Paypal limited/closed my account?!

[trasixes]

I posting this here so that maybe I can get feedback from anyone that has gone through the same thing.

Here's the story. About a week ago, I logged into Paypal, and account is limited, and they are requesting proof of address, and photo ID. I'm pretty shocked, as I haven't had many transactions in recent months, and even then only small amounts. I provide the requested information, and then the next day I receive an email stating my appeal was denied, and they have decided to close my account.

At this point I'm pissed, but I keep calm, and call Paypal. To make a long story short, the best I could get out of 4 calls is that there was suspicious activity involving my bank, and my Paypal account. Each time I was told the account is being closed, and there is no way to reverse this.

In the calls, I made it a point to note the following, to no avail.

- A call to my bank verified there has been no suspicious activity with my bank account.
- The address on the account has not changed in over 3 years.
- All logins to Paypal have been from IP addresses in the same region.
- I haven't sent or received large payments.
- I have not had any disputes at all for any transaction.
- I do use the account regularly.

So Paypal won't give any specific details, nor do they show any willingness to resolve the matter in any way except closing my account. Thankfully, my Paypal balance is only about $10 at the moment.

I've had my account for 7-8 years, and never had a problem at all. Has anyone else had this experience?


Note: Mods, if this is the wrong place to post this, I apologize. It seemed like the most relevant place.

 

[Nenu]

Years ago I received an email from them saying my bank details were not valid.
I checked the emails code to verify the links were genuine and there was nothing untoward.
So I emailed them to ask what was wrong.
No reply.
I emailed again a week later stating if they dont reply this time I wont use them again.
No reply.

Baffles me how they stay in business.
I decided not to use Ebay from then on as well.
Their loss.

 

[Gillbot]

I keep my PayPal empty for a reason. Useless place and if there were any reasonable alternative I'd never use it again.

 

[trasixes]

I agree with both of you guys. If not for Ebay, I wouldn't care at all. I don't buy from there often, but when I do it is something I can't find elsewhere.

I've spent the morning searching, and it appears Paypal has done this to many folks. I'm just lucky I didn't have more funds in the account.

 

[Deleted member 96510]

What region are the transactions from? Is it a restricted region? If so, it makes sense. Especially if funds are being transferred to areas heavy in terrorist activity. It's inconvenient, but it makes sense to close the hole. Will they allow you to open a new account?

 

[Krazy925]

Wait. They're gonna keep your money too?
That's shady and I have to assume I'm reading this wrong. They should transfer your account balance before closing correct?

 

[silent-circuit]

Yeah, as I told you in PM earlier, they limited my account due to some credit card related confusion that's since been cleared up with the issuer (Discover) but apparently that isn't good enough for PayPal. Only good news for me is, I don't think I had any balance when they locked it.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

Paypal is as shady as it gets. They also do whatever the fuck they want because they aren't even considered a bank and, thus, such regulations do not apply.

Anybody know of alternatives? That work internationally?

 

[trasixes]

What region are the transactions from? Is it a restricted region? If so, it makes sense. Especially if funds are being transferred to areas heavy in terrorist activity. It's inconvenient, but it makes sense to close the hole. Will they allow you to open a new account?

The transactions are all US based, and I am in the US. My account, and usage, is about as vanilla as it gets

Wait. They're gonna keep your money too?
That's shady and I have to assume I'm reading this wrong. They should transfer your account balance before closing correct?

No, they will be mailing a check to my confirmed address for the balance. However, it will be 180 days. Yes, 6 months lol.

Yeah, as I told you in PM earlier, they limited my account due to some credit card related confusion that's since been cleared up with the issuer (Discover) but apparently that isn't good enough for PayPal. Only good news for me is, I don't think I had any balance when they locked it.

After doing a search this morning, it's clear Paypal has some serious problems with the way they flag accounts. The internet is full of complaints involving Paypal and seemingly random account closures with little explanation.

Paypal is as shady as it gets. They also do whatever the fuck they want because they aren't even considered a bank and, thus, such regulations do not apply.

Anybody know of alternatives? That work internationally?

Stay away from Venmo - it is a Paypal company lol.

Dwolla, Skrill, Stripe, just to name a few. I can't vouch for any of them, except Dwolla, but they are out there. Unfortunately, buying anything on Ebay pretty much requires Paypal still.

Why hasn't anyone toppled or give competition to, Ebay yet? Jesus it's 2016, and Ebay is STILL the only mainstream auction site around!

 

[janas19]

Just because someone mentioned Dwolla, I have to bring this up. Dwolla has ZERO buyer protection. If you send money for goods to an unscrupulous individual using Dwolla, they are under no obligation to ever give you those goods. That's because Dwolla is simply an ACH transfer, nothing more. And if you think Dwolla's "community managers" are going to give you any honest support, buddy you're in for a rude awakening.

10.1 Dispute resolution. You understand and agree that Dwolla is not responsible for the goods or services that you pay for using the Dwolla Services...You are responsible for resolving any disputes that you may have with a seller.

 

[trasixes]

Paypal is as shady as it gets. They also do whatever the fuck they want because they aren't even considered a bank and, thus, such regulations do not apply.

Anybody know of alternatives? That work internationally?

Just because someone mentioned Dwolla, I have to bring this up. Dwolla has ZERO buyer protection. If you send money for goods to an unscrupulous individual using Dwolla, they are under no obligation to ever give you those goods. That's because Dwolla is simply an ACH transfer, nothing more. And if you think Dwolla's "community managers" are going to give you any honest support, buddy you're in for a rude awakening.

Maybe I'm just jaded but I don't expect any of these companies to be much help in that department. My credit card company takes care of me though.

 

[Gillbot]

Maybe I'm just jaded but I don't expect any of these companies to be much help in that department. My credit card company takes care of me though.

That's the fundamental problem anymore, people don't even try to protect themselves. I don't care if I send $2 or $200, I look into a person and see what they are like before I send any money.

 

[waderunner]

I have generally liked to keep my FS / FT and eBay money in PayPal, and just buy all my hobby stuff from there. I know that as long as I don't go to zero, I'm not spending too much, and not getting carried away. But after reading this thread, I decided to transfer my current PayPal balance back home :O

 

[ob1]

My paypal account got suspended during the poker craze when I was moving money from poker stars/UB back to my real checking account and had to use paypal as one of the legs. I argued for about 30 seconds then just let it go and moved on because it appears there is either a lack of usable oxygen in their offices or they hire employees directly from arkum asylum...

 

[trasixes]

That's the fundamental problem anymore, people don't even try to protect themselves. I don't care if I send $2 or $200, I look into a person and see what they are like before I send any money.

I can't agree more. Do everything you can to ensure a person is legit before doing business with them.

"A fool and his money soon part ways"

 

[Gillbot]

I can't agree more. Do everything you can to ensure a person is legit before doing business with them.

"A fool and his money soon part ways"

People were WAY more careful back in the day of sending a money order. Now with paypal, trading has gotten lazy and it's allowed scammers to prey.

 

[Gman1979]

You need to call them back and state the following (you have zero legal obligation to be truthful when stating this:

"What you are doing is a violation consumer protection laws. I demand arbitration and need to inform you that you will be unable to use your normal arbitration firm as I am employed by another company who has them under contract and this would present a conflict of interests".

You should expect a much more helpful call back from their legal department. They tend to stick their head in the sand up until the point where they realize someone is willing to actually show up to fight them. Even if you're not truly intending to, their legal department will do almost anything to avoid having to actually make a case for account actions, and they don't like having to spend $ on another arbitrator they don't have under contract.



If you don't feel like twisting their arm by bluffing, just demand the number for the legal department. Call them and ask them the address you need to have them served at and explain why. You've got a 50% chance of getting someone on the phone who will try to avoid being sued (they still have to waste time appearing in court and responding to a complaint before they can even try to have it dismissed or removed to another jurisdiction). The other 50% chance is you'll get someone who has no idea why they should care about a lawsuit.

 

[Beaflag VonRathburg]

I keep my PayPal empty for a reason. Useless place and if there were any reasonable alternative I'd never use it again.

There are lots of wonderful alternatives, they just aren't fully culturally accepted yet.

I agree with both of you guys. If not for Ebay, I wouldn't care at all. I don't buy from there often, but when I do it is something I can't find elsewhere.

I've spent the morning searching, and it appears Paypal has done this to many folks. I'm just lucky I didn't have more funds in the account.

If you only buy on ebay, you don't need to use paypal. You can checkout with a debit or credit card. Certain credit cards offer great built in warranty periods that exceed paypal's. My Amex card offers one year warranty on new purchases with zero cost.

 

[Crosshairs]

Here is an email I got from them about a week ago:

Your PayPal transaction history

xxxxxxxxxxxxx,

We’ve noticed that you’ve had a higher than average rate of issues with your PayPal transactions. Such problems may include claims you have initiated with PayPal or through your financial institution or bank.

We want you to be happy with your purchases, but we may find it necessary to suspend your PayPal account privileges if we continue to notice a high number of problems with your PayPal transactions. Pending further review, we may also suspend any outstanding and future buyer protection claims, and we reserve the right to deny these claims.

We simply wanted to give you a chance to reassess your account activity for the future. You don’t need to take any action, and we don’t require a response to this message.

You can find additional information and tips about buying and selling safely on our Business Resource Center at Home | PayPal Business Center.

The funny part is that the "higher than average rate of issues" is due to multiple fraudulent charges , all of which were tracked by them back to India and a few other countries. so if they want to limit my account because someone hacked it, let them do it. Ill close it and find other methods to conduct business online. ..their loss, not mine.

 

[trasixes]

Here is an email I got from them about a week ago:




The funny part is that the "higher than average rate of issues" is due to multiple fraudulent charges , all of which were tracked by them back to India and a few other countries. so if they want to limit my account because someone hacked it, let them do it. Ill close it and find other methods to conduct business online. ..their loss, not mine.

So in summation, don't get hacked or defrauded again, or we will suspend your account? I can't help but laugh in disbelief, it's completely ridiculous.

 

[Gillbot]

There are lots of wonderful alternatives, they just aren't fully culturally accepted yet.

yeah. I love the reaction I get from people when I tell them I prefer a money order. People have become so complacent with PayPal and their "protection" that they have gone numb.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

This happened to me with Google Wallet. Its a bunch of Bullshit if you ask me.

 

[goldy]

I agree with both of you guys. If not for Ebay, I wouldn't care at all. I don't buy from there often, but when I do it is something I can't find elsewhere.

I've spent the morning searching, and it appears Paypal has done this to many folks. I'm just lucky I didn't have more funds in the account.

You don't need a PayPal account to buy from eBay. You can checkout through PayPal as a guest.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

That sounds like Paypal has you confused with another account. What other explanation could there be?

 

[trasixes]

You don't need a PayPal account to buy from eBay. You can checkout through PayPal as a guest.

True, I did forget about that. Thanks for the heads up.

That sounds like Paypal has you confused with another account. What other explanation could there be?

I finally gave up. After speaking to various people at Paypal, with various titles, I got absolutely nowhere. The only information I was given is that there was suspicious activity involving my bank. In the end, all responses were some canned form of "the account is closed, and we cannot reopen closed accounts". My bank says there has been no suspicious activity, rather from their view my transactions where Paypal is concerned look extremely average/benign.

My guess? There is some type of algorithm that "detects" unusual activity, and flags the account, rather than relying on humans. It's obviously broken, or they are all idiots - or both.

EIther way, I am done with it, and moving on.

 

[evilgrin]

Paypal customer service sucks with this stuff, you get told no alot, or stuff can't be done.

 

[TurK-FX]

just have them close your account and open a new one in a little while. Dont verify your account or dont put you SSN. hook up your credit card and only use for things that you have no other way. I had an issue with my original paypal account as someone hacked my ebay and ordered something for over $1000. I reported the same they, but they kept my account frozen for a month. Then I needed to buy something and there were no other payment method, so I created another paypal account and now I have 2 account after they resolve the issue after 45 days later. One account is fully verified and other one is not.

 

[bonehead123]

While I certainly agree that they seem to be pulling some offhanded crap by closing your account and then not providing a solid explanation, I can only say that I have had a Paypal account for over 18 years, used it to buy and sell a tremendous number of things (over 2500 items at last count) ranging in value from $7 to $12000, both on ebay and numerous other FS/FT forums. Plus, I have relocated several times in past 10 years, changed banks, credit cards and passwords more times than I can count....

In fact, 4 of my most recent transactions (in the past 60 days) totaled over $3000, all through paypal....

All of this without even the slightest whisper of concern from them

Guess I'm just lucky !

 

[JordanCL]

FWIW I haven't read the whole thread but I have had my paypal account limited then locked as above. I was also told no chance for appeal. However, I appealed it and had the decision overturned and have full use of my account. It took several months, though not the 6 months it would have taken to receive my balance (their are also rumors abound that if you're okay with losing your PP account and want the money out sooner you can file a complaint with the CFPB).

From my experience, I highly doubt your usage was vanilla - they don't limit or shut down for vanilla reasons. Vanilla customers are their bread and butter. Here are some likely reasons:

Misuse or exploiting either of the credit/debit products (Business Mastercard, Ebay essentials card) including backup funding tricks or loading of other debit products (Serve, Netspend, etc) or multiple ATM withdrawals
Misuse of Paypal MyCash cards, mostly including adding value you and cashing out by some other means, either bank account withdrawal, money orders, transferring to a friend etc.
Basically any method by which money that has been added to paypal followed by you requesting withdrawals to your bank account "too quickly" in their opinion - shouldn't happen in theory but if someone who paid you had loaded cash via MyCash Cards and sent to you and you immediately cashed it out
Using paypal to send or receive money for unauthorized reasons (i.e. gambling, betting)

Doing any of these activities in reverse, e.g. if you send money via friends and family / no fee to someone, and they instantly cash out, and this occurs multiple times, this also is a problem, especially if it's not 'friends and family'.

All of these methods look like Money Laundering or Card Washing and their fraud department has a hair trigger. They are happy for you to use paypal but they want the money to stay in the ecosystem for a little while. This is always my advice for anyone wary of being limited by paypal - keep the money in the paypal account and use it for stuff.


In my specific case I was loading money to paypal and then unloading it to Serve through the debit card. This really looks like money laundering to them and my only saving grace is that I was then using the billpay feature of serve to pay bills. Because they had no vision of what I did with Serve they assumed I was trying to obfuscate cashing out to my bank account. After providing them with 4 months of statements and several well written letters, emails, and faxes, I got full access back. I asked multiple times for activities I should avoid which I wasn't given.