True Gaming Laptops Are Finally Becoming A Reality

Megalith

Megalith

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Do you think that external-GPU solutions for laptops will finally begin to take off with developments like Razer’s breakout box?

…Razer is using the new standard USB-C connector, relying on the expanded bandwidth of Thunderbolt 3 to handle the high-speed communication requirements of a pixel-crunching GPU. At launch, the Razer Core is only compatible with the Blade Stealth, but Razer tells me that it's "not doing anything to close off the Thunderbolt 3 connection to make it proprietary [and would] love to see as many devices as possible compatible with it."
 
Your still limited by the CPU in the laptop. I can see a very limited market for this, but for me, I think a better answer is something like Steam In-Home Streaming. ~Nearly Any~ laptop works with that, and while it does require a full gaming PC on the backend, I bet that's price competitive with this external GPU box. Plus you get an entire second computer to use...
 
I think the market for higher-end mobile devices in general seems to be pretty good right now. As PC sales level off, I think we'll see fewer PCs sold overall but a little growth at the upper end.
 
In my current situation I see the utility. The biggest issue is how you use your laptop. I actually utilize my GPU at work, so I need the gfx to be builtin. I had a gt70 and gt72's from MSI and mobile gaming is a reality with full strength graphics enabled. I just recently sold them and am struggling by on an older Thinkpad. Having the ability to plug in a modern GPU to the IGFX on the thinkpad would be a god send until I can afford a new replacement laptop (gt72s with desktop 980 for laptops)
 
I think it's cool.

But having said that, if you've got the ultrabook, the graphics card chassis, an external keyboard & mouse, and possibly a display as well, then why wouldn't you just build a SFF PC to begin with?
 
"True gaming laptops"...what does this mean exactly? Gaming laptops for years have been true gaming machines. My old Asus with its 18.4 inch 1080p screen, Core2Quad, 6GB RAM, dual 4870 Mobility's, Blu-ray...it was more powerful then most gaming desktops at the time. Certainly didn't have a problem playing any games at max settings.
 
I remember playing just fine on my Dell XPS Gen 2.

Single core and a GTX6800M was great at the time!
 
Brian_B said:
Your still limited by the CPU in the laptop. I can see a very limited market for this, but for me, I think a better answer is something like Steam In-Home Streaming. ~Nearly Any~ laptop works with that, and while it does require a full gaming PC on the backend, I bet that's price competitive with this external GPU box. Plus you get an entire second computer to use...
Click to expand...

I finally used the Steam streaming at our house. I was under the impression that it streamed the DATA from the other computer. But I was very impressed to see that it was infact streaming the video (though I was not impressed that both computers get used for it). I was streaming at 1920x1080 and aside from during heavy screen movement, I could hardly detect any video artifacts. Pretty cool stuff.
 
Always thought this is cool. Will keep an eye on how it moves forwards
 
Mut1ny said:
"True gaming laptops"...what does this mean exactly? Gaming laptops for years have been true gaming machines. My old Asus with its 18.4 inch 1080p screen, Core2Quad, 6GB RAM, dual 4870 Mobility's, Blu-ray...it was more powerful then most gaming desktops at the time. Certainly didn't have a problem playing any games at max settings.
Click to expand...

It's The Verge. They wouldn't know gaming hardware if it hit them in the head...
 
Trimlock said:
I remember playing just fine on my Dell XPS Gen 2.

Single core and a GTX6800M was great at the time!
Click to expand...

Interesting bit of off-topic, but the original XPS was actually reviewed here on HardOCP years ago. It used a Mobility Radeon 9800 chipset that was more-or-less the equivalent of a desktop Radeon 9700pro.

What most people didn't realize is that the Mobility Radeon 9800 didn't just share features with the then-current X800 series, it WAS a cut-down X800 mobile variant. Some people have unlocked 16 pixel pipes on the "9800" and have turned them into mini-X800XT's. Of course, that's moot nowadays, but still a fun bit of history. :D

It was rare for the chip to fully unlock to 16. I believe most people who were able to unlock were able to squeeze 12 pipes out of it. Anyways...

I'm done interrupting with random bits of trivial knowledge. :)
 
It's a nice step forward and something that some people have been asking for years now.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Interesting bit of off-topic, but the original XPS was actually reviewed here on HardOCP years ago. It used a Mobility Radeon 9800 chipset that was more-or-less the equivalent of a desktop Radeon 9700pro.

What most people didn't realize is that the Mobility Radeon 9800 didn't just share features with the then-current X800 series, it WAS a cut-down X800 mobile variant. Some people have unlocked 16 pixel pipes on the "9800" and have turned them into mini-X800XT's. Of course, that's moot nowadays, but still a fun bit of history. :D

It was rare for the chip to fully unlock to 16. I believe most people who were able to unlock were able to squeeze 12 pipes out of it. Anyways...

I'm done interrupting with random bits of trivial knowledge. :)
Click to expand...

Well the 6800Ultra Mobile was also a 12 pipe chip, it was the actual chip used in the desktop 6800GT/Ultra just locked down to 12 pipes. I later flashed it to 16, but there were times where it would drain the battery faster than the stock charger could provide. I think the original was 65watt charger and you could upgrade to a 94watt charger. That thing was a beast!
 
That's not a laptop then... that's a weirdly laid out pc with a weaker than standard processor. That said I find that laptops can do much better in gaming than they get credit for. I played around with my $350 Lenovo and it handles BF4 at medium with an avg fps of ~30. And that's just a budget laptop with an apu rather than dedicated card.
 
I think pairing a huge external card with its own case to the laptop completely retarded and defeating the whole idea of having a laptop.
 
I had a gaming laptop 5 years ago. Asus G73JH. Fucking beast. Then a few years later I got an Alienware M18x. I do not understand the backwards-ass people who still think gaming laptops aren't and haven't been a reality for a long time.
 
Gaming 'laptops' have been around for years.
only problem is , that they are really big , thick and heavy desktop replacement and not truly mobile devices as you would expect.

not sure an external GPU like this helps too much with mobility
 
It is nice. You have a single PC that is mobile but can plug in a GPU at home to use. But then you have to be home to use it. Which is half the point of a gaming laptop; to be able to play games when not at home. It certainly is nice to have for those that want it. But I would also want a nice keyboard, headset, mouse, HOTAS... by the time I plug in all the extras I might as well buy the rest of the desktop. Makes it more convenient. But as I said, there are people that fit this niche and it will be nice if it takes off.
 
T_A said:
not truly mobile devices as you would expect.
Click to expand...

Depends on what you get. There are plenty of more than capable gaming laptops that are no larger or thicker than any other ole' laptop. Look at the Lenovo gaming laptops among many others. Now, sure, they don't have SLI 980's and the like but they're still game worthy.

Also, I think this is one of those things that you go into knowing what you're getting yourself into. No one buys a laptop with a desktop level CPU and dual power hungry GPU's then bitches about it being too thick or heavy.

Regardless, even if the gaming laptop isn't half an thick it's still a SHIT ton easier and smaller to carry around then a monitor, tower, keyboard, mouse, etc.
 
I'm glad to see Thunderbolt 3 will finally allow standardized, non-proprietary external "docking stations" to include upgradable, common desktop GPUs and most importantly allow them to accelerate the built-in laptop display at PCI-E 3.0 bandwidth (though I've not been sure if they are limited to x4 speeds or not...but then again, I don't know if any current or upcoming GPUs will be performance limited by running at that speed). Up until recently, all implementations have been hopelessly proprietary so now the tech can really be put to use. Intel's Thunderbolt 3 using USB-C connectors and encompassing the USB 3.1 spec (as well as things like Display Port, AC power etc..) is great as well, and as such is poised to be the most widely used and useful connector around for high bandwidth applications IF Intel isn't going to be stingy with its license. I could sadly see them refusing to grant the upcoming AMD Zen platforms access for instance, which would be a considerable blow to AMD mobile chipsets if TB3 takes off on the Intel side.

Overall I like the idea of this platform as it helps to add a fully upgrade-ready component that was never before present in laptops - the GPU. The Razer Core is being paired with the Razer Blade Stealth and this makes the case for basically adding the GPU power of the Core externally to what seems to be a decently luxury ultrabook. However, given that it has a 12.5" 4K display, I much rather they would have picked a quad-core core i7 CPU instead (and offered 16gb of DDR4, instead of 8 of DDR3L), even if that would have meant making it a little bit thicker for better cooling/battery. After all, Razer's 14" Blade has both a quad core i7 and a GTX 970 and is relatively thin and small in form factor, so I imagine it wouldn't have required too much space/weight to cool a higher end quad i7 alone. Its a pity, as the Blade Stealth is really quite well spec'ed otherwise and even decently priced. I'm worried that were I to buy it, I'd trade the upgradability of the Core and its GPU for being encumbered by a low-TDP dual core (that doesn't run at a high clock rate, nor likely have the cooling for turbo or OCing) instead. Thus, I'd consider waiting for the refresh of the Razer Blade itself for 4K, a new generation CPU and GPU and then consider buying the Core later for further GPU boost if need be...but I admit I'm kind of wasting either the Core or all the size/weight/cooling that goes into dealing with the internal discrete GPU.

Thus, I hope there will be lots of Thunderbolt 3 competitors for the Core, and hopefully someone will make a true "Ultrabook" designed to be used with them, that has luxury materials and high end components, save for the discrete GPU which will be found externally.
 
T_A said:
Gaming 'laptops' have been around for years.
only problem is , that they are really big , thick and heavy desktop replacement and not truly mobile devices as you would expect.

not sure an external GPU like this helps too much with mobility
Click to expand...

Say that to my old Alienware M11x. Thing was lightweight, played every game with zero issues, and would last hours on a single charge (once you turned off the discrete graphics and used the integrated). If you kept using the discrete while gaming, you might get an hour.

Sold that off a long time ago. I just ordered the Alienware 13". Has a GTX 960m. Pretty sure it won't have any issues playing games either, but I won't get to play at full resolution on max settings. I went with the QHD model with 3200 x 1800 resolution. I just want to be able to play games on the long airplane rides (10+ hours, not including layovers) I take 6-8 times a year and when I am back in my hometown on vacation.

There have been many gaming laptops out there now that aren't heavy desktop replacements. Most your large manufacturers make an array of them. Your small ones can game, but don't expect super stellar performance. Just enough to play games with a lot of settings turned down. Your medium sized ones, which you turn down some of the settings. Then your large ones which will be heavy, but you can also configure them to rival desktops.

I always aim for the smallest. I don't need my games being as gorgeous as possible. I just want to be able to play games. I have a desktop for home.
 
I've been gaming just fine on laptops for a decade.

A 2009 Alienware M17x C2Q Q9100M SLi 260GTX and a 2015 ASUS ROG G751JY being the last two.
"becoming a reality"? weird wording
 
My wife has an Alienware 13" QHD. Thing is a beast, actually. Plays most games pretty damn well, though usually half res is mandatory.

She actually bought their graphics extender this last week and the damn thing is hopeless, TBH. It doesn't work right with every video card (a GTX 950 in our case since we want it for a home theater/Street Fighter dock...she'll probably have to return the 950 and get a 960 instead), the driver situation is JANKY (forced to use old nVidia mobile drivers, 353.30).

That being said, it should be pretty nice when she gets it all set up, but it's not as plug'n'play as Alienware pretends it is.


The Razer solution, by comparison, should be much better, since you're not dealing with an odd proprietary solution and this thing comes in when there's actually some support from the greater manufacturing community for the idea.

For my preference I think I'd rather the 14" Razer Blade once they add support...that dual core i7 in the stealth is going to bottleneck almost any decent GPU. The ideal product would be something like the 14" Blade without a discrete GPU, or with something basic, and then paired with this.
 
I have an MSI GhostPro60 15" i7 with a 970m chip in it...

I wish I used the damn thing more to be honest. It's powerful as hell, and tiny/lightweight.
 
As much as I travel for work, I'm effectively doing away with my desktop... Maybe this will help me not have to give up what little [H] card I have left. I wonder how much performance I can squeeze out of a 980m + this box in SLI.
 
If you add an external gpu then you neutralized every possible advantage a laptop has.
 
Gaming laptops already exist. It's just that small percentage of PC gaming enthusiast that have impossible to reach expectations that say otherwise. I'm not expecting a laptop of any make or brand to have desktop level performance but I've been more than happy with what I have seen from gaming level laptops over the past few generations. Especially since it has brought down the price of lower tier laptops across the board. You can grab a decent laptop with a discrete mid range GPU in the $500 range. That use to cost over $1000 NEW. I remember dropping almost $900 on the Dell outlet for my Inspiron 1720 that sported a 8600M GT lol!
 
T_A said:
Gaming 'laptops' have been around for years.
only problem is , that they are really big , thick and heavy desktop replacement and not truly mobile devices as you would expect.
Click to expand...

And they never will be. Even if you externalize the video card(which I've been hearing about for years and it still sounds stupid) you've got to cool the CPU sufficiently as well which is going to make the thing bulky with coolers. Might as well keep the GPU in there.
 
Megalith said:
Do you think that external-GPU solutions for laptops will finally begin to take off with developments like Razer’s breakout box?

…Razer is using the new standard USB-C connector, relying on the expanded bandwidth of Thunderbolt 3 to handle the high-speed communication requirements of a pixel-crunching GPU. At launch, the Razer Core is only compatible with the Blade Stealth, but Razer tells me that it's "not doing anything to close off the Thunderbolt 3 connection to make it proprietary [and would] love to see as many devices as possible compatible with it."
Click to expand...

The only reason this hasn't become a reality already is due to the laptop manufacturers not embracing Thunderbolt 1 & 2 prior to this. If they actually implement Thunderbolt 3 properly and design enclosures similar to the Alienware and Razer solutions like this will finally take off.

Brian_B said:
Your still limited by the CPU in the laptop. I can see a very limited market for this, but for me, I think a better answer is something like Steam In-Home Streaming. ~Nearly Any~ laptop works with that, and while it does require a full gaming PC on the backend, I bet that's price competitive with this external GPU box. Plus you get an entire second computer to use...
Click to expand...

Streaming games on your laptop while in your house is pretty pointless. Your desktop will be faster and have a bigger monitor attached to it. You also tie up both PCs doing this, negating the ability to use both systems for people to play games together. Having a built in GPU for the laptop means that it can be used as a gaming device, independent of anything else.

Showbiz said:
I think it's cool.

But having said that, if you've got the ultrabook, the graphics card chassis, an external keyboard & mouse, and possibly a display as well, then why wouldn't you just build a SFF PC to begin with?
Click to expand...

A laptop is still several orders of magnitude easier to transport and setup at an alternate location than a SFF machine is. For people who buy gaming laptops and game on them at home and don't travel with them, I'd agree with you. For gamers who travel, a traditional laptop makes far more sense.

cthulhuiscool said:
That's not a laptop then... that's a weirdly laid out pc with a weaker than standard processor. That said I find that laptops can do much better in gaming than they get credit for. I played around with my $350 Lenovo and it handles BF4 at medium with an avg fps of ~30. And that's just a budget laptop with an apu rather than dedicated card.
Click to expand...

B00nie said:
I think pairing a huge external card with its own case to the laptop completely retarded and defeating the whole idea of having a laptop.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. A friend of mine is extremely social and rarely spends time at home. He's always over at friends houses playing games. When his girlfriend is in town (she goes to school in another state) he spends time at her place rather than his. He had been dragging a desktop PC around built in a Corsair Obsidian 800D. :eek: When he came to me wanting to build a new one I told him to knock that crap off and get an Alienware so that he could use the external GPU box.

When he's at home he's got a 30" monitor and uses the thing as a desktop. He's also got the portability he needs for school and travel.

T_A said:
Gaming 'laptops' have been around for years.
only problem is , that they are really big , thick and heavy desktop replacement and not truly mobile devices as you would expect.

not sure an external GPU like this helps too much with mobility
Click to expand...

They are mobile enough. Everything is about compromise. If you need maximum mobility, it's more often than not for work purposes and you can get away with less computing power. If you want to play games, you'll have to deal with a larger machine. Unfortunately that's just the way the technology has to work for now.

Flogger23m said:
It is nice. You have a single PC that is mobile but can plug in a GPU at home to use. But then you have to be home to use it. Which is half the point of a gaming laptop; to be able to play games when not at home. It certainly is nice to have for those that want it. But I would also want a nice keyboard, headset, mouse, HOTAS... by the time I plug in all the extras I might as well buy the rest of the desktop. Makes it more convenient. But as I said, there are people that fit this niche and it will be nice if it takes off.
Click to expand...

As I said, my friend fits the niche intention of such devices perfectly. He's glad he followed my recommendation on that, rather than building another massive desktop.

Xaeos said:
I'm glad to see Thunderbolt 3 will finally allow standardized, non-proprietary external "docking stations" to include upgradable, common desktop GPUs and most importantly allow them to accelerate the built-in laptop display at PCI-E 3.0 bandwidth (though I've not been sure if they are limited to x4 speeds or not...but then again, I don't know if any current or upcoming GPUs will be performance limited by running at that speed). Up until recently, all implementations have been hopelessly proprietary so now the tech can really be put to use. Intel's Thunderbolt 3 using USB-C connectors and encompassing the USB 3.1 spec (as well as things like Display Port, AC power etc..) is great as well, and as such is poised to be the most widely used and useful connector around for high bandwidth applications IF Intel isn't going to be stingy with its license. I could sadly see them refusing to grant the upcoming AMD Zen platforms access for instance, which would be a considerable blow to AMD mobile chipsets if TB3 takes off on the Intel side.
Click to expand...

This isn't new. This was all possible on the previous two iterations of Thunderbolt. For whatever reason, the industry just didn't embrace Thunderbolt via the mini-DP connector. They might embrace it via USB 3.1 (Type-C) as they believe it to be the future. If it does replace existing USB connections then it makes sense to pass TH signals over the alt-mode of USB 3.1. It's probably a simpler connection to implement electrically, but this has all been possible for some time now.

M76 said:
If you add an external gpu then you neutralized every possible advantage a laptop has.
Click to expand...

No, because you can still pick up the machine and go elsewhere with it. Again this is a very specific niche, but there are some advantages to this type of setup.

Stiletto said:
And they never will be. Even if you externalize the video card(which I've been hearing about for years and it still sounds stupid) you've got to cool the CPU sufficiently as well which is going to make the thing bulky with coolers. Might as well keep the GPU in there.
Click to expand...

You need a GPU that's capable of gaming, but until the mobile GPUs actually reach parity with desktop graphics cards there will be a performance boost from an external enclosure like the Alienware graphics booster.
 
ElAntonius said:
My wife has an Alienware 13" QHD. Thing is a beast, actually. Plays most games pretty damn well, though usually half res is mandatory.

She actually bought their graphics extender this last week and the damn thing is hopeless, TBH. It doesn't work right with every video card (a GTX 950 in our case since we want it for a home theater/Street Fighter dock...she'll probably have to return the 950 and get a 960 instead), the driver situation is JANKY (forced to use old nVidia mobile drivers, 353.30).
Click to expand...

I read about that graphics extender. I don't know if the Alienware 13 R2 uses higher PCIe now, but I just bought the R1 (don't have it yet). I hear it's bottlenecked with the PCIe interface and the processor. It'll give higher performance, but not as high as it could be. I don't plan on getting one, as I have a gaming desktop.


M76 said:
If you add an external gpu then you neutralized every possible advantage a laptop has.
Click to expand...

And what advantage is that? You can still take the laptop out. You can still game on it without the external gpu. The point of it is to bring it closer to desktop performance when you decide to use it like a desktop at home. While not limiting your portability, when you decide to undock it and take it on your trip elsewhere.

Hell that was the whole point of the old docking stations. When you got home, you drop the laptop into the dock and viola. You were plugged up to a bigger monitor, nicer keyboard, and a mouse. Just now, your dock happens to have a discrete graphics card in it.

The portability of the laptop is not lost. Disconnect it and guess what? It's portable again.


Stiletto said:
And they never will be. Even if you externalize the video card(which I've been hearing about for years and it still sounds stupid) you've got to cool the CPU sufficiently as well which is going to make the thing bulky with coolers. Might as well keep the GPU in there.
Click to expand...

They're keeping the CPU in there and they're keeping the GPU in there. You just have the ability to have a much more powerful GPU externally, if you choose to buy it.

Obviously, not all of these laptops are like that, like MSI GS30, which has no discrete graphics. Neither will this Razer Blade Stealth. Not a fan of that, but Dell's Alienware will have integrated graphics and discrete graphics built into the laptop. Then you have the option of having external graphics also.

If you're looking for the maximum video quality, you'll be stuck with a 10+ lbs laptop that costs well into or past $3k, like MSI GT80. If you're looking just to be able to play games at all, there are more than enough laptops to choose from. If they happen to have a Thunderbolt 3 connection, then you can use Razer's Core external GPU thing also.

I went with Alienware 13" laptop. CPU and GPU for gaming. Weighs just a little over an Inspiron 13", which can't game. About 1 lbs heavier than the XPS 13, which also can't game.
 
Ok I guess gaming laptops do exist if you are ready to pay double to triple the price compared to a desktop. I wouldn't do it.

Having said that I had to get an Asus ROG laptop to my wife after she chewed through 3 regular laptops in 2 years. She already wore holes to the space and wasd keys and many more are now worn blank. But it still works at least.
 
krotch said:
I read about that graphics extender. I don't know if the Alienware 13 R2 uses higher PCIe now, but I just bought the R1 (don't have it yet). I hear it's bottlenecked with the PCIe interface and the processor. It'll give higher performance, but not as high as it could be. I don't plan on getting one, as I have a gaming desktop.
Click to expand...

In our case the laptop is a secondary PC: we both have full up desktops.

The Alienware, like the Razer, runs 4x PCIE 3.0, which isn't as much of a penalty as you'd think; someone has some benchmarks floating around showing about a 5% drop off worst case at worst case on a GTX980 TI...

Given that a laptop is unlikely to be able to match the raw power of a desktop and still be reasonable to carry, I would target the mid-range for something like this. Certainly wouldn't try for mega 4k 3D full details.

Point being, something like a GTX960 or GTX970 level is probably about right for this sort of thing, more than that and you start to hit diminishing returns due to the very nature of it. With the dual core U-level processors like on the Razer Stealth and the Alienware 13, I'd be hard pressed to justify anything more than a 950...though as I said it looks like Alienware's solution doesn't work with the 950.
 
B00nie said:
Ok I guess gaming laptops do exist if you are ready to pay double to triple the price compared to a desktop. I wouldn't do it.

Having said that I had to get an Asus ROG laptop to my wife after she chewed through 3 regular laptops in 2 years. She already wore holes to the space and wasd keys and many more are now worn blank. But it still works at least.
Click to expand...

There is certainly a cost barrier compared to desktops. I don't think the experience is as good either in most cases, but again if you really want or need the portability in a gaming machine its there.
 
Dan_D said:
You need a GPU that's capable of gaming, but until the mobile GPUs actually reach parity with desktop graphics cards there will be a performance boost from an external enclosure like the Alienware graphics booster.
Click to expand...

You're not the only one saying this, but I just saw your post. Have you used any mobile GPUs recently? Current Mobile GPUs are more than capable of matching performance of desktop capabilities.

I have a 2 year old 17" Sager Laptop with an Nvidia GTX 880M. I can run nearly any game out there maxed out on highest settings(FXAA, AA, etc), no problem. No, I can't run it at 4k.. but my screen is only 1080p anyways, and in the last year or two there haven't really been any games that run below 30 FPS, except for a few where I couldn't turn on 16X AA, etc.

If you're attempting to play on a 4K monitor with 60+ FPS, then yeah, you probably shouldn't be using a laptop.
 
Trimlock said:
I remember playing just fine on my Dell XPS Gen 2.

Single core and a GTX6800M was great at the time!
Click to expand...

I had the inspiron 9300 i believe it was and did some modding and got the 6800 into it. Was a great gaming platform at the time!
 
B00nie said:
Ok I guess gaming laptops do exist if you are ready to pay double to triple the price compared to a desktop. I wouldn't do it.
Click to expand...

The exact same could be said about laptops for years in comparison to desktop computers. That gulf has always existed and noting it with the gaming tier of both is redundant.
 
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