New Processors Are Now Blocked from Receiving Updates on Old Windows

Megalith

Megalith

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The update block for Intel Kaby Lake and AMD Ryzen systems is now in effect: those who are using a “processor designed for the latest version of Windows” and attempt to get the latest patches via Windows Update on an older OS will be met with an unimaginative, blinding dialog panel that insists your hardware is not supported. The author believes that Microsoft’s decision may be justified for Windows 7, but not for 8.1, as that OS is still in its mainstream support period.

We knew Microsoft was planning to block installation of Windows 7 and 8.1 updates on systems with Intel 7th Generation Core processors (more memorably known as Kaby Lake) and AMD Ryzen systems; we just weren't sure when. Now, the answer appears to be "this month." Users of new processors running old versions of Windows are reporting that their updates are being blocked. The block means that systems using these processors are no longer receiving security updates. The new policy was announced in January of last year and revised slightly a couple of months later: Kaby Lake and Ryzen processors, and all new processors on an ongoing basis, would only be supported in Windows 10. Windows 7 and 8.1 would continue to support older processors, but their chip compatibility was frozen.
 
That's like reading a menu listed with only three dishes to eat in an expensive 5 star restaurant which used to have over 30 to pick from just months ago.
 
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Madoc said:
So, now *we* don't determine what CPU/OS combination to use on our rigs, Microsoft does. If Microsoft doesn't approve of our choice, they will block us from even attempting it.

Nice.
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It also goes to show just how much incentive there exists to push Windows 10 out and phase out the older OSs.
 
I agree with Mega, it's reasonable to block 7 updates as it's well past it's mainstream support period. But 8.1 has a few years left there. In any case, Microsoft should just warn people, "Hey not supported" and whatever issues arise from it are totally on the user to deal with. As others have pointed out, this is probably such a small population it's not work the negative PR.
 
Reimu said:
It also goes to show just how much incentive there exists to push Windows 10 out and phase out the older OSs.
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Nothing new there though. Microsoft wanted to phase out XP particularly when 7 became available and the same kind of complaints ensued.
 
People can try uninstalling KB4012218 to see if doing so re-enables their ability to get Win 7 / 8 updates on newer CPUs. The description for KB4012218 is "Enabled detection of processor generation and hardware support when PC tries to scan or download updates through Windows Update."

Also, people with newer CPUs can still get Win 7 / 8 updates through WSUS.
 
I'll say it again, every OS sucks and this will prevent humanity from realizing the potential of the true power of the machines, thus preventing the robot apocalypse. When your death-bot requires a 9.99 day 1 DLC to kill and auto patches itself with the latest ads and it's kill signal is blocked by telemetry data, you'll thank MS for saving the future from ourselves.
 
heatlesssun said:
I agree with Mega, it's reasonable to block 7 updates as it's well past it's mainstream support period. But 8.1 has a few years left there. In any case, Microsoft should just warn people, "Hey not supported" and whatever issues arise from it are totally on the user to deal with. As others have pointed out, this is probably such a small population it's not work the negative PR.
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"Such a small population"? You do realize Windows 8.1 is still millions upon millions of PC's.

There's absolutely zero excuse for artificially blocking even security updates from Windows 8.1 which is still in mainstream support for years to come. I guess "support" now means whatever the marketing department feels like it means. But then I'd expect nothing less from the brain surgeon that brought us Upgradegate and the Red-X fiasco that tricked people into "flocking to Windows 10".

this-man-will-now-control-microsofts-billion-dollar-ad-budget.jpg
 
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DPI said:
"Such a small population"? You do realize Windows 8.1 is still millions upon millions of PC's.
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A small population trying to run or caring about running an obsolete OS on the latest and greatest hardware.
 
oh noes.

good thing i keep a full install image with all the updates that matter.

let's be honest, windows update as of late hasn't meant shit on windows 7.
 
Why would Microsoft waste time and money on blocking such a small population?
 
DPI said:
"Such a small population"? You do realize Windows 8.1 is still millions upon millions of PC's.

There's absolutely zero excuse for artificially blocking even security updates from Windows 8.1 which is still in mainstream support for years to come. I guess "support" no longer means what its supposed to mean.

But then I'd expect nothing less from the brain surgeon that brought us Upgrade-gate and the Red-X fiasco that tricked people into "flocking to Windows 10".
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Sure.. but 8.1 updates aren't blocked on the millions of pc's, they are blocked for the guy who decided to build a ryzen or kaby lake system with windows 8.1. Probably a statistically insignificant number. But as 8.1 is supposed to be in mainstream support that's still not acceptable. At a minimum they should give all these people windows 10 keys.

It's understandable to not support the processors for windows 7 though. I don't think they should block updates, simply putting a warning on the desktop saying your processor is unsupported and microsoft will not offer any support/warranty is probably sufficient.
 
bigdogchris said:
I completely agree that 8.1 should still be supported. I understand blocking 7.

Microsoft is wrong for blocking an OS that is still under active support.
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There is no understanding for blocking 7 either. As long as they release updates for it, let me decide what I'm installing it on. They should allow me to install it on whatever I want even a slab of wood.
 
heatlesssun said:
A small population trying to run or caring about running an obsolete OS on the latest and greatest hardware.
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You either choose an OS that Ms wishes would die. Or you choose an OS with a shit UI, or you choose an OS that tries to fuck you over at every turn.. At least there is still broadwell-e .Unless they decide to block that too.

This is nothing but extortion tactics.
 
andrewaggb said:
Sure.. but 8.1 updates aren't blocked on the millions of pc's, they are blocked for the guy who decided to build a ryzen or kaby lake system with windows 8.1. Probably a statistically insignificant number. But as 8.1 is supposed to be in mainstream support that's still not acceptable. At a minimum they should give all these people windows 10 keys.

It's understandable to not support the processors for windows 7 though. I don't think they should block updates, simply putting a warning on the desktop saying your processor is unsupported and microsoft will not offer any support/warranty is probably sufficient.
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Except Windows 7 is still within extended support. Blocking even security updates is pretty shitty.

If they want people on Windows 10 so bad, maybe they should have actually built a proper successor to Windows 7, and incentivized it with actual useful new features, rather than poisoning it with a bunch of consumer-hostile gotcha policies, user tracking and data collection.
 
ChoGGi said:
Why would Microsoft waste time and money on blocking such a small population?
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Microsoft likes doing dumb sh*t for no discernible reason. Like, let's see what would happen if we deleted the start button. Or, let's make Outlook's rendering engine add a bunch of useless mso- CSS tags to every email, so as to f*ck up the formatting and make emails much larger and slower.
 
/me looks up from ordering a Ryzen5 setup and see's linux is fine
 
naib said:
/me looks up from ordering a Ryzen5 setup and see's linux is fine
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You need the 4.10 kernel for official Ryzen support. Older kernels weren't so great. So yeah, there are technical issues here even for Linux.
 
heatlesssun said:
You need the 4.10 kernel for official Ryzen support. Older kernels weren't so great. So yeah, there are technical issues here even for Linux.
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and? I am a gentoo user... Already using 4.10 (4.10.8 to be precise).

Technically speaking I would need GCC-6.3 to be fully Ryzen ready but SHOCK HORROR, gentoo has that as well
 
heatlesssun said:
A small population trying to run or caring about running an obsolete OS on the latest and greatest hardware.
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Windows 8.1 isn't obsolete - it's still within mainstream support. And from a technical perspective, if Windows 8.1 is obsolete then so is 10, since 10 is just a rebranded 8.2 with WDDM 2.0, app bloat and telemetry slapped on top. Under the hood is practically identical. A lot changed from 7 -> 8, but really not much changed between 8 -> 10.
 
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I'm not an Apple apologist. I have a few of their products, and am happy with the ones I do have, but I have to say that Microsoft is officially WORSE than Apple these days. If I could jump completely away from Windows I would at this point. However, I can't. I still have PCB layout software that's Windows only, and many games that won't run on other OSes properly. I'm quite happy to run Linux, have off and on for years. I just can't run it for two of my main uses for PCs. (games and circuit design)
 
Man, the NSA must be putting some crazy pressure on MS to have everyone in w10.

What a bullshit move from MS.
 
andrewaggb said:
Sure.. but 8.1 updates aren't blocked on the millions of pc's, they are blocked for the guy who decided to build a ryzen or kaby lake system with windows 8.1. Probably a statistically insignificant number. But as 8.1 is supposed to be in mainstream support that's still not acceptable. At a minimum they should give all these people windows 10 keys.

It's understandable to not support the processors for windows 7 though. I don't think they should block updates, simply putting a warning on the desktop saying your processor is unsupported and microsoft will not offer any support/warranty is probably sufficient.
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Its not understandable when support hasnt ended.
Unless you want to redefine that support means no support.

Also people who upgrade hardware before support for Window 8.1 ends will fall foul, its not just about those that have already upgraded.
MS deserve their reputation.
 
J3RK said:
I'm not an Apple apologist. I have a few of their products, and am happy with the ones I do have, but I have to say that Microsoft is officially WORSE than Apple these days. If I could jump completely away from Windows I would at this point. However, I can't. I still have PCB layout software that's Windows only, and many games that won't run on other OSes properly. I'm quite happy to run Linux, have off and on for years. I just can't run it for two of my main uses for PCs. (games on circuit design)
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professional PCB layout or hobbyist? I converted to KiCAD quite some time ago. FRom a professional point of view Mentor has linux & since that is what i need to use professionally it helps :)
 
naib said:
professional PCB layout or hobbyist? I converted to KiCAD quite some time ago. FRom a professional point of view Mentor has linux & since that is what i need to use professionally it helps :)
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Right in between actually. It's a hobby, but I also sell the things that I make (DIY PCBs, full custom systems, etc. (analog circuits / modular synthesizers)) I've thought about running KiCAD actually. I'm using Proteus right now though, and it's very convenient. I keep seeing things that make me think KiCAD might be the way to go though eventually. I like the mechanical layer stuff I just heard about recently for example. I may eventually make the jump, but I've been in "high output" mode lately, and spending every spare minute I've had on a new set of designs. When I hit a lull, it might be time to start learning it.
 
DPI said:
Windows 8.1 isn't obsolete - it's still within mainstream support. And from a technical perspective, if Windows 8.1 is obsolete then so is 10, since 10 is just a rebranded 8.2 with WDDM 2.0, app bloat and telemetry slapped on top. Under the hood is practically identical. A lot changed from 7 -> 8, but really not much changed between 8 -> 10.
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Obsolete as in no longer the current major version and mainstream support ends this January. All I was saying that the there's just not a lot of people compared to the size of the Windows user base that's going to put an non-current version of Windows on the latest and greatest hardware, not in the consumer market.
 
I see this as a benefit. know ican be sure MS is not tampering or reseting my system settings like in win10.. you know if i had any modern cpu *sigh*
 
Another MS decision that effects a stupid small subset of users. Its not like they have an issue with OEMs shipping win 7 or 8 systems. So the only group this effects is a chunk of the DIY crowd who is already at least partially MS hostile.

A group who just happen to have a sizably disproportionate influence over a number of average users.

I mean a lot of us have been telling out older relatives to just buy a chrome book, or apple product for a long while. No this decision won't effect those relative types of course. Still I am really struggling to understand MS's logic. Take a small group of users who is already prone to bad mouth you and be listened to... poke them in the eye to earn just a little bit more profit, perhaps more profit anyway cause now you have to assume they had to write the block code, and are going to have to write new block code to keep for workarounds people find. MS's choices are sometimes really hard to understand never mind justify.

Well for myself... I have always kept a windows drive for games. After win 10 annoyed me I went back to 7 and intended to stay their forever. Its now clear if I build a new Ryzen later this year which I will be, it will be my first 100% Linux system and I guess if I really run into any games I just must have I will be buying a PS4. lol
 
heatlesssun said:
A small population trying to run or caring about running an obsolete OS on the latest and greatest hardware.
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There is nothing remotely compelling about Windows 10. Windows 7 runs just fine on Ryzen systems (better than 10 apparently!). This is completely arbitrary forced obsolescence to push people to an inferior product.
 
ChadD said:
MS's choices are sometimes really hard to understand never mind justify.
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Underneath all of though the technical reasons are clear, Windows 7 and 8.1 weren't designed to fully support these processors and were never going to be retrofitted to do so. So it's totally up to the end user to deal with whatever issues may arise. That said, if people want to do it then let them, it's bad PR for a small group.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
There is nothing remotely compelling about Windows 10. Windows 7 runs just fine on Ryzen systems (better than 10 apparently!). This is completely arbitrary forced obsolescence to push people to an inferior product.
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It's not forced obsolesce, Windows 7 and 8.1 would need to be retrofitted to be fully compatible with CPUs that didn't exist when those OSes were developed. And where's the numbers showing Ryzen overall working better on Windows 7 than 10?
 
Ubuntu, version 17.04 codenamed Zesty Zapus is out today. "The release ships with Linux Kernel 4.10, which has support for AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake systems."

So that might be something people might check out.

While I am totally moved over to Windows 10, that doesn't mean I think this blocking crap is right. I am not shocked in the least though that Microsoft would pull shenanigans like this. I wonder if they spend any time at all considering the flip side to doing this crap.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
Ubuntu, version 17.04 codenamed Zesty Zapus is out today. "The release ships with Linux Kernel 4.10, which has support for AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake systems."
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This is where I think people get faked outraged. So even on Linux, only the latest kernel is up to date to properly support the latest CPUs. But Microsoft is creating false obsolesce with Windows 7 and 8.1? Sometimes Microsoft bashers over do it. Fine don't block the updates, but the bottom line is that 7 and 8.1 aren't truly compatible with these new CPUS, just like over versions of Linux, or at least older versions of the kernel.
 
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