The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

It's also an excellent way to hide the screw holes ! Nicely done !
I think you're reading lone's comment the way I read it at first, i.e., that he's talking about the edge radius on the side panel flanges. But actually he's referring to the corner radius:



The corner radius does detract from the aesthetics in a minor way, but I think that's preferable to having sharp corners. It's something that dates back to my experience with the first M1 prototype, which didn't have rounded corners, and why the production version had them. It's just one of those minor concessions to user-friendliness that most people won't notice - but they would notice if the corners were painfully sharp.

Also, the primary reason for the flanges on the side panels is really to keep them straight in the front-back direction. If you recall, the M1 had some panel warping issues early on. That was largely resolved through a combination of pressing the panels flat after punching, and using tension to keep the side panels straight, but I wanted a more structural solution from the outset this time around.
 
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How strong are the magnets for fastening the dust filter for the GPU intake?
I am sure you have thought about this but are you sure it will be enough to keep the tension on it when air pressure is trying o pull it into the GPU fans?

Though the design is the same on the CPU side i suspect this issue would be a bigger concern on the GPU side as in most cases there will be more air passing through here.
 
I think you're reading lone's comment the way I read it at first, i.e., that he's talking about the edge radius on the side panel flanges. But actually he's referring to the corner radius
Ah yes, I indeed misread that as I hadn't "zoomed in" that far. Though I'm a fan of both features as you point out their usefulness. I do personally find it important for a case not to be a bag of razor blades when working inside of them, blood and electric components don't mix and I don't want to pay to get tortured.

How strong are the magnets for fastening the dust filter for the GPU intake?
I am sure you have thought about this but are you sure it will be enough to keep the tension on it when air pressure is trying o pull it into the GPU fans?
I've had this issue with the Demciflex filters, although they are very dense. But when they eventually sag, you need a finger guard to prevent them from sagging. It may also have been the cleaning that was responsible for this though.
 
How strong are the magnets for fastening the dust filter for the GPU intake?
I am sure you have thought about this but are you sure it will be enough to keep the tension on it when air pressure is trying o pull it into the GPU fans?

Though the design is the same on the CPU side i suspect this issue would be a bigger concern on the GPU side as in most cases there will be more air passing through here.
I don't think it'll be an issue. The filter material is perforated flexible plastic, but it has a certain amount of rigidity to it. I don't think a GPU's fans create anywhere near enough negative pressure to pull the filter in.
 
I've had this issue with the Demciflex filters, although they are very dense. But when they eventually sag, you need a finger guard to prevent them from sagging. It may also have been the cleaning that was responsible for this though.

Its the demciflex filter issues that made me wonder in the first place.


I don't think it'll be an issue. The filter material is perforated flexible plastic, but it has a certain amount of rigidity to it. I don't think a GPU's fans create anywhere near enough negative pressure to pull the filter in.

If they have some rigidity, you're probably right. Guess we'll find out soon when you guys get to temp testing this thing:)
 
I don't think it'll be an issue. The filter material is perforated flexible plastic, but it has a certain amount of rigidity to it. I don't think a GPU's fans create anywhere near enough negative pressure to pull the filter in.

I know you don't know, and you won't venture but....

IF you were to guess
WITHOUT any commitment to it,
a WILD call into the air...

When could the baby-cases be departing the factory after being born?

6 months? 9 months? 12 months?

I know, I know... had to ask :D
 
Hey Necere, nice design you have there - once again. Don't let Thermaltake see it!

Anyway, I have some thoughts and suggestions I'd like to get out before the project reaches the next stage, so please bear with me that I haven't read the entire thread to make sure if my questions were already answered.

1 - Is there a chance to a have powder-coated chassis or is that not an option with Lian Li? I love Lian Li, but after 15 years of brushed aluminium I'm getting tired of it. Not that much yet that I would prefer plastic over aluminium, but an "LRPC" or an "M1" with a less "noisy" surface would be a change I would welcome.

2 - Can that case actually hold "highest end" hardware? I'm not worried about the GPU since the layout is probably that best that can happen to a GPU with an open cooler design, but what about the CPU and the little clearance for decent coolers? Looking forward to games like "Star Citizen" that actually profit from CPU power I would prefer to not be limited to 65 watts CPUs (although these are certainly more than capable for most games and heavy work environments).

3 - Is the design for the horizontal stand final? I have to admit that I would prefer something like the stand of SaperPL's SENTRY case for the LRPC. I think that that would be more fitting for the "edged" appearance of your design and compliment the shape of the air intakes.

4 - I agree that the case would look better without the audio jacks, but aren't they necessary in home entertainment environment where the LRPC is used more like a console. Or are you assuming that most people will have a hi-fi setup in that environment or simply use the audio jacks of their TV?

5 - Please don't increase the depth of the case to more than 340mm. How many dual-slot GPUs with a length beyond 305mm are actually on the market? And how many people would put such a GPU in confined "SteamBox" case and pair it with a PSU that has a limited wattage? Can't be that many to justify a larger case. Don't make the same mistakes as Silverstone. 305mm are enough for every reasonable GPU on the market, especially since the layout of your case should be perfect for all the fancy high-performace dual slot open air GPUs out there.

6 - Keep the logo! It's your brand and I'm sure that everybody who owns one of your cases is proud of that exclusive piece of hardware. I know for myself that I want everybody to know that I own an Ncase (and a sticker doesn't exactly compliment the high quality of the build).

7 - You guys were discussing magnets to apply a logo badge. Have you considered cutting a dimple into the outer shell from the inside and place a magnet in that dimple? That solution wouldn't be visible from the outside, so the front of the case would be absolutely clean. But if you want to apply a logo badge, you can do that.
 
I know you don't know, and you won't venture but....

IF you were to guess
WITHOUT any commitment to it,
a WILD call into the air...

When could the baby-cases be departing the factory after being born?

6 months? 9 months? 12 months?
<6 months, we hope.

Hey Necere, nice design you have there - once again. Don't let Thermaltake see it!
Thanks. I'll throw pocket sand in their eyes.

1 - Is there a chance to a have powder-coated chassis or is that not an option with Lian Li?
Anything that LL doesn't do in-house is extra cost. So probably not.

2 - Can that case actually hold "highest end" hardware? I'm not worried about the GPU since the layout is probably that best that can happen to a GPU with an open cooler design, but what about the CPU and the little clearance for decent coolers?
Max CPU cooler height is 60mm, which is just enough for the shortest 120mm fan top-down coolers. That'll do for any socket 1151 CPU, which covers 99% of intel mini-ITX boards. Just don't expect to do any overclocking.

As far as the Asrock X99 board, that's kind of "you're on your own" territory. But Dondan ran one in his case, which only has a 48mm cooler limit.

Keep in mind that this case is under 10 liters. To get greater CPU cooling, you either have to increase the size, or give something else up.

3 - Is the design for the horizontal stand final? I have to admit that I would prefer something like the stand of SaperPL's SENTRY case for the LRPC. I think that that would be more fitting for the "edged" appearance of your design and compliment the shape of the air intakes.
Something like this? I went through many design iterations for the stand, including that one. It wasn't feasible for manufacturing, though, because of how it forms a mostly closed shape. I don't favor leaving the bottom open like the Sentry's design, because the contact points with the floor and all of the weight are on the four small and narrow edges. You need to have a rubber padding on those edges, and the Sentry's solution of a wrap-over rubber strip doesn't look that aesthetic to me, and also seems like it would pose durability issues in the long term (but I could be wrong about that).

4 - I agree that the case would look better without the audio jacks, but aren't they necessary in home entertainment environment where the LRPC is used more like a console. Or are you assuming that most people will have a hi-fi setup in that environment or simply use the audio jacks of their TV?
I'm not assuming anything, really. I think having headphone cables (or any cables) running out to a console in the living room is a poor idea. If they weren't ugly and didn't mess up everything else on the front panel, I'd be more inclined to include them just for those people that want them.

5 - Please don't increase the depth of the case to more than 340mm.
Wasn't planning on it. The current prototype just needs a few modifications to allow support for 305mm long cards, none of which include increasing the dimensions. The issue has to do with installing the card, rather than how long of a card actually fits once it's in.

6 - Keep the logo!
We are.

7 - You guys were discussing magnets to apply a logo badge.
Someone else brought that up. It's not under consideration.
 
3 - Is the design for the horizontal stand final? I have to admit that I would prefer something like the stand of SaperPL's SENTRY case for the LRPC. I think that that would be more fitting for the "edged" appearance of your design and compliment the shape of the air intakes.

I actually think that this stand the LRPC design has currently looks better for it than something like our stand. That's because LRPC is a bit bulkier and don't have the cut corners like we do. Each stand design fits properly the shape of the main bodies and that's okay. They did good job on that stand looks for LRPC.

Something like this? I went through many design iterations for the stand, including that one. It wasn't feasible for manufacturing, though, because of how it forms a mostly closed shape. I don't favor leaving the bottom open like the Sentry's design, because the contact points with the floor and all of the weight are on the four small and narrow edges. You need to have a rubber padding on those edges, and the Sentry's solution of a wrap-over rubber strip doesn't look that aesthetic to me, and also seems like it would pose durability issues in the long term (but I could be wrong about that).

We went with this kind of design since making a flat surface metal on the bottom of the stand is a really bad idea.

For once if there's grain of sand or sugar/salt on the table and you put the case on it you'll scratch the table surface with even little movements of the case. Secondarily there's nothing really flat and fully level in this world so you'll end up with case not being completely steady by lets say 1mm on one of the corners and when your pc starts running it'll shake/resonate.

As for the durability of our stand - I think that Zombi has enough experience with metal working in industrial conditions to know how to design properly a lasting metal piece. Also the rubber pads those ain't in constant friction so those shouldn't rub off too quickly and if they did after some years you can use quite common supplies to replace/fix them.
 
I think this, with or without the angle is good. Very simple yet elegant.
I have samples of both styles of stand with the prototype, and in person I think the original, non-angled style works better.
We went with this kind of design since making a flat surface metal on the bottom of the stand is a really bad idea.
I should probably mention that our stand will have rubber padding on the bottom as well.

As for the durability of our stand - I think that Zombi has enough experience with metal working in industrial conditions to know how to design properly a lasting metal piece. Also the rubber pads those ain't in constant friction so those shouldn't rub off too quickly and if they did after some years you can use quite common supplies to replace/fix them.
My concern about durability is in regard to the rubber pads, not the stand itself. I assume they're attached with adhesive? It just seems like they'd be more susceptible to becoming detached since it's relying completely on the adhesive to stay in place, compared to a rubber pad on the bottom where there's constant pressure on it.
 
Those ain't going to be glued with adhesive but industrial grade glue. Also those pads are not making much friction when moving the case so they won't tear off that way if that's what you thought.
 
Anything that LL doesn't do in-house is extra cost. So probably not.
Okay, I see. Well, it is not impossible to powder-coat brushed aluminium, right? Might have to do that then if my aversion to brushed aluminium grows.


Max CPU cooler height is 60mm, which is just enough for the shortest 120mm fan top-down coolers. That'll do for any socket 1151 CPU, which covers 99% of intel mini-ITX boards. Just don't expect to do any overclocking.
I think I will get the Silverstone Raven RVZ02 then because the internal layout of this case is very similar to your design. That will allow me to play around with the form-factor and find a powerful but still silent setup. If I'm satisfied with results, the LRPC will become my permanent enclosure. If I'm not, I will go for an Ncase M1.


Keep in mind that this case is under 10 liters. To get greater CPU cooling, you either have to increase the size, or give something else up.
Well, I wouldn't mind if the CPU-/PSU-compartment was wider, more ine the range of the Raven RVZ01, while keeping GPU-area thin for positive pressure airflow with open-air GPUs. Maybe in a future design.


Something like this? I went through many design iterations for the stand, including that one. It wasn't feasible for manufacturing, though, because of how it forms a mostly closed shape. I don't favor leaving the bottom open like the Sentry's design, because the contact points with the floor and all of the weight are on the four small and narrow edges.
Yeah, that looks more fitting for the overall aesthetics of the case in my opinion. But I understand the challenges and problems of that design. And the current stand isn't bad, don't get me wrong. I just prefer edges over curves. Maybe you could play around with a more rectangular design with diagonals. But if you consider the stand final, I won't be unhappy with it.


I'm not assuming anything, really. I think having headphone cables (or any cables) running out to a console in the living room is a poor idea.
I was stupid here. With the small size of the case it should be no hassle to plug the headphones to the rear, even in a living room environment (unless maybe if the case is stucked between a hi-fi rack, but who would hide such a beautiful case between his hi-fi equipment?). And most people will prefer the rear audio jacks anyway because they want to avoid to route the audio signals past the power supply and the other electronics inside the case.

Plus: No front-audio means one cable less to route and tuck away in a tiny case. Yay! So do away with the front-audio and the often annoying internal audio cable.


Wasn't planning on it. The current prototype just needs a few modifications to allow support for 305mm long cards, none of which include increasing the dimensions.

We are. (keeping the logo)
Glad to hear that! As for mounting extemely large graphics card (which I might do by way with an ASUS R9 390X Strix): What if the PCI-slots were a bezel that you could remove for mounting the graphics card from behind if necessary? Could that work? Might not be as elegant as the Raven RVZ02, but it should be a little trade off for keeping the case small.
 
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I have samples of both styles of stand with the prototype, and in person I think the original, non-angled style works better.

Oh you have it already? Nice! It is often hard to judge these things off of renders and/or pictures.
 
Necere, is it possible to design the side panels to be interchangeable with the same push-pin layout (already the case I think) and the same vents? The reason is that I want to place the case to the right of my monitor in vertical orientation. I just noticed that I would look at the mounting holes for the horizontal feet all the time if I put the case there. If you'd design the sidepanels to be interchangeable, I could just switch the sidepanels and the mounting holes would disappear from visual field.

Alternatively you could just make the feet for horizontal orientation adhesive, but that is probably not in line with the quality you want to achieve.
 
We are flirting with ideas that will change the design completely - will post updates when we have something to show.
 
So here's what's going on: I did some thermal testing over the weekend and I'm not entirely satisfied with the results. The CPU and PSU cooling aren't an issue, it's the GPU side and the drives that are a concern. I tested with a reference (blower) GTX 780, and while it ran at its rated clockspeed @<83C, the backside of the card and/or some components (VRMs) were obviously getting quite hot. I say obvious because while I had no way of measuring it, there was a notable smell of hot plastic, which I don't find acceptable. Now, this is a fairly hot running card (250W TDP), but it's nevertheless something the case ought to be sufficiently designed to handle. The bottom line is that you really do need some active airflow across the back of the card - relying completely on the card's fans is fine for the what the heatsink covers, but inadequate, IMO, for cooling the parts of the card it doesn't. Honestly, I should've listened to my own advice on this.

What's more, drives temps got pretty high. I had an 2TB 2.5" drive installed at the back and it saw 50C while the GPU was under load. So Saper, you were right about this, and in my theorycrafting I neglected to take into account just how well aluminum conducts heat. In fact, under GPU load conditions, the entire rear part of the case becomes completely heat saturated and basically turns into an oven for the drives. The situation might be better in a case like the RVZ02, which has the same drives-behind-the-GPU-separated-by-a-partition layout, due to the lower heat conductivity of steel and the plastic drive mounting. But clearly for an aluminum chassis, a different design is in order.

So I've looked at ways of addressing these issues with the current design, but they feel kludgy, and ultimately probably not that effective. Really what it comes down to is the need for a total rethink of the airflow layout. The RVZ01/Node202 style with the dual 120mm fans right next to the GPU is probably the best cooling layout for this size, however this does present a problem of where to mount the drives.

At this point, since we're looking at a major redesign anyway, I'm thinking about taking things in a somewhat different direction. I don't just want to do the same layout as the Node 202 in a nicer aluminum package. There are also a few other, smaller console-style projects in the works here on the forum. I have some ideas where we could go with it that are exciting to me, but they entail some technical aspects that I have to do a bit more research on. I can't say when or even if these new ideas will coalesce into a design, though. It may be that the next case we do is entirely unrelated to this.

Anyway, I apologize to those who've been waiting patiently for this case, and I hate that I have to disappoint you. But I really want to make the best product I can, and sometimes that means letting go of one thing so something better can bloom in its place.
 
So here's what's going on: I did some thermal testing over the weekend and I'm not entirely satisfied with the results. The CPU and PSU cooling aren't an issue, it's the GPU side and the drives that are a concern. I tested with a reference (blower) GTX 780, and while it ran at its rated clockspeed @<83C, the backside of the card and/or some components (VRMs) were obviously getting quite hot. I say obvious because while I had no way of measuring it, there was a notable smell of hot plastic, which I don't find acceptable. Now, this is a fairly hot running card (250W TDP), but it's nevertheless something the case ought to be sufficiently designed to handle. The bottom line is that you really do need some active airflow across the back of the card - relying completely on the card's fans is fine for the what the heatsink covers, but inadequate, IMO, for cooling the parts of the card it doesn't. Honestly, I should've listened to my own advice on this.

I'm not sure if 250W gpu isn't an overkill for such a case but at the same time you're trying to compete with RVZ02 at target end user which will probably be able to buy 980TI/TitanX.

What's more, drives temps got pretty high. I had an 2TB 2.5" drive installed at the back and it saw 50C while the GPU was under load. So Saper, you were right about this, and in my theorycrafting I neglected to take into account just how well aluminum conducts heat. In fact, under GPU load conditions, the entire rear part of the case becomes completely heat saturated and basically turns into an oven for the drives. The situation might be better in a case like the RVZ02, which has the same drives-behind-the-GPU-separated-by-a-partition layout, due to the lower heat conductivity of steel and the plastic drive mounting. But clearly for an aluminum chassis, a different design is in order.

How did you load the gpu? was it synthetic like OCCT/Furmark or just gaming? How long did the test last until you logged such temps.

As for the aluminium I think the error in your thinking was taking the unprocessed aluminium parameters instead of anodized/painted material. This way instead of quickly getting the heat in and out the cover you slowly get it inside and it quickly spreads all around the case while blocking the escape of more the incoming heat.

At some point I was like "maybe with aluminium you can do this kind of stuff without caring about thermals?" and I thought about making the cover from aluminium but we did research it and it doesn't really matter after processing except for the weight.

So I've looked at ways of addressing these issues with the current design, but they feel kludgy, and ultimately probably not that effective. Really what it comes down to is the need for a total rethink of the airflow layout. The RVZ01/Node202 style with the dual 120mm fans right next to the GPU is probably the best cooling layout for this size, however this does present a problem of where to mount the drives.

Yeah, placing the drives is the real pain in this kind of space.

About the fans - I'm not really sure if that was going to fix the problem if you still had a wall blocking that air movement out there at the back of gpu.
 
I'm not sure if 250W gpu isn't an overkill for such a case but at the same time you're trying to compete with RVZ02 at target end user which will probably be able to buy 980TI/TitanX.
Even if the current trend is toward relatively lower power GPUs, there's no telling when that might turn around again. Plus there's almost always cards at the high end that push into 250-300W territory. It really needs to have the cooling capability to deal with those high end cards, and that's especially true if we expect people to pay a premium for the case.

How did you load the gpu? was it synthetic like OCCT/Furmark or just gaming? How long did the test last until you logged such temps.
Unigine Valley and Crysis 3 were what I tested with. I didn't even bother with synthetics, since it was pretty clear what the results were going to be.

About the fans - I'm not really sure if that was going to fix the problem if you still had a wall blocking that air movement out there at the back of gpu.
I think 120mm fans positioned as they are in the Node202/RVZ01 can help push air over the back side of the card, and with sufficient exhaust vents (something the Node202 lacks) it ought to work reasonably well.
 
So here's what's going on: I did some thermal testing over the weekend and I'm not entirely satisfied with the results. The CPU and PSU cooling aren't an issue, it's the GPU side and the drives that are a concern. I tested with a reference (blower) GTX 780, and while it ran at its rated clockspeed @<83C, the backside of the card and/or some components (VRMs) were obviously getting quite hot. I say obvious because while I had no way of measuring it, there was a notable smell of hot plastic, which I don't find acceptable. Now, this is a fairly hot running card (250W TDP), but it's nevertheless something the case ought to be sufficiently designed to handle. The bottom line is that you really do need some active airflow across the back of the card - relying completely on the card's fans is fine for the what the heatsink covers, but inadequate, IMO, for cooling the parts of the card it doesn't. Honestly, I should've listened to my own advice on this.

What's more, drives temps got pretty high. I had an 2TB 2.5" drive installed at the back and it saw 50C while the GPU was under load. So Saper, you were right about this, and in my theorycrafting I neglected to take into account just how well aluminum conducts heat. In fact, under GPU load conditions, the entire rear part of the case becomes completely heat saturated and basically turns into an oven for the drives. The situation might be better in a case like the RVZ02, which has the same drives-behind-the-GPU-separated-by-a-partition layout, due to the lower heat conductivity of steel and the plastic drive mounting. But clearly for an aluminum chassis, a different design is in order.

I talked with Saper about Your design several weeks ago and i thought You would have problems with Your hdd's on the back of the GPU's PCB. I think You were thinking about the standard condictivity of the aluminium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities) and that was a mistake. Why? Because painted or anodized aluminium doesn't act in a similar way as a "clean" one. In M1 You didn't have such problem, so it didn't matter.

How did You make Your tests? OCCT is a GPU killer and in such case it can fry Your card. It doesn't make a real-life conditions but it only speeds up showing the artifacts or other errors during oc sessions. Did You make 30'-1h loop benchmarks with firestrike or simple heavy-demanding games? Same results?

EDIT:

Unigine Valley and Crysis 3 were what I tested with. I didn't even bother with synthetics, since it was pretty clear what the results were going to be.

So we have a real problem here...
 
As zalbard said I'm guessing that having a bit more venting would help. The rvz02 will provide some interesting data as it is reviewed, but dondan seems happy with the thermal performance of the Dan A4 despite having little airflow over the back of the GPU. Maybe the steam box arrangement here is caging in the GPU too much?
 
So, the SteamBox design is dead? Well, that's a bummer, but I'm not too surprised, not so much because of the engineerng challenges which I'm sure you could solve (like switch to steel for the internals and design the upper half of the case to have a "double wall" between the GPU and the HDDs) but because SilverStone already got the market for SteamBox-designs well covered with at least six cases that have virtually the same internal layout (except for the their first-gen SteamBox-cases, that are slightly wider, which some people would actually prefer over your case).

Your design approach to that format is still unique with its outer aluminium design and the cleaner and slightly more compact internals. But for the greater market it lacked uniqueness since SilverStone have introduced their SteamBox design. And with a price tag of probably near $200 (plus shipping and tax) many people would have preferred the much cheaper SilverStone cases that work just as well (or apparently even better), offer ODD-support and don't actually look that bad. Plus: There is strong competition even in this forum.

Still sad that the LRPC in its current design won't see the light of day because I think that you have perfected the SteamBox design (well, slot-in ODD support wouldn't have hurt in my opinion) and a part of me still hopes that you might continue the LRPC with a steel frame. But I understand your decision because the LRPC is not as unique as the M1 was and still is.

So, I can't wait to see what you will do next! What will it be? A Lian Li PC-19 with an internal layout that actually makes sense? A DAN A4 in a small tower format with rotated internals?

I would love to see a contribution to the uATX-market. The market for uATX-cases that are not just small midi-towers severely underrepresented. Do you remember your remake of the Sugo SG10? That would be my dream case, because I love it compact, but I also want to have the the freedom to go nuts without having to worry about wattages and temperatures. That would be the last case of my life because I would never replace it. But probably to expensive and will lack uniqueness just like the LRPC.
 
Well I'd be happy to buy your prototype for $300 as I won't be using an inefficient power hungry GPU or conventional hard drives!
 
That's sad, I really thought this was already well on its way to the market. With your case being as thick as it is, couldn't you place the HDDs vertically in some way? Maybe between PSU and mainboard?

What about using acrylic as a thermal insulator inside the GPU compartment? Or will LianLi not do that sort of thing?

SSD aren't too happy about high temperatures either though.

With a lower powered GPU, you'll not get that close to 50°C, and most SSDs if not all of them have operating temperatures of 60°C or above, so I think he'd be fine.
 
That's a pretty uprising result. The original Steambox used a 780 without any forced backside ventilation. It did have a perforated backplate, but it sits directly under a solid lid in a separate compartment, so there's nowhere for any hot air to go.
I don't know about the 'burning plastic' smell, but VRM temperatures can go much higher than normal ICs. Upwards of 100°C is no problem. If there was any residue of machining lubricant on the inside of the housing, that could be the source of the smell.
Drive temperature could still be an issue. If it really is due to conductive heating from the GPU rather than self-heating, thermal isolation (a plastic sheet, possibly rubber isolation) from the chassis wall could be sufficient.
 
I'm glad Ncase is about the result more than just the design, scrapping a "on paper" wonderful product is a hard thing to do for a designer, but if it doesn't live up to the expectations it has to go.
Often these still make it to market, even though it has some serious flaws that a redesign could fix (*cough* Lian-Li *cough*). This says a lot about the height of the bar you set yourself and I am glad you do.

So while I'm bummed I can't make you guys shut up and take my money *now*, I'm very interested and look forward to what other designs float in the brains of Ncase's Wahaha360 and Necere.
 
I'm glad Ncase is about the result more than just the design, scrapping a "on paper" wonderful product is a hard thing to do for a designer, but if it doesn't live up to the expectations it has to go.
Often these still make it to market, even though it has some serious flaws that a redesign could fix (*cough* Lian-Li *cough*). This says a lot about the height of the bar you set yourself and I am glad you do.

So while I'm bummed I can't make you guys shut up and take my money *now*, I'm very interested and look forward to what other designs float in the brains of Ncase's Wahaha360 and Necere.

+1

I'm actually waiting on my M1 V4 which is about to ship out, but have been keeping a very close eye on this thread as well. Whatever direction you guys go in with this (or a new case) keep up this ethos for high quality distinguished work. I'll definitely be there to buy it. :)
 
I'm pretty sure $300 is way low, though I'm curious how much the prototyping has actually cost so far.
 
Building a quiet PC inside an Ncase M1 is already possible with beefy air coolers, no need to complicate a build and double the costs with watercooling. At the moment I'd say the PSU's fan and GPU/PSU coil whine are the limiting factor in quiet mITX builds.
 
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