ManofGod
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2007
- Messages
- 12,851
And you wonder why so many people buy Macs.
Not really, since MacOS is not better nor worse but, it does just work, like the other OSes and I like that today.
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And you wonder why so many people buy Macs.
Even if a base Linux install from scratch is faster setting everything else up be it Windows or Linux can get complicated, and there's been plenty of threads in this form where Linux installs, like Windows, were far from 10 minute affairs. But there's no way that a Windows 10 install with cumulative updates on a modern Core i5/i7 device with SSD should take over 4 hours. I've never come close to that even on Atom/eMMC machines from scratch, the worst I've seen there is about 2 hours. Installing Windows 10 on my sig rig last summer was the fastest Windows install from scratch I've personally ever done. The Intel 750 was the reason why and that from start to finish with a USB drive install and cumulative updates, vNvidia and motherboard drivers and Office 365 was 30 minutes.
Of course the point you keep deliberately ignoring is that I'm not talking about some basic install on your tablet with Windows, Nvidia drivers and Office 365 (Office 365, depending on internet speed can take around half an hour to install BTW due to the fact it uses a web installer). I'm talking about everything, everything you use fully configured and ready to go.
Everything is meaningless when you're talking about setting up a device because what is everything? I have over 400 applications installed on my sig rig taking up around 2 TB in just app storage alone. I just added a half terabyte SSD I had on hand to it this week because I was running low on space. Things like VS and Eclipse from scratch in and off themselves require hours of setup. Even if I were running Linux setting up anything close to comparable would take many hours from scratch.
I don't think you really understand what Linux users are saying to you. If you mount your /home directory on its own drive you can just keep it and reinstall your distro (or a different one) any time and just point to your /home directory. It means you don't have to set everything up again. You may have to redownload a few programs but you don't have to reconfigure them again.
That doesn't mean that you can't still drag and drop. When you run the program for the first time on the new endpoint, it will rebuild the registry items.
That's funny because I do it all the time. The only thing saved in the registry are low level (kernel level) settings and items telling windows how to properly launch the program. When you launch a program for the first time on the new OS install, it has a single pop up the first time saying it has to add itself to the registry and will restart itself in order to do that.
...but if you say it doesn't work then I guess it doesn't.
That's funny because I do it all the time. The only thing saved in the registry are low level (kernel level) settings and items telling windows how to properly launch the program. When you launch a program for the first time on the new OS install, it has a single pop up the first time saying it has to add itself to the registry and will restart itself in order to do that.
...but if you say it doesn't work then I guess it doesn't.
Works fine for Steam (with full game library) Origin (with full game library), Office 2013, VLC, itunes, mediamonkey, chrome, Project Reality (bf2), and my tv tuner software.
Every program I listed with exception to Blizzard games have a registry entry. Like I mentioned it before, thry just creates a new entry on the first launch. Why don't you give it a shot yourself since you are so sure about it?
Office 2013 is from my office 365 subscription that is tied to my Microsoft account. But go ahead and call me a liar. Thats really cool of you.
I've worked a ton with Crystal Reports. I'm a DBA and help with the reports and data analysis since our department is small and our main data analyst isn't great with sql.
Edit: This post is just a side note. Ive never had to transfer crystal reports from one system to another. Ive just done fresh installs. I can't speak for my method and I doubt it would work considering the manual work it takes to get it talking to our databases.
I highly doubt Office2013 will work just by copying the file folder. It would make pirating it extremely trivial. Steam, VLC, iTunes... they're all programs designed to be portable and rely on the internet. Possibly the same case is with Office2013. Any program that actually stores something in the registry will not work at all or properly after doing the copy.
Either you have an incredibly limited experience with Windows software or you're outright lying. Which one is it?
Dude, please grow up. Signed, The internet. Instead of calling him a liar, how about trying out what he says and see if it is true, eh? On a different note, does the programs have to be installed to the same drive letter?
You miss the point as usual. A large proportion of Windows software will break if you strip the install time registry from it.
Cool, thanks, coming from you, that is a Hugh compliment. Me, I am more interested in what AltTabins is saying and how he reproduced the results. More than interested in learning more than I already know.
Wow, this discussion is still going? Whelp, time to throw my hand on the table again.
Windows takes longer to get initially setup than Linux IF AND ONLY IF you were prepared ahead of time for setting Linux back up. Now, what do I mean by this?
Linux can be installed and updated in about 20 minutes on my desktop. Windows 10 falls shy of this by taking roughly 30-40 minutes to do the same. The whole who updates faster argument is frankly a moot point here, because Linux is faster. Period. It just is, and with Linux not only is your system updated, but also all of your software. I can update every single package on my system, with the exception of Steam games, with one command in the terminal (sudo pacman -Syu) or one click in the updater. Everything gets updated. My office suite, web browsers, all of it. This is such a nice aspect of it, that Windows just doesn't compare. Now, that being said, when I'm setting up a Windows install, I don't manually install the applications I want. I use Ninite which goes a long way to making this process a lot like installing and updating applications in Linux, but it isn't the same and it isn't as fast.
As far as themes, settings, etc. Bullet is right about reusing the same /home partition. This makes things instantanious as long as you installed your themes locally. If I reinstall my OS right now while reusing my /home, everything will be exactly as it was before with the exception of having to reinstall applications I use. However, Bullet isn't considering Windows 10's ability to sync settings to the cloud. When I install Windows 10, I only have to adjust a few settings because most of my customizations are configured as soon as I log in with my MS Account. This goes a long way to making Windows 10 very quick and easy to get set up the way I want it.
Now to the preparation bit. I tend to distro hop on Linux quite a bit, which means I end up reinstalling a lot of applications by hand. I'm currently working on a script that will automatically install all of the applications I use, remove the ones I don't, and change config files so that my desktop will be setup the way I want it within seconds by executing one script. This is what I mean by prepared. Sure Linux updates and installs software way faster, but theming and customising can take a hell of a lot longer because of all the options available. Now, I love having those options, and as a tinkerer this is part of the appeal of Linux for me, but it does take time. Anyone who claims that tinkering with Linux doesn't take more time than with Windows is just kidding themselves.
What really matters is what kind of user you are. What are you looking for. If you want a system that just works 95% of the time with minimal fuss, then Windows really is the way to go. It has the best hardware support out of the box, it has the most software support, and it's the easiest to get setup out of the box because you don't have as many options. This is just the truth. Of course, for someone who just wants to use a cmoputer for browsing the web, reading email, watching videos, etc, I'b be more than happy to install Linux Mint for them, and say here you go. If you only care about gaming, then using anything but WIndows is kinda silly at this point. If you want to tinker and play around with stuff, and are willing to roll up your sleeves when something inevitably breaks, then Linux si a great option. I run an Arch based distro because I'm not opposed to fixing things when they break, which they do. I actually quite enjoy it if I'm honest. That's not to say that things break all the time, they don't, but it does happen. Also, another platform that I've recommended to people who just want a basic computing experience is Chrome OS. I've been recommending that as an option for years now, and everyone who's gotten one on my recommendation has told me they love it. Out of all available computing platforms, the one that truly "just works" without any issues for the vast majority of users out there is Chrome OS. It's fast, lightweight, pretty much never breaks, and does everything most people want in a computer. In my opinion it really is the only OS that "just works" out of the box. Of course, it's also the most restrictive and closed down.
So what does that tell us? It tells us that the more restricted and closed down an OS/ecosystem gets, generally the more reliablie and easy to use it is. Sorry Bullet, but it's kinda hard to argue this fact. The more control imposed by the platform holder, the less likely things are to break, and typically this also makes for an easier to use platform. It just kinda makes sense. This also goes back to my argument that Linux's biggest strength (openness) is also it's biggest weakness depending on your point of view and what you want out of your platform. People like you and I are more than happy to fix things when they break, edit config files to make something work just the way we want, and try out different stuff. Most people however don't want to do this. Most people want either something a little more tightly managed (Windows), or something that's more like an appliance (ChromeOS and more and more MacOS). Why do you think tablets and phones have started eating into the traditional computing market?
I do think that eventually Linux will become the dominate platform for games, etc if MS continues down their current path. Windows 10 S and the focus on Windows as a service should concern each and every single Window sgamer out there. It is obvious that MS wants to control the platform unlike ever before. They are becoming more and more like Apple, and I wouldn't be surprised if the day comes where the only applications that can be installed are from the MS Store. I think this is what drove Valve to push Linux so hard. I thought Valve and Tim Sweeney were stupid a couple of years ago when they were claiming this was the case, but if MS takes the path I think they will take, then maybe they weren't wrong. MS is trying to turn Windows into an appliance, which will start driving people away. I know it sure did for me.
/thread. Best post this subforum has seen in years.
Linux just does work also. If Linux could play all the games and have the apps, Windows would drop off as an other OS.Not quite, Windows will never be a locked down S only version, just not going to happen. Clearly, there is a version called S but that is not to replace any other version.
As far as Linux ever being the gaming OS of choice, that will never happen either. The fact is, Windows does just work In fact, the only reason I ever have personal issues is because of hardware only itself.
Linux just does work also. If Linux could play all the games and have the apps, Windows would drop off as an other OS.
MS is working it's way into that happening. I wish them luck. They need it.
First off, I never said this was going to happen, I said it was going to happen if MS continues down the path they are going. You say 10 S will never replace any other version, and I say that it's almost painfully obvious that MS is positioning it as the replacement for 10 Home. As I've said in an earlier post, I believe 10 S will replace 10 Home, leaving Pro and Enterprise to hold down the non-locked down OS fort. You can deny this all you want, but if that wasn't the case then why do you think MS would build the premium Surface laptop and put 10 S on it? They're testing the waters. They want 10 S to become the average consumer OS, leaving Pro and Enterprise for everyone else. And never say never. Anything is possible, but I do agree that it will take quite a while, especially since for all the good Valve has done, Steam OS has been handled pretty badly so far, and Steam Machines were a HORRIBLE unforced error. If Valve would make SteamOS a proper OS that runs as a proper desktop with access to good repositories, then they'd go a long way to making Linux more approachable to gamers. As it stands now, it's UI is horrible, and software availability is terrible because even though it runs Debian, many of the repositories are disabled by default.Not quite, Windows will never be a locked down S only version, just not going to happen. Clearly, there is a version called S but that is not to replace any other version.
As far as Linux ever being the gaming OS of choice, that will never happen either. The fact is, Windows does just work In fact, the only reason I ever have personal issues is because of hardware only itself.
Ok, let's not kid ourselves. In a great many games the loss is WAY WAY WAY more than 4-5 FPS. In most AAA titles I've played I either get roughly 50-70% of the performance in Linux as I do in the same games under Windows. The there's the issue with frame pacing. If a game doesn't have a dramatic performance drop, I tend to notice many games also suffer from awful frame pacing under Linux. Now, I think Vulkan will change things dramatically, because the one I've tried so far (Mad Max Beta), the performance was fantastic with no noticeable bugs, judders, etc.know this is where heatle says ya ya ya but VR and I don't want to give up 4-5 FPS in any game.
First off, I never said this was going to happen, I said it was going to happen if MS continues down the path they are going. You say 10 S will never replace any other version, and I say that it's almost painfully obvious that MS is positioning it as the replacement for 10 Home. As I've said in an earlier post, I believe 10 S will replace 10 Home, leaving Pro and Enterprise to hold down the non-locked down OS fort. You can deny this all you want, but if that wasn't the case then why do you think MS would build the premium Surface laptop and put 10 S on it? They're testing the waters. They want 10 S to become the average consumer OS, leaving Pro and Enterprise for everyone else. And never say never. Anything is possible, but I do agree that it will take quite a while, especially since for all the good Valve has done, Steam OS has been handled pretty badly so far, and Steam Machines were a HORRIBLE unforced error. If Valve would make SteamOS a proper OS that runs as a proper desktop with access to good repositories, then they'd go a long way to making Linux more approachable to gamers. As it stands now, it's UI is horrible, and software availability is terrible because even though it runs Debian, many of the repositories are disabled by default.
Ok, let's not kid ourselves. In a great many games the loss is WAY WAY WAY more than 4-5 FPS. In most AAA titles I've played I either get roughly 50-70% of the performance in Linux as I do in the same games under Windows. The there's the issue with frame pacing. If a game doesn't have a dramatic performance drop, I tend to notice many games also suffer from awful frame pacing under Linux. Now, I think Vulkan will change things dramatically, because the one I've tried so far (Mad Max Beta), the performance was fantastic with no noticeable bugs, judders, etc.
Ok, let's not kid ourselves. In a great many games the loss is WAY WAY WAY more than 4-5 FPS. In most AAA titles I've played I either get roughly 50-70% of the performance in Linux as I do in the same games under Windows. The there's the issue with frame pacing. If a game doesn't have a dramatic performance drop, I tend to notice many games also suffer from awful frame pacing under Linux. Now, I think Vulkan will change things dramatically, because the one I've tried so far (Mad Max Beta), the performance was fantastic with no noticeable bugs, judders, etc.
And that's not a from scratch setup which I repeatedly mentioned. If you're using existing data fine. But if one is going that route is a zillion times easier just to close a disk.