Thou Shalt Not Repair!

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
55,601
This is an interesting case that comes as news to me. Nebraska is leading a number of states that are involved with requiring Apple and cell phone makers to supply the information needed to fix broken phones. This brings up a lot of questions around the phone being yours or not. That all said, fixing a cell phone is not exactly rocket science either whether or not you have support documentation. However, this bill also looks to force phone makers to supply repair parts. I am sure many of us would like to see this type of legislation in our states.

The legislation would require Apple and other electronics manufacturers to sell repair parts to consumers and independent repair shops, and would require manufacturers to make diagnostic and service manuals available to the public.
 
I'd really love to say I'm surprised they're fighting it. But I'm not. Too much of their business relies on hardware markups and extended warranties to just let this slide. And even IF it passes, I'd bet dollars to donuts any replacement parts they supply are gonna cost an arm and a leg.
 
Yes, Yes, and yes. did I mention yes? Because screw Sammsung and my S7 Edge with the easily cracked screen.

God forbid if you want to make things difficult like gluing the screen to 3 different parts that they should be forced to have parts on hand to easily repair.

I went to a repair shop to inquire about how much it would cost... they told me $299.99... to repair a cracked screen... It was priceless because I laughed so hard that I kept cocntinuing even as I was exiting.
 
I can see the mentality to this, but it is a very dangerous start. To have the government force anything like this adds regulations that small competitors will possibly not be able to meet. If someone in the market does provide repair parts, as some have already done, then the others will do it if it is important. Then the buyers just have to make sure to buy from companies that allow for repairs and force the others to provide those services.

The problem is that it is not the government's place to force this, but rather the buyers in the market. If the buyers aren't going to emphasize this, then it isn't important enough for the government to get involved.

The fact that Apple is the big one that is both not providing parts and the biggest single seller in the market shows both that it isn't an important aspect of smart phones and that a large portion of the buyers in the smart phone market are idiots.
 
eh, other industries are forced to provide parts so that you can fix it yourself.
Lets be real. These manuals and parts already exists. That's why apple can fix your broken phones themselves. It's not some innate knowledge.
You can find all these parts on ebay anyways. Might as well try and make it legal instead of supporting the gray market (because most of these parts probably come from stolen phones).
Computers typically come with repair manuals. Cars do as well. Phone manufacturers aren't a special animal.
 
Interesting I had a Mechanic once tell me that the business is kind of dying because Manufacturers won't sell 3rd party Mechanics the diagnostic tools they need to work on newer cars so people are forced to go to dealerships.
 
dgingeri said:
I can see the mentality to this, but it is a very dangerous start. To have the government force anything like this adds regulations that small competitors will possibly not be able to meet. If someone in the market does provide repair parts, as some have already done, then the others will do it if it is important. Then the buyers just have to make sure to buy from companies that allow for repairs and force the others to provide those services.

The problem is that it is not the government's place to force this, but rather the buyers in the market. If the buyers aren't going to emphasize this, then it isn't important enough for the government to get involved.

The fact that Apple is the big one that is both not providing parts and the biggest single seller in the market shows both that it isn't an important aspect of smart phones and that a large portion of the buyers in the smart phone market are idiots.
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I don't think there's anything "dangerous" about this at all. Designed to be replaced not repaired is not kosher at all, especially on such expensive phones. It really is kind of an insult to injury.

piscian18 said:
Interesting I had a Mechanic once tell me that the business is kind of dying because Manufacturers won't sell 3rd party Mechanics the diagnostic tools they need to work on newer cars so people are forced to go to dealerships.
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Yea, they intentionally do that to support their dealer network. They want to take power away from the consumer.
 
Legislation to require manufacturers to provide parts to repair phones simply means that it will cost you $600 to repair your $300 depreciated phone.
 
The knowledge and parts aren't really hard to find. That's the backbone of iFixit's business. Having the skill and the ability to swap out highly miniaturized, glued together components, is.

Replacing the cheap plastic surround bezel on a Galaxy S5 requires removing everything from the mid chassis and installing it on a new one. Wouldn't be much of a problem, but the screen is glued down to provide water resistance. Don't heat it up enough and pry too hard, or heat it up too much and you're buying a new screen too...
 
"would require Apple and other electronics manufacturers to sell repair parts to consumers and independent repair shops,"
At what cost?
 
I want them to do this for cameras and lenses.

You used to be able to order repair parts directly from Pentax until Ricoh took over. As far as I am aware, you can not order parts any more.

Maybe I should call the place they use for warranty repair and see if I can source parts through them.
 
It really doesn't matter anymore. Most electronics are designed to be a PITA to repair. I am sure Apple and other makers would rather sell you a new phone instead fixing it. With this law I wouldn't be surprised if they make them impossible to fix.
 
JDanser said:
I'd really love to say I'm surprised they're fighting it. But I'm not. Too much of their business relies on hardware markups and extended warranties to just let this slide. And even IF it passes, I'd bet dollars to donuts any replacement parts they supply are gonna cost an arm and a leg.
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Like getting your Volkswagen parts from a dealer arm and a leg? Stupid stretch bolts...
 
Agree. If I own the device (phone, computer, whatever) - I should have full rights to repair it. The cell phone companies are counting on us to buy a new phone every few years. Hell, Apple makes about 70% of all their revenue from the iPhone. If people aren't getting new phones, their 70% number drops.
It's a shame we even need legislation like this.
 
JDanser said:
I'd really love to say I'm surprised they're fighting it. But I'm not. Too much of their business relies on hardware markups and extended warranties to just let this slide. And even IF it passes, I'd bet dollars to donuts any replacement parts they supply are gonna cost an arm and a leg.
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If you SELL me something, it's mine. You don't have to sell me documentation, but there's only one reason to stop me from repairing it myself and that's so you can squeeze more money out of me. Try renting instead of selling, then you can do whatever the hell you want, otherwise all you get to do is void any remaining warranty and refuse responsibility for damage caused by end-user repair.
 
Finally, some legislation that fights corporatism to empower capitalism.
 
Waiting for Apple to say "fine, you want a schematic and new screen? No problem. New screen will cost you $699, OR, you can buy a new phone for $700. We'll also be requiring a paid subscription to be able to access the support documents. Yours for $50 a month".

When politicians have good intentions companies respond in kind.
 
TordanGow said:
If you SELL me something, it's mine. You don't have to sell me documentation, but there's only one reason to stop me from repairing it myself and that's so you can squeeze more money out of me. Try renting instead of selling, then you can do whatever the hell you want, otherwise all you get to do is void any remaining warranty and refuse responsibility for damage caused by end-user repair.
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Tell that to Samsung, which strong armed cell phone providers into sending out a kill code to disable recalled phones that owners wanted to keep. Somehow the malicious hacking rules don't apply to corporations killing devices belonging to mere customers.
 
I support this. Aftermarket glass replacements are often complete trash compared to OEM glass.
 
Dead Parrot said:
Tell that to Samsung, which strong armed cell phone providers into sending out a kill code to disable recalled phones that owners wanted to keep. Somehow the malicious hacking rules don't apply to corporations killing devices belonging to mere customers.
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Ugh aren't you twisting that a bit? Those phones are deemed fire hazards, banned by the TSA, and owners won't return them for a replacement free of charge or full refund. It's not about the owners right to keep a phone anymore, its about the fire hazard. And why the fuck would ppl want to keep using a fire hazard?????
 
piscian18 said:
Interesting I had a Mechanic once tell me that the business is kind of dying because Manufacturers won't sell 3rd party Mechanics the diagnostic tools they need to work on newer cars so people are forced to go to dealerships.
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It gets even worse than that. Automotive manufactures (and they lobbied for puppets) are trying to argue copyright violation simply for having or knowing the error codes vehicle computers spit out. In New York a mechanic that built his own diagnostic machine because Ford wouldn't sell him one was sued for having a Ford parts list.

Copyright law is out of hand and is being used the opposite of its original intended purpose.

http://repair.org/copyright/
 
Azrak said:
Louis Rossmann has been trying for years to get a bill passed in New York that allows 3rd parties to fix electronic failures.

This explains why apple really pushes the "trade in". Get as many older phones off the used phone market place as possible. Never guess who pays for the trade in program, Yes apple people, you do, in the built in cost of the new phone.
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NeoNemesis said:
So? How is the quality of another person's screen any of your business?
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I would like the option to actually get my iPhone or my daughter's iPad fixed with actual Apple OEM parts at a local shop. Mailing stuff away to Apple is the only option where I live (other than paying $120 CAN for blue tinted weak screens that crack from a slight bump)
 
thesmokingman said:
I don't think there's anything "dangerous" about this at all. Designed to be replaced not repaired is not kosher at all, especially on such expensive phones. It really is kind of an insult to injury.



Yea, they intentionally do that to support their dealer network. They want to take power away from the consumer.
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The dangerous part is the government forcing the issue. The government should not have that power. It is there to protect the people against aggressors who are after their property and rights, not to force things like this on businesses.
 
It would be nice if they used screws (even if they are tiny) instead of glue or shitty plastic clips to hold these things together, as well. Makes it tough to repair even if you want to.
 
thesmokingman said:
Ugh aren't you twisting that a bit? Those phones are deemed fire hazards, banned by the TSA, and owners won't return them for a replacement free of charge or full refund. It's not about the owners right to keep a phone anymore, its about the fire hazard. And why the fuck would ppl want to keep using a fire hazard?????
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Aren't you twisting it a bit by saying replacement or full refund. I know my friend didn't get either, especially when you factor in he gave up unlimited VZW and now doesn't have a phone or unlimited data.
Also what device did what the Note did? I'll wait..
Also the note 5 I have gets way hotter than the note 7.

Taking away consumers property for safety with this lame ass recall effort was about as well thought out as you know what, I think I'll be comparing things to Samsung level fucked up from now on. They decided you couldn't fly with the note while I was on vacation. Super sweet.

TSA all banned hoverboards, they've been known to be reactionary.
 
piscian18 said:
Interesting I had a Mechanic once tell me that the business is kind of dying because Manufacturers won't sell 3rd party Mechanics the diagnostic tools they need to work on newer cars so people are forced to go to dealerships.
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i am not sure why a mechanic would say anything to that effect...

there are always third party solutions to diagnose and repair vehicles.

there are programs like Mitchellondemand or alldata that assist techs in fixing cars.

we have at our shop 6 or 7 different scan tools to diagnose repair and in some situations program modules.

and if need be the tools exist to program other modules.

in face there is a subscription based software download site for every single vehicle manufacturer out there.

http://www.nastf.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3291

i think you may have a crappy mechanic.
 
Master_shake_ said:
i am not sure why a mechanic would say anything to that effect...

there are always third party solutions to diagnose and repair vehicles.

there are programs like Mitchellondemand or alldata that assist techs in fixing cars.

we have at our shop 6 or 7 different scan tools to diagnose repair and in some situations program modules.

and if need be the tools exist to program other modules.

in face there is a subscription based software download site for every single vehicle manufacturer out there.

http://www.nastf.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3291

i think you may have a crappy mechanic.
Click to expand...

I think you might be ill informed:

http://jalopnik.com/carmakers-want-to-make-working-on-your-car-illegal-beca-1699132210

http://blog.caranddriver.com/automakers-agree-to-fix-your-car-anywhere-in-right-to-repair-pledge/

It was a pretty big fight between auto manufacturers and 3rd party repair shops.
 
I'm so tired of absolutely everything being turned into cheap garbage and planned obsolescence. If there was more market competition firms would actually have to truly innovate, rather than trickle out quarter-assed "updates" like iPhone 8's wireless charging. People could spend money on quality items and diversify, or, I dunno, save.

Let's do this.
 
whatever. if they couldnt get cable companies to readily comply with the cable card requirements then how is this likely to work out (and that was the federal government)? there was like 3 real cable operators vs what 6,7,8 different cell phone makers (but they probably only care about samsung and apple right?)
 
VIC-20 said:
I would like the option to actually get my iPhone or my daughter's iPad fixed with actual Apple OEM parts at a local shop. Mailing stuff away to Apple is the only option where I live (other than paying $120 CAN for blue tinted weak screens that crack from a slight bump)
Click to expand...

I buy lots of Apple parts online and I've never paid $120 CDN for them. They are generally around $35 for an iPhone 6 screen and my kids iPad screen was about $40. Price doesn't equate to quality when purchasing online.
 
dgingeri said:
The dangerous part is the government forcing the issue. The government should not have that power. It is there to protect the people against aggressors who are after their property and rights, not to force things like this on businesses.
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Here here.
 
JDanser said:
Or a water pump gasket for a 1997 Toyota Tacoma. Go ahead and google that. :ROFLMAO:
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I just did, that's hilarious!!!!

But yeah, not many people I know buy new stretch bolts as they are like 5$ a piece and you need freaking 20 of them on top of everything else for your suspension bits. Lame.

Speaking of Samsung bricking phones, didn't Nest or whatever brick some IOT devices a little bit ago? That would have royally torqued me off, but is it not the same as a cloud service going offline or well soooort of like not paying your Meraki bill? LOL wait. no.
 
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