Forza, Vega destroys 1080ti

A 1080TI goes from 110FPS in 1080P to 90FPS in 4K.

And someone took it serious?

Let me guess, this is like Warhammer (I) where NVidia cards magically lost 30% by using DX12 instead of DX11 because AMD made the DX12 implementation? :D

Vega 64 have been near 1070 speeds in most newer games.
 
Shintai said:
A 1080TI goes from 110FPS in 1080P to 90FPS in 4K.

And someone took it serious?

Let me guess, this is like Warhammer (I) where NVidia cards magically lost 30% by using DX12 instead of DX11 because AMD made the DX12 implementation? :D

Vega 64 have been near 1070 speeds in most newer games.
Click to expand...

But this thread is about Vega outperforming the Ti in Forza.
 
legcramp said:
But this thread is about Vega outperforming the Ti in Forza.
Click to expand...

Its anything but a graphics bottleneck.

Forza-7-RX-Vega-64-GTX-1080-Ti-4K-ComputerBase.png


Here is another hint:
9e8d5a878b6ee64246d0e52e38270d7d1fed5a41d54da0bd819ab15f1ffb560f.png
 
If is was CPU limited, then why would Vega be winning?

Forza-7-RX-Vega-64-GTX-1080-Ti-1080p-ComputerBase.png


Really what I think this shows is the actual power of AMD cards when a developer fully utilizes them.
 
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cybereality said:
It is was CPU limited, then why would Vega be winning?

Forza-7-RX-Vega-64-GTX-1080-Ti-1080p-ComputerBase.png
Click to expand...

High CPU utilization is only happening on nV cards, that is why frame times are going all over the place on nV cards. Developer is aware of this problem, They even noted on some systems a single core is tasked 100% while other cores are less utilized. They did this to improve (decrease) input lag. We have seen this behavior before with Forza 3 and the dev fixed it later on. We have also see this in Hitman and AOTS when they were released too.

http://www.game-debate.com/news/237...cpu-core-this-is-intentional-says-turn-10-dev
 
Oh boy here it comes....waiting on the kids of nVidia to wake up in the morning and see this thread. A new hurricane is brewing.

/e Tangoseal has bag full of popcorn and a beer
 
tangoseal said:
Oh boy here it comes....waiting on the kids of nVidia to wake up in the morning and see this thread. A new hurricane is brewing.

/e Tangoseal has bag full of popcorn and a beer
Click to expand...

Ye a bugged game that raised your hopes for your favourite company so you could have gone all AMD instead of dirty Nvidia cards in your pristine system. :D

Dont worry, #waitfornavi will fix it all!

/me grabs popcorn
 
tangoseal said:
Oh boy here it comes....waiting on the kids of nVidia to wake up in the morning and see this thread. A new hurricane is brewing.

/e Tangoseal has bag full of popcorn and a beer
Click to expand...


Well if you want to believe the Dev or not, they fucked something up pretty much. In their own words certain hardware uses 100% of one core...... Actually the engine developer later on stated it shouldn't have that behavior the engine was made to scale across all cores well, so its something the game developer did.
 
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Shintai said:
Ye a bugged game that raised your hopes for your favourite company so you could have gone all AMD instead of dirty Nvidia cards in your pristine system. :D

Dont worry, #waitfornavi will fix it all!

/me grabs popcorn
Click to expand...

I seriously do not understand you man. You seem like you are mad at the world (or just hate AMD anything)...Let's dig a bit deeper here. What is going on in your life? You know you aren't alone if you need someone to talk things over...CCity is just a PM away, and I bet Kyle might even listen for a bit (but you would get a poof)...You just seem like you need an internet hug it out. Intel's stock will recover, don't worry. AMD will not continue destroying them in performance/watt forever. Or Price/Performance. It will change. Relax. Now you owe me $1000 for this deep insight into your admittedly blue/green soul.

Oh, on topic. I am still super happy with my VEGA purchase. So much so that I am going to pick up another pair for some more GPU mining goodness when I return this fall. Gotta love moving 2 sliders and getting 1080+ performance with freesync to boot.;)
 
ccityinstaller said:
I seriously do not understand you man. You seem like you are mad at the world (or just hate AMD anything)...Let's dig a bit deeper here. What is going on in your life? You know you aren't alone if you need someone to talk things over...CCity is just a PM away, and I bet Kyle might even listen for a bit (but you would get a poof)...You just seem like you need an internet hug it out. Intel's stock will recover, don't worry. AMD will not continue destroying them in performance/watt forever. Or Price/Performance. It will change. Relax. Now you owe me $1000 for this deep insight into your admittedly blue/green soul.

Oh, on topic. I am still super happy with my VEGA purchase. So much so that I am going to pick up another pair for some more GPU mining goodness when I return this fall. Gotta love moving 2 sliders and getting 1080+ performance with freesync to boot.;)
Click to expand...


I would wait for the 1070ti benchmarks, ETH mining is out the window man, difficulty has more than doubled this past 2 month, and now its getting only half the profits of the other alt coins, I have sold all but one of AMD rigs now (12 rigs, 72 cards all sold)..... I have been switching over to nV cards for this specific reason, at some point it makes no sense and that point is less than a 1 buck a card inclusive of power usage.

Just for comparison, all my 1070s still get 2- 2.5 bucks after power usage per card on other alt coins.....

Vega is in the same boat as Polaris, with other alt coins it will get about half the hashrates of its potential competitor on the eth mining market, so if the 1070 is getting 450 sols on equihash (zcash), expect Vega to do much worse.
 
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razor1 said:
Well if you want to believe the Dev or not, they fucked something up pretty much. In their own words certain hardware uses 100% of one core...... Actually the engine developer later on stated it shouldn't have that behavior the engine was made to scale across all cores well, so its something the game developer did.
Click to expand...

The show of low GPU utilization and pegged single core wasn´t enough of a hint I guess :D
 
razor1 said:
I would wait for the 1070ti benchmarks, ETH mining is out the window man, difficulty has more than doubled this past 2 month, and now its getting only half the profits of the other alt coins, I have sold all but one of AMD rigs now (12 rigs, 72 cards all sold)..... I have been switching over to nV cards for this specific reason, at some point it makes no sense and that point is less than a 1 buck a card inclusive of power usage.

Just for comparison, all my 1070s still get 2- 2.5 bucks after power usage per card on other alt coins.....

Vega is in the same boat as Polaris, with other alt coins it will get about half the hashrates of its potential competitor on the eth mining market, so if the 1070 is getting 450 sols on equihash (zcash), expect Vega to do much worse.
Click to expand...


We are a bit off topic here, but yes I have seen the Eth difficulty increase over the last few weeks. I still have a rig running 3 290s that has paid for itself 6X over in mining. That rig is still making me $65+ a month after power usage. I am going to keep running it until it isn't profitable since the extra heat is extremely welcome as I have a large house and the lower half is always 4-5F colder in the fall and winter and that rig is keeping my living room much more comfortable.

As for VEGA, I have been having trouble getting Claymore's dual miner working on Win7. I set it up and it keeps giving me a DAG error even though it sees the card with the proper amount of Vram specified. I am playing around with NiceHash at the moment, and with my PL @ -15% and 1V Vcore 1100Mhz HBM I am making $2.15 a day. Not bad but not super great either. Thankfully the room I use as a home office is really only meant to be used for 3 seasons and I use it year round so I normally have to run an extra heater in here. Now I have a 420W (total system draw at the wall with 138W being used by my cpu/pump/fans idling at the desktop lol) heater that is paying me to heat it! If you wanna help me with my Claymore issues I am all ears. I know you have had quite a bit of experience with it.
 
ccityinstaller said:
We are a bit off topic here, but yes I have seen the Eth difficulty increase over the last few weeks. I still have a rig running 3 290s that has paid for itself 6X over in mining. That rig is still making me $65+ a month after power usage. I am going to keep running it until it isn't profitable since the extra heat is extremely welcome as I have a large house and the lower half is always 4-5F colder in the fall and winter and that rig is keeping my living room much more comfortable.

As for VEGA, I have been having trouble getting Claymore's dual miner working on Win7. I set it up and it keeps giving me a DAG error even though it sees the card with the proper amount of Vram specified. I am playing around with NiceHash at the moment, and with my PL @ -15% and 1V Vcore 1100Mhz HBM I am making $2.15 a day. Not bad but not super great either. Thankfully the room I use as a home office is really only meant to be used for 3 seasons and I use it year round so I normally have to run an extra heater in here. Now I have a 420W (total system draw at the wall with 138W being used by my cpu/pump/fans idling at the desktop lol) heater that is paying me to heat it! If you wanna help me with my Claymore issues I am all ears. I know you have had quite a bit of experience with it.
Click to expand...

$2.15 after power costs I hope?

And to my knowledge Vega crossfire isn't working and AMD was back away from supporting it?
 
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ccityinstaller said:
We are a bit off topic here, but yes I have seen the Eth difficulty increase over the last few weeks. I still have a rig running 3 290s that has paid for itself 6X over in mining. That rig is still making me $65+ a month after power usage. I am going to keep running it until it isn't profitable since the extra heat is extremely welcome as I have a large house and the lower half is always 4-5F colder in the fall and winter and that rig is keeping my living room much more comfortable.

As for VEGA, I have been having trouble getting Claymore's dual miner working on Win7. I set it up and it keeps giving me a DAG error even though it sees the card with the proper amount of Vram specified. I am playing around with NiceHash at the moment, and with my PL @ -15% and 1V Vcore 1100Mhz HBM I am making $2.15 a day. Not bad but not super great either. Thankfully the room I use as a home office is really only meant to be used for 3 seasons and I use it year round so I normally have to run an extra heater in here. Now I have a 420W (total system draw at the wall with 138W being used by my cpu/pump/fans idling at the desktop lol) heater that is paying me to heat it! If you wanna help me with my Claymore issues I am all ears. I know you have had quite a bit of experience with it.
Click to expand...


290's are better than rx 480's and rx 580's right now, currently my 6 card rx 580 rig is getting 200 a month without power consumption calculated in with power its about 170. this is dual mining pascal. Getting like a buck a day at most right now per card, which is way too low to keep them around. Vega I would expect maybe 50 cents more per card at most over the 580's so at this point its not that great to mine ETH. I've switched over to nice hash for all my nV rigs and am getting 400 bucks a month on a 6 card 1070 rig, so that is the way to go right now. Although nicehash, doesn't work well with less than 16 gb of ram, its pretty intensive on the CPU for what reason. Had to up the ram on them otherwise they crash ever 2 hours or so with the 8 gigs I had before.

PMed ya about claymore.
 
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I just love how GPU "racing", is like F1 racing.

No doubt 1080ti is the Mercedes of GPUs.

But just like today in the Malaysian GP, where the Red Bulls were the ones kicking ass, in this game team red is kicking ass.

Unlike some here, I enjoy competition, specially when it is not just the one team winning every race

Edit: and just like F1, when they underperform in a wet race, oh it is the weather, like it was only raining on one car LOL.

GPUs, same. AMD: games are not taking advantage of our architecture. Nvidia: oh this game is fucked.
 
Hawaii Pro yet still impressing us by adding the 970GTX 1060GTX and may someday add the 1070GTX to it's death row march across every architurer Nvidia has made to date.

Year after year Hawaii keeps getting more powerful.
 
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crazycrave said:
Hawaii Pro yet still impressing us by adding the 970GTX 1060GTX and almost got the 1070GTX to it's death row march across every architurer Nvidia has made to date.

Year after year Hawaii keeps getting more powerful.
Click to expand...

That's basically been debunked...

https://m.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/30/amd_video_card_driver_performance_review_fine_wine/14


And this game hasn't even launched yet... it's from Microsoft so it could just stay in a state of shitty optimization. We'll see. But this feels a lot like Ashes of the Singularity where AMD did alright but everyone just ignored all the graphical corruption.
 
FPS results look like a CPU bottleneck on Nvidia at first glance. 1080 and Ti are really close, as resolution increases, Nvidia passes AMD, which is the opposite of normal.
Comparing between AMD cards, Vega is a lot higher than it should be relative to the non-Vega GPUs, could be the new FP16 at play.
 
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cybereality said:
Nvidia wins a benchmark: AMD doomed as a company.
AMD wins a benchmark: Game must have a bug in it.
Click to expand...

More like it doesn’t matter to either side since fanbois do a good job flinging shit in both directions.

Still feel good about my flagship purpose earlier his year just like I will next year.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
FPS results look like a CPU bottleneck on Nvidia at first glance. 1080 and Ti are really close, as resolution increases, Nvidia passes AMD, which is the opposite of normal.
Comparing between AMD cards, Vega is a lot higher than it should be relative to the non-Vega GPUs, could be the new FP16 at play.
Click to expand...

Its not FP16. GPU utilization is also very low on NVidia cards and perhaps older AMD cards.
http://www.game-debate.com/news/237...cpu-core-this-is-intentional-says-turn-10-dev

The buglist is also plain gross. Graphics corruption on cards, up to 8 minutes to load a stage etc.

And anything over the framerate cap is questionable as well. Plus stuttering and performance issues with high refresh rate monitors.
 
Looks like a fun game but Project Cars 2 has my interest more due to good VR support.

From the data I do find it interesting that the FuryX is in line with what is to be expected compared to the 1070 (slightly slower). Why is Vega way different? Once more of the bugs and the drivers fix anything grossly wrong, this will be an interesting title to watch. Is this Vega unleashed? Or just bugged drivers from Nvidia out the gate? I would not make too much of it, it is still only one game. Wolfenstein will be interesting how it performs with the different graphics cards later this month as well.
 
cybereality said:
Nvidia wins a benchmark: AMD doomed as a company.
AMD wins a benchmark: Game must have a bug in it.
Click to expand...

Try this:
Performance aberration in benchmark: AMD is winning!
Expected results in benchmark: AMD is doomed!

If Vega is turning out better numbers than a 1080Ti, especially relative to performance delta across the greater majority of current games, that warrants a look, because it's unexpected.

If upon inspection GPU utilization is lower and CPU utilization is higher, then the natural conclusion is that something is wrong with the Nvidia codepath with this specific game. This is supported by the game not yet being released, the engine developer stating that this is not typical behavior, and the game developer stating that they made changes to the engine.

The expected end result should be that Vega performance is probably close to where it should be, but that 1080Ti performance should jump once appropriate fixes have been made in the game and/or drivers, and the 1080 should be close to Vega.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Try this:
Performance aberration in benchmark: AMD is winning!
Expected results in benchmark: AMD is doomed!

If Vega is turning out better numbers than a 1080Ti, especially relative to performance delta across the greater majority of current games, that warrants a look, because it's unexpected.

If upon inspection GPU utilization is lower and CPU utilization is higher, then the natural conclusion is that something is wrong with the Nvidia codepath with this specific game. This is supported by the game not yet being released, the engine developer stating that this is not typical behavior, and the game developer stating that they made changes to the engine.

The expected end result should be that Vega performance is probably close to where it should be, but that 1080Ti performance should jump once appropriate fixes have been made in the game and/or drivers, and the 1080 should be close to Vega.
Click to expand...
So what is your take on others where the 1070 is equal or better than Vega64? Cant have it both ways.
 
JustReason said:
So what is your take on others where the 1070 is equal or better than Vega64? Cant have it both ways.
Click to expand...


That is not a game bug though, that is a Vega driver issue, cause if it was a bug in AMD's path you will see it on other AMD cards, which doesn't happen.

And those games are few and far between like one out of ever 10 games.
 
razor1 said:
That is not a game bug though, that is a Vega driver issue, cause if it was a bug in AMD's path you will see it on other AMD cards, which doesn't happen.

And those games are few and far between like one out of ever 10 games.
Click to expand...

I guess the reality is that AMD and Nvidia have enough design/architectural differences that we will always have developers having to make choices where sometimes it benefits one more than the other.

Probably those choices are more often based on business decisions than technical, so I find some of the arguments in these forums quite amusing.

But I guess some people need to show off their "knowledge superiority" somewhere.
 
Nvidia drivers suck.

Or Xbox one X super optimized game, the fact it can do 4k 90fps at 8x MSAA is pretty good, especially if it's CPU bottlenecked as some claim.
 
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