HBO Declines to Renew Amazon Contract Leading to Removal of Shows in 2018

People used to put descramblers on their cable boxes as well, the innovation spawning from that didn't do us any favors either along with hdcp etc. IMO very rarely does anything good come from piracy other than some kids getting things for free.
 
Do you not think labor has any value? Can you have a mechanic diagnose an oil leak and then not pay him because his shop hasn't given you any parts? Can your boss refuse to pay you this week because he hasn't taken anything off of your person?

You need to stop thinking in terms of direct causation and instead start thinking in terms of overall correlation. "I didn't steal a DVD off the shelf" is irrelevant when what we're really talking about is you stealing the time and efforts that went into producing that content in the first place. When you buy a DVD from BestBuy you aren't just paying for the disc platter and box art that it was shipped with. You are paying for the cameras used to record the actors giving dialogue, the studio that warehoused the computers used to edit the footage, etc. This is how a price is determined, and is a basic tenant of any business. If you decide to start your own PC repair shop tomorrow then the cost of of your business is derived upon the expenses that went into producing it. Whether it's physical or not is irrelevant, very tangible services were certainly rendered in the process of delivering your digital goods. It was never "free" just to make a copy of something.


With Hollywood Accounting', the cost of a movie is not directly related to its expenses. You are making a poor argument in reality. Hollywood is MASSIVELY inflated, it should not take $100+ million dollars to make compelling movies, period.
When a fifth of a movies budget goes to the star, its a big problem.
 
I think that's his point. You wouldn't shop at those places if you could only get what you wanted in such a piecemeal fashion.

Reading replies to this it seems it's not uncommon for people to do this. I wonder if this is more of a product of me living in a rural area where I don't have as many options. I honestly can't imagine myself ever wanting to shop for groceries like that though.
 
Firstly, piracy does not amount to stealing. You're not taking a physical item from a person or organization. This is the definition of theft.
So I ask again, if your boss doesn't give you a paycheck next Friday then you'd be ok with that, because he has not stolen anything physical from you?

It also allows people to be exposed to media they didn't know they wanted. Most of my favorite musicians would be unknown to me even to this day without Napster.
That's only true for artists you've never heard. What about people pirating Justin Bieber and Britney Spears? They already know what they're getting so whats the excuse?

In my opinion, people are pirating TV shows because they are getting a better experience. No ads, watch it on your schedule, etc.
I can definitely agree with that. I think the entertainment industry could do something a huge favor by just looking at how people consume media and then just delivering it in that format. Netflix is catching on, just lacking the content to really push them into the premier viewing medium. There have already been talks about streaming AAA movies Day 1 for like $50 since that's close to what you'd pay anyway to go to a theater and I'd be down with that. Watch Logan or Ghost in the Shell at home on release day for example. Pause when you want, get a beer when you want, a BJ when you want, etc.
 
I'm another one voting with my wallet against YASS (Yet Another Streaming Service).

I have Amazon Prime and buy movies and shows through it all the time.
I have Netflix, and will likely keep it despite the kerfuffle with Bill Nye because I'm basically granting access to family members and it'd leave them out in the cold.

I basically refuse to pay monthly fees to ten zillion different pissant streaming services for content.

Fuck that, I'll pirate first if that's the way it's going to be. And if the stuff isn't available pirate, I'll simply DO WITHOUT.

Shit like this is why I don't have Cable TV in the first place. Not paying out all that money for one or two shows I may happen to want to watch.
 
Do you use the same argument at the grocery store? "I'd gladly pay $50 to fill my shopping cart but I will NOT pay for each individual item I throw in there"??? What about the movie theater? "I'll gladly pay a yearly membership to see all the big screen feature films I want but I will NOT pay for each individual movie that comes out"???

I don't think it's a very good analogy. This is more like having to pay at a different cash register for every item in your shopping cart. Even if the cost is the same, it's a hassle to have to have half a dozen different streaming services.
 
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So basically you want a bundled service like Comcast that offers everything whether you like it or not.
No I want a service that offers every shows on a pick and choose basis. Say there are tiers. And you pay tier 1 you can choose 5 shows to watch every month. tier 2 10 shows and so on. Or even can be a pay per view basis I don't care. What I do care about is that it's delivered over a single easy to use platform hassle free, and allows me complete freedom in the playback device.
 
It's a bullshit excuse that you can pirate because you "wouldn't pay for it anyway." Or, the way it is offered just doesn't appeal to your vague criteria of a proper streaming service, or some nonsense, so you feel justified to pirate it. Yes, content holders were dragged kicking and screaming into streaming. Music and video streaming took a long time to develop and was unquestionably pushed along by the need to offer convenient alternatives to ripping content. But, pirating something possibly making sense from an efficiency and convenience standpoint stopped being a thing within the past decade. It is now totally convenient to basically stream or download anything you want, legally. In fact legal alternatives are often more convenient than the illegal ones. Yes, you have to pay for it. This is the future many people, including myself, wanted when we were just trying to listen to that one song, but didn't want to buy the whole CD in the silly oversized carboard plastic box at K-Mart for $25.00. But, now people are coming up with variations on the same old excuses, despite now having that convenience offered to them legally for money. "Well, I don't want to give them my email; well, I don't want to have to visit different websites or use different apps." (Seriously? Like that is fucking too hard?")

Stuff costs money. It's fair to criticize HBO Now being too expensive. Who here hasn't used a friend's login to watch an episode of Game of Thrones or a basketball game on ESPN that requires a silly comcast login? Sure, we've all been there. But the silly bullshit excuses about how you wouldn't pay for it anyway so it's totally cool to pirate a whole fucking season of Walking Dead, or you refuse to use multiple apps because that's just sooooo difficult to remember 3 login passwords or whatever, give me a break. Streaming content is currently more convenient than it ever has been; content developers are getting the picture and cutting the cable cords and offering us a la carte content. That is a good thing. That is the future we all wanted 20 years ago when we were downloading single songs (or if you were bold and had a decent ethernet connection in your dorm, entire discographies) on eMule and Napster. But guess what? This future was always going to cost money. It is a fantasy to think anyone here is some day going to be offered some sort of cheap all inclusive streaming service for $10 a month that has everything you want. (Netflix is close.) That is never going to happen. Mighty convenient, if that's your excuse to pirate stuff...
 
This is still completely different. My boss not paying me for time spent is physically harming me in that I'm not getting an agreed upon sum of funds for my time spent. A pirate downloading a file doesn't impact revenue/profit in that most of the time it would have never been realized. You're talking about pulling from an imagined block of funds vs an expected block of funds (my pay) - big difference.



I understand what you're saying but digital media is vastly different than physical media. Me producing a physical copy of something instantly goes into my cost of business. If a non-physical copy if stolen, then those are funds that are never materialized. I'm not saying it's right, but it's two very different thought processes. It just is. The same goes with your pirating of Walking Dead there. Since you don't care about seeing the show necessarily, do you download it, is it funds necessarily lost for the media company? No, b/c you wouldn't have bought it anyhow.

Sounds like a whole lot of self justification for what is still technically, and legally theft.

Now, if someone is pirating everything under the sun, then there is a problem with that, but most pirates (I would venture to say at least a solid half without seeing solid research) just would not have paid for what they are downloading.
But this isn't really isn't accurate. While they may not pay to download, or purchase the movie, If they view it in other ways, such as a part of your cable TV service, or on free commercial television, the content creators will get paid for you viewing by the broadcasters airing it. It may not come directly from your wallet, but they are being paid for your viewing. Your cost is in the form of whatever subscription service charges you pay, or your time for viewing commercials which in turn pay for the content. Piracy means they don't see a penny.
 
FYI, to get HBO shows in Canada you basically have to sell your soul to Bell. You can get the HBO back catalogue (minus GoT) with CraveTV for $8 a month, but to watch current shows you need to pay $100+ a month for a whole bunch of shit you will never use.

So ya, I pirate GoT, because I'm hoping that eventually my doing so will contribute to Bell / HBO offering better services in Canada.

There is a cheap/legal way to get GoT in Canada. Buy the Seasons on Blu Ray. Me and a group of friends do this and pass them around.

It's the best quality, It's legal, and the cost is small.
 
There is a cheap/legal way to get GoT in Canada. Buy the Seasons on Blu Ray. Me and a group of friends do this and pass them around.

It's the best quality, It's legal, and the cost is small.

That's great if you don't care about having the whole thing ruined for you ahead of time.

From the perspective of the production company there is no difference between pirating and sharing. The only difference is that they've already lost the sharing battle.
 
TLDR; summary

Cable services: waaaa!!! overpriced bundling, want ala carte.

Streaming services: waaa!!!! yet another streaming service that doesn't work with my TV. Want more bundles.

Fed up: waaa!! I give up, just pirate it.
 
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Time Warner Inc. has decided to remove HBO from the Amazon Prime streaming service in 2018. This change stems from a change in perception of Amazon's streaming service as they now see it as a competitor. HBO's CEO Richard Pepler discussed how immensely popular older HBO shows were on the Amazon Prime streaming service. Amazon in 2014 was granted the right to stream finished shows that were 3 years out of their original run on HBO. This $250 million - $300 million deal doesn't make sense for HBO after analyzing the popularity of the shows. They have decided to play the long game and add them to the standalone HBO Now service as they see these older gems as added value to attract more consumers to their service.

Congrats HBO. Greed has now caused you to receive LESS money.
 
That's great if you don't care about having the whole thing ruined for you ahead of time.

From the perspective of the production company there is no difference between pirating and sharing. The only difference is that they've already lost the sharing battle.

Kind of agree with that. They all have the same perception of used sales. Makes sense though, someone bought your product and you didn't make money off it, but yet they shouldn't because it already sold once.

The producers would really 'want' it to be handled like taxes, where everytime something changes hands you get money from it even if it was within the same household.
 
AT&T buys Time Warner. Time Warner owns HBO. HBO pulls all content from at&t competitors. AT&T: hey guys if you want HBO you have to subscribe to DirecTV now our crappy streaming service!
 
Ugh...I'm getting fucking tired of every goddamn company trying to launch their own stupid fucking service. One or two sources is enough. I feel the same damn way about game companies. Bethesdanet, UPlay, Steam, Origin, and Blizzard's bullshit. For fuck's sake stop it!

I saw this coming when Netflix started streaming and the media companies started applying thumbscrews to them on pricing. They all want a slice of the pie and want their premium for it. People signed up for streaming services like Netflix because they were reasonable. With Netflix producing their own programming, companies like HBO are really shooting themselves in the foot trying to protect their model of profitability.
 
You're stealing the gas of everyone had to drive in to work and produce the show. You're stealing the cost of electricity that they paid to have pumped into the building to drive the equipment to produce the show. You're stealing the hours upon hours of labor someone put into working late nights so they could go and buy groceries for their family at the end of the week. If someone's only source of funding paying their rent is to sell a painting and you copy it, how are they going to pay their rent? They'll just stop painting and do something else instead that you cant copy, and now you don't get to see any more paintings.

The main reason I don't care about this moral argument anymore is that many of the entertainment industry have no problem living off of government tax subsidies while promoting more socialist government. Stop the preaching and hypocrisy and I would care about your moral stealing argument. Hell, Comcast now charges me a "re transmission fee" for over the air channels that I can get just fine via antenna. I only tolerate cable tv because my internet rates would go up and I wouldn't be able to get a higher internet speed without a tv package (and now usually a 1-2 year contract for pete's sake). At least comcast offers more on demand video for channels you are "subscribed to". Oh but thsoe also have commercials in them. In the end, I've found I can do just fine without tv/movies.
 
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Sounds like a whole lot of self justification for what is still technically, and legally theft.

Is it legally and/or morally theft to download a tv show from a broadcast network or cable network that is part of my cable subscription? The over the air broadcasters beamed their signal over my house against my individual will, not that I care but so what if I use an antenna and watch the show, record it and edit out commercials for the future. Is it wrong to skip that middle step and download it via the net?
 
Yes I do my shopping at a single place almost all the time. I thought everyone had a preferred shop and doesn't like going into multiple places wasting time and fuel. When I was living in Belgium I did all my shopping in the local Carefour market, when I was living in Germany I did my shopping in the local Rewe, now I do my shopping in the nearest Auchan. I don't know maybe the shops in the US are shit, I've never been there, but here in europe you can do all your shopping in one place.
Even if it was bullshit, which I assure you it is not. I still wouldn't want to go to 5 different streaming services to get the tv shows I'd like to watch which was the point all along.

Wow, I’m the exact opposite I shop at lowest price for what I type of food I’m cooking but living in southern California there are tons of ethnic markets and choices. My folks had similar shopping habits plus I like to cook and eat! So it will go something like this, just about all these places are less than 15 miles from where I live.

Junk Food/Cheap stuff
-Walmart/Target

“American”
-Stater Bros/Ralphs (Kroger)

Specially Items/Smaller portions
-Trader Joe’s/Whole Foods/Sprouts/Local Farmers Market

Bulk Items/Prime Steaks
-Costco

Mexican items
-Northgate/Vallarta/Big Saver Foods

Chinese/Vietnamese items/Asian veggies/live seafood (fish, crab, lobster)
-99 Ranch Market/Shun Fat

Korean items/Fruits
-Zion/HMart

Japanese Items
-Mistsuwa, Nijiya

Filipino items
-Seafood City

Indian Items
-Pioneer Cash and Carry
 
I will pirate all of it... screw them all. I pay for services that make it easier for me to watch their content. I pay for netflix... cause I can watch any of their content at any time without having to store massive amounts of it on my computer.

HBO Now isn't an option in Canada... and all the TV networks that want to start a service can bite me as well. Most of it is free over the air anyway.

Art should be free... and so it is. lol

The masses have shown them that we are willing to pay for easy to use services. If instead they want to haggle with each other over pricing and who gets to control the platform ect. Then I will "steal" from them... an no I don't subscribe to pirating a Copy of a art work as theft. Sorry not theft, I have not removed something from another possession.

Theft;
"the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another."

I really wish people would stop buying into the Music/Movie industries attempt to redefine English words.

And for the record... I own aprox 300+ blu rays at this point. Sub to Netflix, and pay for basic cable. I "pirate" plenty and don't own one "digital era" movie that I didn't pirate first. The entertainment industry needs to figure their shit out >.< Every pirate I know is willing to pay for good service, high quality packaged product... but if you make me jump through hoops to access your product, I have zero issues making digital copies of Art, if I enjoy it I will even support you with a purchase.
 
I saw this coming when Netflix started streaming and the media companies started applying thumbscrews to them on pricing. They all want a slice of the pie and want their premium for it. People signed up for streaming services like Netflix because they were reasonable. With Netflix producing their own programming, companies like HBO are really shooting themselves in the foot trying to protect their model of profitability.

I don't think this is going to affect HBO at all. HBO has, for decades, convinced millions of people to pay $15 a month on top of their cable bill for HBO's package. HBO is, in many ways, the predecessor to streaming services and of all the predecessors, probably the best positioned. They are followed up by the 2nd tier premium cable offerings which, half the time, were simply bundled into the base package as a sign-up enticement.

The losers are the likes of CBS and other purveyors of non-destination programming. Nobody is waiting on pins and needles for the next NCIS spinoff premiere. Star Trek might be, but it is not enough to support a 12 month sub.
 
With Hollywood Accounting', the cost of a movie is not directly related to its expenses. You are making a poor argument in reality. Hollywood is MASSIVELY inflated, it should not take $100+ million dollars to make compelling movies, period.
When a fifth of a movies budget goes to the star, its a big problem.

This has zero to do with them asking for your money in exchange for viewing the content they created. It may very well be that its overpriced and massively inflated. That doesn't mean you get to use that as an excuse to not pay for it.

Actually it's not. The infraction is "copyright infringement", not theft.

Actually it is. You make the assertion that because the information is digitized it must therefore be made freely available to you and all you are doing is circumventing immoral restrictions. This is not the truth and is only a lie you tell yourself to feel better about stealing things. I am personally very much against infinite copyrights and a lot of the stuff the studios do to try to restrict content. But I have to agree here that they have a right to get paid for their services - even though I myself chose not to pay or watch their content until it comes in a format I am agreeable to (i.e. bluray).

HBO inherently creates a product they intend to sell to you. You have taken it and not reimbursed them for their services. That is theft. This is no different than if you sneak into a movie theater to watch a movie.

On the other hand if HBO were to broadcast this over the air and not charge you for the right to view it i.e. like say a TV show on CBS or ABC then I would have no problem with you downloading and sharing it with others. Why? One was made freely available to the public and the other is not.
 
It's a bullshit excuse that you can pirate because you "wouldn't pay for it anyway." Or, the way it is offered just doesn't appeal to your vague criteria of a proper streaming service, or some nonsense, so you feel justified to pirate it. Yes, content holders were dragged kicking and screaming into streaming. Music and video streaming took a long time to develop and was unquestionably pushed along by the need to offer convenient alternatives to ripping content. But, pirating something possibly making sense from an efficiency and convenience standpoint stopped being a thing within the past decade. It is now totally convenient to basically stream or download anything you want, legally. In fact legal alternatives are often more convenient than the illegal ones. Yes, you have to pay for it. This is the future many people, including myself, wanted when we were just trying to listen to that one song, but didn't want to buy the whole CD in the silly oversized carboard plastic box at K-Mart for $25.00. But, now people are coming up with variations on the same old excuses, despite now having that convenience offered to them legally for money. "Well, I don't want to give them my email; well, I don't want to have to visit different websites or use different apps." (Seriously? Like that is fucking too hard?")

Stuff costs money. It's fair to criticize HBO Now being too expensive. Who here hasn't used a friend's login to watch an episode of Game of Thrones or a basketball game on ESPN that requires a silly comcast login? Sure, we've all been there. But the silly bullshit excuses about how you wouldn't pay for it anyway so it's totally cool to pirate a whole fucking season of Walking Dead, or you refuse to use multiple apps because that's just sooooo difficult to remember 3 login passwords or whatever, give me a break. Streaming content is currently more convenient than it ever has been; content developers are getting the picture and cutting the cable cords and offering us a la carte content. That is a good thing. That is the future we all wanted 20 years ago when we were downloading single songs (or if you were bold and had a decent ethernet connection in your dorm, entire discographies) on eMule and Napster. But guess what? This future was always going to cost money. It is a fantasy to think anyone here is some day going to be offered some sort of cheap all inclusive streaming service for $10 a month that has everything you want. (Netflix is close.) That is never going to happen. Mighty convenient, if that's your excuse to pirate stuff...
Last I checked I were the customer. As soon as they start offering the service I'm willing to pay for I'll pay for it. You know supply and demand. And right now my demand has almost zero overlap with their supply. And it's not up to me to change. If they want me as a customer they can change what they offer. Not the other way around. I'm happy with not consuming their content if they're not willing to offer it on terms I find acceptable.

I could pirate all the games I play. But I don't, I buy every single one of them. And games are much more expensive than streaming subscriptions or blurays. So that should already give you all the answers about where lies the problem with the entertainment industry. You can sit there telling yourself that everyone who pirates movies and tv shows would do it no matter what, but it's far from the truth.
We just want to be treated fairly and want proper service. Without being treated like we're out to steal their shit and distribute it to the whole damn county for free. Not to mention the completely unrealistic hardware and software restrictions all on the altar of DRM.
 
Last I checked I were the customer. As soon as they start offering the service I'm willing to pay for I'll pay for it. You know supply and demand. And right now my demand has almost zero overlap with their supply. And it's not up to me to change. If they want me as a customer they can change what they offer. Not the other way around. I'm happy with not consuming their content if they're not willing to offer it on terms I find acceptable.

I could pirate all the games I play. But I don't, I buy every single one of them. And games are much more expensive than streaming subscriptions or blurays. So that should already give you all the answers about where lies the problem with the entertainment industry. You can sit there telling yourself that everyone who pirates movies and tv shows would do it no matter what, but it's far from the truth.
We just want to be treated fairly and want proper service. Without being treated like we're out to steal their shit and distribute it to the whole damn county for free. Not to mention the completely unrealistic hardware and software restrictions all on the altar of DRM.

Buying video games doesnt give somone a pass for pirating movies/tv shows. If you arent happy with their content, business model, or distribution etc you have a right to not purchase it. What you dont have is a right to take it anyway and claim some sort of exemption. If you watch their content you still have demand, you just refuse to give them money for it.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be treated fairly and have good service. Thats why you buy things at some places and not others. But thats not an excuse to not pay for it and still use the service. Arguing otherwise is just justifying excuses.

I would be 100% behind someone who said there werent watching at all and thus werent paying and wouldnt be willing to pay until certain criteria are met. But watching and not agreeing to pay because they did something you didnt like I cant get behind. Cost of the item has no bearing on this discussion.
 
This has zero to do with them asking for your money in exchange for viewing the content they created. It may very well be that its overpriced and massively inflated. That doesn't mean you get to use that as an excuse to not pay for it.



Actually it is. You make the assertion that because the information is digitized it must therefore be made freely available to you and all you are doing is circumventing immoral restrictions. This is not the truth and is only a lie you tell yourself to feel better about stealing things. I am personally very much against infinite copyrights and a lot of the stuff the studios do to try to restrict content. But I have to agree here that they have a right to get paid for their services - even though I myself chose not to pay or watch their content until it comes in a format I am agreeable to (i.e. bluray).

HBO inherently creates a product they intend to sell to you. You have taken it and not reimbursed them for their services. That is theft. This is no different than if you sneak into a movie theater to watch a movie.

On the other hand if HBO were to broadcast this over the air and not charge you for the right to view it i.e. like say a TV show on CBS or ABC then I would have no problem with you downloading and sharing it with others. Why? One was made freely available to the public and the other is not.

How hard is it to understand, that in order for theft to occur, there must be some goods that are taken by the thieves. With piracy you don't take anything, you duplicate it. It's infringement on intellectual property rights at the worst.

Sneaking in to a movie theater to watch a movie is not theft either. It's trespassing, or using of a service without authorization. But at best you're stealing the air you're breathing while in there. Have you ever seen anyone charged with theft for sneaking in a game they didn't have tickets for?
 
Last I checked I were the customer. As soon as they start offering the service I'm willing to pay for I'll pay for it. You know supply and demand. And right now my demand has almost zero overlap with their supply. And it's not up to me to change. If they want me as a customer they can change what they offer. Not the other way around. I'm happy with not consuming their content if they're not willing to offer it on terms I find acceptable.

I could pirate all the games I play. But I don't, I buy every single one of them. And games are much more expensive than streaming subscriptions or blurays. So that should already give you all the answers about where lies the problem with the entertainment industry. You can sit there telling yourself that everyone who pirates movies and tv shows would do it no matter what, but it's far from the truth.
We just want to be treated fairly and want proper service. Without being treated like we're out to steal their shit and distribute it to the whole damn county for free. Not to mention the completely unrealistic hardware and software restrictions all on the altar of DRM.

Not buying their stuff is totally your prerogative, that's not what I take issue with, if you're not then going and pirating it for free because you still want it. I'm sort of confused by your post to be honest, if you're not pirating anything then great?

And I'm not going to argue the rights holders are blameless. They're not, and some of their idiotic and overly paranoid content restrictions absolutely are just asking to be broken. The lobbying of the rights holder industry is rife with bullshit and asinine laws like the DMCA. BUT, that doesn't mean any inconvenience or higher fee than you are comfortable with automatically gives someone the right to ignore the restrictions and engage in infringement.

To me it is a sliding scale. There are truly unfair laws that I'm not going to bat an eye breaking because I think they are ultimately unenforceable, for instance, telling me I can't backup a DVD I paid for because ripping it to an ISO is a violation of the DMCA's prohibition on breaking encryption? Fuck off MPAA, go pound sand. That's my DVD, I paid for it, I can back it up for my personal use so that I can continue using the product I paid for. (Analogous to when the Supreme Court held that people can record TV shows for their personal use--which rights holders went to court to stop--opening the doors for VCR's and their modern counterparts.)

But torrenting an AMC show because I don't feel like paying a couple bucks for the episode on Amazon, or torrenting a song because I can't pay 99 cents for it on iTunes or Google Music, or ripping a show because god forbid I have to give my email to another website? Sorry, that's BS.
 
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How hard is it to understand, that in order for theft to occur, there must be some goods that are taken by the thieves. With piracy you don't take anything, you duplicate it. It's infringement on intellectual property rights at the worst.

Sneaking in to a movie theater to watch a movie is not theft either. It's trespassing, or using of a service without authorization. But at best you're stealing the air you're breathing while in there. Have you ever seen anyone charged with theft for sneaking in a game they didn't have tickets for?

No theft does not need physical goods to be taken by the thieves. There are plenty of examples of theft that involve items that are not physical (i.e. money transfers). Again you're just justifying your misguided belief that because information is digitized it becomes inherently free to you. This is utter bullshit. Dont justify your actions on the format of the media. It is just plain wrong to pirate a movie or tv show that wasnt made available on broadcast and you know it. Yet you persist with the self delusion that its ok simply because "its digital". Well you know what you arent buying those bits or that DVD/BluRay when you buy it. You are buying a pereptual right to view a particular piece of content. As I said HBO is basically a service that you pay for - in return they generate content they license to you. The way you get that content varies - HBO Now is a temporary license that you have to pay to maintain. BluRays etc are one time fees that grant you the right to view it as much as you want. By not paying for anything and still copying the bits doesnt mean nothing bad happened. It means you stole the output the of service.

Sneaking into a movie theater is indeed theft so is going to a game you dont have tickets for. There are many states that consider theft of services to be larceny. For some its just a misdemeanor but for ALL it is a crime.
 
Buying video games doesnt give somone a pass for pirating movies/tv shows.
Way to completely misconstrue the point. I mentioned video games because I could pirate them just as easily as any tv show, so that shows that the problem doesn't lay with me not wanting to pay.
If you arent happy with their content, business model, or distribution etc you have a right to not purchase it.
And that's why I don't purchase it. As a protest. I could afford it, but I won't support a system I all out despise.
What you dont have is a right to take it anyway and claim some sort of exemption.
Actually I'm a special case because I live in a country where copying of video and audio recordings of copyrighted material for personal use is allowed under the law. And downloading falls under copying for personal use. It's considered the same as recording a tv show from the TV. So I'm not doing anything illegal technically.
If you watch their content you still have demand, you just refuse to give them money for it.
Oh I have demand for the content all right. But I refuse to accept their terms. Is it immoral, absolutely. If they don't give a shit about how immoral it is to treat every customer as a potential pirate then I don't give a fuck about how immoral it is to watch their shows without paying for it. And actually I have a complete cable package including HBO I just can't be bothered to watch shows on their schedule.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be treated fairly and have good service. Thats why you buy things at some places and not others. But thats not an excuse to not pay for it and still use the service. Arguing otherwise is just justifying excuses.
I don't actually use their service. I'm not using their bandwith or their servers that would constitute using the service illegally. Technically what I do is copying content that someone else recorded from their service. I don't want or even need to make excuses since it's legal under local law. I'm not going to have a guilt trip about it either.
I would be 100% behind someone who said there werent watching at all and thus werent paying and wouldnt be willing to pay until certain criteria are met. But watching and not agreeing to pay because they did something you didnt like I cant get behind.
As far as they are concerned it makes no difference what I do as long as I'm not paying. What I have been preaching over and over again for a long time is that it would be much easier for them to win us over as customers by lowering their stranglehold on customers instead of tightening their grip with newer and more invasive and restrictive DRMs. Which is at insane levels right now, demanding a single line of CPUs from a specific brand, and a single type of browser to even function. You know the harder they try to grip the more people will slip out.
 
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Actually it is. You make the assertion that because the information is digitized it must therefore be made freely available to you and all you are doing is circumventing immoral restrictions. This is not the truth and is only a lie you tell yourself to feel better about stealing things. I am personally very much against infinite copyrights and a lot of the stuff the studios do to try to restrict content. But I have to agree here that they have a right to get paid for their services - even though I myself chose not to pay or watch their content until it comes in a format I am agreeable to (i.e. bluray).

WTF are you talking about?

The claim was that is was legally theft.
Sounds like a whole lot of self justification for what is still technically, and legally theft.

It isn't.

The infraction is copyright infringement, not theft. That is a fact.

Also copyright infringement for downloading copyright material without permission is a civil offense.

Theft is a criminal offense.

In Legal terms, they are COMPLETELY different things.
 
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How hard is it to understand, that in order for theft to occur, there must be some goods that are taken by the thieves. With piracy you don't take anything, you duplicate it. It's infringement on intellectual property rights at the worst.

But you gain something - the experience of the movie/music/whatever you are stealing. You take that experience, that you wouldn't have otherwise known about, by theft. By stealing the media, you are admitting it had enough value for you to wish to experience what others had created.
 
Way to completely misconstrue the point. I mentioned video games because I could pirate them just as easily as any tv show, so that shows that the problem doesn't lay with me not wanting to pay.

And that's why I don't purchase it. As a protest. I could afford it, but I won't support a system I all out despise.

Actually I'm a special case because I live in a country where copying of video and audio recordings of copyrighted material for personal use is allowed under the law. And downloading falls under copying for personal use. It's considered the same as recording a tv show from the TV. So I'm not doing anything illegal technically.

Oh I have demand for the content all right. But I refuse to accept their terms. Is it immoral, absolutely. If they don't give a shit about how immoral it is to treat every customer as a potential pirate then I don't give a fuck about how immoral it is to watch their shows without paying for it. And actually I have a complete cable package including HBO I just can't be bothered to watch shows on their schedule.

I don't actually use their service. I'm not using their bandwith or their servers that would constitute using the service illegally. Technically what I do is copying content that someone else recorded from their service. I don't want or even need to make excuses since it's legal under local law. I'm not going to have a guilt trip about it either.

As far as they are concerned it makes no difference what I do as long as I'm not paying. What I have been preaching over and over again for a long time is that it would be much easier for them to win us over as customers by lowering their stranglehold on customers instead of tightening their grip with newer and more invasive and restrictive DRMs. Which is at insane levels right now, demanding a single line of CPUs from a specific brand, and a single type of browser to even function. You know the harder they try to grip the more people will slip out.

The majority of my "you" in that post was not directed at you personally but at the broader audience. Which is why I put "someone" in part of the earlier statement. I should have been clearer on that point. I do find it interesting that you stated "not doing anything illegal technically"

WTF are you talking about?

The claim was that is was legally theft.


It isn't.

The infraction is copyright infringement, not theft. That is a fact.

Also copyright infringement for downloading copyright material without permission is a civil offense.

Theft is a criminal offense.

In Legal terms, they are COMPLETELY different things.

Ok clearly you dont understand the law so lets drag it out and review it.

Title 17 Chapter 5, 506. Criminal offenses

(a) Criminal Infringement.—


(1) In general.—Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed—

(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;

(B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000; or

(C) by the distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution, by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public, if such person knew or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution.


So you clearly arent doing it for (A) unless you are and arent admitting it to us. But you are certainly guilty of C and most likely B as well.

This is a FEDERAL crime.

 
Ok clearly you dont understand the law so lets drag it out and review it.

No it is just you behaving in a disingenuous manner.

I said if you download copyright material with permission it is a civil offense. And it is.

It is only criminal infringement if you are doing it for commercial/financial gain.

Downloading a TV show to watch it, is Civil copyright infringement.
Selling copies of a TV show, is Criminal copyright infringement.

Neither is Theft.
 
So I ask again, if your boss doesn't give you a paycheck next Friday then you'd be ok with that, because he has not stolen anything physical from you?

Under current laws that's comparing apples to oranges. That's your boss not piracy. I don't think that falls under the category of theft anyway. Maybe larsony? I admit I'm no lawyer. Regardless, that's a matter for the labor board.

So the deciding factor is has anyone lost money? So far what information we have through studies and simple profit reports of these media companies the answer is no or the amount lost is insignificant. If anything there is evidence that piracy can help profits. Gets your work out there like nothing other. If they can prove that profits have been negativity impacted I'm all for people getting sued. So far that hasn't happened.

In most cases the individual simply wants to fairly decide if the product in question is worth his/her hard earned money.

With respect to PC games, I miss the days when demos were everywhere. Gave me that chance to decide. Nobody likes spending $80 on junk.



That's only true for artists you've never heard. What about people pirating Justin Bieber and Britney Spears? They already know what they're getting so whats the excuse?

That is not true at all. Quite often an artist changes their style or even quality of work goes down. Weather it's the artists choice or pressure from record label is irrelevant.

I'd like to know if I'm buying a good album or if its junk with one good single song. And I know we have all been there.

Solution could be what some labels do: allow you to listen to the entire album through their website. No reason to pirate now.

Some bands give their music away (nine inch nails comes to mind) and are doing quite well thank you. Again, public exposure is paramount.

By your above statement, I loved early games from blizzard. Diablo 1, 2 and starcraft. In that case I must already know what I'm getting with their newer work. And yet I felt ripped off by Diablo 3, warcraft 3 and heart of the swarm.

I can definitely agree with that. I think the entertainment industry could do something a huge favor by just looking at how people consume media and then just delivering it in that format. Netflix is catching on, just lacking the content to really push them into the premier viewing medium. There have already been talks about streaming AAA movies Day 1 for like $50 since that's close to what you'd pay anyway to go to a theater and I'd be down with that. Watch Logan or Ghost in the Shell at home on release day for example. Pause when you want, get a beer when you want, a BJ when you want, etc.

That's my dream...I'd only argue that big media will not change their obsolete business model until they are forced to. If that means piracy, so be it. Certainly seems to be making someone listen at least.

I know I'd pay hansomly for Netflix with better content - i.e. current stuff!
 
No it is just you behaving in a disingenuous manner.

I said if you download copyright material with permission it is a civil offense. And it is.

It is only criminal infringement if you are doing it for commercial/financial gain.

Downloading a TV show to watch it, is Civil copyright infringement.
Selling copies of a TV show, is Criminal copyright infringement.

Neither is Theft.

I guess you cant read either because the law clearly spelled out for profit on your part is not required for it to be a crime.

But really this is just a distraction from the point that you are taking someones work without compensating them for it. Call it what you will but it wont change the fact that you just took someones hard work and said its free to you because "reasons". The fact that its just something you copy is meaningless in this.

You still harmed said person(s) by not compensating them.
 
And I'm not going to argue the rights holders are blameless. They're not, and some of their idiotic and overly paranoid content restrictions absolutely are just asking to be broken. The lobbying of the rights holder industry is rife with bullshit and asinine laws like the DMCA. BUT, that doesn't mean any inconvenience or higher fee than you are comfortable with automatically gives someone the right to ignore the restrictions and engage in infringement.

No, it does not give us the right. It gives us the cause. :D
 
I guess you cant read either because the law clearly spelled out for profit on your part is not required for it to be a crime.

But really this is just a distraction from the point that you are taking someones work without compensating them for it. Call it what you will but it wont change the fact that you just took someones hard work and said its free to you because "reasons". The fact that its just something you copy is meaningless in this.

You still harmed said person(s) by not compensating them.

Again, more disingenuous behavior. The truth is that simple downloading is treated as a civil matter, it takes some aggravating circumstance to elevate it to a criminal case.

Either way, it is not legally theft as was originally claimed.
 
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