Windows 10 Will Push Some Updates over Limited Data Plans

[BulletDust]

Explain to me why OEM's are still installing it on their systems when the alternative is just as good? They could even offer a free version of Office in either OpenOffice or LibreOffice. Yet, they aren't. Explain.

3% of the market yelling the loudest hasn't even changed companies, where their entire goal is the bottom line. Even free hasn't piqued their interest.

Dell is installing Ubuntu on their developer series of laptops and are making a fortune out of it.

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/01/dell-talk-linux-laptops-distros-sales

The difference is Microsoft by nature of it's propitiatory standing has a marketing department offering manufacturers installation bonuses for every device sold with Windows, Linux on the other hand doesn't rely on a marketing department at all.

The interesting thing about .docx is that it's an open ISO standard, the concept of a standard is to ensure compatibility, yet for some obscure reason MS Office is the one product that struggles with .docx compatibility, you can swap documents between Libre Office and WPS Office with no issues whatsoever. That doesn't make MS Office the better product, it makes MS Office the better product via clever marketing. Once again, popularity is no measurement of better.

 

[heatlesssun]

A lot has changed, this is all simply untrue.

I've been following this debate for nearly two decades. What's fascinating about it to me is how little things have changed concerning a tech issue.

Windows growth has everything to do with the fact it's installed on literally every PC bought and once again - Popularity is not any measurement of best.

But popularity is what drives 3rd party efforts.

 

[heatlesssun]

Dell is installing Ubuntu on their developer series of laptops and are making a fortune out of it.

Tens of millions of dollars in sales over how many years? Microsoft is selling a billion a quarter in Surface devices now and Microsoft bashers call that chump change.

 

[auntjemima]

Tens of millions of dollars in sales over how many years? Microsoft is selling a billion a quarter in Surface devices now and Microsoft bashers call that chump change.

The Surface vs iPad debate that was mentioned once of twice in here and no one picked up on (thank god) was comical. They aren't even marketed towards the same people, or for the same tasks. It is like comparing Audi sales to motorbike sales, sure both can drive you around, but the markets are very different.

 

[BulletDust]

I've been following this debate for nearly two decades. What's fascinating about it to me is how little things have changed concerning a tech issue.

So have I and I use Linux, you do not, you are promoting an opinion that's worthless as you have no experience with desktop Linux.

But popularity is what drives 3rd party efforts.

And in the last two years Linux popularity has doubled.

Tens of millions of dollars in sales over how many years? Microsoft is selling a billion a quarter in Surface devices now and Microsoft bashers call that chump change.

A billion a quarter? I don't think so, more like $223 million with the backing of an aggressive marketing department. Linux has no marketing department and yet it's still growing and Windows 10 is largely disliked in enthusiast circles.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/26/microsofts-nadella-says-surface-sales-growing.html

 

[auntjemima]

The interesting thing about .docx is that it's an open ISO standard, the concept of a standard is to ensure compatibility, yet for some obscure reason MS Office is the one product that struggles with .docx compatibility, you can swap documents between Libre Office and WPS Office with no issues whatsoever. That doesn't make MS Office the better product, it makes MS Office the better product via clever marketing. Once again, popularity is no measurement of better.

Microsoft always wants to have their products only work with their own, they always have. I am not condoning it, as its pretty annoying. That said, how is this even relevant to the points I made? Free OS and free Office, and they still install MS Office.

I read about Dell offering ubuntu and that is awesome. Considering they are one of the biggest laptop producers, this is good news for the Linux front.

 

[BulletDust]

Anyway, I have work to do and have no respect for heatlesssun whatsoever and am not willing to be drawn into a debate that we already argued and he lost miserably, so good day all.

 

[tetris42]

A lot has changed, this is all simply untrue.

Windows growth has everything to do with the fact it's installed on literally every PC bought and once again - Popularity is not any measurement of best.

I've been following this debate and have wanted to Windows for a long time now too. Here's what's changed as far as I'm concerned:

-Linux is easy enough now for basic things, grandma can use it. If anything it's an easier experience than Windows for the basics
-Linux has functional software for lots of things needed by general users. Web stuff, multimedia stuff, office stuff, etc.
-Video editing on Linux is actually possible now.
-Gaming is at least now not a complete joke and is good enough for some people who only play a few things. It has a LONG way to go to bring over avid gamers however.
-Straying off the beaten path and needing more advanced software with specialized functions that exist in Windows or specific system functionality still ranges from pain in the ass to impossible.
-The mentality of the Linux community seems the same as it was 20 years ago.

Some things that still need to change for me to switch:
-Run almost all my games. A delay in support is okay, but titles that still can't run after 10+ years is depressing.
-NEVER having to touch the commandline. I had enough of that in the DOS days. I like being able to do everything in a couple mouse clicks.

 

[auntjemima]

Anyway, I have work to do and have no respect for heatlesssun whatsoever and am not willing to be drawn into a debate that we already argued and he lost miserably, so good day all.

I am going to PM you. I kinda want to continue this.

 

[auntjemima]

-NEVER having to touch the commandline. I had enough of that in the DOS days. I like being able to do everything in a couple mouse clicks.

You better relax, the locals here insist you never have to open it.

 

[heatlesssun]

So have I and I use Linux, you do not, you are promoting an opinion that's worthless as you have no experience with desktop Linux.

You're Linux experience doesn't all of sudden make the VERY long list of things I use that aren't Linux compatible all of sudden Linux compatible.

 

[ChadD]

This "Linux has been growing like crazy" speech is the same thing that was being said in 2000. Now 17 years later and it's exponentially better and yet a 1 or 2% gain is all we have seen. That's pretty deplorable for almost two decades.

I remember when Microsoft had that anti-trust suit for forcing OEM's to install Windows or lose out. When they lost that I recall Linux forums blowing up with people claiming Linux was about to take over now that OEM's had a choice. Here we are 10+ years later and nothing.

Clearly Windows isn't as bad as it is made out to be. Even OEM's aren't willing to install a FREE OS and avoid the obvious fees. It's pretty telling.

A lot of pro-desktop Linux folks act as though this "Windows vs. Linux" debate is new or has changed fundamentally since those days. Little has changed fundamentally. Windows is still that thing that's always had a vocal group of detractors and sure much of that criticism has been warranted. But desktop Linux on the desktop has never been able to really capitalize on the weaknesses of Windows because of its own weaknesses the Linux desktop community seems to be oblivious to. "Linux gaming didn't exist 5 years ago and has grown exponentially. It doesn't matter that Windows gaming has grown 5 times exponentially." We sure, it doesn't matter if you're not already using Windows.

Its called marketing. The average computer buyer has likely never heard of Linux. To most consumers Windows = PC. There is no debate there. OEMs stick with MS for a bunch of reasons not the least of which is the payback they have to deal with if they don't licence windows. MS does what it needs to to protect its shipped with every new PC status. They have landed in court more then once for such behaviour all over the world. So sure if I was an OEM just ship with windows on it... rattle their cage every now and then and MS will pretty much give you the licence anyway. (large OEMS pay almost nothing to licence windows)

Thing is in the last 5-10 years more and more peoples primary OS isn't windows. It is however LInux. I'm sorry Linux has already won. Yes I"m talking about Android... now the MS employees are going to pipe up that Android isn't Linux. Well accept that it is. For years we have heard no one wants Linux cause there isn't one massive company behind it supporting everything. Well now there is, that would be Google. Android is the worlds #1 OS. The Android store is the worlds largest game market. They haven't pushed into the desktop space and AAA games as of yet... but we all (including MS) know that is coming. Things like the switch are the soft open... and over the next few years AAA gaming is going to be fully ready to make the jump to Android or the Chrome/Android mashup google drops for higher end devices and desktops. When that does happen in the few years I think its safe to say decisions like the forced updates, Ads and a bunch of other choices that annoy the windows base are going to come back and bite them square in the back side. Cause for power users it will be easy enough to install a flavor of Linux instead of Chromdroid.

MS has done a poor job of future casting... it cost them the smart phone market which they had years of a head start on. Tablets as well... MS was first to that market, but they pulled out when others went full in. Sure they are selling some surfaces right now but they are still #3 in terms of sales, and it sounds like in typical MS fashion they are about to abandon that line releasing a new cheaper version that is nothing but a touch screen netbook.

Every Time MS does something that I like... they go and take a huge step backwards somewhere else. I want to not hate MS I really do. When they started open sourcing a bunch of stuff... and including Linux subsystems for System Admins. I thought good perhaps the new people at MS will get them to start thinking right and drive some innovation for once. That may still well be the case, MS is a huge machine with lots of different parts and I'm sure they aren't all on the page all the time. Still it seems like MS really doesn't want to be liked at the end of the day.

 

[ChadD]

Microsoft always wants to have their products only work with their own, they always have. I am not condoning it, as its pretty annoying. That said, how is this even relevant to the points I made? Free OS and free Office, and they still install MS Office.

I read about Dell offering ubuntu and that is awesome. Considering they are one of the biggest laptop producers, this is good news for the Linux front.

I have converted plenty of offices away from MS products. Its what I do for $. The biggest issue with switching offices to Libre or other solutions is file formats. Its not that MS office is a better product or loved more in anyway. It mostly comes down to MS products don't conform to standards and companies often have to spend $ to convert older documents to an actual open standard. I converted one office that had 1000s of older documents that didn't always open properly with out MS office. So in their switch plan we paid a couple university students to sit their for a few weeks converting documents and adjusting them to be resaved. That company switched cause there was still value in the switch. Made a couple University kids a nice bit of extra change, everyone wins. lol

Not that I have much to add... but ya Dell has been offering Ubuntu for quite a few years now. The last few years though their Developer series of laptops have become very popular. I have some younger family doing the university thing right now and I know from being there a couple times you see lots of them around campus where as a few years back you may have seen a lot of Apples instead.

 

[heatlesssun]

Thing is in the last 5-10 years more and more peoples primary OS isn't windows. It is however LInux. I'm sorry Linux has already won. Yes I"m talking about Android... now the MS employees are going to pipe up that Android isn't Linux.

How many Windows 10 critics are constantly stating that their PC isn't a phone?

 

[ChadD]

I've been following this debate and have wanted to Windows for a long time now too. Here's what's changed as far as I'm concerned:

-Linux is easy enough now for basic things, grandma can use it. If anything it's an easier experience than Windows for the basics
-Linux has functional software for lots of things needed by general users. Web stuff, multimedia stuff, office stuff, etc.
-Video editing on Linux is actually possible now.
-Gaming is at least now not a complete joke and is good enough for some people who only play a few things. It has a LONG way to go to bring over avid gamers however.
-Straying off the beaten path and needing more advanced software with specialized functions that exist in Windows or specific system functionality still ranges from pain in the ass to impossible.
-The mentality of the Linux community seems the same as it was 20 years ago.

Some things that still need to change for me to switch:
-Run almost all my games. A delay in support is okay, but titles that still can't run after 10+ years is depressing.
-NEVER having to touch the commandline. I had enough of that in the DOS days. I like being able to do everything in a couple mouse clicks.

I mostly agree with your points. I switch companies and to be honest in a lot of ways that is easier the switching power users and for sure gamers. Not many companies need a lot of the things people claim they can only do on windows... and even those that really do have those. Mixed setups still work well. (if windows pros are being honest they have seen "full" MS companies that are still running Linux servers... hell that describes MS themselves right now).

When it comes to the Linux community... your right and wrong. That hardcore Linux stereotype is still out there can't deny it. There are still I believe many more "helpful" users in the community then there ever has been and that grows. Still I can't tell you that running into one of the old guard isn't going to happen at some point. lol

Games are the biggest down side for power user types right now and likely for a good while. We have argued that up and down in the H forums. Linux gaming is good enough for many of us... and yet sure its still not perfect right now. Its getting better though... and supporting things like Linux Steam imo is something we should all be doing even if we still have a Win 7 partition for the majority of our gaming. I mostly stay in Linux myself and game there as much as I can... but sure I have a Win7 Drive I use for nothing at all but gaming.

CommandLine... 2 things. 1) no you don't have to touch the command line if your doing basic stuff. 2) its not nearly as scary as some make it out to be. Yes you will have to learn something new... but its not hard or complicated. If your a power user I believe you sort of owe it to yourself to learn the basics of the Linux command line. Its not like there is really a lot to learn... most power user types get a pretty good handle on it after a few weeks. Still it is a powerful tool and you will likely still be learning new things for years. That isn't a bad thing as I see it.

 

[ChadD]

How many Windows 10 critics are constantly stating that their PC isn't a phone?

lol good point. Ok you made me laugh heatle you win.

Seriously though I think you know what I'm saying. Desktops are not the tech driver they once where. Pretty much all the R&D dollars and all the innovation right now is aimed at Android powered devices. Chorme is nothing more then a toe in the water a test run... for what we all know is coming. When the day comes that they go after MS bread and butter MS it seems isn't even going to see it coming. Google has been pushing MS out of everything that matters for a few years now. Average people install their browser instead of using IE and Edge... average people have a better handle on Android then windows these days. Chromdroid is coming and MS keeps poking their devote desktop users.

 

[BulletDust]

Linux users are the way they are due to misinformed Windows users with little to no experience forcing an opinion regarding the OS in question, that's something that hasn't changed in 10 years.

As an OS, Linux has evolved greatly in the last 3 years to the point where it is very much a full blown and polished desktop experience. You 'll never experience the issues faced under Windows under Linux as the second someone tries to lock users out of their own PC someone will fork the package, that's the un disputable beauty of open source development.

 

[BulletDust]

Auntjemima, reply sent my friend.

 

[heatlesssun]

Games are the biggest down side for power user types right now and likely for a good while. We have argued that up and down in the H forums. Linux gaming is good enough for many of us... and yet sure its still not perfect right now. Its getting better though... and supporting things like Linux Steam imo is something we should all be doing even if we still have a Win 7 partition for the majority of our gaming. I mostly stay in Linux myself and game there as much as I can... but sure I have a Win7 Drive I use for nothing at all but gaming.

That's great except why does one need a separate OS to run the games they already have working fine under Windows? The answer is they don't. For gamers, there needs be a reason around GAMING that would motivate gamers to use Linux for gaming. I can't be some political statement where most games don't work Linux and often many that do don't run as well under Linux.

 

[BulletDust]

That's great except why does one need a separate OS to run the games they already have working fine under Windows? The answer is they don't. For gamers, there needs be a reason around GAMING that would motivate gamers to use Linux for gaming. I can't be some political statement where most games don't work Linux and often many that do don't run as well under Linux.

You act like gamers are stupid, they are not.

I see a great many disgruntled long term Windows users on these very forums switching to Linux due to issues with Windows itself, I have no doubt many of these users could be classed as gamers. The fact that they can hold onto at least some of their game catalogue under Linux is just making their difficult decision easier.

 

[heatlesssun]

Linux users are the way they are due to misinformed Windows users with little to no experience forcing an opinion regarding the OS in question, that's something that hasn't changed in 10 years.

I know well what Linux does and doesn't support for what I use PCs for. Anyone can go here and get a run down of Linux compatibility of their Steam library: https://steamdb.info/. Just about any of the alternative apps are Windows compatible, easy enough to install and test them side by side with my primary apps. I've kept on eye out on Steam VR for Linux as well. I think many pro-desktop Linux folks don't realize how much a lot of non-desktop Linux users keep up with Linux and what it's support is like for at least the things that are of interest to them.

 

[heatlesssun]

I see a great many disgruntled long term Windows users on these very forums switching to Linux due to issues with Windows itself, I have no doubt many of these users could be classed as gamers. The fact that they can hold onto at least some of their game catalogue under Linux is just making their difficult decision easier.

And again, what does this have to do with gaming? Sure, there are Windows haters that switch to Linux. I bet EVERYONE of them that game would love to see the level of gaming support Windows has on Linux.

 

[BulletDust]

I know well what Linux does and doesn't support for what I use PCs for. Anyone can go here and get a run down of Linux compatibility of their Steam library: https://steamdb.info/. Just about any of the alternative apps are Windows compatible, easy enough to install and test them side by side with my primary apps. I've kept on eye out on Steam VR for Linux as well. I think many pro-desktop Linux folks don't realize how much a lot of non-desktop Linux users keep up with Linux and what it's support is like for at least the things that are of interest to them.

Just to clarify, this isn't all about you, you aren't that special. In the past I have specifically stated that yourself switching to Linux would result in complete failure and I in no way recommend it.

However, due to the fact that you do not represent every [H] forum user, there are a great many people able to switch to Linux and, once again, the fact that they can hang onto at least part of their gaming catalogue under Linux is simply making a difficult decision easier.

You've got to stop focusing everything on yourself, don't flatter yourself, you're just a number.

And again, what does this have to do with gaming? Sure, there are Windows haters that switch to Linux. I bet EVERYONE of them that game would love to see the level of gaming support Windows has on Linux.

Of course, we've been over this. Increased adoption results in increased support. Sitting back and claiming that I'll switch to Linux when support equals Windows is like the non union employee sitting back claiming that unions are rubbish and refusing to pay union fees, all the while being only too happy to cop the pay rise as a result of union negotiation on behalf of those that pay for the privilege. If you're incapable of actively supporting Linux by adopting the OS in some way there's no reason why you cannot support those that do choose to switch to Linux as they're the ones that are going to increase support to a standard you deem to be acceptable. <-- FULL STOP, this is a point that's not arguable.

 

[heatlesssun]

Just to clarify, this isn't all about you, you aren't that special.

Same applies to you as well. And you don't really play games much by what you've said many times.

If you're incapable of actively supporting Linux by adopting the OS in some way there's no reason why you cannot support those that do choose to switch to Linux as they're the ones that are going to increase support to a standard you deem to be acceptable. <-- FULL STOP, this is a point that's not arguable.

If people want to use Linux, that's their choice. But like Windows it doesn't have to be everyone's. And singing the praises of desktop Linux gaming in it's current state is nothing but being a fanboy. If it's suitable for those that want to use it, that's fine. But claiming how wonderful it is when it's still getting a minority of new games and often months late on many games and often with performance issues relative to Linux. People can use whatever they want but yeah, there's going to be friction when others spot overselling something.

 

[BulletDust]

Same applies to you as well. And you don't really play games much by what you've said many times.



If people want to use Linux, that's their choice. But like Windows it doesn't have to be everyone's. And singing the praises of desktop Linux gaming in it's current state is nothing but being a fanboy. If it's suitable for those that want to use it, that's fine. But claiming how wonderful it is when it's still getting a minority of new games and often months late on many games and often with performance issues relative to Linux. People can use whatever they want but yeah, there's going to be friction when others spot overselling something.

No, this isn't true.

I'm posting first hand experiences as someone that uses Windows, macOS and Linux as well as everything in between in an attempt to dispel misinformed opinion by Windows users such as yourself that for a great many people switching from Windows 10 to Linux is indeed possible with little in the way of negatives, in fact based on personal experience there was literally no negatives at all. If people consider my experiences and switch to Linux, great! If they don't, or if they try and it doesn't work out, than obviously Windows is the best solution for them.

I am not forcing my opinion onto others based around what I require out of a PC using misinformed points I'm regurgitating off the internet like my opinion is some form of blanket statement covering every [H] forum user by constantly throwing my sig rig ewang around - That's what you're doing.

Personally I think you're just envious that my sig rig's better than yours.

 

[heatlesssun]

I'm posting first hand experiences as someone that uses Windows, macOS and Linux as well as everything in between in an attempt to dispel misinformed opinion by Windows users such as yourself that for a great many people switching from Windows 10 to Linux is indeed possible with little in the way of negatives, in fact based on personal experience there was literally no negatives at all. If people consider my experiences and switch to Linux, great! If they don't, or if they try and it doesn't work out, than obviously Windows is the best solution for them.

No one can use everything and be an expert at it, there' simply too much out there. But you don't have to be an expert to get a reasonable understanding of something through reading or even video tutorials. If I were to hand over my sig rig to a pro-desktop Linux guys for a week and say "Hey, show me what Linux can deliver in gaming on this thing?", I know pretty much what the results are going to be. DeathFromBelow says it constantly, 1/3rd of my games might work. And good luck with any of the VR stuff.

Personally I think you're just envious that my sig rig's better than yours.

 

[tetris42]

When it comes to the Linux community... your right and wrong. That hardcore Linux stereotype is still out there can't deny it. There are still I believe many more "helpful" users in the community then there ever has been and that grows. Still I can't tell you that running into one of the old guard isn't going to happen at some point. lol

The last time I ran into Linux support was a while back, I admit, about 10 years. I was trying to get my CRT monitor to run at 85Hz, because I didn't want the flicker at 60. It was amazing the responses I got from many different people. It ranged from how I don't need to run it at 85Hz, how I should buy a new monitor, how what I'm trying doing is very fringe, how my monitor was never intended to be run at 85Hz, how I'm going to have to wait for better drivers, etc. I eventually figured it out from some obscure config setting I found elsewhere, I think the process took me about 3 days total. I'm sure Linux is in a much better state now, but the community reaction sure left an impression on me.

CommandLine... 2 things. 1) no you don't have to touch the command line if your doing basic stuff. 2) its not nearly as scary as some make it out to be. Yes you will have to learn something new... but its not hard or complicated. If your a power user I believe you sort of owe it to yourself to learn the basics of the Linux command line. Its not like there is really a lot to learn... most power user types get a pretty good handle on it after a few weeks. Still it is a powerful tool and you will likely still be learning new things for years. That isn't a bad thing as I see it.

I know I don't have to use the CLI for basic stuff, that's why I said Linux is ready for grandma. I'm saying in the course of my using Windows, I basically NEVER have to use it for everything I do. I see that as progress. I'm not AFRAID of it any more than I'm afraid of DOS. I just see it as a waste of my time and I can simply do things faster with a GUI once I've configured it for myself. That's why I use a custom shell like Litestep, I can do things faster than default Windows interface and I can sure as hell do things faster than I would with a commandline.

 

[jtm55]

Just to clarify, this isn't all about you, you aren't that special. In the past I have specifically stated that yourself switching to Linux would result in complete failure and I in no way recommend it.

However, due to the fact that you do not represent every [H] forum user, there are a great many people able to switch to Linux and, once again, the fact that they can hang onto at least part of their gaming catalogue under Linux is simply making a difficult decision easier.

You've got to stop focusing everything on yourself, don't flatter yourself, you're just a number.



Of course, we've been over this. Increased adoption results in increased support. Sitting back and claiming that I'll switch to Linux when support equals Windows is like the non union employee sitting back claiming that unions are rubbish and refusing to pay union fees, all the while being only too happy to cop the pay rise as a result of union negotiation on behalf of those that pay for the privilege. If you're incapable of actively supporting Linux by adopting the OS in some way there's no reason why you cannot support those that do choose to switch to Linux as they're the ones that are going to increase support to a standard you deem to be acceptable. <-- FULL STOP, this is a point that's not arguable.

Hi All

As someone who has gone full Linux I understand your reasoning. I initially started off like many with Ubuntu. Then as my confidence & experience grew dabbled with Red Hat, Fedora & Arch Linux, finally choosing Manjaro which is based on Arch Linux. I'm not in the IT field, I'm a Physical Therapist with no special training. To be clear there are some things you'll have to learn if you want to make the switch. However it's not difficult.

As been previously mentioned the Command line isn't scary at all. I'd bet good money that any [H]ard Forum member would have no trouble.
I moved from Windows 7 as I saw the handwriting on the wall, and decided to make the transition on my terms.

For the most part the games that I'm into are supported by Linux, to Name a few Kerbal, Verdun, Xplane and Arma. The few that aren't Linux supported
I've gotten to run using Crossover Linux ( https://www.codeweavers.com/products)

If one wants to invest a little time & effort they'll see that pretty much anything you can do on a Windows machine can be done on a Linux machine

 

[heatlesssun]

If one wants to invest a little time & effort they'll see that pretty much anything you can do on a Windows machine can be done on a Linux machine

And this is what I call overselling. When it comes to gaming this just isn't the case in any way shape or form. It might work for those who want to use Linux. It's not going to work anywhere as well for people who actually want to play games.

 

[ChadD]

That's great except why does one need a separate OS to run the games they already have working fine under Windows? The answer is they don't. For gamers, there needs be a reason around GAMING that would motivate gamers to use Linux for gaming. I can't be some political statement where most games don't work Linux and often many that do don't run as well under Linux.

Because things don't change unless you demand it. That is simple law in everything in life. If you accept what you don't like no one in power will ever change it.

You want more games developed for Linux or at least ported to it. Then make sure the people that decide that know its what you want. That is a pretty simple idea.

Still if you want a few real reason here you go....

1) By only running games and nothing else on your Win 7... things run faster. I don't care what you say heatle I have run windows long enough to know the more crap you install the slower things get.
2) means you can stay in Linux for all your NON game needs. More secure browsing, nothing spying on you. More stable OS, easy one click updates of ALL your software not just the OS. In your case I guess your not developing software or anything... but their are plenty of power users that dual boot for access to Linux and other open source tools.
3) a 100% custom desktop experience should you choose it. Hey lots of PC gamers love to tweak their systems... I have seen some pretty hacked up windows systems in my day. Linux allows you to do all of that to a much higher degree then Windows does these days.
4) Run an OS you like for games (win 7)... and still have a completely modern OS for everything else that isn't spying on you and pushing a really bad rolling distro idea. Win 10 is now a rolling release and MS isn't very good at it frankly.

I could think of some other reasons but I think if most people think about it a bit they can make their own decisions. There are plenty of good reasons to dual boot.

Hey if you never want to run Linux heatle that's fine you stick with Win 10 until you can't. I would bet that is around 4-5 years out. When AAA games start shipping for googles OS first. I guess at that point we'll welcome you to the fold.

 

[jtm55]

And this is what I call overselling. When it comes to gaming this just isn't the case in any way shape or form. It might work for those who want to use Linux. It's not going to work anywhere as well for people who actually want to play games.

Heat

I play games, it works fine for me

 

[grtitan]

It is sad that so many in here have forgotten the first rule of the internet, "please dont feed the troll".

 

[ChadD]

And this is what I call overselling. When it comes to gaming this just isn't the case in any way shape or form. It might work for those who want to use Linux. It's not going to work anywhere as well for people who actually want to play games.

As we have argued with you in 20 threads by this point. By all means dual boot and keep a win 7 drive if your games are important. better yet go buy an Xbox its what MS wants you to do afterall. lol

I am half joking heatle. The real point is... gaming isn't the end all be all of computing. Its important to plenty of us sure, and yes the guys at H love to game. Still its not the sole use for pretty much anyone around these parts machines with a few acceptions it seems such as yourself.

I most have given up on AAA gaming cause frankly not many of the "AAA" games are worth playing anymore. The few that are 9 times out of 10 really do run better on a console sadly.

I don't say that to belittle the thousands you have spent on high end gaming hardware... hey VR and all that cool stuff. Its just not what a great many of us care about all the time. If you don't see value in Linux hey I get it you do nothing with your machine but game, cool man Win 10 is likely for your then. Just wish you would stop assuming that your use case is representative of every power user in the world. I care about what Kyle and the guys think about the Ryzen or the 1080 ect and that isn't all about games.... believe it or not their are uses in the real world for all the hardware they look at around here that has nothing to do with games.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=blender-1050-1080&num=1 I mean things like this matter to me a lot more then how they perform in games... still even if that is what I care about H does a great job of breaking down the new stuff how it stacks up, and when they bench it with games it gives me a real idea how things are going to shake out for other stuff.

 

[heatlesssun]

Because things don't change unless you demand it. That is simple law in everything in life. If you accept what you don't like no one in power will ever change it.

You want more games developed for Linux or at least ported to it. Then make sure the people that decide that know its what you want. That is a pretty simple idea.

No it's not that simple. It turns the simply joy of gaming into a political crusade. Sure hardcore Linux folks will make these demands. They don't have to be every gamers though.

1) By only running games and nothing else on your Win 7... things run faster. I don't care what you say heatle I have run windows long enough to know the more crap you install the slower things get.

That's just not the case for a well maintained Windows system. I've got a tons of games, tons of commercial and FOSS software on my sig rig. Been up and running for abount 9 months. Slow the exact opposite of just about everything I do on this thing. The benchmarks I just ran through, when these 1080 Tis are OCed and SLI it working, it's crushing 4k max settings.

2) means you can stay in Linux for all your NON game needs.

Sure, if I skip Office, Adobe products or the Windows only compatible software needed for work purposes, then sure. If one has built their systems around with what Linux supports then sure. If what one does considers what's Windows compatible without regard for Linux, like most gamers or MS Officer users, then it's not this simple.

More secure browsing, nothing spying on you. More stable OS, easy one click updates of ALL your software not just the OS.

Not Steam games.

3) a 100% custom desktop experience should you choose it. Hey lots of PC gamers love to tweak their systems... I have seen some pretty hacked up windows systems in my day. Linux allows you to do all of that to a much higher degree then Windows does these days.

If that's what one is into then sure. I've always said that Linux is more customizable.

I could think of some other reasons but I think if most people think about it a bit they can make their own decisions. There are plenty of good reasons to dual boot.

There may be reasons, and one can talk about the spying and bad updates. But then there's all the stuff one uses that just works in Windows and like anything else, there needs to be a practical and observable reason. People complaining about spying on the internet. That's just getting to the point were people care about it but people might want to put down their phones if they're are that concerned about it.

Hey if you never want to run Linux heatle that's fine you stick with Win 10 until you can't. I would bet that is around 4-5 years out. When AAA games start shipping for googles OS first. I guess at that point we'll welcome you to the fold.

I'll use whatever works best for me for work and play on desktop. I don't really care if it's not Windows. But I'm also no going to rebuy or accept "1/3rd" of my games not working. Part of why Windows endures is a lot of people have spent a LOT on money on this stuff.

 

[heatlesssun]

I am half joking heatle. The real point is... gaming isn't the end all be all of computing. Its important to plenty of us sure, and yes the guys at H love to game. Still its not the sole use for pretty much anyone around these parts machines with a few acceptions it seems such as yourself.

PC gaming is a critical market in driving performance. And there's a good number of people in the forums cranking up their new 1080 Tis. It's a pretty big deal around here to a good chunk of the community.

I most have given up on AAA gaming cause frankly not many of the "AAA" games are worth playing anymore. The few that are 9 times out of 10 really do run better on a console sadly.

There are some good ones and not so good ones. However right now almost all PCVR content is from indie developers and the last year that's all been Windows.

I don't say that to belittle the thousands you have spent on high end gaming hardware... hey VR and all that cool stuff. Its just not what a great many of us care about all the time. If you don't see value in Linux hey I get it you do nothing with your machine but game, cool man Win 10 is likely for your then. Just wish you would stop assuming that your use case is representative of every power user in the world. I care about what Kyle and the guys think about the Ryzen or the 1080 ect and that isn't all about games.... believe it or not their are uses in the real world for all the hardware they look at around here that has nothing to do with games.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=blender-1050-1080&num=1 I mean things like this matter to me a lot more then how they perform in games... still even if that is what I care about H does a great job of breaking down the new stuff how it stacks up, and when they bench it with games it gives me a real idea how things are going to shake out for other stuff.

A powerful gaming PC pretty much can do anything a PC does since the point is all about performance. And it can run Linux even better as well.

 

[BulletDust]

No it's not that simple. It turns the simply joy of gaming into a political crusade. Sure hardcore Linux folks will make these demands. They don't have to be every gamers though.

Submission won't rectify anything in life. Windows 10 is a mess, submitting to the whim of MS is only going to make it worse. At some stage you have to take a stand and say 'fuck off', as the consumer you dictate the market.

Once again, the fact that you're so willing to bend over to the whim of Microsoft doesn't hold true for everyone by any stretch of the imagination, including gamers. Gamers are not the simplistic creatures you're trying to make them out to be and very few people think like yourself. I see many gamers on these very forums raging about the direction MS is headed and I'm sure many of them have the balls to do something about it.

 

[BulletDust]

PC gaming is a critical market in driving performance. And there's a good number of people in the forums cranking up their new 1080 Tis. It's a pretty big deal around here to a good chunk of the community.

1080Ti's offer performance benefits irregardless of the OS used, there are gamers under Linux that would most definitely benefit from the upgrade to a 1080Ti, I've already seen quite a few on r/linux_gaming doing just that - Contrary to what you like to believe there is a fast growing Linux gaming community willing to spend money on anything that improves their experience.

 

[heatlesssun]

Submission won't rectify anything in life. Windows 10 is a mess, submitting to the whim of MS is only going to make it worse. At some stage you have to take a stand and say 'fuck off', as the consumer you dictate the market.

Again, this is more a political statement that a matter of practical reality when using a PC. How am I submitting to the whims of Microsoft when stuff that's 10, 15 years old still runs fine? It practical terms of submission, using Linux would be more difficult for those that have stuff that's working fine and has been working fine for years to then have to scrap that or find a workaround with something that may not work as well. And one doesn't even have to dump Windows to use any of that stuff. Every alternative Office suite that you claim is better than MS Office, runs on Windows fine. So much for Microsoft imposing it's will.

If the day ever comes where Microsoft were to force all software in Windows to come from the Windows Store and Microsoft just walked away from the insane backwards compatibility of Windows, then there's where people would really feel the will of Microsoft being imposed, and in the worst way.

Once again, the fact that you're so willing to bend over to the whim of Microsoft doesn't hold true for everyone by any stretch of the imagination, including gamers. Gamers are not the simplistic creatures you're trying to make them out to be and very few people think like yourself. I see many gamers on these very forums raging about the direction MS is headed and I'm sure many of them have the balls to do something about it.

And none this means anything to me when my stuff tends to "just work". If I were having the issues that some are reporting here, I couldn't use Windows 10 because I'd have too many application failures or hardware issues for it to be practical.

 

[tetris42]

I most have given up on AAA gaming cause frankly not many of the "AAA" games are worth playing anymore. The few that are 9 times out of 10 really do run better on a console sadly.

What the hell are you talking about? Fine, you don't like a lot of popular games. The VAST MAJORITY of them nowadays run fine on the PC. Now there are the occasional crap ports like Arkham Knight, but can you name 5 in the past couple years that run worse on PC than on the console? And what's our console standard? 900p upscaled at 30fps? That seems awfully achieveable to me.

Now if you want to compare the DAY ONE experience, sure, but the industry has trained us that only suckers do that now. There's going to be bugs galore. Modern AAA games are late betas, if you wait a year, the games get all patched up and tend to be fine. It has not been my experience at all that games run better on the console, it's seriously 1 title out of maybe 50 for me. I think you're just making stuff up or are using outdated information. Now 10 years ago, yes, it was definitely a worse situation, but what games have consoles been running circles around the PC in the past 5 years or so?

 

[heatlesssun]

1080Ti's offer performance benefits irregardless of the OS used, there are gamers under Linux that would most definitely benefit from the upgrade to a 1080Ti, I've already seen quite a few on r/linux_gaming doing just that - Contrary to what you like to believe there is a fast growing Linux gaming community willing to spend money on anything that improves their experience.

Looked through this a bit, didn't see a thing about 1080 Ti under Linux. There's not even any YouTube videos I could find using the 1080 Ti under Linux.