Kid deserves what's coming to him. But kid has a point, and we also need to fix trigger happy SWAT on unverified calls. Nobody even talks about the one that happened in GA days later, SWAT shot and killed a man looking out his window, when a spoof call was made about a psycho woman.
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Serial Swatter Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter
- Thread starter rgMekanic
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Master_shake_
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Well, all I can say is: It's a good thing you aren't in charge.
timberwolf
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"The accused was found hanging in his cell dead while awaiting trial." Would be an outcome I can get onboard with.
People need to come to grip with a simple fact.
There are some people who are simply wired wrong and they will never be able to make any positive contribution to society. Quite the opposite. They will cause pain, in some form, or another. The only option is to eradicate them from the planet.
Now, how to test for the bad wiring is the trick.
There are some people who are simply wired wrong and they will never be able to make any positive contribution to society. Quite the opposite. They will cause pain, in some form, or another. The only option is to eradicate them from the planet.
Now, how to test for the bad wiring is the trick.
I think this stupid prankster should get the maximum possible sentence. This swatting thing should not happen again, and should have never happened. He may have not invented swatting, but he's responsible for more than one swatting incident, and it's last prank resulted in an innocent person being killed. An example should be made so others won't make the same stupid things.
But I also think the police officer that pulled the trigger is not free of guilt and should also be punished somehow. At the very least he should not be allowed to touch guns again.
But I also think the police officer that pulled the trigger is not free of guilt and should also be punished somehow. At the very least he should not be allowed to touch guns again.
While what he did was very bad and he deserves to be punished severely and made an example of to anyone else thinking about calling in a swatting incident, you can't at the same time with intellectual honesty claim that a huge part of an innocent unarmed father getting gunned down on his doorstep for no reason, is not to do with the Police department.
Sorry but if your police department is so stupid that some criminal can pick a random address from across the country and call in some fake threat pretending to be local, and you have a bunch of guys show up with itchy trigger fingers and kill some citizen for NO good reason (don't even start the utter BS about his hands moved somewhere close to his waist Garbage). Then your police department is really messed up and a lot of people need to be fired.
Swatting incidents happen way too often, but usually the police at least make a small effort to understand the local situation before killing people.
Yes there needs to be harsh punishment for this guy and also for all these criminals calling in fake threats. BUT at the same time the local police departments, 911 operators and the guys that are paid to carry guns to supposedly protect the local citizens, need to actually think things through a bit and not just say... well we got a call and .... kill kill kill.... then try to pass off all the blame on someone else. It's not like fake bomb threats, fake hostage threats, or swatting is some new and novel thing, it has been going on for a long time.
On the Technology part, the police and the 911 system need to seriously work on their equipment to properly determine when and where calls are coming from for threats. They seem to have all the resources in the world when spying on people's phones & cell phones for other broad data collection purposes. It is not that hard to have a system to actually determine from the carriers where a call is actually being sent from.
Sorry but if your police department is so stupid that some criminal can pick a random address from across the country and call in some fake threat pretending to be local, and you have a bunch of guys show up with itchy trigger fingers and kill some citizen for NO good reason (don't even start the utter BS about his hands moved somewhere close to his waist Garbage). Then your police department is really messed up and a lot of people need to be fired.
Swatting incidents happen way too often, but usually the police at least make a small effort to understand the local situation before killing people.
Yes there needs to be harsh punishment for this guy and also for all these criminals calling in fake threats. BUT at the same time the local police departments, 911 operators and the guys that are paid to carry guns to supposedly protect the local citizens, need to actually think things through a bit and not just say... well we got a call and .... kill kill kill.... then try to pass off all the blame on someone else. It's not like fake bomb threats, fake hostage threats, or swatting is some new and novel thing, it has been going on for a long time.
On the Technology part, the police and the 911 system need to seriously work on their equipment to properly determine when and where calls are coming from for threats. They seem to have all the resources in the world when spying on people's phones & cell phones for other broad data collection purposes. It is not that hard to have a system to actually determine from the carriers where a call is actually being sent from.
People are forgetting the police killed that innocent person. If the police actually do their job correctly, they wouldn't need to RAID every house that gets a call about. Swatting would not be a thing if the police didn't send the swat military to people's homes. Yes, he is a scumbag but the real problem is the police allow swatting to happen.
I can get behind that part of what you said.
But I've worked as a LEO before, and if I'm showing up to what I'm told is an armed person, who has already murdered someone, is holding 2 people hostage, and has covered the home in gasoline, I can assure you that you are on an extreme level of alertness.
Krenum
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Should charged him with conspiracy to commit murder. Calling a swat team to someones house isn't involuntary.
Hope this fuck rots in prison. Probably wont. Our legal system is a joke.
Need to go back to public hangings.
Hope this fuck rots in prison. Probably wont. Our legal system is a joke.
Need to go back to public hangings.
Dead Parrot
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In this case I think the unlisted option 5 applies:
No intent to kill but with premeditation(he did pickup a phone and make the 911 call. A planned act, therefore premeditated.)
They should also add in:
Unlawful use of 911 system.(Possibly a Kansas charge, sentence served once released from Cali prison)
Unlawful use of an Interstate Communications system. (Federal charge, sentence served once out of Kansas jail)
To attempt to be fair, the cops showed up and saw a guy they had been told had just killed a couple people and was ready to kill more. They potentially had decent reason to believe he might've been going for a gun.
I think everyone would prefer they'd been a bit more judicious, but from their point of view, had they done nothing, he might've killed a few of them as well as the people they thought he'd already killed. I've seen enough dashcam videos of cops getting shot without any warning to understand their point of view.
I mean, this shit DOES claim to have done it a ton, and doesn't seem particularly remorseful.
No matter what else happens he won't be swatting anyone while he's in prison.
Fun fact: more than one activist has said the same thing..and then been invited to police drills where, when it came right down to it and they had a gun loaded with blanks in their hands, shot the "perp". And, given they knew it was a drill, they knew the "perp" didn't have a gun.
I'm not suggesting any kind of blanket "this is OK". I'm saying that, without being in that situation, you can't know what it's like.
Having said THAT, us regular people deserve the same deference cops get in similar situations. For example, Cory Maye should never have gone to jail for shooting what he thought was a home invader.
westrock2000
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Not been to Wichita Kansas much? Not exactly the kind of place you see hostage situations with people being shot in the head on a frequent basis.
Also it's worth reminding, that the victim was completely random in this case. He wasn't connected to the Cali Shithead in anyway. The Cali Shithead thought it was the right address, but it was just some random dude.
Also it's worth reminding, that the victim was completely random in this case. He wasn't connected to the Cali Shithead in anyway. The Cali Shithead thought it was the right address, but it was just some random dude.
westrock2000
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Some people go to great lengths to not have to have a job or be responsible. My uncle-in-law raped his granddaughter (a child) and then went and turned himself in so that he could go to jail. And when parole comes up, I'm sure he will say he is still a threat to society and they will be forced to keep him locked up....living rent free as a ward of the state.
hurleybird
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We have systems in place already. It's called ANI/ALI information. When a call comes into 911, it will typically show the associated address for a landline, or GPS coordinates complete with a confidence interval for cell phones.
This scumbag circumvented these systems by calling into city hall instead of 911, then he hung up and stopped answering his phone, after which city hall passed the details to 911, which then made an outgoing call to the perp. There's no ANI/ALI available for outgoing calls, which is probably a good thing given the potential privacy violations. 911 can still usually query telecom companies for more information, but it's a more involved process that is usually reserved for scenarios like "my friend got lost in the wilderness, and this is his cell phone number."
Involuntary manslaughter is an insufficiently light charge in my opinion. It would be one thing if the perp had just called in a tip, but throughout his interaction with 911 he continually escalated the situation, gunning for the hottest response possible. It's obvious that this increases the risk to the victim, which in itself demonstrates a certain degree of intent.
dgingeri
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Regardless of the intent to kill, if a death, even of an accomplice, happens during the intentional commission of a felony, then it is considered murder. They have the precedent to charge him with murder.
Murder is never right no matter who does it....
I would suggest a life sentence with a monthly recorded PSA... force each to to play once on log in to every online game who publisher agrees to include it.
I have no doubt that after the swatting kids see how much happier this dude is going to look each month would end the practice for good. No doubt this kids jail time is going to be unfun in a big way... calling police on people for fun ?? I would bet in jail that is only a small step up from being a rapist.
dgingeri
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Actually, voluntary manslaughter is usually an intentional action of harm without the intent to kill that results in a death, like drunk driving. The voluntarily committed the act of harm with a "guilty mind" (voluntary) but did not intend to kill but it did kill someone (manslaughter).
However, in this situation, there is precedent that someone intentionally committing a felony with intent to harm, such as calling the police on someone falsely to scare them or disrupt their lives, and someone dies, even an accomplice in the crime, then it can be considered murder. This has been charged in a great many robberies where one robber gets killed by the victim while others live and get caught, even when they are unarmed at the time but claim they are. I've seen cases where someone was charged with murder because they knew a person was smuggling in drugs by a swallowed balloon and the balloon burst. They were considered an accessory, and someone died while in commission of that felony, so they were charged with murder.
I was involved in a case where several kids in my high school were killed due to one drunk driver. All 5 of them went to a party, and they were supplied with alcohol by the owners of the house, the parents of a classmate, and they also provided a "safe haven" for them to get drunk, and then allowed them to drive away. The parents who put on the party were charged with 5 counts of murder for their part. They intentionally committed several felonies in putting on the party and 5 kids got killed for it. They were convicted for it. The story is still told at my old high school, Rangeview HS in Aurora, Colorado, even over 20 years later. I had two nephews and one niece graduate from that school, and they told me they had heard about that story. It is a powerful message.
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Zarathustra[H]
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Was Involuntary Manslaughter the only charge though?
Usually they add up the sentence by throwing many charges at them, and it adds up.
Also, remember kids. You can't have Manslaughter without laughter
Man, it used to be that when people just wanted 3 hots and a cot for the winter instead of working, they'd just knock over a convenience store and not leave. It sounds like your UIL would doing society a favor by convincing the cops to keep him in prison. If they let him out, he sounds like the kind of person who'd commit another heinous crime to get back in instead of something minor.
People outraged that the victim was shot need to remember that part. The scumbag intentionally wound those cops up, making it more likely they'd shoot someone.
I'm fine with charging this guy (whether it's manslaughter or something else, I don't really care), but what about the cop(s)? I'm sorry, but they shot an unarmed man. That should put them on trial and if there's any justice, in jail. Shoot first and ask questions later use to be a joke, but not so much these days.
westrock2000
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I believe you are correct unfortunately. The guy even tried to write letters to my wifes parents afterwards like he could just carry on a casual conversation. Just completely oblivious to his depravity.
D
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So, we'll see fast swift justice for this so-called person now that all the evidence is in and it's well known that his actions caused the death of someone else, right? One round, back of the head, dumped in a hole, we're done, right?
If the answer is no, we really need to fix the "justice system" in our country, and fast.
If the answer is no, we really need to fix the "justice system" in our country, and fast.
Ya they shot the guy but were there on false pretenses. I believe the call to police stated that he had already shot and killed someone.
All the strong punishment recommendations and yet I haven't seen the one that will get to him the most. Make sure that no matter what, he can never play, touch, or even look at a video game again!! If this guy spends 10 years in prison, most likely with today's bleeding hearts in charge he will have access to play video games 12 hours a day at least. Totally preventing him from ever touching another video game will probably drive him nuts. But if they do let him have a video game in prison because some human rights activists says they have to, make sure he only gets to play My Little Pony or Barbie games 
Chunder
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When you get charged with manslaughter for making a phone call, but the untrained and trigger happy cops that killed an innocent person for no reason are still walking the streets....
BloodyIron
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A lot of people here seem to think that execution, permanent or long term incarceration, or some form of vengeance will be a worthwhile activity in response to this.
I don't agree.
I don't agree, because none of that undoes what has happened. A person has died, and ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, NOTHING, CAN UNDO THAT.
Putting this jackass in jail does not magically resurrect the person who died. Executing him doesn't either.
Long term incarceration, execution, or some form of other harsh punishment will only make you feel better about yourself, but not actually solve the problem.
But what is the problem, at this point? The problem at this point is, what the fuck do we do with this person now.
Clearly, what was done is wrong, for so many reasons. But giving this jackass 25 years will not be any different from giving this person something in the realm of 3-4 years of rehabilitation. If this jackass is not to be executed, we as a society still need to take responsibility for what the fuck to do with him. Permanent incarceration is not the solution because you're now wasting tax dollars on keeping someone in prison, when they most likely could instead be a productive member of society (after rehabilitation), who instead of COSTING TAX DOLLARS can now PAY TAX DOLLARS.
If this jackass can be rehabilitated (and I am not qualified in the slightest to determine this), then the LOGICAL thing to do, is to incarcerate them and send them through GENUINE REHABILITATION. And I'm not talking this bullshit maximum security prison crap that we somehow think is solving problems (SPOILER: IT'S ACTUALLY CAUSING MORE PROBLEMS THAN IT'S SOLVING).
I'm talking about something in the realm of low to medium security prison (based on their escape assessment), in which this jackass can be taught why the fuck it was not okay, and be retrained how to reintegrate with society. So when they get out of jail, they can get a job, and get back to contributing to society, and know the consequences of what they did.
I don't agree.
I don't agree, because none of that undoes what has happened. A person has died, and ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, NOTHING, CAN UNDO THAT.
Putting this jackass in jail does not magically resurrect the person who died. Executing him doesn't either.
Long term incarceration, execution, or some form of other harsh punishment will only make you feel better about yourself, but not actually solve the problem.
But what is the problem, at this point? The problem at this point is, what the fuck do we do with this person now.
Clearly, what was done is wrong, for so many reasons. But giving this jackass 25 years will not be any different from giving this person something in the realm of 3-4 years of rehabilitation. If this jackass is not to be executed, we as a society still need to take responsibility for what the fuck to do with him. Permanent incarceration is not the solution because you're now wasting tax dollars on keeping someone in prison, when they most likely could instead be a productive member of society (after rehabilitation), who instead of COSTING TAX DOLLARS can now PAY TAX DOLLARS.
If this jackass can be rehabilitated (and I am not qualified in the slightest to determine this), then the LOGICAL thing to do, is to incarcerate them and send them through GENUINE REHABILITATION. And I'm not talking this bullshit maximum security prison crap that we somehow think is solving problems (SPOILER: IT'S ACTUALLY CAUSING MORE PROBLEMS THAN IT'S SOLVING).
I'm talking about something in the realm of low to medium security prison (based on their escape assessment), in which this jackass can be taught why the fuck it was not okay, and be retrained how to reintegrate with society. So when they get out of jail, they can get a job, and get back to contributing to society, and know the consequences of what they did.
I think the problem is that people can be swatted in the first place.
There seems to be a real lack of safeguards against fake reports.
Some other potential problem areas
- One person can, somehow, call into 911 multiple times for swatting and fake bomb calls
- Police being too trigger happy
- The fact that swatting is popular form of harassment at all
- Rehab does nothing for sociopaths (IMO)
Did he have a gun? No? The shooter needs to be tried. So long as cops can kill people without any recriminations, shoot first and ask questions later will continue to be a problem.
If someone had called you and you'd done EXACTLY what the cops did, you'd be heading to trial and ultimately to jail. The swatter is a horrible person and he deserves to go to jail, but that doesn't mean the shooter didn't commit a crime. The victim had no gun, they shot first and said, "Ooops. We're sorry." I'm sure the shooter feels terrible, but he or she is not blameless.
Tsumi
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Execution would be worthwhile for these reasons:
1. This guy shows no remorse, and is proud of what he did. This shows a character that cannot be corrected or changed, and will most likely repeat his actions given the chance.
2. He will only ever cause harm to the world. Nothing good can ever come of having him around. Maybe there is a 0.1% chance that proper treatment can turn him around, but again, that is a 0.1% chance. Or less even.
3. There is absolutely no question he is guilty. This isn't one of those cases that the guy is on death row with dubious evidence. He has openly admitted to it.
4. Executing him will save on tax dollars. He is a cancer to society, and when you have cancer, you exterminate it with prejudice, otherwise it will continue to grow and cause more harm.
Only problem is he didn't kill the guy, so he really can't be charged with murder. The fact is had the police used proper discretion, nobody would have died. Not excusing the swatter, but 2 crimes were committed and only one is being charged.