From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility @ [H]

Shintai said:
You are not getting MCM parts. And specially not with interposers.

And Intel isn't going to use an AMD GPU. If they for some imaginary reason had to abandon their own line. They would use Nvidia because they match the metrics Intel focuses on.

Using AMD for GPU would also be a huge step back on video decoding and encoding (Quicksync).
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So they aren't looking at compact, power efficient systems a couple years down the line? The original rumor was adopting AMD tech, either through IP licensing or direct use. That would only make sense to replace the Nvidia deal which was the result of a legal settlement. As for video encoding/decoding there isn't that much of a difference. In theory the upcoming architectures and HSA would be very effective with video and jumping between scalar and parallel work anyways. By that time we're also looking at FPGAs performing the encode/decode for better codec support and they'd have their Altera IP to use.
 
Anarchist4000 said:
So they aren't looking at compact, power efficient systems a couple years down the line? The original rumor was adopting AMD tech, either through IP licensing or direct use. That would only make sense to replace the Nvidia deal which was the result of a legal settlement. As for video encoding/decoding there isn't that much of a difference. In theory the upcoming architectures and HSA would be very effective with video and jumping between scalar and parallel work anyways. By that time we're also looking at FPGAs performing the encode/decode for better codec support and they'd have their Altera IP to use.
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GCN isn't compact and efficient. Its the exact opposite. FPGAs performing the decode? Ye that sounds really cheap.

You cant replace Nvidia IP with AMD IP unless you start all over.
 
Shintai said:
GCN isn't compact and efficient. Its the exact opposite. FPGAs performing the decode? Ye that sounds really cheap.

You cant replace Nvidia IP with AMD IP unless you start all over.
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FPGAs are the likely new broadcast standard so codecs can be updated. Not necessarily that much more expensive all things considered. They'll be in every TV and multimedia device soon enough.
 
Anarchist4000 said:
FPGAs are the likely new broadcast standard so codecs can be updated. Not necessarily that much more expensive all things considered. They'll be in every TV and multimedia device soon enough.
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So what will drive the cost down so significantly to make this possible? And will it be an addon chip instead of integrated?
 
Shintai said:
So what will drive the cost down so significantly to make this possible? And will it be an addon chip instead of integrated?
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For codecs they don't have to be huge, and they'll likely be integrated and discrete. AMD for instance had that magnum FPGA board for DTV, but we haven't seen what they're doing with it. FPGAs have a lot of applications, so no reason they won't be integrated on many chips to replace the existing en/decoders. They could very well be accelerating compression or encryption as a coprocessor, so makes sense lots of them will be around. They're simply more efficient once you get a large variety of codecs and formats needing support. Plus the ability to support new ones so long as they aren't overly complex algorithms.
 
Anarchist4000 said:
For codecs they don't have to be huge, and they'll likely be integrated and discrete. AMD for instance had that magnum FPGA board for DTV, but we haven't seen what they're doing with it. FPGAs have a lot of applications, so no reason they won't be integrated on many chips to replace the existing en/decoders. They could very well be accelerating compression or encryption as a coprocessor, so makes sense lots of them will be around. They're simply more efficient once you get a large variety of codecs and formats needing support. Plus the ability to support new ones so long as they aren't overly complex algorithms.
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The magnum board was a prototype. Using FPGA for development is very common. Pascal, Polaris, Volta, Vega etc is also made this way tho in a different scale. Gsync uses FPGA as well, increasing its cost.
 
Shintai said:
GCN isn't compact and efficient. Its the exact opposite. FPGAs performing the decode? Ye that sounds really cheap.
.
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Yeah that is a good point, consider Intel will not effing put the eDRAM into their enthusiast CPUs as a L4 cache, or how they went out of their way to save 10c-$1 per CPU when it comes to cooling (context being focus on savings and not cost-absolute performance).
Cheers
 
law-policing-sues-lawyers-barristers-newspapers-lawsuit-68132607_low.jpg
 
EuphoricRage470 said:
There was no mention of it on either Intel's or AMD's calls, if it were signed a while back, there would be some financial evidence as well as some disclosure on both sides. I don't think it's real.
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is the call over? if yes, did no analyst ask about it
 
EuphoricRage470 said:
There was no mention of it on either Intel's or AMD's calls, if it were signed a while back, there would be some financial evidence as well as some disclosure on both sides. I don't think it's real.
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Shintai said:
You dont ask about...fiction.
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If current dollar value is immaterial to each as far as can be seen, then the agreement could very well not be disclosed to stock holders.

That said, this is what I just got back from one source that did have information on this, but was not the primary source. He said, "....the info is still valid, just not fully consummated..." Still waiting for information from the primary source, but it is not someone that I have easy access to. I will be patient even if you two are not. I see some really good custom titles coming your way soon. ;)
 
BrianB said:
was not meant against you in any form. since the nature of the deal is unknown, it is pretty much impossible to quess whats coming or not coming. also i wonder what cpc hardware knows reps. what their sources are. they mentioned "Intel is working on a MCM with a AMD GPU" only with on single sentence in a multiple page report. seems strange...
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Guess you better get a better dictionary.

hoax
hōks/
noun
  1. a humorous or malicious deception.
 
Shintai thinks he knows how corporations do things, lots of things are last minute in the corporate world especially if one side does not want it public any sooner then it needs to be. Should know for sure in 1 month.
 
Intel's current licensing deal doesn't expire until March. If such a deal is going to be made with AMD, it doesn't surprise me that there hasn't been any mention of it yet as it's not currently needed
 
Tyns said:
Intel's current licensing deal doesn't expire until March. If such a deal is going to be made with AMD, it doesn't surprise me that there hasn't been any mention of it yet as it's not currently needed
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I think there is/was negotiations but still not agreed between the parties and no guarantee, AMD usually in part of their forward looking statement in those results/conference call would comment they have a cross-licensing deal agreed with a 3rd party (would not name the company yet) and with a rough estimate when coming into effect but that did not happen.
This would make sense to do especially considering the more down comments they provided for their next quarter estimation.
I think some in AMD jumped the gun with this leak-rumour.
Cheers
 
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BrianB said:
thought the same. so, it was a hoax
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Guess I am making stuff up that you are posting in thread about an article that I wrote and statements that I made. If you are going to be making statements of fact about our content, I would highly suggest you be ready to defend those statements with proof.
 
BrianB said:
Better? Ok, Hoax was too strong. It was the reaction to absolutely no news about it (being a done deal) and again, not against you or how you work.
This is the thread discussing this topic, probably the only place in the www.

So what do think about cpc hardware's info then?
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I do not understand your question.
 
CSI_PC said:
Seems to me Brian is inferring that it is not you but the source information or those that provided said information were at fault whether deliberately or a mistake on their part, which fits his response to my post although using word hoax was too strong a description.
TBH I think those sources jumped the gun, plausible that negotiations are happening but not signed off yet and may even fall through *shrug*.
Especially as part of the conference call they mentioned other forward looking activities (Raven Ridge being one) and in the past calls mentioned upcoming deals/licensing agreements/etc but with no details of the 3rd party.

Cheers
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No, I did not understand his question, "So what do think about cpc hardware's info then?"
 
I wouldn't be surprised Intel just buys out Imagination Technologies, use that tech in upcoming Cannonlake. Believe Intel Atom already uses Imagination Technology anyways. Does not mean discussions are not going seriously with AMD even Nvidia and others. If Intel wants to get into more of Apple share, small or cell phone size computing and basically control that market Imagination Technologies seems to be more beneficial to them. Then again AMD maybe has some strong future tech they might want - who knows besides those dealing?
 
noko said:
I wouldn't be surprised Intel just buys out Imagination Technologies, use that tech in upcoming Cannonlake. Believe Intel Atom already uses Imagination Technology anyways. Does not mean discussions are not going seriously with AMD even Nvidia and others. If Intel wants to get into more of Apple share, small or cell phone size computing and basically control that market Imagination Technologies seems to be more beneficial to them. Then again AMD maybe has some strong future tech they might want - who knows besides those dealing?
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Intel dumped Imagination Technologies twice, last time foe good.
http://www.standard.co.uk/business/...fter-intel-dumps-cut-price-stake-9567763.html
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...nologies-slips-as-intel-sells-remaining-stake

Apple seems to be working on their own GPU design. They hired a lot of GPU specific people like Intel.
 
CSI_PC said:
Seems to me Brian is inferring that it is not you but the source information or those that provided said information were at fault whether deliberately or a mistake on their part, which fits his response to my post although using word hoax was too strong a description.
TBH I think those sources jumped the gun, plausible that negotiations are happening but not signed off yet and may even fall through *shrug*.
Especially as part of the conference call they mentioned other forward looking activities (Raven Ridge being one) and in the past calls mentioned upcoming deals/licensing agreements/etc but with no details of the 3rd party.

Cheers
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that was my point.
 
Gideon said:
Shintai thinks he knows how corporations do things, lots of things are last minute in the corporate world especially if one side does not want it public any sooner then it needs to be. Should know for sure in 1 month.
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LOL no they are not, everything is the corporate world goes slow, lots of red tape, and people to answer to and answer for. Nothing ever moves fast....... The bigger and older the company the more political hurdles that have to jumped, and we are talking about two largest and oldest corporations in the computer world.
 
razor1 said:
LOL no they are not, everything is the corporate world goes slow, lots of red tape, and people to answer to and answer for. Nothing ever moves fast....... The bigger and older the company the more political hurdles that have to jumped, and we are talking about two largest and oldest corporations in the computer world.
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You would be wrong. The lower in the food chain the slower things are. At the top decisions can be made quickly. If your a public traded company it can appear to be slow due to lawyers and paperwork but the decision is already made and done. When you make a deal and you don't want it public till the last minute you wait till the last minute to ink the deal, happens quite a bit. But I will go by both your answers to know neither of you has worked high up in the food chain in a corporate world.
 
Gideon said:
You would be wrong. The lower in the food chain the slower things are. At the top decisions can be made quickly. If your a public traded company it can appear to be slow due to lawyers and paperwork but the decision is already made and done. When you make a deal and you don't want it public till the last minute you wait till the last minute to ink the deal, happens quite a bit. But I will go by both your answers to know neither of you has worked high up in the food chain in a corporate world.
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You are talking about two different things, when a company announces something vs when negotiations go on. Negotiations can take up to years.

LOL I haven't? I'm a sr producer at NBC/comacst, sorry I'm pretty high up in the totem pole here, and one position away from executive level (equivalent to C level without the title)

Take you assumptions about corporations and shove em ya know where. My tech department at NBC is faster, more nimble and more proactive in skunk works, than smaller corporations because the need (due to failures in the past) and when our production team got together and we told the higher ups what we needed they listened, but it took years for them to get to where they are now, and power was given to them to move fast. Otherwise things are always slow. When it comes to negotiations, things are never fast, and now you are talking about core technology that could have ramifications in long term deals in market place (AMD), they are going to be very careful on how and what things Intel can and can not use or do.
 
Oh Comcast no wonder you come off as a asshole. Negotiations can take years and you don't announce them unless you want to do some PR about it. Deals can be made quickly and have been there and been part of them, middle management is always the last to know. I am in the car industry so perhaps things are much slower over in the entertainment / isp world. But since you cant figure it out, I am saying the deal can be all done all negotiations are done and contract written, just needs signatures and it's a done deal. Lots of things don't get announced in financials early for many reasons. Like I said in a month will know for sure one way or the other.
 
Gideon said:
Oh Comcast no wonder you come off as a asshole. Negotiations can take years and you don't announce them unless you want to do some PR about it. Deals can be made quickly and have been there and been part of them, middle management is always the last to know. I am in the car industry so perhaps things are much slower over in the entertainment / isp world. But since you cant figure it out, I am saying the deal can be all done all negotiations are done and contract written, just needs signatures and it's a done deal. Lots of things don't get announced in financials early for many reasons. Like I said in a month will know for sure one way or the other.
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LOL so you know how things are done here at NBC, comcast is our parent company that bought out NBC oh 4 years ago, and they have nothing to do with us, we don't answer to them directly, outside of EOY results,;our budgets, and strategies have limited synergies with them. I work in special effects and emerging technologies over all of NBC's brands which include TV shows and channels (Telemundo, USA, Syfy, and many more), and Universal Pictures (over computer IP and video IP), and we need to move as fast as possible because its time constrained all the time, but unless we have good reason and well documented ways of doing things we don't move forward cause its our ass that's on the line.

If you think this is me being an ahole, you haven't been talking to people that work high up in corporations, not many of them are nice people when it comes to their business.
 
Shintai said:
Intel dumped Imagination Technologies twice, last time foe good.
http://www.standard.co.uk/business/...fter-intel-dumps-cut-price-stake-9567763.html
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...nologies-slips-as-intel-sells-remaining-stake

Apple seems to be working on their own GPU design. They hired a lot of GPU specific people like Intel.
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Apple already has a custom GPU shipping since iPhone 6s, per David Kanter. It uses Imagination for the rest of the GPU, but has custom shaders and compiler.

http://www.realworldtech.com/apple-custom-gpu/

If anyone is likely to buy Imagination Tech, it's Apple.
 
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Shintai said:
Generalization of people isn't a good thing. Comcast got what, 153000 employees?
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Ahh yes it must be tough for you to be the boy wonder of the dynamic duo. Razor is more then capable of taking care of himself, it's not like him and I have failed to see eye to eye before.
 
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Gideon said:
Deals can be made quickly and have been there and been part of them, middle management is always the last to know. I am in the car industry so perhaps things are much slower over in the entertainment / isp world.
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Decisions are made quickly there as well, execution on the other hand can take some time, but plans are always being drawn up.
 
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