The US Owes The World $4 Trillion For Trashing The Climate

rabidz7 said:
Nuclear is what should be used. It would be almost impossible to run an entire country on renewable energy. Nuclear is safe when done properly, cheap and effective.
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Correct, Thorium Nuclear is the future worldwide.
 
lol... only 9000 phDs disagree with forum guy. U so smart . Whut was I thinking.

Point is that it's not nearly a consensus.
 
rabidz7 said:
Nuclear is what should be used. It would be almost impossible to run an entire country on renewable energy. Nuclear is safe when done properly, cheap and effective.
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Nuclear has its uses. It is great for baseline power.

There are still some engineering/political challenges to be overcome when it comes to safety and final waste disposal, but they can be overcome.

The part that is difficult to overcome is that Nuclear power is - considering all the safety standards that need to be in place - surprisingly expensive per KWH.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041850263 said:
So, just because a scientific expert isn't 100% in the field he should be disregarded, and instead we should listen to people on forums, and political think tanks backed by big oil?
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So instead we should listen to the scientist and politicians that make their money and gain power out of scaring people about man made global warming? People that go out of their way to destroy the career of anyone who dares question their agenda?
 
Zarathustra[H];1041850282 said:
Nuclear has its uses. It is great for baseline power.

There are still some engineering/political challenges to be overcome when it comes to safety and final waste disposal, but they can be overcome.

The part that is difficult to overcome is that Nuclear power is - considering all the safety standards that need to be in place - surprisingly expensive per KWH.
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Actually the main problem is political.
The cost per KWH is actually cheap due to the massive amount of power that can be supplied by a nuclear plant. The only reason current costs are high is also political, due to all the excessive studies and lawsuits.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
We should be using Nuclear all over the world and investing huge amounts of money in energy research to work toward increasing our energy reserves by thousands if not millions of fold.

Using less energy is stupid shit, making more energy in better ways is the future.

We need a radical increase in our capacity to make energy to seriously move forward, traditional chemical sources are too inefficient and they pollute too much. There's an incredible array of potential sources for vast amount of energy, but we're stuck on great grandparent's plan. My grandpa hated that plan.

If scientists could afford to lobby we would be spending a lot more on actual forward looking research. Right now there are billions being spent to shut non-corporate scientists up and get them out of the way.
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Nuclear? Are you serious? It's the most polluting of all forms of energy production. It's radioactive pollution can last tens of thousands up to hundreds & millions of years! The nuclear energy argument fails every litmus test.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041850263 said:
So, just because a scientific expert isn't 100% in the field
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Who says most of the people signing that petition are experts in climate science? It's mostly a list of people making a political statement on the issue. If they were in any position to counter actual research, they would be publishing -- and there are plenty of crappy journals happy to take it.

The fact is that they can't even pretend to offer research counter to what a bazillion other climate scientists have separately found, because they either have no knowledge of the subject or fear how easily it will be torn apart by anyone who knows the field. What those petition signers are doing isn't science, it's the foundation of denialism.
 
tikiman2012 said:
Nuclear? Are you serious? It's the most polluting of all forms of energy production. It's radioactive pollution can last tens of thousands up to hundreds & millions of years! The nuclear energy argument fails every litmus test.
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Except the dozens if not hundreds of nuclear plants floating around the world 24x7. Except for fewer large accidents than any other form of energy, and except that not a single person died because of Three Mile Island.

No dude, you're totally right, OMG nuclear is the devil.
 
choppedliver said:
Global warming scientists have a "consensus" that it's real right?
That's what the media ( controlled by liberals ) would tell you.

31,487 American scientists have signed this petition, disagreeing with the "consensus", including 9,029 with PhDs


http://www.petitionproject.org/
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In the last 20 years, more than 880,000 PhD.s have been granted in the United States of America.

The number of PhD.s employed by petrochemical companies numbers more than 150,000.

Even among people paid by the very companies that lobby to make this truth go away, only a theoretical maximum of 6% of those employees were unethical enough to side with a degenerate, nihilistic right wing movement. Never mind that those 9,029 make up less than 1% of current overall PhD.s in the United States.

If you're in a room with 239 other people who all agree the ceiling is red while you alone think there is no ceiling, you're not a visionary.

People still pretend there's hope for the American right. Conservatism is dead in the USA, it's been replaced by something truly wretched.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
Never mind that those 9,029 make up less than 1% of current overall PhD.s in the United States.
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Surprising twist: over 9000 of those came from Liberty University, whose diplomas rank #1 as single ply or better TP substitutes.
 
I have skepticism in either direction, because the only thing I "believe" is that scientists change their minds about shit often.

Smart people who think they are too smart to make errors are the dumbest of smart people.
Those fools are then followed blindly by people who read some stuff and said "yup they got it right" . Thanks for the vote of confidence, useful idiots! The idiot followers also leave no room for error. Then the blind idiot followers get on the internet and blindly dismiss the other side like they must be complete morons for reserving judgement in the face of evidence on both sides, ironically confirming what idiots they are, since they have left no room for error in their absolutely authoritative condemnation.

I "believe" only a moron believes in the absolute infallibility of science.
I "believe" unless you know everything, you can't know what is you don't know.
I "believe" scientists have quite reached omniscience.
I "believe" there is a possibility of error in my "beliefs"

But I could be wrong. :)

Science Change.
Maybe that's the one change people should "believe" in for certain.
 
Writing bounced checks and that's what everyone has been doing.
No one is giving a rat shit.
Many believe that there is a better world than this one waiting for them.
I say if that true... just fucking go now.
Pony up the Hail-Bop comet express with free shoes for every religious nut cake on the planet.
Back away from the computer... using tools of science will not convince me that your god is everyone's god. Fucking Terrorist.
Go hammer out some paper, make some ink and acquire a nice quill somewhere.
Might be interested in reading a Religious argument at that time.
Its one beautiful planet and we owe it Everything.
 
Well damn. That just invalidates everything from every scientist or smart guy ever who disagreed even the ones who aren't on that website.

Skepticism is a good thing. Blind faith in science just makes it another religion.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
In the last 20 years, more than 880,000 PhD.s have been granted in the United States of America.

The number of PhD.s employed by petrochemical companies numbers more than 150,000.

Even among people paid by the very companies that lobby to make this truth go away, only a theoretical maximum of 6% of those employees were unethical enough to side with a degenerate, nihilistic right wing movement. Never mind that those 9,029 make up less than 1% of current overall PhD.s in the United States.

If you're in a room with 239 other people who all agree the ceiling is red while you alone think there is no ceiling, you're not a visionary.

People still pretend there's hope for the American right. Conservatism is dead in the USA, it's been replaced by something truly wretched.
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Remember - people who disagree with you aren't wrong, they're evil. They only disagree with you out of the darkness of their hearts - because they're evil. They are so evil that eventually we must do the virtuous thing and shut them down. We must strike at them and eliminate them if need be. Remember, we are the righteous and believing, and only the purity of our convictions can hold us true from the temptations of wretched, evil men.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203764804577059841672541590

Formulation of Question -> Hypothesis (must be falsifiable) -> Prediction -> Testing -> Analysis -> Replication -> External Review -> Data Recording and Sharing.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific technological elite.
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tikiman2012 said:
Nuclear? Are you serious? It's the most polluting of all forms of energy production. It's radioactive pollution can last tens of thousands up to hundreds & millions of years! The nuclear energy argument fails every litmus test.
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Incorrect, many high end nuclear reactors have a fraction of a percent of waste byproduct (ie the Can-Do Nuclear reactor) and that waste can be either reused for other application or safely disposed of, however your opinion is also the opinion of the general public (which Apple has proven are idiots), which is why Nuclear is a no go. We will just happily pollute away until either:

A) We die from a mass extinction (you won't live through it, some might, but not you or me)

B) Someone invents a technology to reverse global warming, then all bets are off, but some/many will still likely die off.

2015, still denying man made climate change...
 
choppedliver said:
I have skepticism in either direction, because the only thing I "believe" is that scientists change their minds about shit often.
But I could be wrong. :)
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And you are wrong.
You know little about Science and about the scientific method.
Typical ignorance.
Science has nothing to do with belief.
Blow away everything tomorrow and Science will discover the Same things about the natural world.
However the gobbly gook crap that spews out the mouths of the religious will change as it does across every culture all through human history.
 
choppedliver said:
Skepticism is a good thing. Blind faith in science just makes it another religion.
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I think I get what your saying, that if you just blindly follow the herd without questioning anything, any thing can become a religion. That being said, if your a true scientist, you don't follow the herd but the scientific method, which by its nature is skeptical and critical. If your not follow that, you are not a scientist.
 
choppedliver said:
Well damn. That just invalidates everything from every scientist or smart guy ever who disagreed even the ones who aren't on that website.

Skepticism is a good thing. Blind faith in science just makes it another religion.
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There is NO FAITH is science.
Science is a tool. Nothing more.
Scientist did manage to hit Small planet 6 billion miles away totally Blindfolded using the tools of Science.
Only Morons confuse Science with Religion.
Many important Scientists are also people of deep and Various faiths.
 
Revdarian said:
Correct, Thorium Nuclear is the future worldwide.
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Thorium reactors are the future of Nuclear power... still hoping for the fusion breakthru.
There is no disposal for nuclear waste in the US.
Yuka mountain has been lost to an internal spill. There is nothing else.
NuPower in Corvallis Oregon is building Modular nuclear reactors based off of declassified Submarine reactors.
No repair and no refueling.
Once turned on they burn for about 60 years for 40,000 homes and then get buried.
If they break they get replaced not fixed.
Its the real deal and ship to the Midwest next year.
 
erexx said:
There is NO FAITH is science.
Science is a tool. Nothing more.
Scientist did manage to hit Small planet 6 billion miles away totally Blindfolded using the tools of Science.
Only Morons confuse Science with Religion.
Many important Scientists are also people of deep and Various faiths.
Click to expand...

Science is a process, not a tool. A great many scientists have succumbed to beliefs in something even though it has been proven wrong time and time again - just take a look at alchemy. Even such luminaries as Tycho Brahe and Isaac Newton got caught up in that silliness.
 
So does the US have to still pay this even though we already bailed out the entire planet with US taxpayer money?
 
erexx said:
Thorium reactors are the future of Nuclear power... still hoping for the fusion breakthru.
There is no disposal for nuclear waste in the US.
Yuka mountain has been lost to an internal spill. There is nothing else.
NuPower in Corvallis Oregon is building Modular nuclear reactors based off of declassified Submarine reactors.
No repair and no refueling.
Once turned on they burn for about 60 years for 40,000 homes and then get buried.
If they break they get replaced not fixed.
Its the real deal and ship to the Midwest next year.
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Yucca Mountain? Closed in 2011 for political reasons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain_nuclear_waste_repository

In August 2013, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ordered the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to either "approve or reject the Energy Department's application for [the] never-completed waste storage site at Nevada's Yucca Mountain."[76] The court opinion said that the NRC was "simply flouting the law" in its previous action to allow the Obama administration to continue plans to close the proposed waste site since a federal law designating Yucca Mountain as the nation's nuclear waste repository remains in effect. The court opinion stated that "The president may not decline to follow a statutory mandate or prohibition simply because of policy objections."[76]
 
We should start charging all these wildfires and volcano's spewing all those toxins into the air too, with a mother nature tax :rolleyes:
 
flashoverride said:
Science is a process, not a tool. A great many scientists have succumbed to beliefs in something even though it has been proven wrong time and time again - just take a look at alchemy. Even such luminaries as Tycho Brahe and Isaac Newton got caught up in that silliness.
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A tool can be simple and complex.
Making it a hammer or a processor.
It is both so I don't see a need to argue this.

Because we are human and make mistakes we need tools to help us see.

We disagree on Alchemy. Particularly its history.
Alchemy came first out of belief or imagination.
Not sure why you would confuse the two when alchemy led to the chemical sciences and the Scientific method in general.
It was an evolution in thought.

Imagination and belief inst going to launch a rocket to the stars or explain why your crops are failing and your kids are starving.
 
tikiman2012 said:
Nuclear? Are you serious? It's the most polluting of all forms of energy production. It's radioactive pollution can last tens of thousands up to hundreds & millions of years! The nuclear energy argument fails every litmus test.
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This is the least informed post I've read all day. Just because something has the potential to be dangerous doesn't mean it can't be done safely. The fact that you fear progress doesn't mean the rest of us should be held back.
 
it's pretty obvious climate change is real, and that humanity can play a decisive role in its evolution.

It's also pretty obvious that asking the largest serial polluters on the planet to fix the problem is asking the fox to guard the hen house. If you think government has the solution to the climate change problem, you're gonna be in for a bad time.
 
spintroniX said:
it's pretty obvious climate change is real, and that humanity can play a decisive role in its evolution.

It's also pretty obvious that asking the largest serial polluters on the planet to fix the problem is asking the fox to guard the hen house. If you think government has the solution to the climate change problem, you're gonna be in for a bad time.
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Could not Agree more.
 
erexx said:
There is NO FAITH is science.
Science is a tool. Nothing more.
Scientist did manage to hit Small planet 6 billion miles away totally Blindfolded using the tools of Science.
Only Morons confuse Science with Religion.
Many important Scientists are also people of deep and Various faiths.
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I didn't say science is a religion. I said blind faith in science makes it a religion.

In other words, people with blind faith in science are just acting like science is a religion because they follow it without question. A lot of them seem to be attending church today on this thread.

But go ahead and twist words and beat on your chest, because you like everyone else on a forum is infallible and has your own divisive rhetoric, with your name calling and absolutes, which only serves to push people further apart on issues rather than make them coexist and cooperate and try to work together.

Let's just incinerate everyone on the planet who you think is a moron, or less intelligent than you. That's the way people treat others on forums simply because they may have a different opinion. All it does is enforce the divisiveness of the country. Guess what? Even fucking geniuses in their field have different opinions about controversial topics. I wonder if two geniuses working in the same lab sit around denigrating each other like so many people do on the internet?

There I go, spewing stuff again.
I'm ready for incineration. This earth is filled with humans. That's the fucking real tragedy.
 
OK, fine, lets concede that all the scientists of worth agree that we are going to bake because of the US and its SUVs. Fine i get it. So what are we going to do about it? All the scientists have come together and agreed on what the problem is.

So whats the solution provided? The only solution that seems to be agreed upon is not a solution but is instead a business model which was devised long before Gore started his climate campaign. Its a business model created by brokers that needed another market of stocks to trade with. This model suggests that evil country (USA) because of its manufacturing and world wide exporting is the most responsive and therefore must pay $4 trillion to other countries that are suffering because of our excess. Of those countries are in fact some of the wort polluters of the world, but they aren't evil.

So in order to save the environment and its inhabitants the scientific community (or at least those with popular accreditation) have determined that in order for the world to heal, money must be exchanged between countries.
 
Every animal life form - including humans - exhales CO2. The end result of pushing for carbon taxes and penalties is going to be this: You will be taxed for simply breathing. You will be punished for simply existing. Anything you do above the baseline minimum of what is deemed tolerable will be classified as hurtful, unnecessary, selfish, greedy, and a crime against the planet. Your every move will be calculated against its carbon footprint... meanwhile the elites of society that "know better than you" will be exempt, as their role in shepherding the masses will be weighed as a "necessary evil", and so they'll afford themselves every luxury that is denied to the common man.

That is where this road will go... and if it sounds familiar, it's because it is just Communism being sold in a new wrapper.
 
choppedliver said:
I didn't say science is a religion. I said blind faith in science makes it a religion.
There I go, spewing stuff again.
I'm ready for incineration. This earth is filled with humans. That's the fucking real tragedy.
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Blind faith... take it for what its worth.
In a fox hole its priceless.
I didn't intend to paint you as evil and I don't own a flame thrower... yet.

As for religion there is more than one on this planet.
People are killing each other over it. That is moronic.
Don't see people killing each other the Weather Forecast, iPads, pics of Pluto, heart medicines or treatments for various diseases.
But Fuck science when it says something I dont like.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041850263 said:
So, just because a scientific expert isn't 100% in the field he should be disregarded, and instead we should listen to people on forums, and political think tanks backed by big oil?

laughingsmiley.gif~c200
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Get a grip. He's saying that the so called petition the one climate denier dude posted that all those scientists supposedly signed is not relevant because the vast majority of them do not practice in the field of climate. So no he doesn't think big oil commissioned propaganda should be listened to....
 
the only way everyone in the world can live like the US is nuclear power

there is simply not enough room or resources for wind and solar on that level
 
tikiman2012 said:
Nuclear? Are you serious? It's the most polluting of all forms of energy production. It's radioactive pollution can last tens of thousands up to hundreds & millions of years! The nuclear energy argument fails every litmus test.
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watch Pandora's Promise or just keep thing what big oil wants you too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDw3ET3zqxk


total number of deaths to nuclear accidents according to the WHO... 18....
 
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