why do people state whether video card were used for mining?

typically its because the cards are under heavy load pretty much 24/7 or whenever they are mining which is usually much more than people who just game or render.
 
This is also why some cards are now sold as mining cards that are designed for continuous load
 
They list it for full disclosure... any serious miner is undervolting the card and keeping the temps far below the heat and cool cycle (in a confined case) that a gamer will put it through.
 
oblox said:
They list it for full disclosure... any serious miner is undervolting the card and keeping the temps far below the heat and cool cycle (in a confined case) that a gamer will put it through.
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This is so misleading that it needs to stop being repeated. ETH is currently the most popular form of GPU mining and while people undervolt and under clock the GPU, they also at the same time crack up the VRAM speeds to clocks that are MUCH higher than any gaming card would see because it would crash or artifact at a far lower clock speed. Then there’s the fact that it’s under load 24/7 which also doesn’t happen in games.
 
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RamonGTP said:
This is so misleading that it needs to stop being repeated. ETH is currently the most popular form of GPU mining and while people undervolt and under clock the GPU, they also at the same time crack up the VRAM speeds to clocks that are MUCH higher than any gaming card would see because it would crash or artifact at a far lower clock speed. Then there’s the fact that it’s under load 24/7 which also doesn’t happen in games.
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Have you actually used a former mining card and noticed any issue in your gaming performance?
 
oblox said:
Have you actually used a former mining card and noticed any issue in your gaming performance?
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Me personally? No, but that isn’t what I said.. I said people need to stop saying it puts less stress on them then gaming. It doesn’t, and it isn’t even close. If you say otherwise you’re either lying or have no idea what you’re talking about. Both would categorize you as someone who shouldn’t be bought from.
 
I would say it's similar to people buying a used car that was formerly part of a rental fleet. You just know that it is used in a different way than a "normal" used car that someone bought and owned for however long. It has multiple individuals drive it for short periods of time with little oversight and therefore they have little care for the vehicle - so it gets banged around.

Mining is to churn and burn - use the cards 24x7, mine, sell, and get new cards. Which, to me, as a video game player, is not ideal versus just buying new or from a gamer that is selling used.

I mean, shit, if anything, mining has kind of hosed the prospect of buying used anymore. It's riskier and now the prices are more stable (especially with Pascal's long legs) so last time I was in the market (last week) I just bought new. It just isn't worth the risk for the $50 savings.
 
RamonGTP said:
Me personally? No, but that isn’t what I said.. I said people need to stop saying it puts less stress on them then gaming. It doesn’t, and it isn’t even close. If you say otherwise you’re either lying or have no idea what you’re talking about. Both would categorize you as someone who shouldn’t be bought from.
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And where did I say it puts less stress? It's entirely different stress comparisons but having actually used cards that have been mined with for gaming purposes, in additional to having friends that still use 7950/7970s without issue for gaming, I'd say you have no idea what you are talking about. A well taken care of mining card is going to be able to perform and last for a gamer, no different than a non-mined on card. Period, end of discussion. I would have absolutely no qualms about buying a used mining card for either further mining purposes or gaming if it came from a serious miner (now, that's half the battle of weeding through the shit miners that go balls-to-the-wall). Frankly, non-miners need to quit parroting the same shit about former mining cards being used for gaming but they only do it because they are salty about gpus being less affordable than prior to mining.

As for buying from me, don't. I'd prefer not to deal with ignorant buyers; and full disclosure, when I do list cards (rare at best), I always state whether they have been mined on or not.
 
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oblox said:
And where did I say it puts less stress? It's entirely different stress comparisons but having actually used cards that have been mined with for gaming purposes, in additional to having friends that still use 7950/7970s without issue for gaming, I'd say you have no idea what you are talking about. A well taken care of mining card is going to be able to perform and last for a gamer, no different than a non-mined on card. Period, end of discussion. I would have absolutely no qualms about buying a used mining card for either further mining purposes or gaming if it came from a serious miner (now, that's half the battle of weeding through the shit miners that go balls-to-the-wall). Frankly, non-miners need to quit parroting the same shit about former mining cards being used for gaming.

As for buying from me, don't. I'd prefer not to deal with ignorant buyers; and full disclosure, when I do list cards (rare at best), I always state whether they have been mined on or not.
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It is in fact entirely different stress mechanisms. Mining puts more stress on every single component. GPU and power delivery for being under load 24/7, memory from being over locked to the moon AND being under load 24/7 and the fan for running 24/7

You can certainly buy a card that has been used for mining and have no problems, but your risk is significantly higher. Why do you think it’s common practice to disclose? You think people want to know if a card has been mined on because they’re getting a card in BETTER condition than a gaming card? Lol

You failed to mention any of that in your post and only mentioned temperature cycling (which they’re actually designed for) as some sort of benefit to buying a card that has been mined on. So which is it? Are you really that clueless or just FOS? Take your pick. After your most recent reply, I don’t see that you have a 3rd option.
 
RamonGTP said:
It is in fact entirely different stress mechanisms. Mining puts more stress on every single component. GPU and power delivery for being under load 24/7, memory from being over locked to the moon AND being under load 24/7 and the fan for running 24/7

You can certainly buy a card that has been used for mining and have no problems, but your risk is significantly higher. Why do you think it’s common practice to disclose? You think people want to know if a card has been mined on because they’re getting a card in BETTER condition than a gaming card? Lol

You failed to mention any of that in your post and only mentioned temperature cycling (which they’re actually designed for) as some sort of benefit to buying a card that has been mined on. So which is it? Are you really that clueless or just FOS? Take your pick. After your most recent reply, I don’t see that you have a 3rd option.
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Considering you nor I have quantifiable numbers, we're merely arguing opinions. You're of the opinion it's riskier for X reason, I'm of the opinion it's not for Y reason. People disclose because there are people that care (again, IMHO, for the wrong reason) about whether a card was mined on, no different than people disclosing whether something was utilized in a workbench setting, a folding environment, a review model, or any other countless descriptions about what the hell a person is buying. In my experience and from the days of prior mining, the fans are the first thing to go long before the silicon. Running fan speeds at 35-50% steady versus winding up to 85%+ and down (rinse and repeat) during an intense gaming sessions multiple days a week has the tendency to cause the fans to break down (mechanical anything is more prone to breakage).

As for memory clocks, while some miners can push a card hard in that regard, I'm willing to bet the majority have overclocks of being more inline with a respectable overclock (maybe in the ballpark of +125-300mhz). I suppose you have never overclocked a gpu, your cpu, or memory either.
 
Wow I didn't think my question would spark a debate. But all of this is good information anyway. I kind of figured it was on the thought that mining overstressed the cards even if that wasn't really the case. I personally don't game but I'm thinking of buying a used card and was only wondering if I should look into this as an option for my purchase. if the price is cheap enough and what I could use, I guess so for a $50 savings no I think not.
 
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jackofalltrades said:
Wow I didn't think my question would spark a debate. But all of this is good information anyway. I kind of figured it was on the thought that mining overstressed the cards even if that wasn't really the case. I personally don't game but I'm thinking of buying a used card and was only wondering if I should look into this as an option for my purchase. if the price is cheap enough and what I could use, I guess so for a $50 savings no I think not.
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Some guys that are getting out of mining and have a ton of cards to off load might cut you a deal. Kind of the nature of rolling the dice, though.
 
jackofalltrades said:
Wow I didn't think my question would spark a debate. But all of this is good information anyway. I kind of figured it was on the thought that mining overstressed the cards even if that wasn't really the case. I personally don't game but I'm thinking of buying a used card and was only wondering if I should look into this as an option for my purchase. if the price is cheap enough and what I could use, I guess so for a $50 savings no I think not.
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Imagine buying a car, after the fact you find out the shop had set the car on jackstands and ran 100,000 miles off the odometer by driving it in reverse. With that said Ive been mining since 2011 with a total of about 20 cards from 5830s to geforce 1080s. I have not had a single GPU failure some of them ran for 2 years 24x7. After then id give them to friends and family and far as i know they are still happily using them. When i mined i generally reduced volts and speeds to get the most hashrate for the least amount of dollars. I religiously kept temps under 80C too.

I don't believe that mining is always hard work for the video cards -- not all coins and configurations come close to fully utilization the entire video card, but the card is running 24x7 none the less.
 
It would be interesting to see from the GPU manufacturers perspective if their seeing an increase in the number of returns....individual anecdotal data isn't enough to form conclusions....we're just speculating as to the extend the damage is causing or not causing.
 
oblox said:
As for memory clocks, while some miners can push a card hard in that regard, I'm willing to bet the majority have overclocks of being more inline with a respectable overclock (maybe in the ballpark of +125-300mhz). I suppose you have never overclocked a gpu, your cpu, or memory either.
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What are you basing your first sentence on? Because I've read countless threads and individual posts on best settings to use for a variety of cards and from what I've seen, just about everyone is running memory clocks that would be completely unstable on that same card if they were to be gaming with it.
 
So that we can actually sell our cards and get a good dollar value for them, and also last a few more years than a mining card lasts after it has been used for two years 24/7/365 for mining.
 
The science is that the wires/devices in these cards do wear down as electric currents run through them, in a way like water erodes whatever they're flowing through. After a certain amount of use, some connection somewhere will break. When that happens, things stop working as they're designed to.
 
I game maybe 2 hours a day then put to sleep my gaming PC. Miners run their GPU's 24/7 and because they use many GPU cards close to each other it generates HEAT - lots of it. Heat is an electronics killer . So do you want to buy a used GPU card that was used 2-4 hrs/day or a GPU card that was run 24/7 in a hot setup ?
If you buy used GPU cards on eBay be aware there will be many mining cards sold there (now or at the least, in the near future for sure) that are not listed as being used for mining. I've spotted many already (one way to know is, they sell them in a quantity of six Used cards - mining cages with 6 GPU slots are popular).
Be wise, save up your $$$ and buy NEW if you can. EVGA has 24/7 free phone tech support and a replacement warranty program with cross-shipping second to none ... IMHO no other company comes close ...
 
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freddy419 said:
The science is that the wires/devices in these cards do wear down as electric currents run through them, in a way like water erodes whatever they're flowing through. After a certain amount of use, some connection somewhere will break. When that happens, things stop working as they're designed to.
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I am an EE and I've never seen that as a derating on any component, ever.

Deratings for heat is normal though.
 
I’m not going to get in the debate but wanted to point something out. When ever these threads come up, look at who’s commenting. It’s generally 2 groups - People who don’t want to buy used mining cards, and people who sell mining cards trying to convince everyone that their cards are fine.
 
AltTabbins said:
I’m not going to get in the debate but wanted to point something out. When ever these threads come up, look at who’s commenting. It’s generally 2 groups - People who don’t want to buy used mining cards, and people who sell mining cards trying to convince everyone that their cards are fine.
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OP didn't say anything that supports either side. A thread like this is good for posterity. If you care enough, you'll look it up. Not you specifically, but someone in the market. Piece of mind at minimum just to know what you're getting into.
 
One could argue that a card used for Distributed Computing would have more "stress" on them than a mined card, but I don't see anyone around here wondering if cards have been running DC project such as GPUGrid of F@H. Why? Because it doesn't matter. Mining, gaming, DCing, if the card is gonna fail it's gonna fail if it's not then it's not.
 
freddy419 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration

Read that and be a better EE
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Dayaks is right, it is really not an issue to worry about.

If you don't believe us (both EEs) - I'll quote the link you posted:
"In modern consumer electronic devices, ICs rarely fail due to electromigration effects. This is because proper semiconductor design practices incorporate the effects of electromigration into the IC's layout."

When we design chips (and boards), we're actually are expecting you to run them 24/7. That's not the exception, it's the expectation.
 
PhaseNoise said:
Dayaks is right, it is really not an issue to worry about.

If you don't believe us (both EEs) - I'll quote the link you posted:
"In modern consumer electronic devices, ICs rarely fail due to electromigration effects. This is because proper semiconductor design practices incorporate the effects of electromigration into the IC's layout."

When we design chips (and boards), we're actually are expecting you to run them 24/7. That's not the exception, it's the expectation.
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As an EE PhD, I know for a fact it's not 24/7 and only for a limited lifespan.

This discussion is getting idiotic. Let's just agree that the OP's original question about why cards used for mining have high mileage are because of high mileage.
 
I don't think you need to be an EE to know that not all components are equal. These days, the quality of individual components are vastly better in some cases and vastly worse in others. Maybe graphics cards have the best components relatively speaking compared to motherboards or power supplies. I can see that. But all it takes is that one. A phrase that comes up in my mind and still holds true to do this day is "you're only as strong as your weakest link". Under "normal" usage this component would be fine, but under constant stress it will eventually fail. Let's say after 10,000 hours for shits and giggles. A mined card will hit that number much sooner. On the flipside, when conductive materials cycle through hot and cold on a regular basis it can cause premature failure. Kind of how light bulbs often pop when you flip the switch on. That same light bulb may have lasted a lot longer if it was just left on. Anyway, personally I'm in the camp that mined cards should be avoided, however for the right price I might go for it. With the current market, it just makes sense to buy new right now. Piece of mind which is very important.
 
CruisD64 said:
I don't think you need to be an EE to know that not all components are equal. These days, the quality of individual components are vastly better in some cases and vastly worse in others. Maybe graphics cards have the best components relatively speaking compared to motherboards or power supplies. I can see that. But all it takes is that one. A phrase that comes up in my mind and still holds true to do this day is "you're only as strong as your weakest link". Under "normal" usage this component would be fine, but under constant stress it will eventually fail. Let's say after 10,000 hours for shits and giggles. A mined card will hit that number much sooner. On the flipside, when conductive materials cycle through hot and cold on a regular basis it can cause premature failure. Kind of how light bulbs often pop when you flip the switch on. That same light bulb may have lasted a lot longer if it was just left on. Anyway, personally I'm in the camp that mined cards should be avoided, however for the right price I might go for it. With the current market, it just makes sense to buy new right now. Piece of mind which is very important.
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Great answer
 
freddy419 said:
Sure thing. Just find a pleasure island to vacation at for 4 years and it can be arranged.
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The closest island to where I went to school is Alcatraz, I think. Not sure that qualifies as a pleasure island. :)
 
Considering I am mining on some 7950's from 2012 that were used in the litecoin days.........I have no idea why people get their pants in a wad over it. Nobody asks someone selling a used CPU, "How much rendering did it do in PovRay? Was it idling or clocking up when you owned it?"

Mostly butthurt gamers mad about GPU prices being high demanding a discount I think.

Last time I sold off all my mining cards (here on [H]), not one person complained of problems with the video cards. I was even expecting problems and told people to let me know if they have issues.
 
I'll leave one final post on this topic:

"Purists" that get all high and mighty about not mining on cards is ironic given that this is a site primarily dedicated to PC enthusiasts. Never before has this sinkhole of hobby allowed someone to recoup (if not make money) some of the costs of building a badass rig. Frankly, if you do have a badass rig and you aren't mining while profitability is awesome then you must be the same kind of person that walks around and avoids picking up $50 or even $100 bills on the ground month after month. If you don't want to build a mining farm fine, don't, but if you already have a sweet gaming rig, there is no reason not to be mining when you aren't gaming (the exception being high power areas).

For all those talking about discounts for mining cards, go pick up an economics book. Supply and demand. The prices you are experiencing today reflect the market landscape, for better or worse. Any true deviation from the current market price is going to be scooped up, most likely by miners anyway. With transferable warranties based off serial numbers from many manufacturers, anyone avoiding a mining card because of your internal misconception is idiotic.
 
thebufenator said:
Considering I am mining on some 7950's from 2012 that were used in the litecoin days.........I have no idea why people get their pants in a wad over it. Nobody asks someone selling a used CPU, "How much rendering did it do in PovRay? Was it idling or clocking up when you owned it?"

Mostly butthurt gamers mad about GPU prices being high demanding a discount I think.

Last time I sold off all my mining cards (here on [H]), not one person complained of problems with the video cards. I was even expecting problems and told people to let me know if they have issues.
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I agree...CPU's undergo a lot of stress (as do many many components)....as long as there kept cool and not over-volted I wouldn't think twice about buying a mining card. But to each there own!
 
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