Games Could Be Hit Hard by Net Neutrality’s Death

Megalith

Megalith

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GamesIndustry.biz warns that ISPs could introduce premium gaming plans that give you high-speed access to services like Xbox Live, PlayStation Network, and Steam. If you're a serious gamer and want fast download speeds and low latency for online gaming on these services, you'd have no choice but to pay the extra money to subscribe.

What this all amounts to, sadly, is class warfare. It turns the internet into a world of haves and have-nots, and we already have enough of that in the games industry to begin with. The richest gamers will have the best bandwidth and lowest latency, gaining an unfair advantage in competitive online games, while the biggest and richest games companies will be able to throw their considerable weight around so that the little guys don't even have a fighting chance.
 
RaxusCraxurFace said:
There was no online gaming before 2015. All ISP's charged a billion extra dollars for online gaming before 2015.
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What? Silly argument. Use of bandwidth is growing at incredible amounts and ISPs are using that as an argument to cap or restrict.

Just cause people gamed prior to Net Neutrality and there weren't fast lane models doesn't mean that they won't come. Let's quit with the politics of this and just all agree this is a VERY bad thing.
 
Well if Comcast decides to put in tiered plans based on what you do online whether it's games or netflix or watching cat videos, then I'll leave them as soon as I set up an appointment replacement. Only reason I'm with them now is unfortunately they are the best bang for the buck, and it's a whole lot of bang too.
 
haste. said:
What? Silly argument. Use of bandwidth is growing at incredible amounts and ISPs are using that as an argument to cap or restrict.

Just cause people gamed prior to Net Neutrality and there weren't fast lane models doesn't mean that they won't come. Let's quit with the politics of this and just all agree this is a VERY bad thing.
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The government regulating the internet is a bad thing and i will never say its not.

Government has done such a bang up job with ISP's hasn't it? Its the fault of government we have only a handful of ISP's, that are all shit, to choose from.

FFS lets just let government control absolutely everything. It's worked out so well at the VA, with student loans, the ACA, cash for clunkers, is there anything that the government gets its hands on that doesn't turn to absolute shit?
 
RaxusCraxurFace said:
The government regulating the internet is a bad thing and i will never say its not.

Government has done such a bang up job with ISP's hasn't it? Its the fault of government we have only a handful of ISP's, that are all shit, to choose from.

FFS lets just let government control absolutely everything. It's worked out so well at the VA, with student loans, the ACA, cash for clunkers, is there anything that the government gets its hands on that doesn't turn to absolute shit?
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Well to use your own earlier comment.

There were a multitude of choices before 2015, you could get many true broadband options to choose before 2015!
 
RaxusCraxurFace said:
The government regulating the internet is a bad thing and i will never say its not.

Government has done such a bang up job with ISP's hasn't it? Its the fault of government we have only a handful of ISP's, that are all shit, to choose from.

FFS lets just let government control absolutely everything. It's worked out so well at the VA, with student loans, the ACA, cash for clunkers, is there anything that the government gets its hands on that doesn't turn to absolute shit?
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So you want to trust the corporation? That's historically had wonderful success for the consumer! :rolleyes:

It's fairly evident you are part of the segment that hates "big gubment" and cherry picking a few examples that are literally apples to oranges versus a utility as internet access should be (it checks all the boxes if you haven't looked recently).
 
haste. said:
So you want to trust the corporation? That's historically had wonderful success for the consumer! :rolleyes:

It's fairly evident you are part of the segment that hates "big gubment" and cherry picking a few examples that are literally apples to oranges versus a utility as internet access should be (it checks all the boxes if you haven't looked recently).
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He's right, though. Cronyism is rampant in the telecoms, and local monopolies are the direct result of it. I remember 20 years ago having around 7 competing options locally for my cable TV and 9 additional options for internet access. There was one national provider among those options. For at least the past decade I've had only two options, both national providers, and only one is viable.
 
Most regulations end up increasing cost and lowering value. But I'm fine with regulations that manage monopolies and subsidies.

Life before 2015 was great, we can go back right? Well pre-2015 Comcast repeatedly promised us that there would be no fast lanes. Why? because they wanted government to back off on regulations.

Fast forward today. Somehow that promise is no longer there. Now, they merely promise no throttling. Because if you only upgrade fast lanes and leave the rest to languish it technically isn't throttling.
 
RaxusCraxurFace said:
Government has done such a bang up job with ISP's hasn't it? Its the fault of government we have only a handful of ISP's, that are all shit, to choose from.
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Do you not think the ISP's themselves had a big hand in this to begin with? Just because they managed to manipulate the gov't into doing what they wanted doesnt mean we'd have this wonderful utopia with dozens of local competitors all offering quality services if left to themselves. In fact it would probably be even worse, you'd have just ONE isp to choose from. This is how monopoly's form.
 
haste. said:
So you want to trust the corporation? That's historically had wonderful success for the consumer! :rolleyes:

It's fairly evident you are part of the segment that hates "big gubment" and cherry picking a few examples that are literally apples to oranges versus a utility as internet access should be (it checks all the boxes if you haven't looked recently).
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My utilities charge me differing rates depending on when I use their services, they also charge me more the more I use. So I pay more for power during the daylight hours, and pay for more electricity the more I use. If you want the internet to be like a utility, then be ready for the very thing you seem to think you're arguing against being mandated by the government. The power lines are not 'power neutrality' enabled, why should internet lines?

Beyond that, the government is why there are so few competitors in the broadband/ISP space, so the solution to that is to ask the government to control it even more? That makes brilliant sense.

*note* I want ISPs to be 'dumb pipes' I want them to provide traffic as quickly as I am paying them a flat rate to do so. However, this comparison to utilities while ignoring how utilities are actually managed/governed is ludicrous.
 
Armenius said:
He's right, though. Cronyism is rampant in the telecoms, and local monopolies are the direct result of it. I remember 20 years ago having around 7 competing options locally for my cable TV and 9 additional options for internet access. There was one national provider among those options. For at least the past decade I've had only two options, both national providers, and only one is viable.
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In my area 2 decades ago we had one choice for high speed which eventually become comcast - contradictory to my point comcast has never abused policy up here either and have the ability to do so since the competition is very thin in the suburbs, but that's besides the fact.

Ironically we now have more options and even some small players laying fiber. My brother moved recently and the only regret he had was that he had to sacrifice his fiber; the company grandfathered all current costumers in at whatever they were paying - they moved him from 1m down to 1g down for the same price! USI is the company, I work with them professionally but they don't offer service on my side of town. Fantastically ethical organization; great management.
 
gxp500 said:
I can see it now, the gamer package.
250+ ping = free
150-250 ping = $2.99 per month
50-150 ping = $4.99 per month
10-50 ping = $6.99 per month
Under 5 ping = $9.99 per month.
Order today!
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I doubt they even know what ping is. Whenever I see a gamer tier its always more download speed.
 
ScottSummers79 said:
My utilities charge me differing rates depending on when I use their services, they also charge me more the more I use. So I pay more for power during the daylight hours, and pay for more electricity the more I use. If you want the internet to be like a utility, then be ready for the very thing you seem to think you're arguing against being mandated by the government. The power lines are not 'power neutrality' enabled, why should internet lines?

Beyond that, the government is why there are so few competitors in the broadband/ISP space, so the solution to that is to ask the government to control it even more? That makes brilliant sense.

*note* I want ISPs to be 'dumb pipes' I want them to provide traffic as quickly as I am paying them a flat rate to do so. However, this comparison to utilities while ignoring how utilities are actually managed/governed is ludicrous.
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Your energy company also has a finite amount of supply... so again apples to oranges. Your water isn't priced the same way. The utility argument is that it is necessary for people to have access to the internet in this day and age - ISP can't make the same argument as the electrical companies my friend.
 
nysmo said:
Do you not think the ISP's themselves had a big hand in this to begin with? Just because they managed to manipulate the gov't into doing what they wanted doesnt mean we'd have this wonderful utopia with dozens of local competitors all offering quality services if left to themselves. In fact it would probably be even worse, you'd have just ONE isp to choose from. This is how monopoly's form.
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The regulations that government has happily put in place to line their pockets are what caused the current state of broadband in the US. With all the red tape it is prohibitively expensive in both time and money for competing providers to sprout up.
 
Given a choice between Big Government and Big Business, only a fool would choose Big Government. You can fight a big corporation, very easily in the 21st century actually......try fighting a big government (hint: Go outside, scream at the sky).

You guys thinking Comcast is suddenly going to fuck everyone with an ISP account, um, paranoid much? Will costs go up? Maybe....do costs keep going up? Yeah, last time I checked actually...so where's the big reveal there?

Government "Businesses" are the ultimate monopoly, as they never compete with anyone and define their own success......the VA alone should make you stop and realize any government business is a nightmare waiting to happen.
 
HeadRusch said:
Given a choice between Big Government and Big Business, only a fool would choose Big Government. You can fight a big corporation, very easily in the 21st century actually......try fighting a big government (hint: Go outside, scream at the sky).

You guys thinking Comcast is suddenly going to fuck everyone with an ISP account, um, paranoid much? Will costs go up? Maybe....do costs keep going up? Yeah, last time I checked actually...so where's the big reveal there?

Government "Businesses" are the ultimate monopoly, as they never compete with anyone and define their own success......the VA alone should make you stop and realize any government business is a nightmare waiting to happen.
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Seriously man. Who do you think runs "Big Government"? Corporation is Big Government and the only thing that could even potentially protect the consumer is the flipping government. I work in FI - I hate the CFPB, but I also understand how important they are because of rampant horrific behavior by the people that have the most power. It's the very reason that the most recent appointment of the new CFPB head sickens me - this man will deregulate so all the uninformed can get screwed once more.
 
haste. said:
Your energy company also has a finite amount of supply... so again apples to oranges. Your water isn't priced the same way. The utility argument is that it is necessary for people to have access to the internet in this day and age - ISP can't make the same argument as the electrical companies my friend.
Click to expand...

Comcast has a finite amount (supply) of traffic that can be transmitted through their network as well, without building new infrastructure to handle it. Power company can only provide so much power without building additional infrastructure to handle it.

Are you implying that not everyone finds it necessary to have access to water or electricity?

My water rates fluctuate based on the time of year. I live in Florida and when we get hit with higher usage due to snowbirds and/or tourists, we pay a bit more for our water than we do the rest of the time.

Please try again, my friend.
 
RaxusCraxurFace said:
The government regulating the internet is a bad thing and i will never say its not.

Government has done such a bang up job with ISP's hasn't it? Its the fault of government we have only a handful of ISP's, that are all shit, to choose from.

FFS lets just let government control absolutely everything. It's worked out so well at the VA, with student loans, the ACA, cash for clunkers, is there anything that the government gets its hands on that doesn't turn to absolute shit?
Click to expand...

The real problem is the Telecommunications Act of 1996, which essentially created regional monopolies. And guess what? Wheeler's FCC was taking action against them. Now they're ingrained, and within a decade the Internet will be broken up just like network TV. Just you watch, it's going to happen.

Secondly, most government run services are run reasonably well. The VA is all special kinds of fucked up because you have a half-hearted attempt to duplicate services that already exist at the lowest possible cost. You get what you pay for.

Your other examples are examples of good things. Without government backed student loans, you'd have a much lower college enrollment rate. If anything there needs to be significantly more oversight to cut down the abuses by the banks that leads to predatory loans government (and by extension, you) are on the hook for. The ACA has been a massive success; you have more people getting health insurance, and rates are going up at about the same rate as they were before the ACA went into force.
 
Gaming is a giant industry, of course these companies want a slice of the pie. Is everyone forgetting the Comcast/Netflix peering dispute? That's the type of shit that happens when you let these companies go unchecked. Expect a lot more of that. Why upgrade congested interfaces when you can slow everyone down, and make even more money by charging for prioritized access?

Anyway, nothing is going to happen overnight. It'll be a calculated, meticulous process over a number of years.
 
DocNo said:
Fine by me - maybe this will drive some love back towards the single player game side of things.
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Again, thinking too small. Cut all government services that, at the end of the day, just try (badly) to redistribute money to those who need it. Replace all of it with a ~$30k UBI.
 
I think around 3 years ago. I couldn't watch live streams or video at 30fps unless I dropped it to around 240p. It would happen at certain times during that day. Made twitch useless at certain hours
 
gxp500 said:
I can see it now, the gamer package.
250+ ping* = free
150-250 ping* = $2.99 per month
50-150 ping* = $4.99 per month
10-50 ping* = $6.99 per month
Under 5 ping* = $9.99 per month.
Order today!

* Ping speeds are a representation of what you could possibly get, other circumstances outside of our control may influence your actual speed
Click to expand...
Fixed it for you
 
HeadRusch said:
Given a choice between Big Government and Big Business, only a fool would choose Big Government. You can fight a big corporation, very easily in the 21st century actually......try fighting a big government (hint: Go outside, scream at the sky).

You guys thinking Comcast is suddenly going to fuck everyone with an ISP account, um, paranoid much? Will costs go up? Maybe....do costs keep going up? Yeah, last time I checked actually...so where's the big reveal there?

Government "Businesses" are the ultimate monopoly, as they never compete with anyone and define their own success......the VA alone should make you stop and realize any government business is a nightmare waiting to happen.
Click to expand...

1) You actually can't fight a big corporation. The all force abitration now.
2) No, you're right, they will make it better. Nothing to see here, move along.
3) VA is actually better than vast majority of hospitals now. It's not 2012 anymore.
4) Please vote for your state to remove traffic lights, because big gub'ment shouldn't tell you which side of the road to drive on.
 
HeadRusch said:
Given a choice between Big Government and Big Business, only a fool would choose Big Government. You can fight a big corporation, very easily in the 21st century actually......try fighting a big government (hint: Go outside, scream at the sky).
Click to expand...
I dunno, how many here hated the ACA (aka Obamacare)? Took a new president from the other side to make it effectively go away. How many here hates the idea of data caps or throttling for "unlimited" service? Any change in sight of that changing?
 
I don't trust the corporations to be for the consumer and less for the shareholder (I'm a strong believer in treating the consumer right will boost profits and the share price in the long run).
I don't trust the government to regulate ... well, much of anything.

I believe in net neutrality. I just don't trust the government enough to manage it. All bits matter. They should deliver bits at the advertised speed. If it's 25Mbps, they should be able to do things at 25Mbps - torrents, Netflix, or basic email and pictures from the grandkids. Max it out or use it very little.
 
Good grief! How many armchair economists are on this site?

Regulatory capture isn't evidence that regulation is bad for consumers. Quite the opposite, actually. Which also happens to be why IT HAS A NAME.

*facepalm*
 
Did congress pass a law, finally, requiring that you purchase internet access? Vote with your wallets.
 
This is a lot of hand wringing and nonsense. I just don't see ISP's playing games with latency, and gaming, in general, is low bandwidth. It's just the downloading of the game, and updates.

It really just screams "the sky is falling." when there is zero evidence that this has happened, or going to happen.
 
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