1080 SLI vs Titan X Pascal

[chenw]

I voted TITAN X instead of 1080 and then ended up getting two 1080's. I'm such a tool.

I am pretty close to doing that as well, not being able to buy Titan X (nVidia hasn't released it here), and not being able to play some of my games due to lack of hardware (970 is NOT going to cut it even at 1440p), voices in the back of my head has been trying to convince me to get 1080 SLI and be done with it.

Removal of TW3 SLI profile put a MAJOR damper on that thought, and now the "just get a single 1080 and be done with it, or get 1070 and wait until volta" are speaking louder, but right now I would not accept any GPU that won't run maxed out TW3 on 60fps minimum at 1440p (1080 can only do 60fps average, IE not good enough).

Some of my moddable games also do not play nice with SLI, like Skyrim, so more damper is good, but damn, it's annoying me that I can't throw money at nVidia even when I wanted to.

 

[Hellstoaster]

I am pretty close to doing that as well, not being able to buy Titan X (nVidia hasn't released it here), and not being able to play some of my games due to lack of hardware (970 is NOT going to cut it even at 1440p), voices in the back of my head has been trying to convince me to get 1080 SLI and be done with it.

Removal of TW3 SLI profile put a MAJOR damper on that thought, and now the "just get a single 1080 and be done with it, or get 1070 and wait until volta" are speaking louder, but right now I would not accept any GPU that won't run maxed out TW3 on 60fps minimum at 1440p (1080 can only do 60fps average, IE not good enough).

Some of my moddable games also do not play nice with SLI, like Skyrim, so more damper is good, but damn, it's annoying me that I can't throw money at nVidia even when I wanted to.

I bought the first 1080 pretty close to release. I managed to get a PNY FE for MSRP so I thought it was an alright deal. Recently they dropped the prices on the PNY 1080 FE cards to $679.99 on Amazon (US.) I couldn't resist that lifetime warranty.

 

[chenw]

My prices here are a little higher, but it's also including taxes, the MSI Gaming X 8G is about $770, which is the second cheapest 1080 around (for comparison, FE is roughly $830), making the Gaming X 8G equivalent to, roughly, $650 compared to the $699 FE. The only other card that's cheaper than the MSI is Galax EX OC, which is priced at US$740, so I think the Gaming X is pretty good value, considering that it seems like MSI is charging for well over the FE in US.

It's a mighty pity that MSI doesn't sell the Armor OC version here though, Armor OC would save me a LOT of headaches should I choose to go SLI route (I need one card without a backplate out of convenience).

 

[cybereality]

I have GTX 1080 SLI in one computer and a Titan X in the other. I think it would be hard to say definitively which is better.

1080 SLI, for sure, gets you more FPS almost across the board. I have a G-Sync monitor on this machine, so there is no stuttering that I can notice. But, I do run into weird software glitches that may or may not be SLI related. So that is a concern. Most games I tried either work great or have no benefit, but there are sometimes (badly coded) games like Watch_Dogs where performance is worse with SLI enabled.

Titan X is more solid, no worrying about compatibility issues and performance is still great (but not as good as 1080 SLI). In this rig, it's a mITX cube, so I only had the option for one video card (and, yes, you can fit the Titan in an mITX cube, just barely).

To be honest, if you have $1,200 burning a hole in your pocket, you get more for your money with the 1080 SLI. When it's working, with the right games, the performance is killer. There will be some games that don't work, micro-stutter, or glitches, and you have to decide if you're willing to deal with that. I guess if you want no nonsense, then the Titan X is better.

 

[Trandana]

Couple of points

1. EMA still has not yet been realised in any games besides AoTS, currently NONE of the other DX12 supporting games support it, so basing off a purchase on a feature that hasn't even been seen, let alone proven themselves, is a bit foolhardy.

Plus, if EMA does take off, that's actually an argument AGAINST 1080 SLI, because if you upgrade, you will inevitably either replace both 1080's or replace at least one of them, and 1080 is less powerful than a Titan XP, which, if AoTS is any indication of how EMA works, would reduce the effectiveness of EMA.

2. Smoothness of 1 single GPU compared to SLI doesn't compare FPS between the two. You can't 'see' smoothness of a game from fps data, or even on a video. The post you quoted is saying about smoothness, while you countered with FPS, which one does not always equal to another.

3. You are saying Titan XP has the worst price to performance ratio of all GPU's, but that would depend on which GPU you are coming from. When you buy a GPU, you are not buying every fps the GPU churns out, you are actually buying the fps increase between the new and old GPU (EG if your GPU was playing a game on 30 fps, and your new GPU plays it on 50, you are paying for the 20 extra, not the whole 50, since you already have 30), so the actual price to perf between 1080 and Titan XP differ greatly depending on what GPU you already own.

4. You use your game suite to say whether or not SLI support is increasing, which is inherently incorrect, since not everyone has the same game library as you. I know off the top of my head, 3 games at least, do not support support SLI, one of which is Witcher 3 (latest update removed SLI profile), and a single 1080 is certainly NOT going to drive TW3 at 4k, to even being able to max out 1440p ('max out' here has the meaning of turning up all in-game graphics options to maximum and maintain a 60fps minimum, 1080 only manages 60fps average). Across all your games, not all games will utilise to the same degree, so whether SLI is better or not is game dependent.

Even in the article you quoted, if you checked the entire review, you will see that not all games scale SLI efficiently. Some do, others don't. In quite a number of games from Guru 3D's test suite, some of the games they tested on 1080 SLI has their FPS close to Titan XP, which would make Titan XP the better choice in those games as you remove any possibility of detecting SLI related microstutters, if any.

If you game dedicately on 4k or even 5k, 1080 SLI makes more sense, since games scale better on that resolution (See Thief), but it's MUCH more dependent on games to support SLI. If you happen to get a game that don't support SLI, then you are SoL.

Of course, everyone can say "then I won't play games that don't support SLI", which I say, fair enough, but some of us like games to dictate our hardware, not the other way round (playing games based on SLI support is letting hardware dictate your games).

For 1080p, neither 1080 SLI nor Titan XP makes sense, 1080 is about the most one should go. For 1440p, it's a total wash between 1080 SLI and Titan XP, given *my* game suite, Titan XP is a better choice since I have a number of games that don't like SLI, TW3 being THE major one. This, coupled with the fact that SLI scaling on 1440p is generally worse than on 4k, has me waiting on Titan XP being actually on sale where I live (nVidia has not started selling them here). 1080 doesn't cut it for me at 1440p, but 1080 SLI at 1440p is actually pretty close to Titan XP, which makes 1080 SLI a very shoddy purchase (general rule is, if the fps is similar between single GPU and SLI, SLI is a bad choice, at any fps).

TL;DR version

1. EMA is still currently a pipe dream, no games shows what EMA can or cannot do, what we do know from AoTS is that 1080 will be worse at EMA than Titan XP will be.

2. Smoothness cannot be seen from fps, or even videos because they don't record at the fps your GPU makes. FPS is a number, smoothness is an experience. Experience > numbers, unless if your only goal is E-Peen

3. Price/perf ratio depends on the DIFFERENCE between your current GPU and the GPU you are buying. You are not paying for all the performance of a GPU, you are paying for the performance INCREASE, which price/perf_increase depends HEAVILY on your current GPU. If P/P is all you need to base your purchase, then why are Maxwell Titan X's not jumping to 1070? 1070's P/P is MUCH higher than their Maxwell Titan X's. It's because the DIFFERENCE between Titan X and 1070, not the WHOLE of 1070.

4. Your game suite =/= the person next room, his games may or not may not support SLI. Some people like their games deciding their hardware, not the other way round.

SLI/Crossfire will most definitly come to DX12. The only reason games are not using crossfire or SLI yet is because dx12 is so new, and developers are still learning to code for it. I simply mentioned EMS because its an added extra that would be nice, and the fact that it is relatively hardware agnostic. SLI and Crossfire
gaming is not as popular as they hoped, but its not going away, not as far as two cards are concerned. Parallel computing is getting more popular not less. Going back to non sli days would be a step backwards. The benifit of sli is that you can buy one card, and then later a second as needed, as the price drops considerably. Its stupid not to. As an example, you can buy dual r9 290's for only $250 and still play most games at 4k. You have to turn some settings down, but it shows how incredible sli/crossfire can be given the right circumstances.

"you will inevitably either replace both 1080's or replace at least one of them,"
Yep, but the Titan xp is less future proof than the 1080's, it will soon not be able to handle 4k at 60hz. At that point you will need to buy a second, but here's the big problem, Titan cards never go down a lot in price, they always stay expensive. The old gen are still $800-$1000, unless you find a good used one. In contrast, the 1080's will drop in price faster. If you really have the money to blow and want the best, obsolutely go for the Titan and add a second later


"Smoothness of 1 single GPU compared to SLI doesn't compare FPS between the two. You can't 'see' smoothness of a game from fps data, or even on a video"

I know, that is why I posted to link showing FCAT data from 1080 sli.

"Titan XP is a better choice since I have a number of games that don't like SLI, TW3 being THE major one"

TW3 does do sli, you just need to use a different profile, its an easy fix


"Price/perf ratio depends on the DIFFERENCE between your current GPU and the GPU you are buying. You are not paying for all the performance of a GPU, you are paying for the performance INCREASE, which price/perf_increase depends HEAVILY on your current GPU. If P/P is all you need to base your purchase, then why are Maxwell Titan X's not jumping to 1070? 1070's P/P is MUCH higher than their Maxwell Titan X's. It's because the DIFFERENCE between Titan X and 1070, not the WHOLE of 1070"

We aren't talking about 1070's here, the OP asked about 1080sli vs titan xp, we are just trying to come to conclusion about that. I don't disagree with you 1070 is much better p/p but if you really want to start going down that road you would stick with AMD, and wait for Vega since the 490x will be better than a Titan xp.


"if you checked the entire review, you will see that not all games scale SLI efficiently. "

Huh? they all scaled beautifully, as far as gaming scaling goes. Maybe we are looking at different charts?

 

[chenw]

The games scale better at 4k across all games that support SLI.

If you looked at the 1440p figures, some games scales a lot worse.

I am using Thief as my example.

At 4k, Thief scales roughly 61%, but at 1440p that drops off to 35%, basically dropping to where Titan XP would be.

Farcry Primal, scales well in 4k, scaling disappears in 1440p, and becomes negative at 1080p.

Alien Isolation also scales a little worse at 1440p @ about 31%, but that game doesn't scale that well at 4k either.

Shadow of Mordor also scales better at higher resolutions, 48% at 1440p, 69% at 4k and 83% at 5k.

Hardline maintains high SLI scaling, but even it is affected by resolution (88% at 4k, 73% at 1440p and 61% at 1080p)

TPU's review of 1080 SLI also has the cards scaling better high 4k (~71% average for scaling games), but scaling significantly drops with lower resolution (1440p scales at ~45% average).

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1080_SLI/20.html

Even taking out the games that had no SLI scaling, 1440p scaling is a meager 45%, which is a hair short of what Titan XP can do at that resolution.

At 4k, no competition, 1080 SLI has higher framerates (unfortunately, Guru3D's FCAT graphs are all done in 1440p, rather than 4k, where games might be more prone to experiencing SLI related stutters due to lower overall framerates).

With regards to EMA, I believe you missed the point.

If you have SLI 1080, you have no choice but to replace one of them to get an upgrade in performance via EMA (not via SLI), and you are left with a weaker 1080 paired with a newer GPU.

With a Titan XP, you are less constrained as you can slot in the new card and off you go, you also pair the new card with a more powerful single GPU.

Yep, but the Titan xp is less future proof than the 1080's, it will soon not be able to handle 4k at 60hz. At that point you will need to buy a second, but here's the big problem, Titan cards never go down a lot in price, they always stay expensive. The old gen are still $800-$1000, unless you find a good used one. In contrast, the 1080's will drop in price faster. If you really have the money to blow and want the best, obsolutely go for the Titan and add a second later

That does not make sense whatsoever in the context of 1080 SLI vs Titan XP.

We can agree that a 1080 SLI owner time for upgrade comes, one generally have no choice but to replace BOTH of them at the same time (at least one if EMA is available), which means that dropping 1080 prices would work AGAINST you, and NEVER for you.generally would not be adding more 1080 cards to the system, mainly due to the diminishing returns of SLI, and not everyone has the necessary hardware to support 3 or 4 way SLI (or even if nVidia will continue drivers for it), so if we go 1080 SLI route, so when

On the other hand, Titan XP holds its value better, so yes, maybe going SLI with it later down the road is going to be quite expensive, but, if you get lucky and pickup a decently priced one, or if you decide to sell it, you stand to gain from it more than from 1080 SLI setup.

If one is ever considering going Titan XP SLI, it would actually be better to go on SLI straight away than to wait for Titan XP to come down, since they won't come down for a while, and not by an awful lot (unless Volta proves to be the second coming). 1080 is better suited for the buy one now and SLI later down the line routine due to its value depreciation.

 

[Ninjawithagun]

dang guy why are you so mad? do some donuts in a grassy area with the city in the background, kick up some dust, and ill be impressed if your overclock keeps you from dipping below 60 fps. mind you this is with a 5960x at 1600P (i gave up on 4K). i speak from personal experience as i had a titan xp and 2 ghz still wasn't cutting it.

No, you didn't own a Titan XP. Nice try, but no pics and it didn't happen. Too late to post as now as no one will believe your claim. Either that, or your Titan XP was defective. Mine works great and I am able to attain fantastic frame rates in every single game with all (or almost all settings maxed). Disable the useless AA when gaming in 4K and FPS jumps literally 30-50% - crazy! So, you should have exchanged your Titan and got one that actually worked correctly

 

[Ninjawithagun]

The basic point in this forum is being missed. People want to argue specific performance of a single Titan XP vs. GTX1080 SLI as the key point. Well folks, most of you have it all wrong. Maximum FPS is NOT the single measurement parameter. If you are a veteran gamer, then you should already know this! The main parameters of consideration are contained within actual real world gameplay. The bottom line is that a single Titan XP does this for you without the need to use two cards together in SLI. Also, some of you keep bringing up price point. And yes, on average you will spend $100-300 more for two GTX1080s vs. a single Titan XP. Gaming performance in the vast majority of games will not be as good as a single Titan XP when having to use SLI. I also own a single EVGA GTX1080 FTW Hybrid card in my second gaming system and have found out immediately that in order to play some games at Ultra settings, I have to turn down or off several settings, vs. my Titan easily achieves 30-80% better frame rates with all settings maxed. I play games regularly at UQHD and 4K/UHD resolutions and a single GTX1080 just can't handle it. Yes, two can do the job - albeit with all the issues that are created when using SLI. But why fuss with two cards to gain only a minor FPS increase (and not actual better gaming experience) when it all can be done with a single Titan XP card? Price is not the problem for me, SLI is the problem. The greatest level of true gaming performance (not just max FPS) can only be had with the Titan XP.

 

[dchobaby]

No, you didn't own a Titan XP. Nice try, but no pics and it didn't happen. Too late to post as now as no one will believe your claim. Either that, or your Titan XP was defective. Mine works great and I am able to attain fantastic frame rates in every single game with all (or almost all settings maxed). Disable the useless AA when gaming in 4K and FPS jumps literally 30-50% - crazy! So, you should have exchanged your Titan and got one that actually worked correctly

Right, i don't own a Titan XP. I own two. There's nothing wrong with either of them and they do work great. The point I am making is that they are (especially not 1 card), not the end-game, resurrection of christ that jen hsun wants you to believe they are. If you have a great experience with "fantastic" frame rates with "almost all" settings maxed, then that's great for you. But they are not without limits, and GTA has proven that. Not even at 1600p60 (read, not 4K).

Hehe

 

[Ninjawithagun]

Right, i don't own a Titan XP. I own two. There's nothing wrong with either of them and they do work great. The point I am making is that they are (especially not 1 card), not the end-game, resurrection of christ that jen hsun wants you to believe they are. If you have a great experience with "fantastic" frame rates with "almost all" settings maxed, then that's great for you. But they are not without limits, and GTA has proven that. Not even at 1600p60 (read, not 4K).

Hehe

View attachment 7651

Troller, why are you still posting? And why did you send a pic of Chinese garbage?

 

[dchobaby]

Troller, why are you still posting? And why did you send a pic of Chinese garbage?

I'm not trolling. Why don't you address my point instead of turning this into a pissing match about who has what hardware?

 

[Trandana]

The games scale better at 4k across all games that support SLI.

If you looked at the 1440p figures, some games scales a lot worse.

I am using Thief as my example.

At 4k, Thief scales roughly 61%, but at 1440p that drops off to 35%, basically dropping to where Titan XP would be.

Farcry Primal, scales well in 4k, scaling disappears in 1440p, and becomes negative at 1080p.

Alien Isolation also scales a little worse at 1440p @ about 31%, but that game doesn't scale that well at 4k either.

Shadow of Mordor also scales better at higher resolutions, 48% at 1440p, 69% at 4k and 83% at 5k.

Hardline maintains high SLI scaling, but even it is affected by resolution (88% at 4k, 73% at 1440p and 61% at 1080p)

TPU's review of 1080 SLI also has the cards scaling better high 4k (~71% average for scaling games), but scaling significantly drops with lower resolution (1440p scales at ~45% average).

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1080_SLI/20.html

Even taking out the games that had no SLI scaling, 1440p scaling is a meager 45%, which is a hair short of what Titan XP can do at that resolution.

At 4k, no competition, 1080 SLI has higher framerates (unfortunately, Guru3D's FCAT graphs are all done in 1440p, rather than 4k, where games might be more prone to experiencing SLI related stutters due to lower overall framerates).

With regards to EMA, I believe you missed the point.

If you have SLI 1080, you have no choice but to replace one of them to get an upgrade in performance via EMA (not via SLI), and you are left with a weaker 1080 paired with a newer GPU.

With a Titan XP, you are less constrained as you can slot in the new card and off you go, you also pair the new card with a more powerful single GPU.



That does not make sense whatsoever in the context of 1080 SLI vs Titan XP.

We can agree that a 1080 SLI owner time for upgrade comes, one generally have no choice but to replace BOTH of them at the same time (at least one if EMA is available), which means that dropping 1080 prices would work AGAINST you, and NEVER for you.generally would not be adding more 1080 cards to the system, mainly due to the diminishing returns of SLI, and not everyone has the necessary hardware to support 3 or 4 way SLI (or even if nVidia will continue drivers for it), so if we go 1080 SLI route, so when

On the other hand, Titan XP holds its value better, so yes, maybe going SLI with it later down the road is going to be quite expensive, but, if you get lucky and pickup a decently priced one, or if you decide to sell it, you stand to gain from it more than from 1080 SLI setup.

If one is ever considering going Titan XP SLI, it would actually be better to go on SLI straight away than to wait for Titan XP to come down, since they won't come down for a while, and not by an awful lot (unless Volta proves to be the second coming). 1080 is better suited for the buy one now and SLI later down the line routine due to its value depreciation.

"If you have SLI 1080, you have no choice but to replace one of them to get an upgrade in performance via EMA (not via SLI), and you are left with a weaker 1080 paired with a newer GPU."

Again, I was not using EMA as as argument for or against 1080 sli...lol just simply stating that multi gpu setups are a sure thing in DX12, so it shouldn't be discarded if you plan to run dx12.


"If one is ever considering going Titan XP SLI, it would actually be better to go on SLI straight away than to wait for Titan XP to come down, since they won't come down for a while, and not by an awful lot (unless Volta proves to be the second coming). 1080 is better suited for the buy one now and SLI later down the line routine due to its value depreciation."

For sure, that is the route I would go either way. However, who really wants to pay $2600 USD (~$3400 CDN!!!!) just for two graphics cards? I mean thats crazy, you can buy a great gaming rig for that money. Granted if I was making $100,000 + a year I would go for it lol but damn thats a lot when you consider that dual 1080's will handle the 60fps on highest resolution screens on the market today for less money. You could buy one 1080 now and one later, but then you wouldn't be maxing out 4k 60hz. My major problem with a Titan xp is that you pay $1200 for one, or you can pay $1400 for dual 1080's. At this point dual 1080's are decently better frames, but if you want to get better frames from your titan setup you have to pay an extra whopping $1200 (or $900 if you wait) which is an in-proportionate price to the performance you are getting out of it. But brings me to my next point:


"If you have SLI 1080, you have no choice but to replace one of them to get an upgrade in performance via EMA (not via SLI), and you are left with a weaker 1080 paired with a newer GPU."

Again, I was not using EMA as as argument for or against 1080 sli...lol just simply stating that multi gpu setups are a sure thing in DX12, so they shouldn't be discarded if you plan to run dx12. That being said...The above example could possibly benefit from running a combo of Titan XP with say a 1080 down the road in DX12 if EMA happened to benefit from the both of them. Then we might see the best of both worlds, and not have to kill the pocketbook so much. The AoTS multi gpu setups showed us that AMD and Nvidia can be friends so Nvidia and Nvidia should work just fine. I would be curious to see some benchmarks.



"At 4k, no competition, 1080 SLI has higher framerates"

Sorry, ya I guess I improperly assumed that anyone running dual 1080's or a Titan xp would be running at least 4k, but thats not really a good assumption since a lot of people like 1440 high refresh rates.

 

[Trandana]

The basic point in this forum is being missed. People want to argue specific performance of a single Titan XP vs. GTX1080 SLI as the key point. Well folks, most of you have it all wrong. Maximum FPS is NOT the single measurement parameter. If you are a veteran gamer, then you should already know this! The main parameters of consideration are contained within actual real world gameplay. The bottom line is that a single Titan XP does this for you without the need to use two cards together in SLI. Also, some of you keep bringing up price point. And yes, on average you will spend $100-300 more for two GTX1080s vs. a single Titan XP. Gaming performance in the vast majority of games will not be as good as a single Titan XP when having to use SLI. I also own a single EVGA GTX1080 FTW Hybrid card in my second gaming system and have found out immediately that in order to play some games at Ultra settings, I have to turn down or off several settings, vs. my Titan easily achieves 30-80% better frame rates with all settings maxed. I play games regularly at UQHD and 4K/UHD resolutions and a single GTX1080 just can't handle it. Yes, two can do the job - albeit with all the issues that are created when using SLI. But why fuss with two cards to gain only a minor FPS increase (and not actual better gaming experience) when it all can be done with a single Titan XP card? Price is not the problem for me, SLI is the problem. The greatest level of true gaming performance (not just max FPS) can only be had with the Titan XP.

" I also own a single EVGA GTX1080 FTW Hybrid card in my second gaming system and have found out immediately that in order to play some games at Ultra settings, I have to turn down or off several settings, vs. my Titan easily achieves 30-80% better frame rates with all settings maxed. "

.....why are you comparing a single 1080 to Titan XP? of course it will perform better....we are talking about two here., why even bring that up? And yes of course Max fps is not the only measurement, which is why I posted FCAT measurements also. FCAT showed that when using sli 1080 the frame time delivery DECREASED over using one card. That means that it took less time to render the frame and get them on screen than using a single card. In other words, less lag when using SLI than using one card! That is HUGELY important, and should not be overlooked!!
Also important is the MINIMUM frame rates, which increase over using a single Titan XP. As we can see from this graph, the frame delivery times are LOWER than a single card,
and yes has slightly more micro stutter but it is SO insignificant you would never notice it. Only frame delivery times/lag spikes above 25 Ms would ever be noticed. Frame times fro Nvidia cards tend to be
better than AMD times, especially when comparing SLI to Crossfire.

So bottom line:
1080 SLI =
+Higher max fps, higher Min fps, and lower lag. 166% better rendering performance than Titan XP
-Minor Microstutter, some games without SLI support.

Titan XP =
+Faster single card performance, minimal micro stutter, no need to worry about SLI compatability
-Almost double the price of single 1080, lower fps, lower min fps, more frame time lag

 

[Trandana]

Also forgot to mention, Titan XP does have more vram which is nice, but that is meant for workstation stuff it will never be utilized in gaming. (Unless you are dumb and turn on msaa 4-8x + ultra textures while playing at 4K)

 

[chenw]

"At 4k, no competition, 1080 SLI has higher framerates"

Sorry, ya I guess I improperly assumed that anyone running dual 1080's or a Titan xp would be running at least 4k, but thats not really a good assumption since a lot of people like 1440 high refresh rates.

Yeah, that's why I feel 1080 SLI has a bit of paradox going.

At 4k 1080 SLI scales better, but scales better in a region where microstutters could be more noticeable.

1440p alleviates microstutters due to higher framerates and thus reducing the effects of frametime spikes, but scaling is noticeably worse here, enough that a Titan XP would actually be a viable choice, given that the performance isn't terribly far apart at 1440p.

Perhaps the best middle ground for 1080 SLI is the 3440x1440 ultra-wide, high enough framerates, good enough scaling.

I wouldn't hold Titan XP's VRAM against it, since gamers are not really paying JUST for the VRAM (at least certainly not the same extent as, say 780ti to Titan Black or 980ti to Titan X, but it's not a terribly valid comparison), you are also paying for the performance, VRAM being a bonus.

Whether or not Titan XP is capable of using all that VRAM is debatable (like you said, "much AA, such textures, wow res" settings would have choked Titan XP before VRAM hit its bottleneck), but better more than less.

480 8GB and 480 4GB OTOH, would be more appropriate place for a VRAM debate than 1080 vs Titan XP.

 

[thesmokingman]

Too much nuttiness in this thread and from ppl who have little real world experience using mgpu for years.

 

[Trandana]

Yeah, that's why I feel 1080 SLI has a bit of paradox going.

At 4k 1080 SLI scales better, but scales better in a region where microstutters could be more noticeable.

1440p alleviates microstutters due to higher framerates and thus reducing the effects of frametime spikes, but scaling is noticeably worse here, enough that a Titan XP would actually be a viable choice, given that the performance isn't terribly far apart at 1440p.

Perhaps the best middle ground for 1080 SLI is the 3440x1440 ultra-wide, high enough framerates, good enough scaling.

I wouldn't hold Titan XP's VRAM against it, since gamers are not really paying JUST for the VRAM (at least certainly not the same extent as, say 780ti to Titan Black or 980ti to Titan X, but it's not a terribly valid comparison), you are also paying for the performance, VRAM being a bonus.

Whether or not Titan XP is capable of using all that VRAM is debatable (like you said, "much AA, such textures, wow res" settings would have choked Titan XP before VRAM hit its bottleneck), but better more than less.

480 8GB and 480 4GB OTOH, would be more appropriate place for a VRAM debate than 1080 vs Titan XP.

"Perhaps the best middle ground for 1080 SLI is the 3440x1440 ultra-wide,"
Yeah perhaps you are right, I haven't tried that res myself.

"1440p alleviates microstutters due to higher framerates and thus reducing the effects of frametime spikes, but scaling is noticeably worse here, enough that a Titan XP would actually be a viable choice, given that the performance isn't terribly far apart at 1440p."

Higher FPS has nothing to do with microstutter, and it can occur even when running @ 144+ fps. I havn't yet found FCAT measurements for 4K, but when I do I'll post them so we can test your theory to see if it truly causes more microstutter than @ 2k

I guess the answer for OP would be to choose the card based of the resolution you will be running at, the amount of workstation stuff you plan to be doing, and whether or not you are going to use VR (no vr games use sli yet).

 

[chenw]

My reasoning is that, if the framerates are high enough, any variation in frametimes that might result from SLI would still remain below perceptible levels, but if the framerates are middleground, there 'might' be times where microstutters could bring it to perceptible levels.

That's my takeaway from looking at FCAT analysis and the reviewer's interpretation of them anyway. I have never looked at Frametimes myself, no tools/software and too busy gaming.

 

[Dayaks]

I could see microstutter with 1080SLi on my 3440x1440. Drives me nuts.

Wife made me send the card back which I had no qualms with. I am single card from here on out.

 

[Trandana]

I could see microstutter with 1080SLi on my 3440x1440. Drives me nuts.

Wife made me send the card back which I had no qualms with. I am single card from here on out.

Lol damn good to know. Were you using an HB bridge out of curiosity? Because the higher resolution you go, the higher the need for bandwidth. I have dual r9 290's that I used to play 4k with when they were still formidable for that res. I never experienced microstutter, so now I am wondering if I bought newer dual Nvidia cards what the outcome would be on my particular rig. If I do I'll certainly let you all know

 

[Dayaks]

Lol damn good to know. Were you using an HB bridge out of curiosity? Because the higher resolution you go, the higher the need for bandwidth. I have dual r9 290's that I used to play 4k with when they were still formidable for that res. I never experienced microstutter, so now I am wondering if I bought newer dual Nvidia cards what the outcome would be on my particular rig. If I do I'll certainly let you all know

I did have a HB bridge.

I found nVidia multiGPU to be better than AMD crossfire. I am a huge fan of single card... If I had known the Titan XP was coming so soon I would have jumped on that.

I am at 3440x1440 60Hz. People have completely difference sensitivities to stutter and frame rates. You can get used to lower FPS or stutter. Also how close to your screen makes a huge difference and I think that is how consoles get away with 30FPS IMO.

 

[chenw]

how close to your screen makes a huge difference and I think that is how consoles get away with 30FPS IMO.

Doesn't most TV's come with behind the smoothing that makes low framerates things like movies smoother than they actually are? Or would that work against consoles?

 

[Trandana]

Doesn't most TV's come with behind the smoothing that makes low framerates things like movies smoother than they actually are? Or would that work against consoles?

Yes many do! I have a newer 4k Samsung with something called AutoMotion plus, HOWEVER, it only works on video that has already been processed by the TV's cpu. Since input from your PC, or Xbox is simply just inputting straight to the screen it can't use the MotionPlus feature. However, even if you could, you wouldn't want it. The added lag due to processing makes the lag on most 4k tv's worse than it already should be. But you are right, it does work great with
movies, Netflix etc I use it all the time for that.

 

[Trandana]

I did have a HB bridge.

I found nVidia multiGPU to be better than AMD crossfire. I am a huge fan of single card... If I had known the Titan XP was coming so soon I would have jumped on that.

I am at 3440x1440 60Hz. People have completely difference sensitivities to stutter and frame rates. You can get used to lower FPS or stutter. Also how close to your screen makes a huge difference and I think that is how consoles get away with 30FPS IMO.

Hmmm interesting. Did you have AA cranked along with textures? What cpu?

I just found something interesting at Techpowerup:

"A single frame at 4K resolution is 32 MB (3840x2160x4 bytes per pixel). At 30 frames per second, that's 960 MB, which is just shy of the 1 GB/s bandwidth classic SLI [bridge] provides. This means that SLI HB provides no benefit until you exceed that limit, which happens at higher resolutions, like 5K or 4K@120. However, even when bandwidth is exceeded, you will not run at reduced framerates; rather, you will see stuttering on the monitor: the second GPU sends its frame over the SLI bus, but it will arrive too late to be sent to the monitor because of bandwidth limitations - it has to wait its turn, which is two refreshes, which causes the frames to be displayed in the wrong order, something you see as stuttering."

So basically this means you must be careful of the settings you turn up when using high resolutions in SLI If you crank too many textures and AA you will use more than the bandwidth that your bridge is capable of. If you use the HB bridge
it will be far less of a problem, but it will still have its limitations. Each game will be different in the bandwidth it uses, and the settings you have turned on. If you are playing a game at 4k with a lot of AA turned on, you are NOT playing at 4k. Depending on the type of AA used, you are generally rendering at higher resolutions and then scaling it back down again to fit the screen and remove jagged edges, so keep this in mind!

-The flimsy ribbon bridges provide the worst bandwidth and should not be used for 4k or high AA usage
-Followed by the hard connectors, often bundled motherboards like MSI, ASUS and Gigabyte. These provide better bandwidth and should be okay for 4k without using a lot of AA and textures
-And finally the HB bridge which provides the most bandwidth, enabling gaming at 5k or 4k 120hz


But if you are still getting stutter with an HB even at 3440 x 1440 I wonder what else is going on

 

[eclypse]

I could see microstutter with 1080SLi on my 3440x1440. Drives me nuts.

Wife made me send the card back which I had no qualms with. I am single card from here on out.

I've had stuttering with just a single 1080 card at 1440 164hz. Was the other night while testing just 1 card as there's a known hardware problem with the evga ftw 1080 cards. Could not get it smooth surfing firestrike. Like every second a hard stutter.

Finally I updated win 10 to the anniversary edition and installed the newest Nvidia drivers and it was smooth again.. no idea what it was.. I have even a g-sync monitor as well. Frame rate was upper 80s.

 

[chenw]

Hmmm interesting. Did you have AA cranked along with textures? What cpu?

I just found something interesting at Techpowerup:

"A single frame at 4K resolution is 32 MB (3840x2160x4 bytes per pixel). At 30 frames per second, that's 960 MB, which is just shy of the 1 GB/s bandwidth classic SLI [bridge] provides. This means that SLI HB provides no benefit until you exceed that limit, which happens at higher resolutions, like 5K or 4K@120. However, even when bandwidth is exceeded, you will not run at reduced framerates; rather, you will see stuttering on the monitor: the second GPU sends its frame over the SLI bus, but it will arrive too late to be sent to the monitor because of bandwidth limitations - it has to wait its turn, which is two refreshes, which causes the frames to be displayed in the wrong order, something you see as stuttering."

So basically this means you must be careful of the settings you turn up when using high resolutions in SLI If you crank too many textures and AA you will use more than the bandwidth that your bridge is capable of. If you use the HB bridge
it will be far less of a problem, but it will still have its limitations. Each game will be different in the bandwidth it uses, and the settings you have turned on. If you are playing a game at 4k with a lot of AA turned on, you are NOT playing at 4k. Depending on the type of AA used, you are generally rendering at higher resolutions and then scaling it back down again to fit the screen and remove jagged edges, so keep this in mind!

-The flimsy ribbon bridges provide the worst bandwidth and should not be used for 4k or high AA usage
-Followed by the hard connectors, often bundled motherboards like MSI, ASUS and Gigabyte. These provide better bandwidth and should be okay for 4k without using a lot of AA and textures
-And finally the HB bridge which provides the most bandwidth, enabling gaming at 5k or 4k 120hz


But if you are still getting stutter with an HB even at 3440 x 1440 I wonder what else is going on

Texture data does not go through the SLI bridge, at 1GB/s, it's FAR too slow.

The data is actually the completed picture, which is the same size regardless of picture complexity (assuming no compression of the image).

 

[Azphira]

^^SLI works with the end of the bridge hanging off like that? That's like an antenna for signal pickup.
That poor top card won't be getting much air. Small motherboard form factor, I know, but man... how are your temps?

I put on an HB bridge, stole a back bracket from an old radeon 4870, and made a cooler for it.

So far the bottom card is 57c, the top card is 58c under load

 

[cybereality]

That's some ghetto MacGyver junk right there. I like it.

 

[Azphira]

That's some ghetto MacGyver junk right there. I like it.

I had to, nothing like it exists for sale.



Well they do have these but they don't shift the fans over one slot to pull air in through the back slot.

However I could move it over one on the bracket and drill a grid of holes on it.


Screw it, ghetto MacGyver ftw.

 

[Trandana]

I follow some of this guys videos, and he posts his badass 4 way Titan XP sli gaming videos. He seems to use Nvidia Inspector and plays with the sli profiles and claims to get 99-100% scaling
on all cards, with no discernible microstuttering. Its pretty impressive.

 

[Azphira]

After heavier testing this is where the cards stay about. But since the cards maintain temp target, I guess all I am doing is taking strain off the blowers in the cards. At least the top card isn't reaching target faster than the bottom card anymore.

 

[spine]

I put on an HB bridge, stole a back bracket from an old radeon 4870, and made a cooler for it.

So far the bottom card is 57c, the top card is 58c under load

What fans are those, can I ask?

Cheers.

 

[Azphira]

What fans are those, can I ask?

Cheers.

These, I bought them years ago though when the AMD 64 came out.

https://www.amazon.com/Panaflow-80mm-0-1A-Speed-FBA08A12L/dp/B00U27QDCK

 

[5150Joker]

" I also own a single EVGA GTX1080 FTW Hybrid card in my second gaming system and have found out immediately that in order to play some games at Ultra settings, I have to turn down or off several settings, vs. my Titan easily achieves 30-80% better frame rates with all settings maxed. "

.....why are you comparing a single 1080 to Titan XP? of course it will perform better....we are talking about two here., why even bring that up? And yes of course Max fps is not the only measurement, which is why I posted FCAT measurements also. FCAT showed that when using sli 1080 the frame time delivery DECREASED over using one card. That means that it took less time to render the frame and get them on screen than using a single card. In other words, less lag when using SLI than using one card! That is HUGELY important, and should not be overlooked!!
Also important is the MINIMUM frame rates, which increase over using a single Titan XP. As we can see from this graph, the frame delivery times are LOWER than a single card,
and yes has slightly more micro stutter but it is SO insignificant you would never notice it. Only frame delivery times/lag spikes above 25 Ms would ever be noticed. Frame times fro Nvidia cards tend to be
better than AMD times, especially when comparing SLI to Crossfire.

So bottom line:
1080 SLI =
+Higher max fps, higher Min fps, and lower lag. 166% better rendering performance than Titan XP
-Minor Microstutter, some games without SLI support.

Titan XP =
+Faster single card performance, minimal micro stutter, no need to worry about SLI compatability
-Almost double the price of single 1080, lower fps, lower min fps, more frame time lag

What good are improved frametimes when you have those nasty microstutter spikes that thief clearly shows? That's a good case for avoiding SLI, not embracing it. You still haven't shown that 1080 SLI consistently gets higher min fps either. And you forget that a lot of recent games don't support SLI and no dx 12 game does.

PS I've used SLI the past 5 or so years and it's always had perceptible microstutter. It was somewhat improved with my last pair of Titan X but was still there. It's just not worth getting anymore unless you run >4K.

 

[eclypse]

I think I'm being forced out of runing sli cards. Pretty sad.

I've had a pair of zotac 1080 amp edition cards. Single good cooling but once I added the 2nd with 1 slot spacing in between they were cooking eachother. Wanted to water cool them but no blocks out for anything other then fe cards.

Exchanged for 2 pny 1080 fe cards with the idea to water cool them. Ran good and cooled good but with 85-100% fans. Pny don't want you water cooling so I exchanged them for evga.

2x evga 1080 fe cards with plans on water cooling. Overclocked great but the small single 8 pin power connector limits the power to 185watts. The card clocks with dance up and down basicly constantly. If it's not from heat it's from power! So no thanks.. like that on all fe cards.

Then bought 2 evga ftw 1080 hybrids. Those I thought were perfect. Hybrid cooling for only $30 more over a fe card! No spending $125 for ea water block and another $34 for the bridge and another $34 for back plate.

In the end.. there should be a recall on the registration and hybrid evga 1080 ftw cards.

Evga states a small amount of cards have a hardware issue that's been found that will make the cards fan go 100% and the screen go black!

Happends on one of the 2 I have.. had it happen atleast 4 times.

Bought them from evga so I either send the one back free cross ship or return both cards. Members have said the new card they got back is clocked lower.. yuck.

So now I don't know what direction to go!

Single titan??? Evga classified sli with home made water cooling or order blocks for it down the road?

I've been going threw this upgrade phase for prob over 2 months now. The wife is sick of it and I'm about done myself.

 

[5150Joker]

Get a single Titan X and forget about 1080 SLI.

 

[eclypse]

I just might! Just gota order a water block for it as well. Though should see how loud the fan is first at like 80% or so.

 

[5150Joker]

I just might! Just gota order a water block for it as well. Though should see how loud the fan is first at like 80% or so.

It's loud at 80% but if you game with headphones then it isn't an issue.

 

[cybereality]

Thing is a jet engine, but as 5150Joker says you won't hear it with headphones.

 

[eclypse]

I don't use headphones.. it would be water cooled if I choose that path.

Still back and forth.. watched a bunch more reviews last night and leaning back to sli 1080s again. $500 more then a 1080 for 20+% seems high. 2x 1080s will destroy it in 1440 in the games I want to play. It's ruff.