DAN HSLP-48: A powerful sub 50mm heatsink

aiming for. ~15°C better as the C7.

You've got almost 10 degrees already. And you can't know exactly what the temperature on the C7 would be with the CPU no throttling. And there also are different fan speeds? The result is not relevant. I think that you at least are touching your goal if not have reached it already.
 
SaperPL I tested it on the table without the case. Also I made a short test with different orientation of the heatpipes. Only with motherboard vertical and heatpipe bends facing up to pcie port result in bad temps. But that was clear.
 
SaperPLOnly with motherboard vertical and heatpipe bends facing up to pcie port result in bad temps. But that was clear.

If I understand this correctly:

1) If someone has a board with CPU socket next to the pcie and chipset on the opposite side, then he'll have this bad orientation of the cooler in A4-SFX and Sentry?
2) In every standard, not "inverted" chassis layout where the pci-e expansion slots are on the bottom, people with the CPU socket far from PCI-e and chipset in the middle, which is quite standard now for intel mainstream, the orientation will be bad unless there's room above the motherboard?

EDIT:
GOOD ORIENTATIONS (MOTHERBOARD INSTALLED VERTICALLY):

HSLP-48.jpg HSLP-48_2.jpg HSLP-48_3.jpg

BAD ORIENTATION (MOTHERBOARD INSTALLED VERTICALLY)

HSLP-48_bad.jpg

GOOD MOTHERBOARDS FOR HSLP-48 in A4-SFX/Sentry (will fit cooler in good orientation):

asrock-z270-gaming-itxac-s1151-z270-4ddr4-usb312xm2hdmi-20dp-mitx.jpg


BAD MOTHERBOARDS FOR HSLP-48 in A4-SFX/Sentry (will fit cooler in bad orientation):

product-large,msi-z97i-ac-z97-pci-e-ddr3-186138,pr_2014_7_9_16_7_16_693.jpg
Do I get this correctly?
 
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Today I testes the HSLP-48 Copper with a 7700k. (Before you ask I will not delid it)
I can't believe that Intel will use TIM also on the new 2066 Socket. Soldering a DIE result in so much better temps.
My 5820K with 6 cores and a TDP of 140W stays cooler as an 7700k with 4 core and a TDP of 91W.



7700K Turbo-Off (4,2Ghz) - Bench Table
Prime95 v26.6 8K Test – 15min each

Heatsink------------Fan---------------Position-----Mode----------RPM--------Room Temp--------Core Temp
HSLP-48 Copper.....A12x15..............Top..........Pushing.........1800..............25........................83°C
Cryorig C7..............A12x15..............Top..........Pushing.........2400..............25........................90°C

7700K Turbo-On (4,4Ghz) - Bench Table

Prime95 v26.6 8K Test – 15min each

Heatsink------------Fan---------------Position-----Mode----------RPM--------Room Temp--------Core Temp
HSLP-48 Copper.....A12x15..............Top..........Pushing.........1800..............25........................92°C
Cryorig C7..............A12x15..............Top..........Pushing.........2400..............25........................100+°C (throttle)

If you touch the HSLP-48 under heavy load its is very cool also the heatpipes arn't hot, this is very strange. I am not sure if this is normal.

Tomorrow I will test the AXP-100 on the 7700k. If its perform linea we should see 5°C better temps on it. So if my prototype 2 is
2-3 better as the AXP-100 we reach the temp goal that I am aiming for. ~15°C better as the C7.

Nice to se some more test.

How far away are the next prototypes and have you got any help from the manufacture, what to change to reach your goals ??
 
If you touch the HSLP-48 under heavy load its is very cool also the heatpipes arn't hot, this is very strange. I am not sure if this is normal.
Do you think maybe because of using thermalright tensioning kit as you said before, and maybe there is not enough contact force between the cpu and the cooler block ?
 
If you touch the HSLP-48 under heavy load its is very cool also the heatpipes arn't hot, this is very strange. I am not sure if this is normal.
It's unfortunately normal with those high clocked, high TDP models as the heat just isn't transferred away from the chip into the heatspreader fast enough, thanks to that crappy TIM.

This is especially bad with very small coolers, even though the cooler itself would be capable of handling the heatload. I've seen this in internal testing numerous times, as I've tested quite a few of those CPUs before and after delid and the results speak for themselves. It's also very obvious when testing the LGA2011-x compatible L9x65 with an 5960X @ 140W, which results in similar temperatures than with a stock 7700K @ 100W.

Of course one has also to consider that the heat density (W/mm²) of current processors is quite high, especially with the 14nm Skylake/Kaby Lake parts, where ~2/5 of the already small chip isn't used when the load is on the IA cores alone. This makes it even more important to ensure there is good heat transfer from the chip to the heatspreader.

I've also seen 4770K and 4790K CPUs degrading over time from a temperature point of view, probably from the TIM getting bad, since these CPUs were never overclocked.
I expect to see this with Skylake and Kaby Lake in 2-3 years as well.

The fact that Intel seems to be using thermal paste even on the higher end parts (at least with the LCC based models) doesn't make things any better ...
 
I'm sorry if my comment has been addressed or is asinine, but aren't vapor chambers strictly better at this size than heatpipes? A vapor chamber is essentially one large flat heatpipe that can spread heat very evenly across a low finstack, and that saves more surface area for more fins. And they're not much more expensive than heatpipes. Apparently the HSLP-48 outperforms the T318 (which is a 150W-rated vapor chamber 1U cooler), but is that because heatpipes are better or is it because the design is better and could be improved if a vapor chamber was used? nVidia also uses a vapor chamber for their reference coolers.
 
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I'm sorry if my comment has been addressed or is asinine, but aren't vapor chambers strictly better at this size than heatpipes? A vapor chamber is essentially one large flat heatpipe that can spread heat very evenly across a low finstack, and that saves more surface area for more fins. And they're not much more expensive than heatpipes. Apparently the HSLP-48 outperforms the T318 (which is a 150W-rated vapor chamber 1U cooler), but is that because heatpipes are better or is it because the design is better and could be improved if a vapor chamber was used? nVidia also uses a vapor chamber for their

Vapor chambers are almost certainly more effective at heat transfer, I remember the difference when NVIDIA started using them for their reference coolers. I'm not sure how effective the vapor chamber base wicking is from the condensation side, but from what I've seen quality vapor chambers have no issues with different orientations. Combination of a vapor chamber with the larger surface area/airflow of Dan's prototype should be a noticeable improvement over a basic vapor chamber (Dynatron)

Cooler Master are actively designing chamber+pipe combos for this very reason. HP has an advanced VC design with their Z cooler - http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/zcooler.html . Thermacore also researched this, they have a page up here from some contest showing a 1000W load in a FLIR https://contest.techbriefs.com/2014/entries/medical/4010

I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of these in the 1.5-2U form factor in the future that can dissipate a future 200W+ Xeon load.
 
I'm sorry if my comment has been addressed or is asinine, but aren't vapor chambers strictly better at this size than heatpipes? A vapor chamber is essentially one large flat heatpipe that can spread heat very evenly across a low finstack, and that saves more surface area for more fins. And they're not much more expensive than heatpipes. Apparently the HSLP-48 outperforms the T318 (which is a 150W-rated vapor chamber 1U cooler), but is that because heatpipes are better or is it because the design is better and could be improved if a vapor chamber was used? nVidia also uses a vapor chamber for their
One advantage that the HSLP-48 has, is that it's fin-stack is free on both sides allowing air to blow straight through. This aspect of the design also helps draw in fresh air from the outside of the case, which is obviously an advantage over recirculating air inside the case. Perhaps this design can be combined with using a vapor chamber?

P.S. i'm not promoting a vapor chamber, and I'm actually quite happy with the current design.
P.P.S. the white paper from HP from one of the sides linked by SniperCzar is quite interesting (direct link to pdf)
 
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I can't remember where I read it but I vaguely remember reading that direct contact heatpipes aren't actually better than using a block to conduct the heat to the pipes. Only the heatpipes directly over the die conduct the most heat. The outer pipes conduct almost no heat. Especially for Intel with a small die and TIM under the ihs versus amd with a larger area of solder under the ihs.

I think Buildzoid has covered this in a few videos too, demonstrating that direct touch heat pipes are not as effective overall as ones embedded in a copper block.

For example, here the outer pipes are utterly useless.
HS.JPG

http://cxzoid.blogspot.com/2017/02/asus-rx-480-strix-oc-review.html?m=1

Also I worry with direct contact that you'll be at the mercy of the manufacturer being able to make a smooth contact surface and level, parallel pipes. Whereas with a block it can provide a smooth surface even if the pipes aren't perfectly flat.

You're forgetting the IHS on pretty much all CPUs, which will spread the heat to the outer heatpipes. I'm not sure the reason for the poor performance of the prototypes... but my modified Nexus Low does an awesome job of cooling, and I haven't even delidded it yet to change the TIM. I will say that I had to modify the mounting brackets, and my heatsink is mounted with a lot of force to the IHS.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=OHR5Rkcwel9mSGYxUV9PYU95VE92T2htTDJXSDNB
 
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UPDATE:

So my work on the 6 heatpipe design is nearly done. Here are the new dimensions:



Specifications:

Socket Support: 1155. 1151, 1150, 1156, 2011 square and narrow Ilm, AM4
Total Dimensions: 48 (H) mm x 121 (W) mm x 143 (L) mm - including heatpipes
Fin Area Dimension: 18 (H) mm x 121 (W) mm x 116,5 (L) mm, 59 fins
Material: copper and aluminum base
Heatpipes: 4x 6mm heatpipes
Total Surface: ~128500mm²


So as you maybe see I changed also the surface size for compatibility. The width is 9mm smaller and I reduced the fin count from 60 to 59 for easier clip mounting with a 120mm fan.
On the rednerings I used a 120x120x15mm Silverstone fan. I also made some changes to the fan clip mount holes. Now we have holes on the outside for 120mm fans with a thickness of 15mm.
The inner mount holes are for 15, 14 and 12mm fans.


Pictures:


hslp-4836hsd8.jpg


hslp-4817os98.jpg


key_nexus.139tvuez.jpg


hslp-482h0sxs.jpg
 
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So I have been thinking and I can't imagine spending so much money on vlp ram. I will likely use the 92mm noctua and I would guess a lot of other people will too. It is by far the most compatible option and I think you should consider making it your priority.

I was thinking that the outside of the heatsink either side of the fan won't get much/any airflow with the 92mm. See my first rubbish sketch, it is not remotely to scale.

I was thinking you could profile the heatsink and add a cowl so the 92mm fan acts across the full heatsink. My second image shows one idea but there are lots of ways it could be done.
 

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UPDATE:

So my work on the 6 heatpipe design is nearly done. Here are the new dimensions:



Specifications:

Socket Support: 1155. 1151, 1150, 1156, 2011 square and narrow Ilm, AM4
Total Dimensions: 48 (H) mm x 121 (W) mm x 143 (L) mm - including heatpipes
Fin Area Dimension: 18 (H) mm x 121 (W) mm x 116,5 (L) mm, 59 fins
Material: copper and aluminum base
Heatpipes: 4x 6mm heatpipes
Total Surface: ~128500mm²

Did you manage to get an infrared camera so we can see the heat distribution? We need data!
 
So I have been thinking and I can't imagine spending so much money on vlp ram. I will likely use the 92mm noctua and I would guess a lot of other people will too. It is by far the most compatible option and I think you should consider making it your priority.

I was thinking that the outside of the heatsink either side of the fan won't get much/any airflow with the 92mm. See my first rubbish sketch, it is not remotely to scale.

I was thinking you could profile the heatsink and add a cowl so the 92mm fan acts across the full heatsink. My second image shows one idea but there are lots of ways it could be done.

This is not possible, because on some boards you can't center the fan 100% if you not use vlp ram.

Did you manage to get an infrared camera so we can see the heat distribution? We need data!

Currently I don't have the plan to get one.
 
Oh how I wish this would come out already!

I hope it is ready to buy within a year or less!
 
UPDATE:

So my work on the 6 heatpipe design is nearly done. Here are the new dimensions:



Specifications:

Socket Support: 1155. 1151, 1150, 1156, 2011 square and narrow Ilm, AM4
Total Dimensions: 48 (H) mm x 121 (W) mm x 143 (L) mm - including heatpipes
Fin Area Dimension: 18 (H) mm x 121 (W) mm x 116,5 (L) mm, 59 fins
Material: copper and aluminum base
Heatpipes: 4x 6mm heatpipes
Total Surface: ~128500mm²


So as you maybe see I changed also the surface size for compatibility. The width is 9mm smaller and I reduced the fin count from 60 to 59 for easier clip mounting with a 120mm fan.
On the rednerings I used a 120x120x15mm Silverstone fan. I also made some changes to the fan clip mount holes. Now we have holes on the outside for 120mm fans with a thickness of 15mm.
The inner mount holes are for 15, 14 and 12mm fans.


Pictures:


hslp-4836hsd8.jpg


hslp-4817os98.jpg


key_nexus.139tvuez.jpg


hslp-482h0sxs.jpg

Heatpipes: 4 x 6 mm feels not correct ?

What diameter are the 6 Heatpipes ??
 
according to Asrock ... YES
check the link, memory section - 4th line
- Supports ECC UDIMM memory modules (operate in non-ECC mode)

http://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/Fatal1ty Z270 Gaming-ITXac/index.asp#Specification



and this will work also:
https://www.server-hardware.com/de/shop/mta18adf2g72az-2g3b1,227593.html
 
This is not possible, because on some boards you can't center the fan 100% if you not use vlp ram.

So on some boards you can't have a 92mm fan centered? I thought the Intel "keep out zone" was that size...

I still think you should really consider ways of getting airflow to the whole heatsink with a 92mm fan.
 
Asrock X99E-ITX and I think for every AM4 board.
I've been looking at the l9a and the new am4 mounting kit, it all looks symmetrical, is there actually a slight offset to clear the ram or something? I can't figure it. Can you clarify?

I'll take your word about the asrock as you own it! :)
 
So you're just gonna keep making prototypes until one works?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a heatsink having a reflective metallic surface could be pretty hard to measure using an IR camera because of IR reflections. There's a simple trick to avoid the reflection problem, by placing a piece of thin matte black tape where measurements are desired and waiting a while until the tape temperature matches the surface it covers as closely as possible, and then take the measurement on the tape. But that could be pretty impractical with a heat sink, especially when it comes to the fins, and covering every surface of the entire heat sink would be infeasible.

Also, the heat source would preferably need to be stable, something like an adjustable heat plate (adjustable in order to simulate different heat levels).
 
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TDP is a useless value. You can cool a 140W TDP 5820k easier than an 91W TDP 7700k.

The reason is soldered vs. TIM connectiom between DIE and hestspreader.

Do you plan to test your current sample on some RYZEN processors before changing the design? I fell like the soldered CPU's will help a lot :)
 
My 5820k is also soldered.

Maybe it will perform better on a Ryzen CPU but also the competitor heatsinks will perform better on it. This means the CPU that I use for testing doesn't matter.

Only the temp distance to competitor products is interesting for me. I mentioned it earlier i like to be ~15°C better as the C7 or L9i.
 
My 5820k is also soldered.

Maybe it will perform better on a Ryzen CPU but also the competitor heatsinks will perform better on it. This means the CPU that I use for testing doesn't matter.

Only the temp distance to competitor products is interesting for me. I mentioned it earlier i like to be ~15°C better as the C7 or L9i.

That i can understand but you are shure your mounting kit from Thermalright got right pressure on the CPU to Hlsp48 ?

Did you get Nexus version with correct 2011 mounting kit and tryed it before order the new version ?
 
I'm very excited to see what is possible when running fanless. I have a de-lidded, CLUed 6100 running below 6100T voltages that I'm hoping to run passively with this cooler.
 
One advantage that the HSLP-48 has, is that it's fin-stack is free on both sides allowing air to blow straight through. This aspect of the design also helps draw in fresh air from the outside of the case, which is obviously an advantage over recirculating air inside the case. Perhaps this design can be combined with using a vapor chamber?

P.S. i'm not promoting a vapor chamber, and I'm actually quite happy with the current design.
P.P.S. the white paper from HP from one of the sides linked by SniperCzar is quite interesting (direct link to pdf)

After comparing myself t318 vs cooljag falcon II (which is almost the same as HSLP-48 V1) and both with several fans, on my 155 watts 22 cores xeon; the only combination that did not lead to +100ºC while rendering is t318 with Thermalright ty100 fan in push (closing the case did not affect the result, which is very confusing, and no other fan performed better, including noctua, and gamerstorm gs120)

Falcon failed with all fan combinations.
T318 holds 88º for one 4k render and +95º for concatenated renders wich is not common in my workload. For me it's enough to work, since gaming is not a problem at all. Maybe topping at 68º or so.


Let's see if V2 enhance the results, I'm very excited.
 
After comparing myself t318 vs cooljag falcon II (which is almost the same as HSLP-48 V1) and both with several fans, on my 155 watts 22 cores xeon; the only combination that did not lead to +100ºC while rendering is t318 with Thermalright ty100 fan in push (closing the case did not affect the result, which is very confusing, and no other fan performed better, including noctua, and gamerstorm gs120)

Falcon failed with all fan combinations.
T318 holds 88º for one 4k render and +95º for concatenated renders wich is not common in my workload. For me it's enough to work, since gaming is not a problem at all. Maybe topping at 68º or so.


Let's see if V2 enhance the results, I'm very excited.
Does this Xeon come with crappy TIM on the die or is it soldered? That is... If you were to delid, overall curious to see how much that would be holding it back?
 
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