AMD, Roy Taylor, the Nano, and the Press @ [H]

Cobalt35 said:
I think we're all wasting our time trying to get this point across. Cobalt35 et all aren't interested in the real reasons behind this because they very deliberately choose not to see them. All they can see is that AMD and then others following have made some disparaging remarks about their lord and saviour Kyle. Any reasoning behind that is lost in the lathering sweat they work up in defense of said saviour. There are none so blind as those who will not see, not because they can't but because they choose not to.
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Funny how changing just two or three words of your rant throws them all right back in your face. You need a chill pill.

Nobody is saying AMD is blameless. But at least at few of us can see that Kyle brought some of this on himself. He was very indiscrete with a few comments that were probably best left unsaid. Or simply said in private. But NOT posted on a public forum, even his own.
 
AMD just lost me and (try as I might) everyone I talk to about hardware for the rest of my life unless they do something spectacular, honest, and redeeming.

Despite his flaws, I believe Kyle is honest. Those representing and managing AMD aren't, despite their flaws.

Thanks for the transparency, no matter how ugly it may be.
 
Creig said:
Funny how changing just two or three words of your rant throws them all right back in your face. You need a chill pill.

Nobody is saying AMD is blameless. But at least at few of us can see that Kyle brought some of this on himself. He was very indiscrete with a few comments that were probably best left unsaid. Or simply said in private. But NOT posted on a public forum, even his own.
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If AMD can't withstand some warranted criticism over paper launches and a late, overpriced, under-performing card then they need to get out of the business of selling to the public.

Look at all the criticism that's been leveled at Kyle in the past 24 hours. If he was AMD he would have shriveled and died by now.

What of the other two sites that were disparaged as well? Did they also supposedly step on AMDs toes in some sort of public forum? If AMD wants to withhold a review card from any given site then that's perfectly up to them and nobody here besides those defending AMD is saying otherwise. This is all about AMD saying that [H] and two other sites do not provide fair (read: unbiased) reviews. I don't know how many times this point has to be made before it gets through to people. As I said, people refuse to see it.

Instead of rhetoric, point us to a review that was unfair and biased. You have the entire [H] review history at your fingertips. Show us one.
 
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There's a time to be nice. Then there's time for a

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Thanks for taking the time to reply Kyle. I posted a bit later in this thread, as no i hadnt realized that it was shit behaviour from AMD to get a Nano review on the hardocp forum.

Cheers man.
 
Flopper said:
Kyle basically whine and cried in his post. He has a beef with some guy and then make that to be about AMD also. If he truly didnt care about the card and getting one he would not have made the post..................................................................get it?
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This issue wasn't about not getting a nano, it was about a guy that verbally in a public forum attacked the integrity and reputation of a reviewer and journalist.

The Gonz said:
Kyle wasn't personally attacked. His business (read: livelihood) was attacked when Roy insinuated this site doesn't give our fair reviews.
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When they claimed the site was unfair i would say that could be considered personal since it goes after something you put many years and long hours in to building.

PiSquared said:
Seconded. I'm planning a build and would snap up a Nano in a heartbeat for $349. I'd consider a Fury at $399 and a Fury X at $449. At their current prices? Not a chance.
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No one expects the card will be that cheap for a LONG time. Even when Fury X was rumored price it was 850$ so what does that tell ya about price as it stands? They had to take a massive profit hit to keep it on price with nvidia's card. Seems like a lot of people have forgot that 980/970 forces prices down and 980ti also forced lower price.

Momo said:
Kyle, did that read that right? [H] pulled an [H] user's review / build log of a Nano because they did not get to review it first? if that's the case, that seems really petty. I don't get why you would punish the [H] user who put the time in to build / review around the Nano... unless of course you feel that his/her post in the build logs forum somehow would be considered representative of the [H]? ... or maybe you felt that he/she somehow influenced the [H] not receiving said sample? both seem really far fetched.
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Well when AMD PR piss's and shits on your integrity and reputation, but yet expects you to foot the bill for their modders PR campaign to sell the card. That is just adding insult to injury. Yes it does cost money to host that those pictures in terms of bandwidth and storage. You don't piss on something someone spent 20 some odd years building and not expect them to defend it.
 
trick_m0nkey said:
All you people saying [H] "could have handled this more professionally" are acting like a bunch of pussies. There's a time to be professional, and there's a time to throw down. It's an [H] tradition to dismantle bullshit in a public forum. If you don't like that, go read Anandtech or something.
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Like I said before, if you consider yourself an asshole and act like one, expect to be treated like one. People don't like assholes...big surprise. "Throwing down" will only get you so far before people just say "hey, he's an asshole, I'm not going to deal with him anymore", which may end up being the case here.

I think Kyle will end up either 1. placing foot in mouth or 2. on AMD's ignore list. It shouldn't be a surprise for someone with such an apparent abrasive personality.
 
SRTie4k said:
Like I said before, if you consider yourself an asshole and act like one, expect to be treated like one. People don't like assholes...big surprise. "Throwing down" will only get you so far before people just say "hey, he's an asshole, I'm not going to deal with him anymore", which may end up being the case here.

I think Kyle will end up either 1. placing foot in mouth or 2. on AMD's ignore list. It shouldn't be a surprise for someone with such an apparent abrasive personality.
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You still don't get it.
 
Cobalt35 said:
This and a hundred times this. The day Kyle starts to dial it back is the day this site becomes like almost every other site.
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Kyle blasting the Nano's price is pretty much in line with how they write. When a product doesn't fit a sensible niche in the market they tend to call it out pretty bluntly, but I haven't seen it have any sort of lingering effect on reviews of later products. Anyone else remember when they ripped Sandy Bridge E (see below)? It sure didn't stop Kyle from giving Skylake a glowing review.

"But let me say this, while Intel has been beating the drum about this being the "Ultimate Desktop Processor for Gamers," I think that is a lot of horse shit."
and
"But I guess if you are looking for a new way to heat your computer room this winter, Sandy Bridge E should be on your short list. Maybe they will start selling these at Home Depot?"

Pure gold. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read that the first time.
 
SRTie4k said:
Like I said before, if you consider yourself an asshole and act like one, expect to be treated like one. People don't like assholes...big surprise. "Throwing down" will only get you so far before people just say "hey, he's an asshole, I'm not going to deal with him anymore", which may end up being the case here.

I think Kyle will end up either 1. placing foot in mouth or 2. on AMD's ignore list. It shouldn't be a surprise for someone with such an apparent abrasive personality.
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People like you have been saying the same thing for the 10 years I've been here. AMD, nVidia, Intel, Boutique Vendors, I've seen almost all the major players and their defenders.

[H] is still here, they are still one of the largest hardware review sites in the world, and they are not going away.

If what you call an asshole is what it takes to call out bullshit in the industry, then the world needs more assholes.
 
Cobalt35 said:
Instead of rhetoric, point us to a review that was unfair and biased. You have the entire [H] review history at your fingertips. Show us one.
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Anyone? If it's enough of a concern that AMD publicly state it then it must be easy to find one, surely?
 
Cobalt35 said:
Anyone? If it's enough of a concern that AMD publicly state it then it must be easy to find one, surely?
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Unfair? No. Biased? Depends on what you are talking about. Largely I would say no. But given i have a hardware testing background the inclusion of the Gameworks titles is problematic because they are guaranteed to give the same result every single time.

I'm talking from a scientific standpoint. It's almost like asking if 1+1 will ever equal two. You can guess the outcome, which means it's bad for determining performance because there are other tests which show the opposite. This is different from AMD and Intel performance in CPUs. In that case it doesn't matter what test you throw at a AMD CPU chip at this point. It's guaranteed to lose no matter the test set you are using. The same isn't the case for GPU's. They are far more competitive here. So depending on a work load one or other will succeed. For example if I fed a Nvidia chip a OpenCL workload it would likely lose to the AMD setup. If I fed it a CUDA workload it would likely blow the AMD chip out of the water, or more realistically the AMD chip would not run at all.

For that reason no matter if you like AMD or like Nvidia the selection of tests should be as varied as possible. Whatever can show the most varied type of workloads would actually show the true performance of either in my book. That's my opinion. You can disagree with it and that's your opinion as well.
 
SRTie4k said:
Like I said before, if you consider yourself an asshole and act like one, expect to be treated like one. People don't like assholes...big surprise. "Throwing down" will only get you so far before people just say "hey, he's an asshole, I'm not going to deal with him anymore", which may end up being the case here.

I think Kyle will end up either 1. placing foot in mouth or 2. on AMD's ignore list. It shouldn't be a surprise for someone with such an apparent abrasive personality.
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[H]ardOCP has been doing the same thing for longer than a lot of our readers have been alive (18 years), so our style is not exactly "news" to AMD or anyone with a computer. That said, it's a good thing that you weren't around in the "old days" when there were less corporate sites and more independent sites around. Holding companies accountable, individual sites working together even to hold companies accountable and having each others back in the face of these much larger companies, and having to have interactions with vendors that are difficult at times is part of the job and certainly not for everyone; especially corporate sites that are dominate today. Everyone flaming Tom's don't crap yourself when you read that link.
 
I can't find the editorial about Intel the last time [H] didn't get a sample from them. Am I missing it?
 
kac77 said:
Unfair? No. Biased? Depends on what you are talking about. Largely I would say no. But given i have a hardware testing background the inclusion of the Gameworks titles is problematic because they are guaranteed to give the same result every single time.

I'm talking from a scientific standpoint. It's almost like asking if 1+1 will ever equal two. You can guess the outcome, which means it's bad for determining performance because there are other tests which show the opposite. This is different from AMD and Intel performance in CPUs. In that case it doesn't matter what test you throw at a AMD CPU chip at this point. It's guaranteed to lose no matter the test set you are using. The same isn't the case for GPU's. They are far more competitive here. So depending on a work load one or other will succeed. For example if I fed a Nvidia chip a OpenCL workload it would likely lose to the AMD setup. If I fed it a CUDA workload it would likely blow the AMD chip out of the water, or more realistically the AMD chip would not run at all.

For that reason no matter if you like AMD or like Nvidia the selection of tests should be as varied as possible. Whatever can show the most varied type of workloads would actually show the true performance of either in my book. That's my opinion. You can disagree with it and that's your opinion as well.
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Did you complain when they included Tomb Raider with AMD's TressFX in it?
 
I gotta hand it to Kyle. When someone fires bullshit at him, his reply is a full broadside.

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I would have thought AMD would have remembered this hard lesson after the whole "HardOCP is not AMD's personal PR bitch" back in 2005-2006.
 
Cobalt35 said:
Did you complain when they included Tomb Raider with AMD's TressFX in it?
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Well to be honest at first I didn't like it (I literally have never bought an AMD card for home use...yet). I would really prefer games that aren't showcasing AMD or Nvidia technology. But so far I've seen this test several times where Nvidia wins and AMD loses and vice-vera so as of now because of this it's a decent test. It seems to show that when Nvidia has a chance to do it's thing that it's slightly better for this game. But from a hardware testing scenario variety would be the best thing in all cases. So I look at the collection to tell me the best buy not a single game. Since I use Linux very heavily and you look at my response to you I think you can see that I'm looking at a variety of workloads. So the worst thing is looking at a test suite that will provide an answer that the previous game already told me.

Essentially what I'm saying is that reviews for me need to answer a variety of questions. When they don't they aren't as useful as other collections of testing that show more variety.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
[H]ardOCP has been doing the same thing for longer than a lot of our readers have been alive (18 years), so our style is not exactly "news" to AMD or anyone with a computer. That said, it's a good thing that you weren't around in the "old days" when there were less corporate sites and more independent sites around. Holding companies accountable, individual sites working together even to hold companies accountable and having each others back in the face of these much larger companies, and having to have interactions with vendors that are difficult at times is part of the job and certainly not for everyone; especially corporate sites that are dominate today. Everyone flaming Tom's don't crap yourself when you read that link.
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That was when Tom's was still Tom's. I still have his book around somewhere.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
[H]ardOCP has been doing the same thing for longer than a lot of our readers have been alive (18 years), so our style is not exactly "news" to AMD or anyone with a computer. That said, it's a good thing that you weren't around in the "old days" when there were less corporate sites and more independent sites around. Holding companies accountable, individual sites working together even to hold companies accountable and having each others back in the face of these much larger companies, and having to have interactions with vendors that are difficult at times is part of the job and certainly not for everyone; especially corporate sites that are dominate today. Everyone flaming Tom's don't crap yourself when you read that link.
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Eh THG was good, for the most part, up until Tom left. Now, I never go there.
 
Billing Information : Kyle R Bennett

Shipping Information: Brent Justice

________________________________________


Invoice Number: 1305XXXXX
Invoice Date: 9/10/2015 1:52:12 PM


XFX Radeon R9 Fury Nano R9-NANO-4SF6 4GB 4096-Bit HBM PCI Express 3.0 CrossFireX Support Video Card 1 $649.99
 
I figured that these corporate people would have learned from Adam Orth (the Microsoft employee that insulted people on twitter over the Xbox one) that turning to twitter without controlling your emotions and lacking a modicum of common sense usually ends in disaster.

Coming from somebody that has an hd 7990 sitting in the closet and uses a 295x2 currently, AMD/ATI likely just helped me decide my money in the near future will better be spent with NVIDIA.
 
polydiol said:
I figured that these corporate people would have learned from Adam Orth (the Microsoft employee that insulted people on twitter over the Xbox one) that turning to twitter without controlling your emotions and lacking a modicum of common sense usually ends in disaster.

Coming from somebody that has an hd 7990 sitting in the closet and uses a 295x2 currently, AMD/ATI likely just helped me decide my money in the near future will better be spent with NVIDIA.
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Bad pr people seem to never learn. If they did they would actually take a minute or two to consider their responses on social media. It's not like they have to respond the moment they see a Tweet directed at them. They also always seem quite surprised when someone calls them out on their bull and they get in trouble for it.
 
kac77 said:
Well to be honest at first I didn't like it (I literally have never bought an AMD card for home use...yet). I would really prefer games that aren't showcasing AMD or Nvidia technology. But so far I've seen this test several times where Nvidia wins and AMD loses and vice-vera so as of now because of this it's a decent test. It seems to show that when Nvidia has a chance to do it's thing that it's slightly better for this game. But from a hardware testing scenario variety would be the best thing in all cases. So I look at the collection to tell me the best buy not a single game. Since I use Linux very heavily and you look at my response to you I think you can see that I'm looking at a variety of workloads. So the worst thing is looking at a test suite that will provide an answer that the previous game already told me.

Essentially what I'm saying is that reviews for me need to answer a variety of questions. When they don't they aren't as useful as other collections of testing that show more variety.
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Do you buy games because they don't have AMD/NVIDIA logos on them? Is that how you play? If so, [H] isn't the place for you.

I and many PC gamers care about the latest and greatest of games, regardless of the technology used. Sometimes it's AMD's, often than not it's NVIDIA's, who cares? It's nobody's fault but AMD's for providing what developers see as an inferior package.

Regarding GameWorks, yes it perfoms poorly, but it's platform agnostic. And it's a step in the right direction. Graphics have stagnated in the past few years. GameWorks does add value to a game, but right now the cost is too high. There's a market there, why can't AMD go for it? Why does nobody use the supposedly better TressFX and instead opt for GameWorks features?

And the 2 times AMD cry foul on GameWorks stuff? pCars was bottlenecked by their terrible DX11 drivers. Witcher 3 HairWorks shits on all GPUs pretty much the same way. Yeah the default pre-patch settings was overkill, but the devs were free to change the defaults as the please. Them not exposing or changing defaults is the devs' fault.
 
trandoanhung1991 said:
Do you buy games because they don't have AMD/NVIDIA logos on them? Is that how you play? If so, [H] isn't the place for you.

I and many PC gamers care about the latest and greatest of games, regardless of the technology used. Sometimes it's AMD's, often than not it's NVIDIA's, who cares? It's nobody's fault but AMD's for providing what developers see as an inferior package.

Regarding GameWorks, yes it perfoms poorly, but it's platform agnostic. And it's a step in the right direction. Graphics have stagnated in the past few years. GameWorks does add value to a game, but right now the cost is too high. There's a market there, why can't AMD go for it? Why does nobody use the supposedly better TressFX and instead opt for GameWorks features?

And the 2 times AMD cry foul on GameWorks stuff? pCars was bottlenecked by their terrible DX11 drivers. Witcher 3 HairWorks shits on all GPUs pretty much the same way. Yeah the default pre-patch settings was overkill, but the devs were free to change the defaults as the please. Them not exposing or changing defaults is the devs' fault.
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AMD's problem with Gaming Evolved stuff seems to be in how it's packaged. AMD has good tech but the lack of a good middleware solution like Nvidia provides might be biting them in the ass.
 
trandoanhung1991 said:
Do you buy games because they don't have AMD/NVIDIA logos on them? Is that how you play? If so, [H] isn't the place for you.
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LOL. Um I have a sick library of games from Steam many don't have either. If you think I'm odd in that then that's your problem not mine. I will do what I want and stay if I can and contribute where I can. My points have absolutely nothing to do with what you think they do. Some of the games I have work great on Nvidia some less so. It depends on what I'm throwing at the card. So variety matters because I have a variety of games and workloads. [H] is a place for me because there's no other place that appreciates sick cabling, great product selection, custom case work , and i like helping people generally. That's why I come here if you think the Nano crap is why i come here you obviously don't know me. In terms of me commenting on this topic, well how could I miss it? It's like someone throwing a condom in the middle of the floor during gangbang. i think i'm going to notice it and have an opinion.

trandoanhung1991 said:
I and many PC gamers care about the latest and greatest of games, regardless of the technology used. Sometimes it's AMD's, often than not it's NVIDIA's, who cares? It's nobody's fault but AMD's for providing what developers see as an inferior package.
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As I said before running a test with a guaranteed outcome doesn't help. Be it from AMD or Nvidia. It seems you think i am some shill that wants to talk about Nvidia vs AMD. I'm not. This is the only time in my entire life visiting this site where i've been like, "um." 6.7 Years doesn't even scratch the damn surface for the amount time i've spent here. What I'm talking about is creating a testing suite that answers questions. Having a collection of titles that say the same thing over and over because their technology is the same doesn't answer anything but one question. It's helpful for that one question but if I have any others it's less than helpful.
 
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HOOfan_1 said:
It's been bought, now it is about to be brought
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We are not in a rush and will likely let all this die down some before we get into it. We are working on a CrossFire/SLI article with all the new cards at 4K.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
Well shit. Looks like AMD held firm on that outrageous price.

I firmly believe AMD had a chance to pull a fast one on Nvidia like they did with the HD4xxx series. Cards with 90% of the performance of the competition's top tiers, but almost half the price. I miss those days. My HD4850 was one of my favorite cards I ever owned.
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Crossfired 4770s myself...god that was a great deal lol...the stock cooler too...
 
they could have easily said that they didn't have enough stock to give reviewers, but that would be a lie. i like that at least they are honest about which press sites they dont like. they probably knew about the coil whine and other issues well before and planned for this.
 
they did, that's what they told TPU lol, Roy screwed up the lie by mouthing off :p
 
Called him out on HDMI 2.0 missing. He claimed displayport is what only matters. I had to really laugh at that.
 
The problem is is objectivity. For example Hardware Canucks reviewed the Nano perfectly without bullshit personal bias and did point out how much it costs and that you can put a 980ti in most cases the Nano goes into. Its up to the USER TO DECIDE. This has been the issue from the start with H and other websites.

People take this shit WAY WAY too personal as if the card is shit from the get go. It has practically the same FPS as the watercooled models and being twice smaller. Yes its a bit much in terms of price BUT SO FUCKING WHAT? It doesnt make the card bad, it is what it is. Review it, point out the negatives but dont let your personal bias take over the whole fucking review.

You basically deemed the card shit without ever touching it. Good job.
 
Igroock said:
The problem is is objectivity. For example Hardware Canucks reviewed the Nano perfectly without bullshit personal bias and did point out how much it costs and that you can put a 980ti in most cases the Nano goes into. Its up to the USER TO DECIDE. This has been the issue from the start with H and other websites.

People take this shit WAY WAY too personal as if the card is shit from the get go. It has practically the same FPS as the watercooled models and being twice smaller. Yes its a bit much in terms of price BUT SO FUCKING WHAT? It doesnt make the card bad, it is what it is. Review it, point out the negatives but dont let your personal bias take over the whole fucking review.

You basically deemed the card shit without ever touching it. Good job.
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So you are saying you would rather get a Nano then a Fury X?

I mean the Nano is slower.....and the same price. All Kyle did was state the obvious ITS FUCKING OVER PRICED AS HELL.

IF you want a small video card in an ITX case, get a Fury X.
 
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