Microsoft Will Make Zero Profit from the Xbox One X at $499

I know they are I'm 98% a PC gamer and willing to spend more on my PC. I have Adobe CS and lots of other applicatios installed but 95% of the time its being used for games. The [H} crowd isn't the target demographic for this or any console really.

I see it for a couple of different groups the enthusiast console gamer who has a nice TV and maybe surround sound and just wants to sit on his couch with his xbox buddies and play games. A couple of old friends of mine are like that; computer programmer/DBA and just doesn't want to mess with a PC since they are on one all day

Another group is the home theater guy who likes some gaming, then its an UBRD player with HDR, media hub and the occasional game for him or the kids.

For either of those groups a $500 expenditure is not a big deal.

One draw for me is that if I feel like playing Ori/Forza or something else I don't have to go in the "kids" room I can just stream it to my PC. The addition of play anywhere games is nice as well.

All of those scenarios could be served by a $249 Xbox One S - half the price. Play the same games, and same niche UHD blurays. And have $249 left over to buy a PS4.

Nobody including Microsoft has been able to make a compelling case why the X is worth paying double, other than paper specs.
 
All of those scenarios could be served by a $249 Xbox One S - half the price. Play the same games, and same niche UHD blurays. And have $249 left over to buy a PS4.

Nobody including Microsoft has been able to make a compelling case why the X is worth paying double, other than paper specs.

MS could include a gold brick and you'd still whine about it.
 
All of those scenarios could be served by a $249 Xbox One S - half the price. Play the same games, and same niche UHD blurays. And have $249 left over to buy a PS4.

Nobody including Microsoft has been able to make a compelling case to me why the X is worth paying double, other than paper specs.
FTFY.
 
No one remembers the 3DO? That was $700 in 1993 money that is the true definition of too expensive. If you have a large 4k display and like Xbox then the XB1X is reasonable.

I don't know why people are quibbling over $500 but yet will liquid cool dual 1080Ti's or Titan P's

I paid $500 for my 3DO...and even THAT was painful. Tell me, how many 3DOs sold? Total? And how were sales of the PS3 at $500? How were the sales of the Xbox One at $500? Mark my words, this will TANK at a $500 price point! Casuals will buy the PS4 or Xbox One S...and "hardcore" gamers will buy a new PC or graphics card. The remaining guys in the middle will buy EITHER a PS4 Pro or the Xbox One X...and those people are such a small percentage of the overall market that it will make ZERO difference to the end result. Xbox is doomed.
 
People are willing to spend more on PC's than a console because a PC can do more than a console. With a console you're just stuck doing what a console does best which is just play games, so it's harder to justify the investment. Someone with a PC might get into video editing, photoshop, crypto mining, folding, 3d design, VR, etc etc etc.
Or even gasp, document authoring and spreadsheets!
 
I paid $500 for my 3DO...and even THAT was painful. Tell me, how many 3DOs sold? Total? And how were sales of the PS3 at $500? How were the sales of the Xbox One at $500? Mark my words, this will TANK at a $500 price point! Casuals will buy the PS4 or Xbox One S...and "hardcore" gamers will buy a new PC or graphics card. The remaining guys in the middle will buy EITHER a PS4 Pro or the Xbox One X...and those people are such a small percentage of the overall market that it will make ZERO difference to the end result. Xbox is doomed.

Now be honest you thought the same when the Xbox Elite controller came out for $150 too didn't you? I know I did but I was wrong..

I don't understand whey people buy Macs unless it's exclusively for Final Cut Pro but people do. People are also going to buy an Area 51 Threadripper top model for $$$$$$.

Just because you or I feel it may or may not be too expensive doesn't mean it will fail. We should see regardless in the next few months. Some people just want the best of any given product.
 
Now be honest you thought the same when the Xbox Elite controller came out for $150 too didn't you? I know I did but I was wrong..

I don't understand whey people buy Macs unless it's exclusively for Final Cut Pro but people do. People are also going to buy an Area 51 Threadripper top model for $$$$$$.

Just because you or I feel it may or may not be too expensive doesn't mean it will fail. We should see regardless in the next few months. Some people just want the best of any given product.

Your analogies don't really work. No one knows how many Elite controllers sell, but those controllers also have appeal to more than just console players. Macs offer something PC don't, a controlled spec with a super clean, very well optimized OS on top of absolutely gorgeous design. On top of that they have some of the best productivity software out there.

The XBX has none of that nor does it have the same hardcore appeal the Elite controller has. There really isn't much of a built in playerbase for the system either. Sony has sold over 60 million PS4s. The last official word from MS was back in 2015 when MS reported something like 10 million units sold. The last estimates put them behind Sony by over half. So we're looking at 25-30 million systems sold, if that. How many of those have 4K sets? How many of those play enough on their XB1 to even consider upgrading? Of those with 4K sets how many just bought a S and are fine with its ability to display 4K media? The PS4 Pro, by all estimates, isn't even selling a huge amount of units and yet people expect something $100 more with far less of a dedicated user base behind it to sell amazingly well?
 
Have you ever gamed on a 144 Hz monitor Vs a 60 Hz monitor? Try it out and you will change your mind. There is a VERY noticeable Difference, I have a 27" 144Hz monitor and a 24" 60 Hz and the difference is clear as night and day. Someone was trying to BS people into this line of thinking. 144Hz is far smoother even in seeing the mouse cursor movement across the screen.

I agree with this and you dont need a game to notice the difference. Just move your mouse around at 60hz on the desktop, switch to 144hz and do the same. The difference is very clear to me.
 
$500 is totally reasonable. I feel like these analysts must have forgetten about a thing called "inflation".

at 2% inflation, the original playstation is $462

the PS3 was $499 at launch and sold just fine

xbox 360 premium was $399 and the base was $299. $399 adjusted for inflation is $506.

So considering what you get, $500 seems pretty fucking reasonable.
... yeah but technology price keeps coming down. Original PlayStation may of been $462 dollars (today's money), but a normal desktop computer back then was almost $2,000 ($3200 today's money)

Technology prices are dropping. You can buy an entry level computer that is equivalent to what you got back then, today, for like $4-500 dollars.

Point is, it is not completely fair to just consider inflation and no other factors. People expect to pay less for technology today than they did then.
 
I know they are I'm 98% a PC gamer and willing to spend more on my PC. I have Adobe CS and lots of other applicatios installed but 95% of the time its being used for games. The [H} crowd isn't the target demographic for this or any console really.
Sure, I'm just saying PC's get away with being "overpriced" because a huge % of the demographic can find a good excuse to do so whether they are a gamer or not. People just expect PC's to be expensive. However I feel confident asserting most console gamers expect the opposite, they ALL want the cheapest thing possible. People with fancy surround setups and 4k TV's are an extreme minority, so thats why $500 consoles fail where as $1000 PC's thrive.
 
I agree with this and you dont need a game to notice the difference. Just move your mouse around at 60hz on the desktop, switch to 144hz and do the same. The difference is very clear to me.
When my 144hz had to be sent in for warranty I fell back on my 60hz 26". Holy cow I thought something was wrong with my video settings, I just could not remember 60 hz feeling that jittery as I had gamed at 60hz for the last 2 decades. It took about a week before I got my monitor back and only on the last day did it start to feel somewhat normal at 60hz again.
 
People don't need to buy a complete new system to be able to play like they need to with consoles. Any decent PC bought in the past half a decade has a more powerful CPU than current consoles so all that is required is a new GPU and $500 buys you a whole lot more GPU power than you get with a Xbox One XXX.

Yep, just buy something, slap it in and watch it blow up. Or how about that crappy monitor that is still in use? Or having no 6 pin connectors?
 
I paid $500 for my 3DO...and even THAT was painful. Tell me, how many 3DOs sold? Total? And how were sales of the PS3 at $500? How were the sales of the Xbox One at $500? Mark my words, this will TANK at a $500 price point! Casuals will buy the PS4 or Xbox One S...and "hardcore" gamers will buy a new PC or graphics card. The remaining guys in the middle will buy EITHER a PS4 Pro or the Xbox One X...and those people are such a small percentage of the overall market that it will make ZERO difference to the end result. Xbox is doomed.
About twice as much as the Vive and Rift combined has sold
 
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Now be honest you thought the same when the Xbox Elite controller came out for $150 too didn't you? I know I did but I was wrong..

I don't understand whey people buy Macs unless it's exclusively for Final Cut Pro but people do. People are also going to buy an Area 51 Threadripper top model for $$$$$$.

Just because you or I feel it may or may not be too expensive doesn't mean it will fail. We should see regardless in the next few months. Some people just want the best of any given product.

I didn't say they wouldnt sell ANY, I said they aren't going to sell enough to make any significant difference in the fate of their console ambitions. And they wont. Just because a few (vocal) fanbois on the net think this is the best shit since the Atari 2600 doesnt mean it will sell to the general public in any meaningful way.
 
I didn't say they wouldnt sell ANY, I said they aren't going to sell enough to make any significant difference in the fate of their console ambitions. And they wont. Just because a few (vocal) fanbois on the net think this is the best shit since the Atari 2600 doesnt mean it will sell to the general public in any meaningful way.

No dude, you said it would tank. Just admit it, you could be wrong........ I am waiting......... :D You are the only one throwing around that fanboi tag like it means something to you. If you are so sure, I assume then that you are a stock market analyst rolling in the dough, eh?
 
Hang on. Why is this news?

It's common knowledge that the only company who ever makes money on hardware at launch is Nintendo.

The PSX, PS2, PS3 and PS4 all lost money at launch. So did every other Xbox, and so did the Dreamcast. Licensing has ALWAYS been the console moneymaking machine.
 
I don't know what you've been using.

This is what you said: People don't need to buy a complete new system to be able to play like they need to with consoles. Any decent PC bought in the past half a decade has a more powerful CPU than current consoles so all that is required is a new GPU and $500 buys you a whole lot more GPU power than you get with a Xbox One XXX

It has nothing to do with what I am using. Very few pre built systems, which most of those systems bough in the past half decade are, do not even have a 6 pin PCIe power connector. Many folks will continue using an older monitor as long as it works, just because.
 
... yeah but technology price keeps coming down. Original PlayStation may of been $462 dollars (today's money), but a normal desktop computer back then was almost $2,000 ($3200 today's money)

Technology prices are dropping. You can buy an entry level computer that is equivalent to what you got back then, today, for like $4-500 dollars.

Point is, it is not completely fair to just consider inflation and no other factors. People expect to pay less for technology today than they did then.

Sure, I don't disagree. But at the same time, you are just saying "computer". If we go on something like performance per dollar, you are paying the same to get significantly more, well in excess of inflation. For example, the original Playstation came with a CD player, the new Xbox One X comes with an UHD Blu Ray Player. So price is coming down on the components per your point, but for my point, we are just allocating the same amount of dollars every year in order to buy more.

A further example would be, a computer cost $2000 back in the day. If you spent the same amount $3200 per your calc, you'd have a ridiculous computer comparatively. You're getting a shitload more technology.
 
This is what you said: People don't need to buy a complete new system to be able to play like they need to with consoles. Any decent PC bought in the past half a decade has a more powerful CPU than current consoles so all that is required is a new GPU and $500 buys you a whole lot more GPU power than you get with a Xbox One XXX

It has nothing to do with what I am using. Very few pre built systems, which most of those systems bough in the past half decade are, do not even have a 6 pin PCIe power connector. Many folks will continue using an older monitor as long as it works, just because.
We are talking about gamers here, there are no hardware issues like those. Monitors have barely improved in the past years and one can always game on the TV which is what a "console like" player would do anyway.
 
The out of box experience you get for $500 is unmatched. I believe Microsoft believes when it releases the performance will speak for itself. It's not a PC, it's a great gaming experience for it's price. Plus it plays UHD Blu-rays.
 
This has the fastest available AMD gpu with freesync 2.0 support. Freesync monitor prices should come way down by the time this released.

Lots of people just use laptops for their PC needs now a days. I just shopped for a laptop for my wife. No way is she going to want a huge, heavy gaming laptop. So the best graphics we have in the house are Intel integrated. This is NOT uncommon outside of the [H] realm and the XBOX will come in very useful.
 
This has the fastest available AMD gpu with freesync 2.0 support. Freesync monitor prices should come way down by the time this released.

Lots of people just use laptops for their PC needs now a days. I just shopped for a laptop for my wife. No way is she going to want a huge, heavy gaming laptop. So the best graphics we have in the house are Intel integrated. This is NOT uncommon outside of the [H] realm and the XBOX will come in very useful.

Well, I am very much looking forward to this and will probably buy it day one. However, it will cost me a few dollars more than $500 because I will also need the Kinect 2 adapter. I enjoy having it even though it is not all that well supported anymore. (At least compared to what it should have been.)
 
Just listened to an interview with Phil spencer explaining a lot about the price point and what it meant And it honestly made me respect him. Made a lot of good points, and outright said this isn't for every gamer. This is for the console equivalent of a pc gamer who is willing to spend tons on a titan gpu because they need to have the best of the best, but if that's not for you then the Xbox one s still exists for half the price. It's about an hour long but a very good listen, I put it in during my drive to work today lol.

 
so from a PR standpoint the logical move other than lowering price is cry you aren't making any money on it.

Yeah. its funny how the public just lap that line up. "oh we don't make any money on the console". uh-huh. pull the other one, it plays jingle bells.

They are making money on the hardware. Stop fooling yourself and swallowing marketing propaganda. Why else do they not want to worry you with 'the numbers' (and even if they did hand out figures, creative accounting is all it would be).
 
I have a buddy who is a hardcore Sony fan. Everything Sony in his house. He was laughing at how the "X BONE" was going to sell at $500 and I reminded him that the PS3 was $500/$600 at launch. "No it wasn't, there's never been a console that expensive".

Sigh. Just like politics everyone has a "side".

hahahha...the PS3 Gen 1 with card reader and 4 usb ports cost OVER $600.00 when I got it in it's first couple of days , still have it , let me guess your buddy is YOUNG?
 
Yeah. its funny how the public just lap that line up. "oh we don't make any money on the console". uh-huh. pull the other one, it plays jingle bells.

They are making money on the hardware. Stop fooling yourself and swallowing marketing propaganda. Why else do they not want to worry you with 'the numbers' (and even if they did hand out figures, creative accounting is all it would be).

Losing money on hardware is not uncommon in the game industry. Its been a thing since the PS1. Even Nintendo has taken that approach before. Tech gets cheaper as time goes on so within a year or two companies are making a profit on each unit sold. It has always been a fact that the money for hardware manufacturers doesn't come from direct console sales, but from royalty fees for games. They're able to take a hit on each unit sold because it is easily made up by the customer buying games for that system. This is the same tactic you see inkjet printer manufacturers take, they make nothing or even lose money on each printer sold but make a ton of money off ink sales. In retail, this strategy is called being a loss leader, losing money on one item but using that to draw customers in and have them buy the things you actually make good money off of.
 
People have been calling for the death of consoles for a while, they also called the death of PC's. Not going to happen. I don't know how successful XB1X will be but people will buy it.
Ironically, the Xbox kind of IS a PC though.

From what I understand, you basically have a gaming optimized minimalist fixed W10, which will never change so game developers don't have to worry about updates, and another updated W10 for apps, and otherwise is regular PC APU components/memory/drive/etc.

So the console and HTPC merged.
 
No dude, you said it would tank. Just admit it, you could be wrong........ I am waiting......... :D You are the only one throwing around that fanboi tag like it means something to you. If you are so sure, I assume then that you are a stock market analyst rolling in the dough, eh?

It WILL tank! That said, sales wont be zero. And you can wait all you want, idiot. It's not going to save the platform. Get back to me next January and let me know how your predictions work out for you.
 
It WILL tank! That said, sales wont be zero. And you can wait all you want, idiot. It's not going to save the platform. Get back to me next January and let me know how your predictions work out for you.

As I have said on other forums and other places, I may be an idiot but that does not make me wrong. :D :)
 
This time you are both.

That's nice, now play nice. :D Looking forward to the One X if for no other reason than it will be faster than the One itself. Just have to make sure the Kinect two works with it before I buy one although, I will need the adapter to go with it, like the One S probably. Oh, and do not mess with time travel, the bad guys will come and get you.
 
That's nice, now play nice. :D Looking forward to the One X if for no other reason than it will be faster than the One itself. Just have to make sure the Kinect two works with it before I buy one although, I will need the adapter to go with it, like the One S probably. Oh, and do not mess with time travel, the bad guys will come and get you.

The Kinect works exactly the same with the USB adapter. That was confirmed by Spencer at an E3 interview.
 
I paid $500 for my 3DO...and even THAT was painful. Tell me, how many 3DOs sold? Total? And how were sales of the PS3 at $500? How were the sales of the Xbox One at $500? Mark my words, this will TANK at a $500 price point! Casuals will buy the PS4 or Xbox One S...and "hardcore" gamers will buy a new PC or graphics card. The remaining guys in the middle will buy EITHER a PS4 Pro or the Xbox One X...and those people are such a small percentage of the overall market that it will make ZERO difference to the end result. Xbox is doomed.

And you know what, over time the price will drop. They actually don't expect everyone to buy the X. They are selling it for the people that want more than what the S can do. If you don't want more power then stay with the S. They are going to be making both just like Sony still makes both the PS 4 and Pro.
 
And you know what, over time the price will drop. They actually don't expect everyone to buy the X. They are selling it for the people that want more than what the S can do. If you don't want more power then stay with the S. They are going to be making both just like Sony still makes both the PS 4 and Pro.

Correct, but while the PS4 ecosystem is thriving, Xbox is struggling to justify it's existence...especially with ALL new titles being availble on PC. There just isnt any reason for the XB1X to exist. Casuals will pick up the cheaper unit, and hardcore gamers will go PC...who is this for? The PS4 Pro on the other hand, still has plenty of QUALITY titles that can not be played on any other platform. Want to play Wipeout Omega in the highest resolution with the best graphics? PS4 Pro. ONLY. THAT gave me a a reason to buy one. Sure they will sell a FEW XB1Xs to the die hard Xbox fans, but as the numbers show, there arent enough of those people to justify the continued existence of the Xbox brand. Just watch...
 
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