So I tried Windows 10 as a user...

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Quartz-1

Supreme [H]ardness
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May 20, 2011
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Ordinarily I ran Windows 10 as an admin. I had forgotten why. After the Wannacrypt thing, I decided to try Windows 10 as a user again.

It was not pretty.

The right-click menus kept getting corrupt - something to do with having different levels of scaling on different monitors apparently.

Steam kept asking for credentials to update itself.

Treesize Pro (registered) would not start, even in admin mode, even when explicitly run as an admin.

The right-click menu option to run something as an administrator was absent from things which should have had it.

Adobe Acrobat DC wouldn't work.

Microsoft Edge insisted on handling PDFs, and I couldn't print them from Edge. I couldn't copy URLs from Edge either.

Outlook 2013 didn't like connecting to my email accounts.

And so on.

Changing my account to a Power User account did not fix any of the issues.

And so I reminded myself why I was running as an admin in the first place and I'm back to admin mode.
 
I can't believe that after all these years you still cannot run Windows the way an OS should be run. UAE under an admin account is designed to be more of an inconvenience than provide any real measure of security.
 
It's UAC and there is no actual Administrator account in Windows anymore, that was removed way back when Vista came into being and UAC was first introduced - it might be labeled "Administrator" but it has nothing in common with that level of access in previous versions of Windows prior to Vista. There are things in Windows that you simply are not allowed to do even logged in with "Administrator" privileges and that's how it should be more often than not considering. The OS will do what it has to do to protect itself from stupid users, and yes that includes people that think they're smart enough to know better than the OS or Microsoft too.

Protip: it's not your OS, as needs to be repeated from time to time. :D
 
Yeah, I am not entirely sure what the point of an actual user account is these days. Trying to use Windows in Normal user mode is so fucking tiresome, I rarely last 10 minutes.
 
For the sake of description, Windows calls it an administrator account so I think it's safe to continue calling it an administrator account. Point is that UAC is of limited effectiveness and malware jumps UAC all the time. Stop acting all defensive Tiberian, Windows 7 won't last forever.

8aOFiOv.png


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control
 
BulletDust said:
For the sake of description, Windows calls it an administrator account so I think it's safe to continue calling it an administrator account.
Click to expand...

It's called an Administrator account but it does not have true Administrator aka "God-like" privilege, and of course you knew that but you just had to go there anyway like you always do (post count, post count!). The point of UAC is exactly the meaning of the acronym: User Account Control. It's not meant to be a security thing to protect from some aspects of malicious intent, it's meant to provide a way of alerting the user of something that's attempting to create/delete/modify/write data of some kind to a protected part of the OS structure aka system areas which by design need to be protected or else the system might fail aka it's protecting itself.

You have much to learn, young Padawan, seriously you do and here's the first lesson should you choose to accept it: Windows is not Linux or UNIX and no concepts of Linux or Linux usage can or should ever be applied to Windows.
 
Tiberian said:
It's called an Administrator account but it does not have true Administrator aka "God-like" privilege, and of course you knew that but you just had to go there anyway like you always do (post count, post count!). The point of UAC is exactly the meaning of the acronym: User Account Control. It's not meant to be a security thing to protect from some aspects of malicious intent, it's meant to provide a way of alerting the user of something that's attempting to create/delete/modify/write data of some kind to a protected part of the OS structure aka system areas which by design need to be protected or else the system might fail aka it's protecting itself.

You have much to learn, young Padawan, seriously you do and here's the first lesson should you choose to accept it: Windows is not Linux or UNIX and no concepts of Linux or Linux usage can or should ever be applied to Windows.
Click to expand...

I have nothing to learn my friend, you just highlighted everything I originally claimed. Windows calls the account an administrator account, I refer to it as an administrator account - I fail to see the need to go into the concerning specifics when we're all already aware of them.
 
Tiberian said:
You have much to learn, young Padawan, seriously you do and here's the first lesson should you choose to accept it: Windows is not Linux or UNIX and no concepts of Linux or Linux usage can or should ever be applied to Windows.
Click to expand...

I think we are all well aware. Which is why MS and WIndows both need to die. No single company has ever done more dmg to the computer industry then MS.
 
At my last job I ran hundreds of users as Standard Users with UAC on and I didn't have any issues at all. Right click, run as admin ... saves me a ton of time than having to log people out and back in. That was on Windows 7, but I cannot imagine 10 breaking UAC.
 
bigdogchris said:
At my last job I ran hundreds of users as Standard Users with UAC on and I didn't have any issues at all. Right click, run as admin ... saves me a ton of time than having to log people out and back in. That was on Windows 7, but I cannot imagine 10 breaking UAC.
Click to expand...

Indeed. My line-of-business applications - Word et al - worked just fine. Too much else did not.
 
Nevertheless, Windows does not belong to anyone but Microsoft whether you like it or not and they're going to do whatever they damned well please with it so, I would have figured most of you folks would understand this by now but apparently that's not the case.
 
Tiberian said:
Protip: it's not your OS, as needs to be repeated from time to time. :D
Click to expand...

Just as well I don't use it then. Because it's sure as shit my PC and I intend to use it any way I please!

Funny thing is I never argued this point.
 
Tiberian said:
Nevertheless, Windows does not belong to anyone but Microsoft whether you like it or not and they're going to do whatever they damned well please with it so, I would have figured most of you folks would understand this by now but apparently that's not the case.
Click to expand...
Of course we know what they're trying to do. And we're here to resist and complain and bitch them into retreat.
 
Quartz-1 said:
Ordinarily I ran Windows 10 as an admin. I had forgotten why. After the Wannacrypt thing, I decided to try Windows 10 as a user again.

It was not pretty.

The right-click menus kept getting corrupt - something to do with having different levels of scaling on different monitors apparently.

Steam kept asking for credentials to update itself.

Treesize Pro (registered) would not start, even in admin mode, even when explicitly run as an admin.

The right-click menu option to run something as an administrator was absent from things which should have had it.

Adobe Acrobat DC wouldn't work.

Microsoft Edge insisted on handling PDFs, and I couldn't print them from Edge. I couldn't copy URLs from Edge either.

Outlook 2013 didn't like connecting to my email accounts.

And so on.

Changing my account to a Power User account did not fix any of the issues.

And so I reminded myself why I was running as an admin in the first place and I'm back to admin mode.
Click to expand...

I do run as a standard user here and there, not all the time but I tried a few things out on your list last night on my Surface Book and sig rig and couldn't replicated them. Adobe Acrobat and Treesize Free (I use WinStatDir which is free which also works but is restricted under a standard user) and was able to switch from Edge to Chrome and set Sumatra PDF as the default PDF viewer. Steam might require privilege escalation to update but it shouldn't be constant.
 
I have run with limited user account fine, but first you must use the command to enable the hidden admin account and password protect it then create the limited user account.

enable - Net user administrator /active:yes

disable - Net user administrator /active:no

Did you do that first?
 
BulletDust said:
For the sake of description, Windows calls it an administrator account so I think it's safe to continue calling it an administrator account. Point is that UAC is of limited effectiveness and malware jumps UAC all the time. Stop acting all defensive Tiberian, Windows 7 won't last forever.

8aOFiOv.png


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control
Click to expand...


The whole idea of UAC was to annoy users enough that developers had no choice but to write more secure code. Pretty much everyone before Vista expected every user to be an admin or it's fine if the entire application has system access. Sadly most people didn't get it at the time and currently a lot still don't understand, they think they are just taking advantage of limitations of UAC.
 
Quartz-1 said:
No. The account is a domain network account and is a member of the local Administrators group.
Click to expand...

So let me get this right: You ran as a 'user' that belongs to the local administrators group? ROFL!
 
No, when I ran as a user, the account was a member of the the PC's Users group.

I've been working with Microsoft's networking security since 3Com's 3+ Open LAN Manager.
 
I'm running on Windows 10 Enterprise right now as a standard domain user. Nothing special. I have another account I use to elevate when needed, but the last time that happened was Tuesday when troubleshooting an issue with my microphone (should not need elevation for that, IMO, so I submitted feedback about it). Other than that, I haven't really had any problems. I wonder if you have some weird GPO or settings that are screwing up the experience?
 
mrwizardno2 said:
I wonder if you have some weird GPO or settings that are screwing up the experience?
Click to expand...

I'm running Windows 10 Pro connected to Windows Server Essentials 2012 (NOT R2). The only tweak I've made is running WSUS on the server and setting Windows to use that.
 
ChadD said:
I think we are all well aware. Which is why MS and WIndows both need to die. No single company has ever done more dmg to the computer industry then MS.
Click to expand...

No company has done more to bring accessible computing to the masses than Microsoft.
 
I'm going to say you have something wrong with your computer/environment. I do most of what you have on a daily basis as a domain user without the issues you speak of.

Acrobat DC is my default PDF handler, it opens without issues, Outlook has no issues loading my profile (assuming we aren't having larger issues...), and we have several other users making use of these programs without issues.

Now, we have had some issues surrounding printers, but I don't believe that's an issue with W10. We had similar problems with W7.
 
Quartz-1 said:
I'm running Windows 10 Pro connected to Windows Server Essentials 2012 (NOT R2). The only tweak I've made is running WSUS on the server and setting Windows to use that.
Click to expand...
Have you tried creating a new profile? Maybe the current profile is corrupted? Just guessing and whistling in the wind. :)
 
ManofGod said:
No company has done more to bring accessible computing to the masses than Microsoft.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Microsoft has killed all the competition - it has copied (stolen) most of the innovations inside Windows. An Amiga was lightyears away from it's PC/windows counterparts.
 
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ChadD said:
I think we are all well aware. Which is why MS and WIndows both need to die. No single company has ever done more dmg to the computer industry then MS.
Click to expand...

I think you have that backwards, Windows actually helped the industry boom. It is also still the most versatile OS out there right now for the average user.

Quartz-1 said:
Ordinarily I ran Windows 10 as an admin. I had forgotten why. After the Wannacrypt thing, I decided to try Windows 10 as a user again.

It was not pretty.

The right-click menus kept getting corrupt - something to do with having different levels of scaling on different monitors apparently.

Steam kept asking for credentials to update itself.

Treesize Pro (registered) would not start, even in admin mode, even when explicitly run as an admin.

The right-click menu option to run something as an administrator was absent from things which should have had it.

Adobe Acrobat DC wouldn't work.

Microsoft Edge insisted on handling PDFs, and I couldn't print them from Edge. I couldn't copy URLs from Edge either.

Outlook 2013 didn't like connecting to my email accounts.

And so on.

Changing my account to a Power User account did not fix any of the issues.

And so I reminded myself why I was running as an admin in the first place and I'm back to admin mode.
Click to expand...

Most of these seem to be symptoms of not setting things up properly on your system. Like not setting up the screen zones correctly, not choosing the proper default programs, and not correctly configuring applications. I have run into many of these issues when I was first learning how to setup systems in an Enterprise environment. I am curious that you have many of these issues as a power user, as that is normally how I run Win10 at home. There is also the possibility that something was corrupted during an install or update.
 
B00nie said:
Wrong. Microsoft has killed all the competition - it has copied (stolen) most of the innovations inside Windows. An Amiga was lightyears away from it's PC/windows counterparts.
Click to expand...

Dude, Commodore went belly up and took the Amiga with it, that is all there is too it. Also, what competition? Mac OS 9? OS/2 Warp? Mac OS was not very good and IBM killed of OS/2 since they no longer wanted to be in that business.
 
ManofGod said:
Dude, Commodore went belly up and took the Amiga with it, that is all there is too it. Also, what competition? Mac OS 9? OS/2 Warp? Mac OS was not very good and IBM killed of OS/2 since they no longer wanted to be in that business.
Click to expand...

You can't say Microsoft has done this and that when it has been playing catchup and copying others in reality. All the true innovation has come elsewhere.
 
B00nie said:
You can't say Microsoft has done this and that when it has been playing catchup and copying others in reality. All the true innovation has come elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Has it now? Do tell. *gets popcorn for this one*
 
NoOther said:
I think you have that backwards, Microsoft actually killed all outside innovation and forced their product onto the consumer with under the table OEM deals effectively killing off the competition. It is also still the most versatile OS out there right now for the average user.
Click to expand...

I fixed your post for you, Microsoft are not the saviours of personal computing nor do they care for you as a consumer, they only care about the colour of what's in your back pocket. Although you are right, as it stands now Windows is the most versatile OS out there for the consumer and with that comes security issues in an attempt to make an OS compatible with the unknowledgeable masses, so in itself this is not necessarily a good thing.

ManofGod said:
Dude, Commodore went belly up and took the Amiga with it, that is all there is too it. Also, what competition? Mac OS 9? OS/2 Warp? Mac OS was not very good and IBM killed of OS/2 since they no longer wanted to be in that business.
Click to expand...

Nice cherry picked example of a scenario that you know only too well has nothing whatsoever to do with Microsoft. Stop posting shit.
 
NoOther said:
Has it now? Do tell. *gets popcorn for this one*
Click to expand...

If you don't realize that most things Windows includes today were made by someone else in an alternative OS before that, you need to study some computing history. Windows has always been behind in development.
 
BulletDust said:
I fixed your post for you, Microsoft are not the saviours of personal computing nor do they care for you as a consumer, they only care about the colour of what's in your back pocket. Although you are right, as it stands now Windows is the most versatile OS out there for the consumer and with that comes security issues in an attempt to make an OS compatible with the unknowledgeable masses, so in itself this is not necessarily a good thing.



Nice cherry picked example of a scenario that you know only too well has nothing whatsoever to do with Microsoft. Stop posting shit.
Click to expand...

There is nothing cherry picked about but, do try to stay in context, mmmk?

Edit: Windows 95 was an incredibly popular Operating System, I even remember installing it in beta form off of 20 floppy disks before it was even released. :)
 
ManofGod said:
There is nothing cherry picked about but, do try to stay in context, mmmk?

Edit: Windows 95 was an incredibly popular Operating System, I even remember installing it in beta form off of 20 floppy disks before it was even released. :)
Click to expand...

Here's the history of your precious Microsoft, as a company their interests were all about filling their coffers as opposed to specifically bringing computing to the masses. You make it sound like companies are all about uniting people for the common good; the harsh reality is that companies, like Microsoft, only care about marketing as a way to promote revenue - All these great ideas, they're nothing more than an attempt to lure the masses in.

http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumerchoicepaper.pdf

I specifically like this comment:

V. MICROSOFT’S MONOPOLIES HAVE HARMED CONSUMERS Microsoft’s conduct has allowed it to protect its monopolies, which has led to a lack of choice, higher prices, and less innovation than would otherwise have prevailed in a competitive marketplace. The barriers to entry surrounding Microsoft’s core monopolies remain very high, and Microsoft’s market shares and profit margins in desktop operating systems, office productivity suites, and browsers have continued to reflect its overwhelming monopoly power in these markets.148 In short, Microsoft’s misconduct has harmed and continues to harm consumers significantly.
Click to expand...

Nice try though.
 
BulletDust said:
Here's the history of your precious Microsoft, as a company their interests were all about filling their coffers as opposed to specifically bringing computing to the masses. You make it sound like companies are all about uniting people for the common good; the harsh reality is that companies, like Microsoft, only care about marketing as a way to promote revenue - All these great ideas, they're nothing more than an attempt to lure the masses in.

http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumerchoicepaper.pdf

I specifically like this comment:



Nice try though.
Click to expand...

Deflect, Deny, Defend.... Seems like I have heard that somewhere before. :D
 
ManofGod said:
Deflect, Deny, Defend.... Seems like I have heard that somewhere before. :D
Click to expand...

Once convicted of wrong doing, you can't call it a conspiracy theory anymore. EEE was a very real strategy MS developed and implemented and where convicted of using to set personal computing back years for consumers. For over 20 years the best technology never won while MS had the power to impose their will on the market. They claim to have moved past the EEE philosophy... but frankly I haven't seen the evidence of it. They seem to be the same old MS to me.
 
ChadD said:
Once convicted of wrong doing, you can't call it a conspiracy theory anymore. EEE was a very real strategy MS developed and implemented and where convicted of using to set personal computing back years for consumers. For over 20 years the best technology never won while MS had the power to impose their will on the market. They claim to have moved past the EEE philosophy... but frankly I haven't seen the evidence of it. They seem to be the same old MS to me.
Click to expand...

The best technology never won? LOL! Let me guess, that is Linux, right? :D
 
ManofGod said:
The best technology never won? LOL! Let me guess, that is Linux, right? :D
Click to expand...

Well seeing as you didn't read the PDF Bullet posted... let me give you highlights up to to around 2004 or so. I won't even get into HTML standards and being convicted of bribing the ISO in relation to the open doc format.

DR-Dos had multtasking while MS was still pushing MS-DOS 5.0.... they made the windows shell detect the DOS version and display BS "device Driver" msgs for machines using DR-DOS. Novell countered by adding masking code.... so when that didn't work as quickly as Gates liked. They forced OEMS to sign a deal that forced them to pay a fee for every machine they shipped no matter if it had MS-DOS on it or not. (so they no surprisingly didn't want to pay for 2 licences)

They forced Intel to drop features MS didn't care for but where supported by competing operating systems. Features like NSP... and Intels support for a bunch of Sun technologies.
“Intel has to accept that when we have a solution we like that is decent that that is the solution that wins.” —Bill Gates

These are both emails from over 20 years ago.
“If Intel has a real problem with us supporting [Intel’s microprocessor rival, AMD] then they will have to stop supporting Java Multimedia the way they are.” - Gates
“Intel to stop helping Sun create Java Multimedia APIs, especially ones that run well … on Windows” - Gates

In 1994 an onward MS extended the windows API for their Office program... and shared the new API extensions with no one.
“I have decided that we should not publish these [Windows 95 user interface] extensions. We should wait until we have a way to do a high level of integration that will be harder for likes of Notes, WordPerfect to achieve, and which will give Office a real advantage…. We can't compete with Lotus and WordPerfect/Novell without this.” —Bill Gates

Also in the 90s.... Unix was very popular with things like Solaris, and SGI machines ect. MS pretended to love Unix... they came up with the WISE windows interface source env ... as a way to worm MS software onto Unix machines. Companies loved this they could run MS software on their Unix gear to make their Unix servers work well with users windows software. That is until MS dropped the hammer by updating the windows software APIs and not the WISE ones creating tons of compatibility issues and creating sales bullets for their staff pushing windows servers. It was dirty and typical... and MS killed off the 90s resurgence of Unix servers. (had they not the internet would be running on Unix today not Linux)
“Please give me one good reason why we should even consider [enabling Microsoft technology to work on competing systems]. (Hint: any good answer needs to include making more money and helping kill Unix, Sybase or Oracle.)” —James Allchin, Microsoft Senior Vice-President

Netscape, we all know that story;
“Microsoft first proposed to Netscape that, rather than compete with each other, the two companies should enter an illegal conspiracy to divide up the market. When Netscape refused, Microsoft then used its Windows monopoly to, in Microsoft’s own words, ‘cut off Netscape’s air supply.’” —Joel Klein, Assistant Attorney General (quoting Paul Maritz, Microsoft’s then- Group Vice President of the Platform Applications Group)

Java... gets knocked a ton as it mostly deserves... but the fact that it sucks as hard as it does on windows is 100% MS fault.
“[W]e should just quietly grow j++ share and assume that people will take more advantage of our classes without ever realizing they are building win32-only java apps.” —Microsoft’s Thomas Reardon

"RealNetworks is like Netscape. The only difference is we have a chance to start this battle earlier in the game.” —Robert Muglia, Microsoft Senior Vice-President

Its been a long road in the server market to fight MS BS;
In the mid 90s MS changing windows so that Windows computers could not fully connect to any server that did not use Microsoft’s proprietary extensions unless the users installed special MS software. (meaning extra fees to join MS machines to Unix networks)
"What we are trying to do is use our server control to do new protocols and lock out Sun and Oracle specifically” -- Bill Gates



As for Linux... again I won't go into it. Yes MS have tried for years to kill Linux adoption by business mostly by spreading FUD about possible patent claims ect to scare off big clients.

MS never managed to kill of Linux... Linux has mostly won already. MS has the consumer desktop left and that's it. Linux won mobile, Linux won the server, Linux won the datacenter, Linux won the internet, Linux won the internet of things, Linux is still in the fight for the auto motive industry (may yet loose to Blackberrys QNX). Linux has already won. MS boosters have been so focused on home users desktops.... that they seem oblivious to all the Linux in their lives. Their is a reason most Linux users want nothing to do with .net and are mostly annoyed with MS being allowed a seat at the Linux table in general. They are not trustworthy >.<
 
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