Legendary Apple Engineer Turned Down For Genius Bar Job

[HardOCP News]

It's pretty damn sad that a famous Apple engineer, the one responsible for the company's shift to Intel processors, can't get a job at a genius bar. Who cares about your qualifications, you're an old white guy...denied. And I thought Apple was all inclusive and all that crap.

I’m lucky enough to get my tech support from JK Scheinberg, the engineer at Apple who led the effort that moved the Mac to Intel processors. A little restless after retiring in 2008, at 54, he figured he’d be a great fit for a position at an Apple store Genius Bar, despite being twice as old as anyone else at the group interview. “On the way out, all three of the interviewers singled me out and said, ‘We’ll be in touch,’ ” he said. “I never heard back.”

 

[Eiolon]

While I think it is safe to say there could be other reasons for him not being hired, but isn't there even a remote possibility that he should not be working on the front lines with customers? At my job, we have people who work the front lines and in the back. Most that work in the back, you don't dare put in the front. Very few (myself included) are very well at both because we started in the front and worked our way back. Many that work only in the back can be genius' at their job, no doubt, but have zero customer service skills and zero ability to speak in laymen terms and may not be very personable.

 

[MavericK]

Vastly over qualified maybe? Or just no customer service experience?

 

[nightfly]

First, isn't using the word 'genius' at that kind of job more than just a little pretentious?

Second, perhaps the engineer was 'visually challenged'. You know, doesn't present the image of what they want an apple employee to look like. For apple, it seems, image is far more important than function.
Then again, engineers aren't exactly known for their great people skills.

 

[Gorankar]

Maybe he wasn't a proper culture fit.
Nope, it was likely ageism.

 

[jbltecnicspro]

In my opinion, he needs to be applying elsewhere - somewhere more suited for his qualifications. He's done his work, he's had his time under the sun. It's time to let someone else start their career. Sure, he can bring some good experience to the table, but that's not exactly what the folks at the genius bar are hired to do. They're hired to be first line support, and if something more technical is needed, they ship it to Apple.

Folks like this are taking away starter jobs for the younger generation (because frankly, that's all a genius bar tech is - it's an entry-level, starting position). I've been on hiring panels where an older person was picked because of all their experience, for a position that was fucking mindless. Me? I fought for the young people because it was a good way to start their career and get work experience. I thought it was unfair that the older people had the edge simply because they lived for more years (and thus had the opportunity to gain more work experience). Especially since the job itself required only half a brain.

I'm all for fighting ageism, but there's always two sides of the coin.

 

[gxp500]

Then again, engineers aren't exactly known for their great people skills.

Bingo

 

[Gorankar]

Genius bar is a retail position, with some minor "show people how to use the product", not some super help desk. They are basically your typical ATT outlet store employee. There is nothing to graduate to from there really, unless retail management is what you are looking for.

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Genius bar is a retail solution, not some super help desk. There is nothing to graduate to from there really, unless retail management is what you are looking for.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[thesmokingman]

What? 54 yr old doesn't qualify as hipster?

 

[dgz]

First, isn't using the word 'genius' at that kind of job more than just a little pretentious?

Second, perhaps the engineer was 'visually challenged'. You know, doesn't present the image of what they want an apple employee to look like. For apple, it seems, image is far more important than function.
Then again, engineers aren't exactly known for their great people skills.

 

[TechLarry]

His age. I'd sue the pants off them.

 

[Methadras]

First, isn't using the word 'genius' at that kind of job more than just a little pretentious?

Ummm, Apple? lulz.

 

[nutzo]

Maybe he wasn't a proper culture fit.
Nope, it was likely ageism.

Same thing.

An old white guy just doesn't fit that trendy apple image.

And yes, other companies have been sued (and lost) when they didn't higher someone that didn't fit the image the company wanted.

However, since he is not part of some protected minority, I doubt he could win a lawsuit. Old white guys are one of the few groups that companies can legally discriminate against.
He should go apply at the local hardware store, where old white guys fit the company image.

 

[Exavior]

The illegal answer to this is the younger person is a better choice as you are not sure how long the retired person would want to keep working since they are just doing this out of boredom.

More legal answers. The person could be overqualified and as such you are afraid they will get bored and take another job because of that, leaving you having to rehire again. Might not be qualified at all to work with customers. Given that he retired 8 years ago might not have much experience with current systems. If everyone else is 20 - 30, might just not be a good fit for the team (which can be spun to be less about age and more about personality). Even more so with an background in engineering.

You could be a coder for OS X, that doesn't mean that you know anything about trouble shooting. Back when I was in college there were many people in my computer science classes that could code just fine, but didn't know how to troubleshoot pc issues or install / upgrade their OS. Those are very different areas. I don't expect an ob/gyn to be able to do brain surgery even though they went to med school. So it is very possible that he just wasn't skilled enough to actually do the job. Not saying he couldn't learn, but that doesn't mean that he has past experience.

What? 54 yr old doesn't qualify as hipster?

He was 54 back in 2008 when he retired. That would make him around 62 now (unsure of retire date, didn't read the article so not sure if in that)

 

[buhbuhfet]

sometimes legendary just ain't good enough

 

[Shintai]

What makes him qualified to work in a bar?

 

[dgz]

Same thing.

An old white guy just doesn't fit that trendy apple image.

And yes, other companies have been sued (and lost) when they didn't higher someone that didn't fit the image the company wanted.

However, since he is not part of some protected minority, I doubt he could win a lawsuit. Old white guys are one of the few groups that companies can legally discriminate against.
He should go apply at the local hardware store, where old white guys fit the company image.

Heh, I'd imagine old minority guys are having it much worse. I am honestly surprised you're not flat out saying what you really mean. Then again, maybe you do and I just need to use paypal to find out.

 

[Insula Gilliganis]

I doubt LEGENDARY Woz could get a job at the "Genius Bar" either..

Being "legendary" in one thing doesn't always transfer over to something else. I love how the term "legendary" has been watered down.. perhaps we can thank Barney for that..

This "hyperbole" of the word "legendary" reminds me of when PCWorld hired ex-MaximumPC employee Gordon Mah Ung and his bio there now reads..

One of founding fathers of hardcore tech reporting, Gordon has been covering PCs and components since 1998.

Apparently the 20+ years of "tech reporting" before 1998 was SOFTCORE!! But when Gordon arrived it went from X to XXX!! Read how I laughed and scorned them here

 

[M76]

Heh, I'd imagine old minority guys are having it much worse. I am honestly surprised you're not flat out saying what you really mean. Then again, maybe you do and I just need to use paypal to find out.

I think the real racists are the people who think that being white is a privilege.

 

[dgz]

I think the real racists are the people who think that being white is a privilege.

Being white in a majority white country is not a disadvantage.

 

[Seelenlos]

The illegal answer to this is the younger person is a better choice as you are not sure how long the retired person would want to keep working since they are just doing this out of boredom.

I don't think that is true in retail. When I worked retail the turnover was extremely high. They only job requirement for getting hired was if you could fill the hours. Knowledge was a bonus but not a requirement. I'd say less than twenty percent of the people stayed for more than a year. Five years latter there were only two people left in the store that I knew from my time there and one was the security guard.

Apple may have a different environment but the people are still paid about the same from what I can find and are replaceable.

 

[5150Joker]

I think the real racists are the people who think that being white is a privilege.

Brock Turner? You don't call that white privilege? Imagine if he was a minority.

 

[Satoru]

Lets assume he's entirely qualified. He's been the CTO of a game company so lets again assume people skills isn't a problem. He's got a consulting firm so again he can probably talk your ears off.

But think about it from the store's perspective

* Why is the head engineer of Apple applying here?
* Used to be the CIO of a game company?
* Geeuzs is Tim Cook going to come over and talk to the guy?
* Are we going to have media people swarming at our store?

Do you think Woz would get accepted at the genius bar? Hell no. Because no one wants anyone that 'high profile' at their store. Maybe you know, someone realized who the hell this guy was and realized it was probably a bad idea to hire a high profile person into a retail position.

I would NOT want the baggage associated with someone that high profile at the retail store either. Its not about his qualifications, or his age. No one would want Mark Zuckerberg there. No one would want Woz. No one would want Kim Kardashian. Its about what happens because they're in the store.

 

[nutzo]

Being white in a majority white country is not a disadvantage.

Tell that to white college students that where denied admittance to the college of their choice, while lower scoring minorities where admitted instead, all for the sake of diversity.

 

[GlowingGhoul]

Heh, I'd imagine old minority guys are having it much worse. I am honestly surprised you're not flat out saying what you really mean. Then again, maybe you do and I just need to use paypal to find out.

I'd love to hear you say what "you really mean" regarding white people, but you and I both know you're too cowardly to do so, right?

 

[GlowingGhoul]

Brock Turner? You don't call that white privilege? Imagine if he was a minority.

Imagine if he was a minority? I guess he would have been given a pass, cast as the lead in "Birth of a Nation", brought his co-rapist on board the movie cast (what are friends for), while his white rape victim commits suicide after years of torment.

It's depressing how "feelings" and myths have been given precedence over facts and reality.

 

[dgz]

I'd love to hear you say what "you really mean" regarding white people, but you and I both know you're too cowardly to do so, right?

Isn't that a cliché. I am white

 

[dgz]

Tell that to white college students that where denied admittance to the college of their choice, while lower scoring minorities where admitted instead, all for the sake of diversity.

Sorry to hear that. Is this how things work in general?

 

[GlowingGhoul]

Isn't that a cliché. I am white

What makes you think I didn't think you were white? Some of the most vile, hate filled racial rhetoric from BLM has come from their self-loathing white liberal "allies" like you. NAACP chapter head Rachael Dolezal and BLM founder Shaun King are just two examples of white people who've followed you so far off the deep end they "identify" as black, apparently finding the shame of living in white skin too much to bear.


Justice isn't achieved by putting anyone at a disadvantage because of the color of their skin, which is precisely what the affirmative action policies you support do.

 

[Ducman69]

Many that work only in the back can be genius' at their job, no doubt, but have zero customer service skills and zero ability to speak in laymen terms and may not be very personable.

Possible, but its far more likely that they simply hire based on image, that same as they wouldn't hire him at Abercrombie and Fitch because "old white guy" just isn't the image they want to project. Had he dressed like a gender bending hipster though, with leggings and fringe boots, with a giant scarf and epic beard, he probably would have had a better chance of being considered.

There's a reason Apple paid a fortune for Beats by Dre, and it wasn't rights to the technology, but the image they were buying.

 

[M76]

Brock Turner? You don't call that white privilege? Imagine if he was a minority.

Ask any white bum on the street about his white privilege. Right, there is no such thing. Brock Turner had two priviliges. Being a rich spoiled brat, and being able to afford an ace lawyer. Neither has anything to do with skin color.

 

[GlowingGhoul]

Ask any bum on the street about his white privilege. Right, there is no such thing. Brock Turner had two priviliges. Being a rich spoiled brat, and being able to afford an ace lawyer. Neither has anything to do with skin color.

His lawyer still wasn't OJ "kill the white bitch" Simpson good, but there's rich and RICH.

 

[GlowingGhoul]

Had he dressed like a gender bending hipster though, with leggings and fringe boots, with a giant scarf and epic beard, he probably would have had a better chance of being considered.

.

Man-buns are the key to employment as a white male:

 

[M76]

Being white in a majority white country is not a disadvantage.

Congratulations. You won the "say nothing, but make it sound very enlightened" prize.

Having a specific skin color, is neither an advantage or a disadvantage. It becomes an advantage / disadvantage if you have to deal with a racist. Depending on what skin color that specific racist hates. And nowadays you can run into just as many racists who hates whites, as many hate blacks. It's even taught in school that whites oppress minorities.

And the ones being hurt most by this idiocy are the minority students indoctrinated by this nonsense. How can they become successful, if they're being told that all their problems are caused by some invisible unfightable enemy called institutional racism. So they shouldn't even try better, their bad grades are white peoples fault.

The worst life lesson you can teach a child is that his problems are caused by other people's success, and that they're powerless to do well.

Isn't that the very definition of racism? That black people don't have the power to do well?

One more thing: If whites always oppress minorities how come asians do so well? They outperform every other race in earnings and college, yet they're a minority too, no? So how come they're not oppressed by the evil white majority? Or is there also an asian privilige in existence?

 

[Staples]

Not many of these engineer types are exactly people people but even if he was, he is too old.

Ageism is a real thing and it seems to be getting worse. I am 35 and worried that I my employability potential will be diminishing shortly.

 

[Ur_Mom]

I'm sure age was part of it. The rest is like others mentioned - most engineers aren't good at the front desk type stuff. Can he schmooze the customer? I couldn't. I can take no for an answer. I can sell a cheaper product that does the job just as well. I can tell them about alternatives... Not a good salesman.

I doubt the higher ups at my company would do well in the cellar or the warehouse or even retail. Great, smart people. But, they'd suck at the entry level day to day stuff. Nothing to do with age or anything. Just the way the talent works.

 

[Ducman69]

Depending on what skin color that specific racist hates. And nowadays you can run into just as many racists who hates whites, as many hate blacks. It's even taught in school that whites oppress minorities.

Its not always about hate, sometimes its simply about lawsuits or ideology.

There are SJW types for example, of which Apple stores tend to have quite a few, that believe that white people are inherently oppressors and non-whites are inherently oppressed... ignoring the white homeless guy they stepped over on the subway to go watch a movie with Jayden Smith in it, who was born with a golden spoon in his mouth. As such, they give preferential treatment to non-white males to try and "balance the scales".

Regarding the lawsuits and SJW complaint defense, particularly if they already have too many whites and asians (aka honorary white) males in management positions, they may then try to pad their numbers with minorities in positions in retail stores that are high visibility to the end-user, which show that "Apple = Diverse" since that's the face of the company, and no company ever has been chastised for being TOO diverse (aka non-white male).

 

[lcpiper]

Folks like this are taking away starter jobs for the younger generation (because frankly, that's all a genius bar tech is - ..........................

You were running along fine then you stumped it.

Think it through. By leaving his top of the heap job, he has allowed a senior man to move up, and a journeyman to fill the senior's position, and an intermediate to take the Journeyman's, and a new guy to move into a solid intermediate spot and a starter to get his foot in the door with a promising future at a company offering long term benefits. That old guy isn't taking anything away from anyone, he's stepping aside into something comfortable and letting six other guys take a step up on the ladder.

 

[lcpiper]

The illegal answer to this is the younger person is a better choice as you are not sure how long the retired person would want to keep working since they are just doing this out of boredom.

Why do you think he is doing this out of boredom?

I'm 54, Social Security doesn't kick in until 62 at the earliest, but I am so tired of working at the tip of the spear. I have been grinding it one way or another for 40 years and I still have 6 to go. Yes, I started in construction at 14 years old. I was driving and going to the bars at 16. I'm a tired guy. I know my job too good. Like I can predict the future too good. And here I am with six years left to "pad" my retirement. I'm not bored, I'm worn the fuck out and really, how much more am I going to put away in the next six years? How much more do I need? How much more can I take?

If I leave my job for something else I am not taking a position away from anyone. I am just moving to another spot in front of the trough cause someone else will take my spot and on down the line until you get to the bottom where some starter guy will start his internship or whatever on a path to what I am leaving.

Don't worry, with any luck you'll get there too.