DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

dondan If you have not already done this, I would consider posting links to your site and this HardForum thread on the Dan A4 Kickstarter. So many people are asking the same questions in regards to cpu cooling especially. I have tried to make it easy for the DAN A4 backers by linking them to a chart of your second cpu cooling test (including the CryOrig C7) while giving them a brief analysis as to why the C7 did best. In addition, I gave them the link to this hardforum thread, so hopefully there will be less redundant questions being asked on your KickStarter page.
 
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Well! After a deep dive into the SF600 and the SX700 it looks like I am going to wait until the last minute to buy either (or just go with the SF450) since both appear to have funky fan profiles (for now).
 
spda242 said:
ASUS Z170I PRO GAMING
Intel Core i7 6700 3,4 GHz 8MB + Cryorig C7
Corsair 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 3600MHz CL18 Vengeance LPX Black
Corsair SF450 450W
Samsung 950-series PRO 512GB M.2 NVMe
Asus Nvidia 1080 Strix (Non OC)
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As I said been thinking about 6700 since I want the system reasonable quiet but do we have any idea how much more noise a 6700K (non OC) would make? Cryorig C7 seem to speced for managing that at least or will the Strix 1080 most likely be the loudest component anyway? (I been using it a little bit in my old Prodigy case and it seem to be quite quiet).
 
spda242 said:
As I said been thinking about 6700 since I want the system reasonable quiet but do we have any idea how much more noise a 6700K (non OC) would make? Cryorig C7 seem to speced for managing that at least or will the Strix 1080 most likely be the loudest component anyway? (I been using it a little bit in my old Prodigy case and it seem to be quite quiet).
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I'm running almost the same config you plan on using :D It's great although I can assure you that the C7 with my non-OCed 6700K is certainly louder than the Strix 1080.
 
spda242 said:
As I said been thinking about 6700 since I want the system reasonable quiet but do we have any idea how much more noise a 6700K (non OC) would make? Cryorig C7 seem to speced for managing that at least or will the Strix 1080 most likely be the loudest component anyway? (I been using it a little bit in my old Prodigy case and it seem to be quite quiet).
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I currently have a 6700K (non-OC), using a NH-l9i, Corsair SF600, integrated graphics only, in a Nano S case. With a custom silent profile on case and CPU fans in UEFI, I can't hear a thing when gaming or encoding videos which taxes the CPU 100%. But this case is noise dampened, and with rather cool air surrounding the SF600. If I add a graphics card I would probably hear it. I am fairly sure the same hardware in the A4 would be quite a bit louder. The NH-L9i is barely enough to cool the 6700K quietly. But it's surprisingly quiet up until 1500rpm or so.
 
I noticed there was a gpu hole gap on the back of the case in Luke's video. dondan will it be this way as well on the final shipped A4 case?
 
Im thinking of picking up some dust filters for the side panels..as I understand, aluminium is not magnetic so i will just tape them on the inside...but does anyone know what the dimensions of the ventilation holes are on each of the side panels? Would a 240mm dual fan type filter be able to completely cover the side panel vents? Or would I need a custom filter size?
 
Blackreplica said:
Im thinking of picking up some dust filters for the side panels..as I understand, aluminium is not magnetic so i will just tape them on the inside...but does anyone know what the dimensions of the ventilation holes are on each of the side panels? Would a 240mm dual fan type filter be able to completely cover the side panel vents? Or would I need a custom filter size?
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I definitely would love to put dust filters on the vents. Maybe we could use some adhesive-backed magnets and stick those on the back of the panel, and then be able to remove them? Is there a CAD model of the case we can use for measurements?
 
I want to put dust filters on this case too, but i think i'm going to pass.

This case is so tiny that you can clean it so easily.

I use specials dusters, like ''Compucleaner'' (I have this one) and ''Datavac'' (i don't have try this one)

But they both work good.

Others big cases are a pain to clean, you need to remove everything, but with this case you clean one chamber then the other and all good.

Maybe if there is a good filters options when i get the case i will use them.
 
Is it bad that I'm considering buying a refurbished optiplex 7040 for the 6600T in it?
I'd resell the rest or rerpurpose it I guess, but I really want that CPU.
35W and almost the exact some performance that I have with my 3570K @4.2

Edit:
Looks like you can get a 6700T for less than the refurb optiplex, lol
 
Looking at the pictures it seems that the front has 2 separate aluminum panels 1cm apart. I wondered if it would somehow be possible to cut an opening to the inner panel so that a longer GPU could fit. I have the zotac 970 extreme core, which is 303mm so just a few millimeters too long and I think it would be stupid to sell it just to get a bit shorter card because the 970 prices have dropped so much since the new generation GPUs were released.
 
Barbarian_PT said:
Sorry, I meant noisy. When I have the computer in idle, the PSU is the louder component of the PC.
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The fan isn't even suppose to spin until it's under heavier load with the SF450. You either have a faulty PSU, or a very hot case. Direct from Corsair SF450 product page:
Zero RPM Fan Mode
Building a silent PC? SF Series power supplies are so efficient that the fan doesn’t need to spin at low to medium loads.
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timojarv said:
Looking at the pictures it seems that the front has 2 separate aluminum panels 1cm apart. I wondered if it would somehow be possible to cut an opening to the inner panel so that a longer GPU could fit. I have the zotac 970 extreme core, which is 303mm so just a few millimeters too long and I think it would be stupid to sell it just to get a bit shorter card because the 970 prices have dropped so much since the new generation GPUs were released.
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I would probably be smarter to change GPUs, I imagine dan didn't put a hole there himself for structural reasons.
 
I currently have the c7 cooler, I just purchased the Alpenföhn Silvretta, does anyone have any ideas on temps for this thing? I know Dan said it works in the case. The C7 is constantly at 2k rpms with an i7 6700, even at 60c.
 
spda242 said:
I thinking about buying the following components for my A4-SFX (If Intel doesn't relase Kabby Lake and there is a reason for that), I have a new Asus 1080 Strix (non OC) already.


ASUS Z170I PRO GAMING
Intel Core i7 6700 3,4 GHz 8MB + Cryorig C7
Corsair 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 3600MHz CL18 Vengeance LPX Black
Corsair SF450 450W
Samsung 950-series PRO 512GB M.2 NVMe


My main concern are the Samsung M.2 SSD. There has been reports that it is running HOT and I am concerned that sloted under the mainboard might be an issue? What do you think?
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The 950 is probably a bad idea in this case. I've some people report it gets hot and throttles. And that is in cases with active case cooling and m2 slots on the top side of the board, which would help alleviate more of the heat. Here is one example. Shows it getting upwards of 72c without the custom installed heatsinks. That prob isn't a good idea when it's under the motherboard and sandwiched between a motherboard and gpu.
 
itschop said:
The 950 is probably a bad idea in this case. I've some people report it gets hot and throttles. And that is in cases with active case cooling and m2 slots on the top side of the board, which would help alleviate more of the heat. Here is one example. Shows it getting upwards of 72c without the custom installed heatsinks. That prob isn't a good idea when it's under the motherboard and sandwiched between a motherboard and gpu.
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You are right and the m.2 SSD will probably get hot and may throttle, but that doesn't make it a bad idea. A throttling m.2 950pro will probably be faster than any SATA connected SSD.

This is what Allyn Malventano writes over at PC Perspective:
"As you can see, you would have to write nearly 150GB at over 1.5GB/sec to get a 950 PRO to warm up enough to throttle, and when it does, the throttling is very minor, dropping to only 1.2GB/sec intermittently. The slightest airflow prevents this from happening at all, and even if there was zero airflow, the chances of maxing a 950 PRO out on writes for that long of a burst is extremely unlikely in even the most demanding consumer usage scenario."
 
Does anyone know if the Dan addressed the button with Lian Li? As someone who really likes a good switch, I'd love to hear about it
 
"It got hot but it was fine."

??

I don't usually watch Linus tech tips, is this how "in-depth" they get? No numbers, nothing? (People pay for this?)

I guess it's yet another way to get my Dan A4 porn for the day but...not very informative really. I'll take a print review please. /getoffmylawn
 
I agree. No assembly explanations, no CPU cooler options, no benchmarks, nothing... A very weak review.
 
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promaty said:
I agree. No assembly explanations, no CPU cooler options, no benchmarks, nothing... A very weak review.
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They're more for fun things. Luke occasionally does in-depth reviews on some GPUs, and they always put out specs for laptop and benchmark tests, but they might skip over the fact that cases can change those.

Also, dondan, congratulations, man. Four hundred thousand euro is fantastic for just the kickstarter, considering that Ncase got started on ~$8,000. Wish you luck, and hopeful to see your case available soon.
 
Jann5s said:
You are right and the m.2 SSD will probably get hot and may throttle, but that doesn't make it a bad idea. A throttling m.2 950pro will probably be faster than any SATA connected SSD.

This is what Allyn Malventano writes over at PC Perspective:
"As you can see, you would have to write nearly 150GB at over 1.5GB/sec to get a 950 PRO to warm up enough to throttle, and when it does, the throttling is very minor, dropping to only 1.2GB/sec intermittently. The slightest airflow prevents this from happening at all, and even if there was zero airflow, the chances of maxing a 950 PRO out on writes for that long of a burst is extremely unlikely in even the most demanding consumer usage scenario."
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That is on an ATX motherboard with M2 on the topside. It's also likely it has active cooling and a lower ambient temperature inside the case than the A4-SFX will have.

And other sites show the Samsung throttling pretty bad, like here:
IDLE results:
Bottom M.2 Slot Throttled by ~40% after ~50-60 sec
Top M.2 Slot Throttled by ~45% after ~45-50 sec Throttled by ~55% after ~35 sec
Upright M.2 Slot Throttled by ~42% after ~65-70 sec Throttled by ~42% after ~65 sec
Underside M.2 Slot Throttled by ~48% after ~53-58 sec

LOAD results:
Bottom M.2 Slot Throttled by ~52% after ~40 sec Throttled by ~68% after ~14-17 sec
Top M.2 Slot Throttled by ~50% after ~25 sec Throttled by ~76% after ~7 sec
Upright M.2 Slot Throttled by ~48% after ~55 sec Throttled by ~56% after ~40-44 sec
Underside M.2 Slot Throttled by ~70% after ~25 sec N/A
    • The ambient temperature within the system has a massive effect on when the drive throttles. It makes sense that a drive will throttle sooner in a hotter environment, but in the worst case we were seeing throttling in as soon as six or seven seconds!
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I don't see a point wasting the extra money if the drive is going to throttle that badly. Better of spending the extra money to get a 1TB sata SSD, especially in a case like the A4 where it's most likely going to be slightly warmer than a standard case.
 
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itschop said:
That is on an ATX motherboard with M2 on the topside. It's also likely it has active cooling and a lower ambient temperature inside the case than the A4-SFX will have.

And other sites show the Samsung throttling pretty bad, like here:


I don't see a point wasting the extra money if the drive is going to throttle that badly. Better of spending the extra money to get a 1TB sata SSD, especially in a case like the A4 where it's most likely going to be slightly warmer than a standard case.
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About the airflow in the PCper review, Allyn put the 950 below a graphics card which had the fans turned off, so the SSD was in a very restricted airspace. The mobo was on an open test bench without fans blowing on it. So, although not similar it was also rather restricted (probably still less than on the back of a mobo though).

About the Puget review you quoted, I've read it and I don't understand their findings. They claim that all 950's throttle regardless of their position and the amount of airflow. They also mention that they couldn't get the temperature readings from the sensor which is controlling the throttling. Anyway, in their data, the sequential reads are still 1.5GB/s after 5min of maximum load, I would not call that a bad idea.

Nevertheless, I have to agree with you here on the point that the extra money is probably not worth it (512GB for $250 for an 850 pro and $350 for an 950 pro). Mostly because SATA SSDs are already incredibly fast. However, in a case like the A4-SFX, using the m.2 slot may have other advantages, since it opens up another 2.5" location.


[edit]
I've found another review from ComputerBase.de (in german, i've linked to the google translate version of it, which is not perfect but you will understand the gist of it). Anyway their conclusion is that for the SM951 NVMe there were big problems causing it to throttle to 2MB/s intermittently. The 950 pro they tested behaved much better but still throttled 40% exactly like mentioned in the Puget review.

The summary is that itschop was completely right, your 950pro will throttle significantly when below your mobo. However, in that case the performance is still better than most SATA ssds, but now the performance/dollar has to be re-evaluated.
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P.S. here and here they have a nice solutions using thermal pads to "connect" the drive to the chassis with moderate levels of succes. However, from what I've gathered it may be smarter not to connect the NANd chips but only to connect the controller to the chassis.
 
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It's a nice case, but we're all suckers for paying $300 for it. At $200, it still would have been expensive, but it wouldn't have been stupidly expensive.
 
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