NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Chapeau said:
The noise arises from two different fronts:
1 - Fan speed. I'm sure you're running them pretty high to keep things under control.
2 - Radiator fin / fan interaction. This can't really be changed unless you try to smooth things out. For example you can install a fan gasket to give the air more chance to straighten out before it starts interacting with the fins. Using a stator to straighten the fan airflow before it hits the radiator would be even better still, although that's not practical in the M1. Or you can grab a different radiator with fewer fins or a different fin shape.

My advice as always - Cut the bottom of the case out, use a low FPI radiator on the bottom, add a rear radiator as you're doing, modify the bottom radiator to gain from breathing space. (y)
Pretty drastic but really the only way to get the temps you're probably wanting from the setup. :D
Click to expand...

Yes, the fans are running at 100%, and the radiator sucks. I also have a HWL GTS 240 at home, so I might try to get that to fit.
You'd previously given me advice on pcpartpicker regarding the bottom of the case. I think I will need to do that if I put fans on the outside.

What fan hubs (if any) are people using? All the 15mm fans are 3 pin, and my motherboard doesn't seem to support controlling fan speeds by voltage, so I had to get a pwm->3pin hub.
 
doctorbigtime said:
Hello

I figured I'd share a couple of photos of my Ryzen workstation build.
This thread was very inspirational.

I'm fortunate that my job allows me to bring my own hardware, so the point of this machine was to have an office workstation that doesn't suck, and that is reasonably small so that I could carry to and from the office on the subway.

With lights off:
View attachment 32838
With lights on:
View attachment 32837

Almost everything in the water cooling loop is bitspower, except for the radiator, which is a disappointing EK SE 240.

The rig is still kinda loud if I want to keep my temps in check, but I have a few plans to address this thanks to other people's experience on this thread. I have already purchased a 92mm radiator to attach to the back, and I also think I'll add some height to the case feet so i could fit 15mm fans on the outside and do push/pull. It might be a little ugly, but that strikes me as a fair tradeoff for the noise reduction.

Here's the parts list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bWy6WX
Click to expand...
Looks great!
I recommend using the HWL rad for fit and performance. I also recommend the NF-A12x15 PWM fans. They are really good. However, the PWM ones are out of stock everywhere at the moment.

These are super slim, but very loud:
Scythe Slip Stream 120 mm Slim Case Fan - PWM 2 TOTAL FANS

These are expensive, but are very good too:
Nhowe XtraFlo Slim 12015 120MM PWM Temperature Control Ultra-Thin F‏an
 
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doctorbigtime said:
Idle under KDE plasma 5, i get CPU: 30 degrees, and GPU 39 degrees.
My "load" test was running the Linux version of XCOM2 while compiling LLVM on 12 cores. After 15 minutes or so, the GPU hits about 60 degrees, and the CPU about 65. This is with the fans at 100% and no overclock. I'm fine with this, but would rather not run the fans so fast. I might also like to OC my chip eventually, so it'd be nice to have some breathing room.
Click to expand...

Interesting on the Linux load, During BF1 fans at 50-60% I'm at 60-65C both C/GPU on air with heavy overclocks, though my setup is quite..hacked in there. It is quiet though.
 
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doctorbigtime said:
Yes, the fans are running at 100%, and the radiator sucks. I also have a HWL GTS 240 at home, so I might try to get that to fit.
You'd previously given me advice on pcpartpicker regarding the bottom of the case. I think I will need to do that if I put fans on the outside.

What fan hubs (if any) are people using? All the 15mm fans are 3 pin, and my motherboard doesn't seem to support controlling fan speeds by voltage, so I had to get a pwm->3pin hub.
Click to expand...

You'll see a big difference with the HWL radiator. It should fit quite well in there...

The NF-A12x15 PWM are available directly from Noctua on ebay. Their prices are quite good and the service was amazing...
This review as well and Nanook convinced me to give them a try...
 
By the way I believe the new PWM Scythe 12mm ones are airflow, and not static pressure fans?
 
Eh, the new Noctuas are "airflow" fans too, but beat out every other slim for actual radiator performance. Static pressure is a good measure, but it isn't everything.
 
Well, every bottom mounted rad N1 I've seen has run way too hot at stock. Side is the ticket.
 
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So, Chapeau's build inspired me to rebuild my Ncase M1. I was going to go with his shroud mod as well, but ended up doing something different. And a bit unique. Teaser:

SdQ4a4Hh.jpg

Hmmm... wonder if there's sufficient clearance here.... ;)
 
Pillars said:
Well, every bottom mounted N1 I've seen has run way too hot at stock. Side is the ticket.
Click to expand...

Almost like it was designed for the radiator to go on the side bracket...!

But you know how some people are, gotta have that window...
 
I just went to buy a replacement side bracket with filter and 3.5 drive cage, and they're both out of stock. Any idea when they'll be available again?
 
Just got the case, liking it so far though haven't bought an sfx power supply yet so it looks pretty ghetto with an external power supply. Can anyone shed some light on what these holes would be used for?
 

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Just curious are they going to be updating the case, I know they aren't planning a window version but maybe with usb type C or anything like that?
 
Whelp, just like every time I've built up my M1, I ended up scrapping some of my ideas and improvising. Here's the new WC setup. Sorry for potatos.

Testing clearances with the itty bitty SPC pump and a side radiator installed:
jbLteNjl.jpg


Yep, a bit tight. I ended up getting a couple more mm than this.

Original plan was to run tubing to the side radiator both underneath and over the rad fans:
cbqGRcRl.jpg

LZAIHgTl.jpg


So... it worked. But the SPC pump, while powerful enough to move the water through the system once it was filled, just didn't have the head to prime the system with how my loop was setup. So, rerouted 3 tubes and ended up with this:
SIEjemKl.jpg


Res with direct link to pump. Worked like a charm. And I still managed to keep as much airflow space as possible:
ZM9x1r1l.jpg


So, there you have it. Monoblock, a pair of 240 rads, and SPC pump all inside an M1!
YMGm4PIl.jpg


I have some taller feet than this currently on the way to allow for bottom airflow. It's currently sitting on some random items to raise it up. Eventually I'd like to do Chapeau's shroud mod for the fans, but this'll do for now since I'm moving soon, and need to dedicate time now to packing.
 
keshley said:
Whelp, just like every time I've built up my M1, I ended up scrapping some of my ideas and improvising. Here's the new WC setup. Sorry for potatos.

Testing clearances with the itty bitty SPC pump and a side radiator installed:
jbLteNjl.jpg


Yep, a bit tight. I ended up getting a couple more mm than this.

Original plan was to run tubing to the side radiator both underneath and over the rad fans:
cbqGRcRl.jpg

LZAIHgTl.jpg


So... it worked. But the SPC pump, while powerful enough to move the water through the system once it was filled, just didn't have the head to prime the system with how my loop was setup. So, rerouted 3 tubes and ended up with this:
SIEjemKl.jpg


Res with direct link to pump. Worked like a charm. And I still managed to keep as much airflow space as possible:
ZM9x1r1l.jpg


So, there you have it. Monoblock, a pair of 240 rads, and SPC pump all inside an M1!
YMGm4PIl.jpg


I have some taller feet than this currently on the way to allow for bottom airflow. It's currently sitting on some random items to raise it up. Eventually I'd like to do Chapeau's shroud mod for the fans, but this'll do for now since I'm moving soon, and need to dedicate time now to packing.
Click to expand...

Nicely done, what are your thoughts on that Strix Mono block?
 
p3z said:
Don't see any issues with that. You'll benefit the most with a fan in the right side of the side panel fan bracket and I'd recommend a single one under the GPU. It doesn't even have to spin fast to be effective.
.
Click to expand...
Thnx for your tips I'll defiantly place a thin noctua fan under the gpu. I ended up with not updrading the motherboard and 960pro so the i7 7700k is running on my asus impact viii(z107) and trying to Oc the 7700k above 4.7ghz. Im currently stable at 4.6ghz@1,20v vcore running 72 Celsius while stress testing with prime95.
 
keshley said:
Whelp, just like every time I've built up my M1, I ended up scrapping some of my ideas and improvising. Here's the new WC setup. Sorry for potatos.

Testing clearances with the itty bitty SPC pump and a side radiator installed:
jbLteNjl.jpg


Yep, a bit tight. I ended up getting a couple more mm than this.

Original plan was to run tubing to the side radiator both underneath and over the rad fans:
cbqGRcRl.jpg

LZAIHgTl.jpg


So... it worked. But the SPC pump, while powerful enough to move the water through the system once it was filled, just didn't have the head to prime the system with how my loop was setup. So, rerouted 3 tubes and ended up with this:
SIEjemKl.jpg


Res with direct link to pump. Worked like a charm. And I still managed to keep as much airflow space as possible:
ZM9x1r1l.jpg


So, there you have it. Monoblock, a pair of 240 rads, and SPC pump all inside an M1!
YMGm4PIl.jpg


I have some taller feet than this currently on the way to allow for bottom airflow. It's currently sitting on some random items to raise it up. Eventually I'd like to do Chapeau's shroud mod for the fans, but this'll do for now since I'm moving soon, and need to dedicate time now to packing.
Click to expand...

Awesome!.. Nice work getting everything in. I REALLY like that SPC-60 pump - it's so much quieter and vibration free compared to the DDC whilst still having far more pump than the really mini pumps.
It's nice to see a new layout in particular for the double rad setup. Nice job...(y)
 
rfarmer said:
Nicely done, what are your thoughts on that Strix Mono block?
Click to expand...

Getting bubbles out of it is annoying compared to just a CPU block. For anybody looking to use it, beware - the third fan header is "blocked" with the monoblock installed. EKWB did leave enough room for something to be plugged in though, so just plug into that fan header before installing the monoblock.

The primary reason I did it is to 'flatten' out the space a bit, hopefully help with airflow from the radiator fan over it.

Boil said:
Temps...?!?
Click to expand...

Still dialing in fans. The Windows version of Fan Expert doesn't let me change the CPU fan off of T_sensor, so I need to hop into the BIOS to see if it let's me do it there. Right now, water temp is at 27C, which is only matched by my CaseLabs build. My Phanteks build water temp idles at 29C.

At load, max water temp is 45C, but again, that's with just one fan profile operating correctly, and the weaker FW121s at that. I have a pair of the new A12x15 fans coming which has tested waaay better with 16 FPI rads as well. I expect to get that down closer to 40C once I have both fans operating the way I want.

For reference, my CaseLabs sits at 35C at load, and my Phanteks at 37-38C at load. And the CaseLabs is still 'silent' at load.

Chapeau said:
Awesome!.. Nice work getting everything in. I REALLY like that SPC-60 pump - it's so much quieter and vibration free compared to the DDC whilst still having far more pump than the really mini pumps.
It's nice to see a new layout in particular for the double rad setup. Nice job...(y)
Click to expand...

Thanks! I really didn't want to go the Apogee right, and I've gone the Predator route in the past, and wasn't impressed... not to mention it's a hassle to get it to fit. This already feels way better than the Predator setup. I also think the Predator is too thick for the M1, there's just not enough room in the case for proper airflow of the thicker rad, and the PE is only better than the 240GTS at higher airflows anyways.

I wish HWLabs made a slim version of their 9 FPI radiator (I have this rad, and it is amazing!). But I'm pretty happy with a pair of 16 FPI rads so far.
 
keshley said:
Getting bubbles out of it is annoying compared to just a CPU block. For anybody looking to use it, beware - the third fan header is "blocked" with the monoblock installed. EKWB did leave enough room for something to be plugged in though, so just plug into that fan header before installing the monoblock.

The primary reason I did it is to 'flatten' out the space a bit, hopefully help with airflow from the radiator fan over it.



Still dialing in fans. The Windows version of Fan Expert doesn't let me change the CPU fan off of T_sensor, so I need to hop into the BIOS to see if it let's me do it there. Right now, water temp is at 27C, which is only matched by my CaseLabs build. My Phanteks build water temp idles at 29C.

At load, max water temp is 45C, but again, that's with just one fan profile operating correctly, and the weaker FW121s at that. I have a pair of the new A12x15 fans coming which has tested waaay better with 16 FPI rads as well. I expect to get that down closer to 40C once I have both fans operating the way I want.

For reference, my CaseLabs sits at 35C at load, and my Phanteks at 37-38C at load. And the CaseLabs is still 'silent' at load.



Thanks! I really didn't want to go the Apogee right, and I've gone the Predator route in the past, and wasn't impressed... not to mention it's a hassle to get it to fit. This already feels way better than the Predator setup. I also think the Predator is too thick for the M1, there's just not enough room in the case for proper airflow of the thicker rad, and the PE is only better than the 240GTS at higher airflows anyways.

I wish HWLabs made a slim version of their 9 FPI radiator (I have this rad, and it is amazing!). But I'm pretty happy with a pair of 16 FPI rads so far.
Click to expand...

Nicely done, those are probably the best temps I have seen yet in the M1. Keep us updated when you get it dialed in.
 
rfarmer said:
Nicely done, those are probably the best temps I have seen yet in the M1. Keep us updated when you get it dialed in.
Click to expand...

Welp, no t_sensor for CPU in BIOS either. I'm already down to around 40C water temp under load though without it. This is a gaming load only, BTW. My R7 build will continue to be my go to for heavy lifting.

So... if anybody else has a z270i Strix and has a fan plugged into the AIO_Pump header, can you tell me if it allows you to change the temp source? If so, I'll swap what's plugged into what, and that'll fix that :) With the pump plugged in, for some reason it's all greyed out for me...
 
keshley said:
Welp, no t_sensor for CPU in BIOS either. I'm already down to around 40C water temp under load though without it. This is a gaming load only, BTW. My R7 build will continue to be my go to for heavy lifting.

So... if anybody else has a z270i Strix and has a fan plugged into the AIO_Pump header, can you tell me if it allows you to change the temp source? If so, I'll swap what's plugged into what, and that'll fix that :) With the pump plugged in, for some reason it's all greyed out for me...
Click to expand...

Oh, I should mention, [email protected], auto voltage, and 1080 Ti overclocked to 2GHz, but undervolted around 35mv.
 
keshley said:
So... if anybody else has a z270i Strix and has a fan plugged into the AIO_Pump header, can you tell me if it allows you to change the temp source? If so, I'll swap what's plugged into what, and that'll fix that :) With the pump plugged in, for some reason it's all greyed out for me...
Click to expand...

Trying to find a way to use the thermal sensor for a Z270I is not easy.

As far as I can tell it's not in the BIOS anywhere, and you can only control the fan header labeled "chassis" (or something) with it - this is easier to see in Fan Xpert 3 in Windows.
 
ghostwich said:
Trying to find a way to use the thermal sensor for a Z270I is not easy.

As far as I can tell it's not in the BIOS anywhere, and you can only control the fan header labeled "chassis" (or something) with it - this is easier to see in Fan Xpert 3 in Windows.
Click to expand...

That's what I was afraid of. I'm already controlling the chassis header that way. Thanks for checking!
 
ghostwich said:
Trying to find a way to use the thermal sensor for a Z270I is not easy.

As far as I can tell it's not in the BIOS anywhere, and you can only control the fan header labeled "chassis" (or something) with it - this is easier to see in Fan Xpert 3 in Windows.
Click to expand...
This is how I do it
 
Finally pulled the trigger today on an M1. Pretty stoked about it. Will be moving from a 250D and swapping over a Gigabyte Gaming 5, 7600k, and 1070 FE. Trying to figure out what cooler to go for and possibly custom cables. Need to keep 1 3.5" drive and I don't think my h100i is going to work well in the M1. So new cooler it is! Considering the Be Quiet! Silent Loop and looking at Ensourced for some custom cables.
 
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Even though it's not always in use, I don't regret my M1 purchase, you'll love it. Even if it can be a PITA to get everything installed sometimes... I'd have war wounds from every install if the M1 wasn't so nicely finished. A lot more satisfaction from building one of these than any other case I've owned.
 
Just finished a 4 hour gaming session. Water temps peaked at 42C, so pretty close to where I'd like to see it. I think my A12x15 fans show up tomorrow, so hopefully I can knock out the last couple degrees and call it good!
 
Pillars said:
Good water temps, what were your CPU/GPU core temps?
Click to expand...

Highest GPU I've seen is 52. Typically sits in high 40s.

CPU is hard to say - I have one of those 7700k CPUs that has the random temp spikes, despite being delidded. Kaby Lake is just awful for temps because of that. But even then, highest I've seen it peak is in the 70s for a single core. During gaming, seems to hover in the 40s and 50s.
 
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eightfour7two said:
I 3D printed some wedge style feet for the M1. The .stl file can be downloaded here. Used 12mm M3 flanged bolts and furniture skid protectors, Case now sits an extra 5mm higher compared to the stock feet: better for airflow, but not enough to ruin the appearance IMO
Click to expand...

I really liked these, but they were a bit short for me. My Uncle took them, made them taller, then printed a set out in his resin printer. Hope you don't mind!

up5uZG7l.jpg


Currently just primed - going to paint them matte black. FWIW, you can't see the fans at normal sitting height.

Now I just have to clean my desk and rearrange all the cabling... sigh!
 
I'm still heartbroken that the sandblasted panels fell through. Is there a way to send ours somewhere to have it done?
 
keshley said:
Highest GPU I've seen is 52. Typically sits in high 40s.

CPU is hard to say - I have one of those 7700k CPUs that has the random temp spikes, despite being delidded. Kaby Lake is just awful for temps because of that. But even then, highest I've seen it peak is in the 70s for a single core. During gaming, seems to hover in the 40s and 50s.
Click to expand...

Best temps I've seen for water. I've delidded my 7700K, still it heats and cools instantly with minimal heat output on the HSF. I sit 60-65C GPU/CPU constant on air at 4.6 in game however I can't break 65C+ in stress which is nice. Good to finally see a water setup blow right by though. A+ job.
 
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