Germany Threatens to Fine Facebook Over Hate Speech

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Facebook really needs to do something about this before Germany starts levying the fines. Nothing motivates governments into action faster, regardless of the reason, than the possibility of getting big fat juicy fines from a company with deep pockets like Facebook.

German officials are stepping up their criticism of Facebook, saying the social network is doing too little to stop hate speech and could face stiff fines unless it deletes illegal content faster. In an interview published Friday, Justice Minister Heiko Maas said his ministry was checking whether it would be possible to make social networking sites legally liable for illegal posts.
 
Facebook and their lowest bidder review checkers definitely don't do enough to remove hate speech. Germany's decision, whatever it might be, will hopefully cleanup the dreck.
 
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These idiots have their days numbered in office. They consider everything they find disagreeable as hate speech. The only thing not hate speech in their eyes is their own opinion echoed back to them.

"Hate speech" is used too broadly recently in Europe. The only speech that should be considered a crime and prosecuted is speech that directly incites violence.
 
M76 said:
These idiots have their days numbered in office. They consider everything they find disagreeable as hate speech. The only thing not hate speech in their eyes is their own opinion echoed back to them.

"Hate speech" is used too broadly recently in Europe. The only speech that should be considered a crime and prosecuted is speech that directly incites violence.
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Nice rant, bruh. That's exactly what they are doing - forcing out the extremists trying to rile people up.
 
dgz said:
Nice rant, bruh. That's exactly what they are doing - forcing out the extremists trying to rile people up.
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Oh yes, stick your head in the sand and go along with self destruction like a good little Nazi.

Good thing there are those willing to stand up to this lunacy.
 
At first I read the title as "Genmay Threatens to Fine Facebook Over Hate Speech" and was thinking when did the [H]orde take out a patent on hate speech...
 
5icko said:
Oh yes, stick your head in the sand and go along with self destruction like a good little Nazi.

Good thing there are those willing to stand up to this lunacy.
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Death threats are OK in your book?

Don't get me wrong. I am not an uber lefty. I will have little problem with drastic measures against violent waves of migrants when the time comes. This time is not now. They are not doing anything to us. Not yet.
 
dgz said:
Death threats are OK in your book?

Don't get me wrong. I am not an uber lefty. I will have little problem with drastic measures against violent waves of migrants when the time comes. This time is not now. They are not doing anything to us. Not yet.
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It's not about death threats.

Get informed. It's about shutting down dissent, against those who oppose their agenda. Anything that they disagree with is hate speech.
 
Can you imagine the slippery road that this will cause? Every web forum, game forum... this forum. All coming under scrutiny for how fast that Steve or Kyle remove garbage from this site? This road gets rough fast people. Why would facebook be responsible for what you post on your page? Reddit? There are tons of places that people put many horrid comments. Can we sue all the fake news creators? Security or Freedom? I guess we are picking Security. The German people thought they were too in 1937. Careful now folks.
 
dgz said:
Death threats are OK in your book?

Don't get me wrong. I am not an uber lefty. I will have little problem with drastic measures against violent waves of migrants when the time comes. This time is not now. They are not doing anything to us. Not yet.
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So wait til they come here and destroy everything like they doing I'm Europe before we do anything?
 
dgz said:
Death threats are OK in your book?

Don't get me wrong. I am not an uber lefty. I will have little problem with drastic measures against violent waves of migrants when the time comes. This time is not now. They are not doing anything to us. Not yet.
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We already discussed this on the other thread that came up a few weeks ago. You ran away from the discussion that time, and I expect you will do the same this time as well. All you can do is spout politically correct BS, and PC is a disease that infects both the left and the right, let alone far left. PC suppresses free speech, and should not be supported.
 
dgz said:
Death threats are OK in your book?

Don't get me wrong. I am not an uber lefty. I will have little problem with drastic measures against violent waves of migrants when the time comes. This time is not now. They are not doing anything to us. Not yet.
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Nice strawman argument. Of course, most people don't condone real death threats, but what about someone wishing you were dead? Or saying "I hope you die a horrible death." Is that a death threat? The problem is with the definition of "hate". This is an emotion and as such can't be objectively defined, so depending on who you are, just about anything can be "hateful", such as "Your hair is really ugly", or "You suck at this game". Who's feelings are we going to use to legally define what "hate speech" is? If you say "everybody's", then just about everything will be considered "hate speech", including "Have a nice day" (when said to someone who is depressed). The best way to handle "hate speech" (as opposed to death/harm threats) is socially: ignore them; don't give them the attention they crave. Frankly, people need to get a thicker skin, or not expose their fragile psyche to the Internet as much.
 
I know! Let's fine the wall someone grafitti'd hate speech on.

It's definitely the walls fault!

If anything Germany should be happy with Facebook, as it makes it soon.much easier to find out who their extremists are, when their hate speech is tied to their name and profile :p
 
dgz said:
Death threats are OK in your book?

Don't get me wrong. I am not an uber lefty. I will have little problem with drastic measures against violent waves of migrants when the time comes. This time is not now. They are not doing anything to us. Not yet.
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Death threats are not OK.

Go after the person who made the threat with criminal charges, not the medium through which they made the threat.

Fining Facebook for this is like suing the phone company because someone made a threatening phone call. Absolutely silly.
 
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5icko said:
It's not about death threats.

Get informed. It's about shutting down dissent, against those who oppose their agenda. Anything that they disagree with is hate speech.
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What agenda? German politicians want to destroy Germany using Muslims, of all people, because... what? This is a not a cartoon.

Vader1975, yeah because German laws apply outside of their country? Come on guys, this is not a bar. We're not drunk.
 
vegeta535 said:
So wait til they come here and destroy everything like they doing I'm Europe before we do anything?
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Nice try. Except I am in Europe and they've been here for a while now. This is the first MAJOR wave. Syrian civil problems started more than a decade ago.

What have they destroyed so far? Enlighten me. Spreading nonsense FUD is what you're doing
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Death threats are not OK.

Go after the person who made the threat with criminal charges, not the medium through which they made the threat.

Fining Facebook for this is like suing the phone company because someone made a threatening phone call. Absolutely silly.
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Can you imagine what would happen if they start prosecuting thousands of people?

You analogy is wrong. All they ask FB to do is start enforcing their laws in fucking Germany. Context matters.

Jesus, I can't believe I am defending censorship
 
M76 said:
These idiots have their days numbered in office. They consider everything they find disagreeable as hate speech.
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Its a simple way to control the conversation. Someone disagrees with you politically, then you start throwing a myriad of buzzwords at them, whatever-ist, whatever-phobe, etc. (with the intent of "phobias" to portray you as not disagreeing with them but to dismiss you as having a mental illness). And if that doesn't work, then you take things a step further and try to attack them financially by trying to get them fired from their job, boycotting, fining, etc. (as they are doing here). If that fails, then they go full Soros style and hire thugs to violently "protest" you so that you fear for your safety.

They have been using these McCarthyist tactics (lately quite literally, by condemning opponents as being Russian conspirators) for a long time with great success, but they have finally reached a level of SJW crybully that the average person has been pushed too far and is standing their ground. So hopefully the pendulum swings back to the middle and to sanity again, with leftists losing all branches of government in the United States, on massive decline in the United Kingdom as shown with Brexit, and with powershifts across Europe as well in spite of the wall of propaganda from the media they face.
 
PaulP said:
Nice strawman argument. Of course, most people don't condone real death threats, but what about someone wishing you were dead? Or saying "I hope you die a horrible death." Is that a death threat? The problem is with the definition of "hate". This is an emotion and as such can't be objectively defined, so depending on who you are, just about anything can be "hateful", such as "Your hair is really ugly", or "You suck at this game". Who's feelings are we going to use to legally define what "hate speech" is? If you say "everybody's", then just about everything will be considered "hate speech", including "Have a nice day" (when said to someone who is depressed). The best way to handle "hate speech" (as opposed to death/harm threats) is socially: ignore them; don't give them the attention they crave. Frankly, people need to get a thicker skin, or not expose their fragile psyche to the Internet as much.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime#Germany

Follow the links. It's not what you're saying at all. Not that vague it seems. They are painfully aware of their history
 
dgz said:
Can you imagine what would happen if they start prosecuting thousands of people?

You analogy is wrong. All they ask FB to do is start enforcing their laws in fucking Germany. Context matters.

Jesus, I can't believe I am defending censorship
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Look, the people who have these hateful beliefs based on race/religion/gender/whatever aren't just going to change their minds if Facebook moderates their comments.

They are going to use other means to spread their hate. Better to catch them in the act and prosecute them under Germany's hate speech laws on a platform that leads investigators straight to them, rather than deal with them once their hate boils into other more nefarious actions.

And yes, the phone company comparison is relevant. Facebook has almost 2 billion users in total, some 26 million of them in Germany. We all know that automated algorithms fail at this sort of thing, and there is absolutely no way they could ever hire enough moderators to keep up with this many users comments. They lack the ability to practically censor hate speech just as much as the phone company does.

Also, as to it not having any effect on Facebook outside of Germany, how would they make this separation? Its not as if the German Facebook site is a separate one. I have friends on my Facebook account who live in Germany. When would this censorship go into effect? What if someone makes hateful comment on my page, and a friend of mine from Germany argues with that person. Now the hate speech shows up in their feed in Germany. How do they apply the censorship now? Its a very complex web of interactions that transcend borders, making this type of regulation extremely difficult for a company like Facebook to enforce.
 
Tsumi said:
We already discussed this on the other thread that came up a few weeks ago. You ran away from the discussion that time, and I expect you will do the same this time as well. All you can do is spout politically correct BS, and PC is a disease that infects both the left and the right, let alone far left. PC suppresses free speech, and should not be supported.
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Didn't run away. Your arguments make sense. Except I am willing to offer these people help.

You talked about enforcing borders, right? Meaning you're not not willing to give anything to help them, and I do.
 
dgz said:
What agenda? German politicians want to destroy Germany using Muslims, of all people, because... what? This is a not a cartoon.

Vader1975, yeah because German laws apply outside of their country? Come on guys, this is not a bar. We're not drunk.
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You've got blinders on.

It’s not Germany they wish to destroy, it's Western Capitalism. And the pathway to that end is to create chaos.

Get educated on history, old and new. Or... keep going along with what the Leftists are telling you:

White bad, color good.
Capitalism bad, communism good.
Climate skepticism bad, alarmism good.
Businesses bad, government good.
State media good, alt media bad.

Wake up and become part of the solution or remain part of the problem. Change is coming. And not the racist change Obongo brought.
 
dgz said:
Didn't run away. Your arguments make sense. Except I am willing to offer these people help.

You talked about enforcing borders, right? Meaning you're not not willing to give anything to help them, and I do.
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You're willing to offer these people help? With whose money, yours? Are you sponsoring a Muslim Somali family to stay in your house?

Right.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Look, the people who have these hateful beliefs based on race/religion/gender/whatever aren't just going to change their minds if Facebook moderates their comments.

They are going to use other means to spread their hate. Better to catch them in the act and prosecute them under Germany's hate speech laws on a platform that leads investigators straight to them, rather than deal with them once their hate boils into other more nefarious actions.

And yes, the phone company comparison is relevant. Facebook has almost 2 billion users in total, some 26 million of them in Germany. We all know that automated algorithms fail at this sort of thing, and there is absolutely no way they could ever hire enough moderators to keep up with this many users comments. They lack the ability to practically censor hate speech just as much as the phone company does.

Also, as to it not having any effect on Facebook outside of Germany, how would they make this separation? Its not as if the German Facebook site is a separate one. I have friends on my Facebook account who live in Germany. When would this censorship go into effect? What if someone makes hateful comment on my page, and a friend of mine from Germany argues with that person. Now the hate speech shows up in their feed in Germany. How do they apply the censorship now? Its a very complex web of interactions that transcend borders, making this type of regulation extremely difficult for a company like Facebook to enforce.
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Well, I imagine suspending accounts on a mass scale is an easier "solution" than prosecuting thousands of their own people.

You're right, they can't change people's mind. What they can do is disperse the crowd, so to speak. It worked for China, didn't it? Is it dangerous? You bet. Is it worse than watching their society descend into what it became just 70 years ago? I don't think so. Hate is contagious, I am sure you know that.
 
5icko said:
You've got blinders on.

It’s not Germany they wish to destroy, it's Western Capitalism. And the pathway to that end is to create chaos.

Get educated on history, old and new. Or... keep going along with what the Leftists are telling you:

White bad, color good.
Capitalism bad, communism good.
Climate skepticism bad, alarmism good.
Businesses bad, government good.
State media good, alt media bad.

Wake up and become part of the solution or remain part of the problem. Change is coming. And not the racist change Obongo brought.
Click to expand...

The economic powerhouse of Europe is engaged in a conspiracy to destroy capitalism? Are you even listening to yourself? It was the current leadership that catapulted them way ahead of everyone else on the continent. It makes no sense at all.

And yeah, you're projecting a lot.
 
5icko said:
You're willing to offer these people help? With whose money, yours? Are you sponsoring a Muslim Somali family to stay in your house?

Right.
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No, I am not. But I'd be willing to shed some money even if I don't have much.

What makes all of this super ugly is that the ones who destroyed the middle east - US and UK aren't willing to do shit. Nice jobs guys.
 
dgz said:
No, I am not. But I'd be willing to shed some money even if I don't have much.

What makes all of this super ugly is that the ones who destroyed the middle east - US and UK aren't willing to do shit. Nice jobs guys.
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Broke? Makes perfect sense. Blow hard liberals are always so generous with other people's money.

Mmmkay it's been fun bye.
 
5icko said:
Broke? Makes perfect sense. Blow hard liberals are always so generous with other people's money.

Mmmkay it's been fun bye.
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Yea, feel free to ignore me in the future. Jesus Christ.
 
dgz said:
Didn't run away. Your arguments make sense. Except I am willing to offer these people help.

You talked about enforcing borders, right? Meaning you're not not willing to give anything to help them, and I do.
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Hate speech prosecution in the West is selectively applied based on who the recipients of hate speech are. It flat out doesn't work in the real world. Just like communism flat out does not work in the real world because of human greed and corruption.

I talked about the bakery owners that were recipients of hate speech, and nothing was done to prosecute the perpetrators or help them the owners. In fact, the perpatrators were celebrated as heroes rather than criminals. You dismissed it as irrelevant, and then ran away when I called you out on having double standards.

If you want to give money to help people, fine, do it with your money, NOT MY TAX DOLLARS. Charities exist for a reason, and the government should not attempt to be a charitable entity.

dgz said:
Well, I imagine suspending accounts on a mass scale is an easier "solution" than prosecuting thousands of their own people.

You're right, they can't change people's mind. What they can do is disperse the crowd, so to speak. It worked for China, didn't it? Is it dangerous? You bet. Is it worse than watching their society descend into what it became just 70 years ago? I don't think so. Hate is contagious, I am sure you know that.
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Great, so you want to live in a censored country where having thoughts different from the party line is akin to being on death row. If you think their system is so great, why don't you go live there? I for one do not want to live in anything resembling George Orwell's 1984. Thought police should never exist.

Hate may be contagious, but it is spread by false information. The proper way to fight hate is with education and information, NOT censorship. And no, education should not be forced either, as forced education has the opposite effect. It has to be voluntary from their friends or family.
 
Tsumi said:
Hate speech prosecution in the West is selectively applied based on who the recipients of hate speech are. It flat out doesn't work in the real world. Just like communism flat out does not work in the real world because of human greed and corruption.

I talked about the bakery owners that were recipients of hate speech, and nothing was done to prosecute the perpetrators or help them the owners. In fact, the perpatrators were celebrated as heroes rather than criminals. You dismissed it as irrelevant, and then ran away when I called you out on having double standards.

If you want to give money to help people, fine, do it with your money, NOT MY TAX DOLLARS. Charities exist for a reason, and the government should not attempt to be a charitable entity.



Great, so you want to live in a censored country where having thoughts different from the party line is akin to being on death row. If you think their system is so great, why don't you go live there? I for one do not want to live in anything resembling George Orwell's 1984. Thought police should never exist.

Hate may be contagious, but it is spread by false information. The proper way to fight hate is with education and information, NOT censorship. And no, education should not be forced either, as forced education has the opposite effect. It has to be voluntary from their friends or family.
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I dismissed some of your comments as irrelevant because you and a few other were desperately trying to make it about the US, BLM, etc. Topic at hand, just like this one, had nothing to do with the US. How many times do I need to say this? Why do you insist on making it about the US and your tax dollars?

Get it through your head - I've never been across the Atlantic. Trying to involve me in such arguments is pointless.

As for me playing a PC bitch, well it's probably true. While there seem to be some crazy PC people, I am not one of them. Still, I've never met a single anti PC person that's willing to tolerate disgusting shit being thrown their way on a daily basis.

You see, extremes actions do call for extreme counter measures. Extremes suck.

I wish Germany good luck fighting the problem. I don't have a solution for curing hate. In fact, I don't think it has to be cured at all. Pretty sure it's best to maintain a balance between both extremes and only resort to each of them in desperate situations.
 
dgz said:
I dismissed some of your comments as irrelevant because you and a few other were desperately trying to make it about the US, BLM, etc. Topic at hand, just like this one, had nothing to do with the US. How many times do I need to say this? Why do you insist on making it about the US and your tax dollars?

Get it through your head - I've never been across the Atlantic. Trying to involve me in such arguments is pointless.

As for me playing a PC bitch, well it's probably true. While there seem to be some crazy PC people, I am not one of them. Still, I've never met a single anti PC person that's willing to tolerate disgusting shit being thrown their way on a daily basis.

You see, extremes actions do call for extreme counter measures. Extremes suck.

I wish Germany good luck fighting the problem. I don't have a solution for curing hate. In fact, I don't think it has to be cured at all. Pretty sure it's best to maintain a balance between both extremes and only resort to each of them in desperate situations.
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In that thread, you asked us if death threats were legal in our country. So yes, you made the US very relevant to the discussion.

The migrant issue is something that seeks global attention, which means US policy is very much involved. This is not Europe specific. As Europe (including Germany) and America do influence each other in politics, it is very relevant to discuss in America.

Additionally, technology is an area where physical borders are essentially meaningless. Decisions that affect multinational tech companies affect everyone. A nation doing one thing will set precedence in other nations, especially if they are allies.

Forced government censorship is never an answer or solution to anything. Only the owners of the website should get to say what they want and don't want on it, other than illegal activities (like child pornography, etc).

You cannot escape this discussion by claiming it has nothing to do with us. That is not a get out of jail free card. The core of this discussion is whether or not forced government censorship of social media platforms is acceptable. You have implied that you consider it to be acceptable. Others do not agree, and provided reasons why. Either you can rebut those reasons with your own, or admit you have no argument but still believe your position to be the right one. Or change/"clarify" your position.
 
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Germany is threatening to fine Facebook over hate speech, but they are okay with letting thousands of migrants commit crime, get free housing, free medical, free education, free benefits, ethnically cleanse the locals, build mosques, other crazy shts. Merkel and her liberal group welcomes migrants, but would never live among them. She and her minions needs to step down.
 
Nanogrip said:
Germany is threatening to fine Facebook over hate speech, but they are okay with letting thousands of migrants commit crime, get free housing, free medical, free education, free benefits, ethnically cleanse the locals, build mosques, other crazy shts. Merkel and her liberal group welcomes migrants, but would never live among them. She and her minions needs to step down.
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Because "political correctness" bullshit.
 
Nanogrip said:
Germany is threatening to fine Facebook over hate speech, but they are okay with letting thousands of migrants commit crime, get free housing, free medical, free education, free benefits, ethnically cleanse the locals, build mosques, other crazy shts. Merkel and her liberal group welcomes migrants, but would never live among them. She and her minions needs to step down.
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Wow, you dont need logic or reason or actual facts in the Misinformation Age.
 
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