukemX]

Should lock him away and force him to play Superman 64, over and over and over, for 10 years. But in all seriousness, whatever happened to the cop who actually shot the person dead?

 

[Lenard]

"we have to take this guy down before he kills anyone else".

If a single anonymous phone call can put a cop in that state the system needs to be reformed.

 

[Lenard]

Should lock him away and force him to play Superman 64, over and over and over, for 10 years. But in all seriousness, whatever happened to the cop who actually shot the person dead?

He could also be facing charges. I have heard mixed reports.

 

[lcpiper]

Huh?

I mean I get it, he's basically saying "it won't bring him back" but his wording of "justify what happened" makes me want to punch him more, because it also sounds like he's saying "why charge me, it won't bring him back"

Well that's the real issue isn't it? This mushroom just doesn't believe that he did anything wrong. He truly believes that the it's all the cops fault for killing the man and that his role in creating the situation is a cause of his death.

He is a man who will not accept responsibility for his actions or the outcome of his actions.

Yes, we had sex, but I just gave her the spermies, what she does with it after is on her .......

 

[lcpiper]

Call me crazy, but involuntary manslaughter seems like the right charge to me, and ten years seems like about the right sentence if he is convicted (though only if he serves most or all of it).

He already did 3 years for fake bomb threats ....... His comments make it clear that he is mentally incapable of accepting his responsibility for his actions. He can't be rehabilitated, he's a broken human who is fixated on creating dangerous, even deadly situations for other people.

This is one of those cases where the real just action would be a quick and painless death with the least additional cost to the public.

You can't free him again, he's proven that he will repeat his crimes. Unless you think that you can somehow "teach" him what he seems incapable of understanding.

 

[Nobu]

Well that's the real issue isn't it? This mushroom just doesn't believe that he did anything wrong. He truly believes that the it's all the cops fault for killing the man and that his role in creating the situation is a cause of his death.

He is a man who will not accept responsibility for his actions or the outcome of his actions.

Yes, we had sex, but I just gave her the spermies, what she does with it after is on her .......

More like, "yeah, I told a rapist where to find someone, and I described them in detail. What are you going to do about it?" His only way of arguing he didn't conspire to murder is he didn't tell them to kill anyone, and that's pretty fucked up. And arguing that he knew they would, would require assuming that the officers would kill as a matter of fact, regardless of the situation (or, the legal defense would spin it that way, anyway).

 

[SomeoneElse]

If a single anonymous phone call can put a cop in that state the system needs to be reformed.

So you are saying that they shouldn't investigate a tip saying someone has killed another and hold others hostage?

 

[lcpiper]

Involuntary manslaughter seems like a slap on the wrists.

He INTENTIONALLY put the people he called the SWAT team in on in harms way.


That being said, I see how they came to this conclusion through the legal process.

Voluntary Manslaughter involves an intent to kill, albeit without premeditation. Heat of the moment type of stuff.

Involuntary Manslaughter means there was no intent to kill.

We have no reason to believe the person was intentionally trying to kill anyone, so Involuntary Manslaughter fits the description.

There really ought to be something in between Involuntary and Voluntary manslaughter though, seeing the blatant disregard this guy had for the lives of others. He may not have been TRYING to kill anyone, but he showed no concern what so ever with the blatant risks he was exposing other people to through his actions. There ought to be a higher charge available for that level of wanton disregard for human life.

I think the charge is wrong and doesn't fit the crime. Instead of charging him solely from the perspective of the result, the death, it's the "other charge", the making a false alarm charge that needs stiffer penalties when the outcome is a homicide or near homicide. You can tack on the manslaughter charge when it applies as an added charge.

 

[Powerage]

That isn't even close to what happened. I would kindly ask you stop talking out of your ass.

You're so clever and right! This isn't what happened, at all! What happened is some asshole cop shot him from 40 yards off when he came to answer his front door. That's so much better and totally removes any responsibility from the police!

Now feel free to tell me this isn't even close to what happened and to stop talking out of my ass and educate myself. I'm sure the person you quoted was referring to one of the other dozen of instances that happen in the USA every single fucking year.

 

[lcpiper]

So, the actual murderers will walk free, while this piece of shit will rot? Just this ain't

The actual murders ..... You're a piece of work.

Either you hate cops and see all of their actions as wrong, or you can't grasp the very simple concept that any time the cops confront people in a heightened state that there is a risk that people will react poorly and the cops may queue off of that reaction with a disastrous result ....... hence why it's illegal to make false claims like this.

I think you should be made a cop.

If this is so damned important to you and you are so certain that they are way off the leash, why don't you step the fuck up and become a cop and look out for people yourself. Go do it right and set the other example.

 

[Powerage]

The actual murders ..... You're a piece of work.

Either you hate cops and see all of their actions as wrong, or you can't grasp the very simple concept that any time the cops confront people in a heightened state that there is a risk that people will react poorly and the cops may queue off of that reaction with a disastrous result ....... hence why it's illegal to make false claims like this.

I think you should be made a cop.

If this is so damned important to you and you are so certain that they are way off the leash, why don't you step the fuck up and become a cop and look out for people yourself. Go do it right and set the other example.

Good idea. Cop culture is well known for being very open to newcomers coming in and shaping things up. Oh wait, no it's not and there have been multiple instances in history where cops have gone out of their way to discredit, murder, or frame even their own people who decide to try to change things. Good idea.

 

[lcpiper]

You're so clever and right! This isn't what happened, at all! What happened is some asshole cop shot him from 40 yards off when he came to answer his front door. That's so much better and totally removes any responsibility from the police!

Now feel free to tell me this isn't even close to what happened and to stop talking out of my ass and educate myself. I'm sure the person you quoted was referring to one of the other dozen of instances that happen in the USA every single fucking year.

No no no it isn't what happened. I saw the video, the man was already standing on his porch, not opening his door. He was standing there, the cops were telling him to raise his hands, he kept dropping them, and the last time he raised his hands he did it very quickly and his right arm is cocked out to the side like he was holding a weapon and one of the cops fired a single shot.

Now I am not saying the cop's reaction was appropriate, but misstating the situation in a clearly false manner is no help at all.

I actually wonder if the cop was right in shooting because of two things. The first, usually when a cop fires they really unload like an entire magazine because one shot doesn't always do the job and it would actually be easy to miss at that distance, from across the street. The other reason is even more telling, only one cop fired, usually if someone does something that justifies a deadly response, several cops open up together.

My gut reaction on this is that from this cop's angle he had a hard time seeing what the other cops saw. They saw the same threatening movement but realized there wasn't a gun and didn't fire, the cop that did fire most likely did so out of a keyed-up reaction and held up firing more because he realized that he shouldn't have shot, that he didn't control himself properly.

But what I know is that just because I see that video and I have my opinion about it, I'm not such a fool to think that I should be making a decision on this. It's not up to me because one, I wasn't there and that video is only part of the story, two, I'm not a cop on that police force so I am not trained and don't KNOW what was a proper reaction, and three, even if I was there and even if I was a cop on that force and had the training and knew the proper procedure for the situation, I'm not the person who is given the responsibility to decide this, that is on someone else to do, and live with, not me, and I think ... not you.

 

[lcpiper]

Good idea. Cop culture is well known for being very open to newcomers coming in and shaping things up. Oh wait, no it's not and there have been multiple instances in history where cops have gone out of their way to discredit, murder, or frame even their own people who decide to try to change things. Good idea.

Yea, in Hollywood.

You go ahead, do your research, dig up a couple of cases where bad cops have done such things ...... Then I'll do my research and show you how many Police Departments there are in the USofA and how many Law Enforcement Officers are employed in this country and then we'll do the percentage game and you know what........It's be something stupidly low like .0003% of the Officers in like .008% of the departments have been accused, not found guilty, just accused.

Then you'll make some bullshit statement about how we can't know how many cause it's all covered up ... which you can't prove or quantify with any facts, research, or anything at all.


Would you like to play a game?

 

[Seventyfive]

How is it "involuntary"? If I start shooting into a crowd of people, would I get "involuntary" or should I have known my actions will cause a homicide? I think this is completely bullshit.

 

[Seventyfive]

Put him under house arrest, with video surveillance, tapped phones, and no access to internet or cell phone. He goes to school, work, then straight home. Put his parents in charge of ensuring that, and make them pay if he doesn't. Allow any sort of correction by the parents so long as it's not crippling, life threatening, or "inhumane".

Would you have the same opinion if he killed your mom, dad, wife, daughter, or even your dog?

 

[Outhouse]

Sure, you can spoof your number, but can you answer a call back on the spoofed number?

Depends on how you have spoofed your number. Regardless of that, if 911 or the cops call back and nobody answers, what do you expect them to do, ignore the initial call? How much time should be spent trying to call back and verify when there has been reported threat of someone already killed and others being lit on fire?

Can the spoofed number have an address associated with it?
"Hey buddy, we see you're calling from a landline about 50 miles away from the address you're reporting. Want to explain that?" It's that simple.

Yes, it can, and no, it's not that simple. The address information is not tyically transmitted with the initial call setup. When a call hits 911, the PSAP does a lookup for the ANI in a database, that database provides the address associated. If you have spoofed your number properly, that number's address will show up.

Mobile phones have Geo911 for triangulation. If they're calling and it's not even near the area, that's pretty suspect to me.

If you're calling from a Cellphone, using your cellphone service, you're typically not spoofing a number. If you're using a softphone on that cellphone, then it's not your phone sourcing the number to the telco provider, it's the system you're linked into. If you've bounced the call off of a poorly configured system at some business, it's not your cellphone sourcing the call to the telco provider, it's the system you're bouncing the call off of. It's not as simple to track this stuff down as you think.

*initially quoted instead of replied, sorry about that

 

[mord]

Involuntary manslaughter seems like a slap on the wrists.

He INTENTIONALLY put the people he called the SWAT team in on in harms way.


That being said, I see how they came to this conclusion through the legal process.

Voluntary Manslaughter involves an intent to kill, albeit without premeditation. Heat of the moment type of stuff.

Involuntary Manslaughter means there was no intent to kill.

We have no reason to believe the person was intentionally trying to kill anyone, so Involuntary Manslaughter fits the description.

There really ought to be something in between Involuntary and Voluntary manslaughter though, seeing the blatant disregard this guy had for the lives of others. He may not have been TRYING to kill anyone, but he showed no concern what so ever with the blatant risks he was exposing other people to through his actions. There ought to be a higher charge available for that level of wanton disregard for human life.

Aggravated Involuntary Manslaughter? or Reckless Involuntary Manslaughter? I agree there is a difference in careless or thoughtless actions that lead to death, verses intentional actions that could likely lead to death.

 

[Nobu]

Would you have the same opinion if he killed your mom, dad, wife, daughter, or even your dog?

Yes, because he hasn't himself killed anyone. I believe he is scum and deserves punishment, but I don't believe we need to send him to jail to control him, or kill him to prevent future incidents. I do believe that if he had proper supervision and his access to unlimited self-gratification was cut off, that he might develop into a better person. Or, he might kill himself or his guardians/supervision...but hopefully they'd recognize any sort of physical aggression before it got out of hand. Worst case, he could be required to wear a straitjacket, I guess.

 

[Powerage]

Yea, in Hollywood.

You go ahead, do your research, dig up a couple of cases where bad cops have done such things ...... Then I'll do my research and show you how many Police Departments there are in the USofA and how many Law Enforcement Officers are employed in this country and then we'll do the percentage game and you know what........It's be something stupidly low like .0003% of the Officers in like .008% of the departments have been accused, not found guilty, just accused.

Then you'll make some bullshit statement about how we can't know how many cause it's all covered up ... which you can't prove or quantify with any facts, research, or anything at all.


Would you like to play a game?

Thanks for proving my point. A statistically impossible number of officers have ever been accused of a crime. 0.008% of departments. Come on man. Ever hear that if something is too good to be true, it probably is? Not saying the number is higher, I accept that 0.008% of departments have been accused. What I'm saying is that way more departments than that are fucking up and getting away with it.

 

[Gigus Fire]

Depends on how you have spoofed your number. Regardless of that, if 911 or the cops call back and nobody answers, what do you expect them to do, ignore the initial call? How much time should be spent trying to call back and verify when there has been reported threat of someone already killed and others being lit on fire?


Yes, it can, and no, it's not that simple. The address information is not tyically transmitted with the initial call setup. When a call hits 911, the PSAP does a lookup for the ANI in a database, that database provides the address associated. If you have spoofed your number properly, that number's address will show up.


If you're calling from a Cellphone, using your cellphone service, you're typically not spoofing a number. If you're using a softphone on that cellphone, then it's not your phone sourcing the number to the telco provider, it's the system you're linked into. If you've bounced the call off of a poorly configured system at some business, it's not your cellphone sourcing the call to the telco provider, it's the system you're bouncing the call off of. It's not as simple to track this stuff down as you think.

*initially quoted instead of replied, sorry about that

Easy. In cases in which you can't verify the claim then don't go in guns blazing. Go and get prepared and do a knock/ring doorbell search or try and verify the complaint first.

For the cases of spoofing, there should be ways to detect iffy numbers. Just spoofing caller id will not let you answer a callback. Using an allocated phone number will not let you set an address and can probably be detected.

In cases where the spoofed address (landline) address is no where near the complaint address, ask how they got that info? Obviously if someone is calling from a address that's even 15 miles away and they claim to see someone waving around a gun in a threatening manner, ask them how they're calling on that line?
If you call back and no one answers after you just spoke to them, treat it as an unverified claim. Don't go rushing into unverified claims but do follow up.

It's just common sense stuff. When you treat every report as credible and go in with raids where everyone thinks there's a weapon somewhere, then there's people that liable to get hurt.