Broadband Declared A Basic Service In Canada

[Exavior]

They're probably going to do what they did here: Set up LTE for now and upgrade it to 5G later.

I have been 100% wireless for 2 years now. I have two full speed LTE modems hooked to a load balancer and I would never go back to DSL.
I live in non-urban area so I have no real chance to hook to a fibreoptic line. They quoted 2500 bucks to pull the fibre to my house.

That isn't that unfair of a price. We do all of our own work and contract out nothing, it cost us about $2200 - $2400 per customer on average to get a connection to their house by the time you factor in electronics, fiber and all that. So for a company having you pay upfront to get all the money now instead of over the next 30 years that $2500 probably isn't far off from what it is costing them. I know that people don't like that number, but that is about average for a per house past cost to do a FTTH buildout.

I don't get the need for people to have anything greater than 10 mbps unless you are streaming 4K. I can stream two 1080p programs in my house, talk on the phone and apply updates with no pauses on 25mbps. Do I really need more?

We can't answer that question for you. It depends on what you are doing and how many people are in your house. Personally 25 is fine for me also. I notice issues at times with my Xbox one taking all possible bandwidth so I have trouble downloading games and streaming. More bandwidth would make it faster for me to download games, but as a single person that amount is fine for me even with 4k streaming. That said I know people with 5 people under one roof where that is not even close to enough. But it all depends on the user. Just like not everyone needs a mini van but some do.

 

[Exavior]

VOIP isn't regulated in Canada. Neither is internet. Nor cellular service.

or to word your post here differently. Canada is the same way as what I just said for the USA. ILECs are regulated CLECs are not.

 

[Bloodystumps]

This statement "Broadband Declared A Basic Service In Canada" makes me feel there is a BUTT coming in the near future and it will some how cost me....

 

[deaedius]

It's funny, I don't know why but the isp's in Canada are really stepping it up last year or so (atleast in my area lol). We went from $60/month for 25/7.5 from both shaw and Telus to one day telus knocking on my door offering me fiber into my house. They now supply me 150/150 for $75 a month which is awesome (no contract or rental fee's and not a promo price), I actually feel like im getting some value for my money for once lol

At least until you can get gigabit for 49.99.....

 

[HockeyJon]

Everyone is talking about the remote areas of Canada. I agree, they should have broadband access, but what blows my mind is why I still drop cell phone calls on the 407 highway in Canada's largest and densest urban area. Seriously, we can't even get quality service where people actually live. It's pathetic. Reed Hastings called Canada's Internet "3rd World" a few years ago and everyone here got all offended for some reason. He's completely correct.

 

[B00nie]

So get them to roll the 2,500 into a contract for fiber connection and have your company pay for that!

That would make no sense when LTE works great and is much cheaper.

 

[B00nie]

That isn't that unfair of a price. We do all of our own work and contract out nothing, it cost us about $2200 - $2400 per customer on average to get a connection to their house by the time you factor in electronics, fiber and all that. So for a company having you pay upfront to get all the money now instead of over the next 30 years that $2500 probably isn't far off from what it is costing them. I know that people don't like that number, but that is about average for a per house past cost to do a FTTH buildout.

The point is that there are optic lines criss-crossing this country but due to legal reasons many of them are kept secret. People can literally sit on a line and the operator denies its existence and then charges you for kilometers of line pull if you try to order a connection. I'm not going to risk paying thousands for nothing especially when full speed LTE is awesome in everything but gaming latency.

 

[Exavior]

The point is that there are optic lines criss-crossing this country but due to legal reasons many of them are kept secret. People can literally sit on a line and the operator denies its existence and then charges you for kilometers of line pull if you try to order a connection. I'm not going to risk paying thousands for nothing especially when full speed LTE is awesome in everything but gaming latency.

But that fiber all has different uses and you don't mix those uses unless are you a dumb ass with no idea of what you are doing or just don't care about doing things the correct way. Which sadly due to lack of knowledge on the subject you are in the first category. At a minimum you have 2 category of fibers. Trunk fiber that goes between your equipment, and distribution going out to your customers. These should be completely separate fibers so that when working on getting new customers turned up you are not working in the same group of fibers that you use to feed everything. Last thing you want to do is knock down an entire city or 10 because you have to open a splice case to cut a new customer in. So yes there might be trunk fiber in your area but that can't be used to go to your house. Which is what would be going coast to coast. So the real question you need to look at is currently is there distribution fiber near you, which if the cost you are quoted is $2500 then the answer is yes, there is distribution fiber near you. It cost between $40,000 USD to $55,000 USD per mile to put in fiber outside of cities. So for the conversion that is $24,800 USD to $34,100 USD per km to put in. Although this is the average for the USA going through dirt, sand or clay or going all areal. That is no for people drilling through rocks or for something like Canada where they are going to have a few more hurdles. Boring machines used here require it be above 20F (-6.6C) in order for them to function, you also need the ground to not be frozen solid. So there is going to be a much smaller window in some areas to get anything So if they actually need to run a new km of fiber and were going to pass that cost on to you in full, you would be getting a bill for at least $25,000 USD to get service.

 

[Todd Walter]

They're probably going to do what they did here: Set up LTE for now and upgrade it to 5G later.

I have been 100% wireless for 2 years now. I have two full speed LTE modems hooked to a load balancer and I would never go back to DSL.
I live in non-urban area so I have no real chance to hook to a fibreoptic line. They quoted 2500 bucks to pull the fibre to my house.

Only 2500? You should have jumped on it. I've had Rogers quote me 18,000 to come up the street to our plant in Barrie before! (and that was flippin' cable, not FO).

 

[Todd Walter]

That article is a little terse and doesn't cover one the reasons the government actually had to work for the consumer this time; their own agencies have been posting jobs with high-speed Internet access as a requirement, which is a no-no as they aren't supposed to favour urban over rural for posts.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/internet-jobs-federal-government-rural-urban-1.3908267

 

[tetris42]

Nothing beats capitalism when there's competition with little barrier to entry for new competitors. It creates survival of the fittest, and the best business practices expand while the least efficient die off.

Well, best business practices for owners / shareholders. That's often not the same thing as the best practices for the workers, customers, environment, resource allocation, general safety, etc.

 

[DKS]

Hey now, he never even mentioned the Leafs.

You mean the alleged hockey team?

 

[DKS]

It's funny, I don't know why but the isp's in Canada are really stepping it up last year or so (atleast in my area lol). We went from $60/month for 25/7.5 from both shaw and Telus to one day telus knocking on my door offering me fiber into my house. They now supply me 150/150 for $75 a month which is awesome (no contract or rental fee's and not a promo price), I actually feel like im getting some value for my money for once lol

Very true. We were a fibre desert here and all of a sudden Bruce Telecom is building out FTTH. Bell seems to be hinting at least FTTN if not FTTH.

 

[Exavior]

Very true. We were a fibre desert here and all of a sudden Bruce Telecom is building out FTTH. Bell seems to be hinting at least FTTN if not FTTH.

which in this day and age not going at least fiber to the node is hard. There are still a few bounded T1 or bounded VDSL options but they aren't the greatest. The stuff I have right now doing ADSL is feed by fiber.. Only an OC3 but it is still fiber...and 20 years old. So wouldn't be impressed by FTTN. Now FTTC would be a fair halfway point where they get fiber close to your house and feed G.Fast or VDSL to everyone with say 1000 to 2000 feet of the box. To give faster speeds with xDSL technology. It is faster than a full fiber to the home rollout and a little cheaper. You are still running fiber but don't have ONTs and new drops to every customer.

 

[PanzeR-]

I don't get the need for people to have anything greater than 10 mbps unless you are streaming 4K. I can stream two 1080p programs in my house, talk on the phone and apply updates with no pauses on 25mbps. Do I really need more?

Considering how long it takes to lay down all of this, they might be "futureproofing".
North of the 51'' parallel 20mbps is 150$ per month. Quite higher than the 40$ 10mbps lol. But then again, the closest town is 250km away.

 

[B00nie]

But that fiber all has different uses and you don't mix those uses unless are you a dumb ass with no idea of what you are doing or just don't care about doing things the correct way. Which sadly due to lack of knowledge on the subject you are in the first category. At a minimum you have 2 category of fibers. Trunk fiber that goes between your equipment, and distribution going out to your customers. These should be completely separate fibers so that when working on getting new customers turned up you are not working in the same group of fibers that you use to feed everything. Last thing you want to do is knock down an entire city or 10 because you have to open a splice case to cut a new customer in. So yes there might be trunk fiber in your area but that can't be used to go to your house. Which is what would be going coast to coast. So the real question you need to look at is currently is there distribution fiber near you, which if the cost you are quoted is $2500 then the answer is yes, there is distribution fiber near you. It cost between $40,000 USD to $55,000 USD per mile to put in fiber outside of cities. So for the conversion that is $24,800 USD to $34,100 USD per km to put in. Although this is the average for the USA going through dirt, sand or clay or going all areal. That is no for people drilling through rocks or for something like Canada where they are going to have a few more hurdles. Boring machines used here require it be above 20F (-6.6C) in order for them to function, you also need the ground to not be frozen solid. So there is going to be a much smaller window in some areas to get anything So if they actually need to run a new km of fiber and were going to pass that cost on to you in full, you would be getting a bill for at least $25,000 USD to get service.

You're the dumbass. Just today there was a news report of a local businessman who operated his business from his own residence. He was told multiple times from all the operators that it was pretty much impossible to get him a fiber. The operator quoted 195 000 euros to pull the fiber to his house. After he excavated the cables out himself, turns out the optic cable from TWO different operators ran 2 meters from his post box. The installation took two hours and cost him a couple hundred bucks.

From your defensive and aggressive position I gather you're a part of the operator scam. Shame on you.

 

[Exavior]

You're the dumbass. Just today there was a news report of a local businessman who operated his business from his own residence. He was told multiple times from all the operators that it was pretty much impossible to get him a fiber. The operator quoted 195 000 euros to pull the fiber to his house. After he excavated the cables out himself, turns out the optic cable from TWO different operators ran 2 meters from his post box. The installation took two hours and cost him a couple hundred bucks.

From your defensive and aggressive position I gather you're a part of the operator scam. Shame on you.

I work for an ISP yes. However I also work for the department in charge of installing equipment and making sure it stays up and running. If I put fiber between my boxes that is all it is for. I run separate fiber going to customers. And the smart way is to run both at the same time as the most expensive part is doing the trenching. So putting in a second duct or a second fiber is fairly cheap. We did it the other way once. Had to knock service down to an entire city to give one new customer service because we had to cut the fiber and splice him in and the only way to do that was to knock down the entire city. Does that seem like a smart way to do that to you? To have to knock down service to an entire city every time you turn up a new customer? We called that a horrible design, as most people would and reran our fiber through the area and fixed that. The smart way to plan any network is to keep the fiber between nodes separate from that going to your customers. that way if you need to knock people down to add more customers into the network you are only knocking down that leg and not everyone. If a person with an understanding of networking plans out your network you end up with separate fibers, if somebody with no knowledge of anything decides on how you should do it then you end up knocking out entire cities every time you need to splice in a new customer.

 

[B00nie]

I work for an ISP yes. However I also work for the department in charge of installing equipment and making sure it stays up and running. If I put fiber between my boxes that is all it is for. I run separate fiber going to customers. And the smart way is to run both at the same time as the most expensive part is doing the trenching. So putting in a second duct or a second fiber is fairly cheap. We did it the other way once. Had to knock service down to an entire city to give one new customer service because we had to cut the fiber and splice him in and the only way to do that was to knock down the entire city. Does that seem like a smart way to do that to you? To have to knock down service to an entire city every time you turn up a new customer? We called that a horrible design, as most people would and reran our fiber through the area and fixed that. The smart way to plan any network is to keep the fiber between nodes separate from that going to your customers. that way if you need to knock people down to add more customers into the network you are only knocking down that leg and not everyone. If a person with an understanding of networking plans out your network you end up with separate fibers, if somebody with no knowledge of anything decides on how you should do it then you end up knocking out entire cities every time you need to splice in a new customer.

I really don't care about your work problems. The fact is that the case I just presented to you is not unique and a fine example of what I was writing about in the post you started calling me names for.

 

[Exavior]

I really don't care about your work problems. The fact is that the case I just presented to you is not unique and a fine example of what I was writing about in the post you started calling me names for.

That isn't my work's problem. That is what happens when you try to break into a fiber that isn't designed to supply customers. I was giving you an example of what happens when you try to do what you suggest is how it should work. Which is about on par with saying that you should never run new cat5 to locations but instead should just find the nearest one and cut that in half.

 

[Draax]

That isn't my work's problem. That is what happens when you try to break into a fiber that isn't designed to supply customers. I was giving you an example of what happens when you try to do what you suggest is how it should work. Which is about on par with saying that you should never run new cat5 to locations but instead should just find the nearest one and cut that in half.

But did you have to be a douche bag about it?

But that fiber all has different uses and you don't mix those uses unless are you a dumb ass with no idea of what you are doing or just don't care about doing things the correct way. Which sadly due to lack of knowledge on the subject you are in the first category.

 

[ThecknoDecker]

I never understood the need for TV at the cottage. Internet access sure, but generally you go to the cottage to get away from the city, all the gadgets and to get outdoors.

Or go to the cottage to stay indoors watching tv?

guess its just me though.

Well by day I'm mostly outside (or inside doing maintenance)
But at night I like watching TV/movies