Google Employee behind Anti-Diversity Memo Is “Exploring All Possible Legal Remedies”

Megalith

Megalith

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Google has fired James Damore, the software engineer responsible for “Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber,” an internal memo that questioned the company’s diversity efforts and argued that the low number of women in technical positions was a result of biological differences instead of discrimination. Mr. Damore was dismissed for “perpetuating gender stereotypes,” but he believes that he was merely bringing illegal behavior to light and will be pursuing legal action.

Google Chief Executive Sundar Pichai told employees in a note on Monday that portions of the anti-diversity memo "violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace," according to a copy of the note seen by Reuters.It was not immediately clear what legal authority Damore could try to invoke. Non-union or "at will" employees, such as most tech workers, can be fired in the United States for a wide array of reasons that have nothing to do with performance.
 
I don't think a lawsuit would go anywhere, nor do I think it should.

He wrote a public memo and the other members of the company didn't like it, so he was terminated. In my libertarian utopia, it would be OK if gender at an organization wasn't 50/50 and it is OK if a company fires someone who isn't going to try to achieve their goal of gender 50/50.
 
His thoughts were pretty extreme to say by today's standards. Him being fired doesn't surprise me one bit. I seriously doubt he has a legal leg to stand on.

It's one thing to have your own opinions, it's another to blast it out in a company wide memo.
 
Megalith said:
Google has fired James Damore, the software engineer responsible for “Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber,” an internal memo that questioned the company’s diversity efforts and argued that the low number of women in technical positions was a result of biological differences instead of discrimination. Mr. Damore was dismissed for “perpetuating gender stereotypes,” but he believes that he was merely bringing illegal behavior to light and will be pursuing legal action.

Google Chief Executive Sundar Pichai told employees in a note on Monday that portions of the anti-diversity memo "violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace," according to a copy of the note seen by Reuters.It was not immediately clear what legal authority Damore could try to invoke. Non-union or "at will" employees, such as most tech workers, can be fired in the United States for a wide array of reasons that have nothing to do with performance.
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I find it disgusting that Google claimed to support a free environment where one can express their opinion and then the moment someone expresses an opinion that doesn't match up with the party line they fire them. It's totally within their rights to do so but it just doesn't sit well with me to proclaim inclusion and then smack down someone who doesn't fit your world view.
 
BloodyIron said:
His thoughts were pretty extreme to say by today's standards. Him being fired doesn't surprise me one bit. I seriously doubt he has a legal leg to stand on.

It's one thing to have your own opinions, it's another to blast it out in a company wide memo.
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So a person's opinion is cause for termination? Questioning beliefs? Only management can disagree with policies?
Yeah i get it, that's how the world works. It doesn't make it right.
I don't think opinions should be grounds for termination. It should be based on work and work quality. It's already illegal to fire or hire someone based on political affiliation which is mostly opinion yet actual opinions are valid for termination?
 
kju1 said:
I find it disgusting that Google claimed to support a free environment where one can express their opinion and then the moment someone expresses an opinion that doesn't match up with the party line they fire them. It's totally within their rights to do so but it just doesn't sit well with me to proclaim inclusion and then smack down someone who doesn't fit your world view.
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Actually they're not within their rights. You need a good reason to fire someone, and this doesn't seem like a legitimate reason. In fact "he has different political views from what the company approved" is very far from a valid reason.
 
I saw he was fired.

He was a bit of a jack-ass. He got what he deserved.

SirDummy said:
“I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership,” he wrote, adding that those differences include assertions that women tended to be more social and artistic thus could not take high-pressure jobs, along with possessing traits such as neuroticism, higher anxiety and a lower tolerance to stress.
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How can you know if women are suited to this work environment unless he sees a consistent pattern of entering tech after a college education, then leaving?

We did a survey at my workplace of why women didn't take higher positions within our mega-corp. There was a large breadth of answers on this topic. But the truth being told was there was no one with the training necessary to take those higher positions. And no one thought it worth the additional college and training (which we would have paid for) to get a job with a lot more responsibility and little pay increase. We need to get access to women at a younger age and teach them these skills are valuable and desirable.
 
M76 said:
Actually they're not within their rights. You need a good reason to fire someone, and this doesn't seem like a legitimate reason. In fact "he has different political views from what the company approved" is very far from a valid reason.
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Can you say "Hostile work environment"

If you were a woman there, would you want to work with him? If you are a woman candidate with him there, would you apply?

I learned long ago by watching others: Poison to a company is badmouthing your fellow employees.
 
While I agree that the SJWs have got to tone it down, what he did was cut himself of the same cloth.
The "push" of "diversity and shoving that down out throats 24/7 is getting old but he didn't come across as a rational mind by risking his career, then expecting to keep that career after setting it on fire.
 
The 0bama justice department is no more and progressives can no longer enforce their sexist, racist, totalitarian agenda. SJW may try to continue their attacks on white/asian men but they cannot count on the Fed's to back them up. It's a new day and a new sheriff...

While a person can quit a job for any reason, and a company can fire a person without stating a reason, Google fired Damore for "perpetuating gender stereotypes". It is important to prevent establishing the precedent of opposing radical feminism as grounds for termination.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
Can you say "Hostile work environment"

If you were a woman there, would you want to work with him? If you are a woman candidate with him there, would you apply?

I learned long ago by watching others: Poison to a company is badmouthing your fellow employees.
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Yes I can say it. And I call a hostile work environment where you're branded and fired for stating facts.
 
M76 said:
Actually they're not within their rights. You need a good reason to fire someone, and this doesn't seem like a legitimate reason. In fact "he has different political views from what the company approved" is very far from a valid reason.
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Just means he could probably collect unemployment...
 
lolfail9001 said:
Well, Google is poisoned beyond redemption then, get out the grave diggers.
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Agreed, I finally caught up on the anti-diversity memo and the firestorm it caused. I do want to reinforce your statement with the answer from an anonymous Google worker to the question below:

Allum Bokhari: What’s it like to work in such an environment? Do you think it damages employee output?

Hal: A lot of social justice activists essentially spend all day fighting the culture war, and get nothing done. The company has made it a point to hire more people like this. The diversity gospel has been woven into nearly everything the company does, to the point where senior leaders focus on diversity first and technology second. The companywide “Google Insider” emails used to talk about cool new tech, but now they’re entirely about social justice initiatives. Likewise, the weekly all-hands “TGIF” meetings used to focus on tech, but now they’re split about 50/50 between tech and identity politics signaling.

For conservative employees, this is obviously demoralizing, but it is also dangerous. Several have been driven out of the company or fired outright for sharing a dissenting view. Others have had their promotions denied or suffered other forms of deniable retaliation. Most of us just keep our heads down because we can’t afford to lose our jobs​


This is just wow. The full interview can be found at this link.
 
The Cobra said:
This is what "At-Will" employment is ladies and gents...
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Someone getting fired for trying to spread false information about the Company? Yes, that is what it means.

M76 said:
Actually they're not within their rights. You need a good reason to fire someone, and this doesn't seem like a legitimate reason. In fact "he has different political views from what the company approved" is very far from a valid reason.
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Hypergreatthing said:
So a person's opinion is cause for termination? Questioning beliefs? Only management can disagree with policies?
Yeah i get it, that's how the world works. It doesn't make it right.
I don't think opinions should be grounds for termination. It should be based on work and work quality. It's already illegal to fire or hire someone based on political affiliation which is mostly opinion yet actual opinions are valid for termination?
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kju1 said:
I find it disgusting that Google claimed to support a free environment where one can express their opinion and then the moment someone expresses an opinion that doesn't match up with the party line they fire them. It's totally within their rights to do so but it just doesn't sit well with me to proclaim inclusion and then smack down someone who doesn't fit your world view.
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You do need a good reason to fire someone and they had a good reason. The real question and what the lawsuit will probably involve is whether their good reason conflicted with their stated company values. Because really the guy is introducing a paradox in their company values, which is also the general paradox in many ideologies. How can you protect someone's right to have their own opinions and voice them in a public setting without threat of punishment? He voiced his opinion in what was supposed to be an open and free environment, and then got fired for it. Therefore there could be grounds for a lawsuit.
 
Whether you agree with what he said or not is beside the point.

What he did was really stupid knowing the company and environment he works in.

He did the equivalent of turning up to a Black Panthers Meeting dressed as a member of the KKK.

Pure dumb.

Had he just discussed them with a few colleagues or his line manager he would just probably have been told "Well that's your opinion but I'd keep it to myself if I were you!"
 
NoOther said:
Someone getting fired for trying to spread false information about the Company? Yes, that is what it means.

You do need a good reason to fire someone and they had a good reason. The real question and what the lawsuit will probably involve is whether their good reason conflicted with their stated company values. Because really the guy is introducing a paradox in their company values, which is also the general paradox in many ideologies. How can you protect someone's right to have their own opinions and voice them in a public setting without threat of punishment? He voiced his opinion in what was supposed to be an open and free environment, and then got fired for it. Therefore there could be grounds for a lawsuit.
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I would think that would only matter if that was in his employment contract
 
capt_cope said:
Meh. I think you deserve to be fired if you're stupid enough to make your opinions public (unless it's your opinion on your ability to meet the next deadline) at work.
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This is how I feel about it. Unless an opinion is towards inclusion and overall helpfulness, best to keep it to yourself. Pointing out biological differences to explain away productive women is asking for trouble. He should have just gone all the way and also explained why black people can't swim and why Jews are good with money.
 
Google has policies in place. They lay out what's expected of workers and the work environment. If you write an email and blast it to everyone saying you don't agree with those policies, you should be fired. End of story. It doesn't even get to the point of asking whether he had a point or not.
 
lolfail9001 said:
Well, him getting fired actually confirms that the memo is largely correct, you know.
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Depends on whose definition of correct. Publicly that is not Google's stance, so in that case he is spreading false information. If he could actually prove that Google operates differently and operates according to what he posted in the memo, then he could sue them for libel.

Semantics said:
I would think that would only matter if that was in his employment contract
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Nope, that would not be correct. Your contract is only one part of the equation. If the company makes public statements, memorandums, etc. they can be considered policy. If the company than breaks their own policy, they can be held liable for that. Also part of your 'contract' are living documents, like employee handbooks, company policies, and employment regulations that can change over time.
 
EODetroit said:
Google has policies in place. They lay out what's expected of workers and the work environment. If you write an email and blast it to everyone saying you don't agree with those policies, you should be fired. End of story. It doesn't even get to the point of asking whether he had a point or not.
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Just because you don't agree with policies doesn't mean you don't follow them. How are you supposed to expect a culture change for the better if you don't make your opinions known? I don't agree with some policies where I work and I've made my opinion about it known, but I haven't been fired for it. There are times when other employees agreed with me and we actually enacted change.
 
This mess and the "Rebels of Google" info might go a long way to explaining why Google is terminating a lot of its technology initiatives. If some of your best and brightest are increasing tasked to internal diversity projects, it is hard to roll out new stuff. Might explain the rather sudden halting of the Google Fiber deployment and resulting multiple Fiber CEO changes.

The resulting legal show might increase popcorn sales.
 
Armenius said:
Just because you don't agree with policies doesn't mean you don't follow them. How are you supposed to expect a culture change for the better if you don't make your opinions known? I don't agree with some policies where I work and I've made my opinion about it known, but I haven't been fired for it. There are times when other employees agreed with me and we actually enacted change.
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When you start to shut down other people's opinions, you start to become a cult. Google's fall will be sad to watch.
 
7-ish years ago, when I was interviewing for jobs; I tested this by going well and beyond logic to write the flat out cheesiest, feminism-from-a-guy, ultra-earth / pet centric, pop-culturish, trendy.. whatever interview request. I cant really describe how ridiculous it was, wrap up all the SJW topics and vomit them out on paper and that was my application letter. It was comical. I will try to locate it from my gmail. I wanted to see if I could get a call without really even mentioning my tech background, by only highlighting my sense of non-identity, or global identity...if that makes sense. I agreed with everything and disagreed with nothing. No joke they called me, interviewed me, and praised my stand out application letter. It blew my mind. I was standing up stating that I am essentially the doppleganger of nihilism or something. I will try to find it and edit this post so you can grasp this.
You couldnt pay me 250k a year to work for that company. The new meta culture is non culture, extirpate all your beliefs you formed on your own, and adopt round robin everything you come in contact with.
 
M76 said:
Actually they're not within their rights. You need a good reason to fire someone, and this doesn't seem like a legitimate reason. In fact "he has different political views from what the company approved" is very far from a valid reason.
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Where I'm at, fully right to work, you don't. You don't need anything except to say insubordination which is such a vague and broad term it could cover almost any reason for firing. And we have, in most employment agreements, that termination can happen for no reason at all. Good luck getting anything out of that. Even the lawyers here would tell you to pound sand.
 
M76 said:
Yes I can say it. And I call a hostile work environment where you're branded and fired for stating facts.
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It may be a fact that google is more focues on social diversity than cool new tech. But it isn't a fact that "women are not biologically suited for such work." As he so claimed. That's an unfounded discriminatory remark that isn't proven in any way shape or form.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
It may be a fact that google is more focues on social diversity than cool new tech. But it isn't a fact that "women are not biologically suited for such work." As he so claimed. That's an unfounded discriminatory remark that isn't proven in any way shape or form.
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The problem is, he actually noticed the statistics associated with Google's internal peer reviews submitted by their employees. Also, Google has been pushing hard to hire more women for at least 5-10 years. There is nothing wrong with hiring more women. Google hasn't be as successful at this and is still pushing hard for it. This is what led the former employee to voice what he believe is the real problem. All of the sudden, many employees including women who shares very well with the company's current ideology get completely offended and can't tolerate what he just said. It is ironic because they regularly preach diversity and tolerance.
 
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