NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

QinX said:
Nice mod but that radiator is getting 0 air, how are stressed temps?
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Without the filter, assuming my calculations aren't way off, it looks like the area available for air to flow through is about double (2434mm^2 vs 1140.6mm^2), but taking into account fluid/aerodynamics, it's probably not that simple.

The numbers I used, for the curious (results could be way different if my assumed values are off):
Code: 
Stock:
(42 * 18) + (41 * 17) = 1453 holes.
3.14 * .5mm^2 * 1453 = 1140.605mm^2
Mod:
1 * ((100 * 19) + (110 * 2)) = 2120mm^2
10 * (3.14 * 10) = 314mm^2
314mm^2 + 2120mm^2 = 2434mm^2
(1mm wide, with a 10mm diameter curve at each end and 100mm straights [110 on the first and last])
 
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Phuncz said:
vSpO3A1.png
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Must have been asked several times already... but where did you buy these plastic end caps (instead of the cables pass-through ones)?
 
Someone has already done that in the past, I believe it made thermal performance worse. Having an entirely open case changes the characteristics of the cooling. When you have a case with a decent intake and exhaust, it will perform like a wind-tunnel. But when you "open" the case too much, it becomes "caseless" and removes the wind-tunnel effect.

Look at most enterprise server and workstation hardware. Or Apple's Mac Pro, old and new. All have a shape that has a distinct intake and distinct exhaust area so airflow is used not to move air in a cone, but to force it through a certain path.
 
Okay, I just got my NCase (bought a v2 from someone here in [H]).

I realize now that there is no way that I'm not going to get it working ASAP. I need it. I want it.

Anyone else here with a v2 that's willing to share their specs and recommendations for building? At this point I'm just going to go to Microcenter and buy everything I need and get this thing up and running.
 
I recently put a Noctua NF-A9 redux (92mm) fan as an intake on my M1. Is it normal for this fan to sort of rev up and run at 100% on boot/wake from sleep? My heatsink (NH-L9x65) fan doesn't do this so I'm curious.
 
@Necere

I picked up my dual fan bracket that I ordered today, but it came w/ a pretty serious bend (packaging was pretty abused too) in it. I sent an email w/ pictures to the support email - just posting here for visibility. It wasn't packaged very well by whoever packaged it, just the bracket in a plastic baggie inside a rectangular box - no foam or anything to help protect it.
 
Nobu said:
Without the filter, assuming my calculations aren't way off, it looks like the area available for air to flow through is about double (2434mm^2 vs 1140.6mm^2), but taking into account fluid/aerodynamics, it's probably not that simple.

The numbers I used, for the curious (results could be way different if my assumed values are off):
Code: 
Stock:
(42 * 18) + (41 * 17) = 1453 holes.
3.14 * .5mm^2 * 1453 = 1140.605mm^2
Mod:
1 * ((100 * 19) + (110 * 2)) = 2120mm^2
10 * (3.14 * 10) = 314mm^2
314mm^2 + 2120mm^2 = 2434mm^2
(1mm wide, with a 10mm diameter curve at each end and 100mm straights [110 on the first and last])
Click to expand...

The hole size you used is too small.
Here is my calculation.

Assuming the M1 uses the standard Lian Li hole pattern which are 2.95mm in diameter (I measured a Lian Li PC-Q08 Side panel I have)
a 2.95mm hole has a surface area of 3.14*1.475^2=6.835mm²
1453 holes
1453*6.835= 9931.255mm² or around 100cm^2

The modded panel has a practicaly continuous Serpent shaped pattern.
I've crudely mocked up the M1 side panel and roughly copied the pattern in the picture, making sure I slight oversize mine.
I've got 125mm high straights and 7.5mm radii
the total length of the pattern is taken from my CAD software at 3000mm. Lets take a couple of different width for the cut itself.
3000x1.0=30cm²
3000x1.5=45cm²
3000x2.0=60cm²
3000x2.5=75cm²
3000x3.0=90cm²

Looking at the photo 3.0 seems about right, maybe 2.5mm as well

So my earlier comment saying that radiator is getting no air is wrong, it's almost getting the same amount, go figure.
Surface areas:
Original M1: ~100cm²
Modded M1: ~90cm²
 
The_Oasis said:
Okay, I just got my NCase (bought a v2 from someone here in [H]).

I realize now that there is no way that I'm not going to get it working ASAP. I need it. I want it.

Anyone else here with a v2 that's willing to share their specs and recommendations for building? At this point I'm just going to go to Microcenter and buy everything I need and get this thing up and running.
Click to expand...

Have you checked out the Google spreadsheet?
 
ghostwich said:
Have you checked out the Google spreadsheet?
Click to expand...

I have, and I'm trying to put together something right now. It seems that the H97i is a good bet, along with the Noctua L9i. I'm not too sure about the PSU yet, though, so I might actually just run with my ATX PSU until the Corsair one comes out (though, I'd have to make sure I'd have clearance with my graphics card as well. I'll work with that...

Either way, I'm excited to join you guys! This is looking to be like a fun day!
 
@ The_Oasis: mind you that ATX PSUs will only fit with a short GPU e.g. Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 OC and ASUS Geforce GTX 970 DC Mini.
Noctua L9i will only be good enough for an i3 or i5/i7 CPUs with low TDPs from my personal experience. It's more like a high quality and better boxed cooler. Better get Noctua NH-U9s, Noctua C12 or Noctua C14 if you want air cooling I would say.
 
raymondo said:
@ The_Oasis: mind you that ATX PSUs will only fit with a short GPU e.g. Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 OC and ASUS Geforce GTX 970 DC Mini.
Noctua L9i will only be good enough for an i3 or i5/i7 CPUs with low TDPs from my personal experience. It's more like a high quality and better boxed cooler. Better get Noctua NH-U9s, Noctua C12 or Noctua C14 if you want air cooling I would say.
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Good to know! But I've heard that there are some problems with fan placement and such with the C14 (not so for the C12 on the spreadsheet, but I can't actually find it on any retailer).

Think I'll go for the U9s, then. Cheers!
 
Installed accelero on my gtx 980, I have two nf-f12 as intakes blowing air to it. I connected both fans to my gpu using y-cable and gelid's adapter.

The fans are pretty loud even on lowest setting in evga precision. =/ Is there any way to make the fans run slower?

E: Made a fan curve using evga precision and managed to set the fan profile to much quieter
 
Topsu said:
Installed accelero on my gtx 980, I have two nf-f12 as intakes blowing air to it. I connected both fans to my gpu using y-cable and gelid's adapter.

The fans are pretty loud even on lowest setting in evga precision. =/ Is there any way to make the fans run slower?

E: Made a fan curve using evga precision and managed to set the fan profile to much quieter
Click to expand...

Do you have a before/after of temperature comparison?
 
The_Oasis said:
I have, and I'm trying to put together something right now. It seems that the H97i is a good bet, along with the Noctua L9i. I'm not too sure about the PSU yet, though, so I might actually just run with my ATX PSU until the Corsair one comes out (though, I'd have to make sure I'd have clearance with my graphics card as well. I'll work with that...

Either way, I'm excited to join you guys! This is looking to be like a fun day!
Click to expand...

i would recommend the Silverstone NT06-P as a good aircooling option for non OC processors - i have it in my HTPC (not the M1) and with a good fan mounted on the underside (i have a Noctua SP fan - 1500rpm i believe) it keeps my i3 under 40C while being 'silent'.

it depends a little on mobo choice whether or not you can mount a 25mm fan to the underside but i had no probs with the gigabyte h97 board (even with its vertical wifi module.

you would be able to still use the side fan brackets and have a push pull on it i believe (would be tight) but its unnecessary i think, as the NT06-P has been provenm to be very effective for a LP cooler.
 
Zangmonkey said:
Is that your setup? It's pretty much exactly what I was looking to do.
If so, can you comment on heat/noise?
Click to expand...
Heat/noise: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1041593449#post1041593449

Topsu said:
Installed accelero on my gtx 980, I have two nf-f12 as intakes blowing air to it. I connected both fans to my gpu using y-cable and gelid's adapter.

The fans are pretty loud even on lowest setting in evga precision. =/ Is there any way to make the fans run slower?

E: Made a fan curve using evga precision and managed to set the fan profile to much quieter
Click to expand...
Be sure to test the Accelero with the NF-F12 fans configured to EXHAUST, I did after a tip from cowsgomoo and it improved all my temps drastically with the same GPU cooling setup.
 
Phuncz said:
Heat/noise: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1041593449#post1041593449


Be sure to test the Accelero with the NF-F12 fans configured to EXHAUST, I did after a tip from cowsgomoo and it improved all my temps drastically with the same GPU cooling setup.
Click to expand...

I thought about that, but I am using only evga's headspreader to cool the vrm and the heatspreader wouldn't probably get much airflow if I set the fans as exhaust.
Also my gpu does not have vrm temp sensor so I cant even try that just to chech vrm temps.
 
For a time I've ran without anything on my VRMs, it went towards 100°C, but many VRMs can handle 110-130°C. With a small aluminium sink the temps lowered to the temperatures you see in my link in mu previous post.
 
Phuncz said:
For a time I've ran without anything on my VRMs, it went towards 100°C, but many VRMs can handle 110-130°C. With a small aluminium sink the temps lowered to the temperatures you see in my link in mu previous post.
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I'll try that, but it would also make my cpu fan + 92mm fan only intakes, because I use hdd cage, are they enough?

E:

Using bottom fans as exhaust dropped temperatures on both of my hdd by 10-12C.

jaboki said:
Do you have a before/after of temperature comparison?
Click to expand...

Didn't test under heavier load than csgo before installing accelero, but with accelero I can have my gpu fans spin max ~1000rpm while keeping my gpu max temp at 75c during few rounds of unigine heaven.
 
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Topsu said:
I'll try that, but it would also make my cpu fan + 92mm fan only intakes, because I use hdd cage, are they enough?
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It should, but it could be that your cooling will improve if the CPU fan (120mm on fan bracket ?) and 92mm rear fan are moving the same amount of air as the two 120mm fans at the bottom. The plentiful amount of perforation will allow differences in airflow to be equalized but it will also influence where the outside air is being pulled from. Having both intake and exhaust displace (roughly) the same amount of air allows airflow to be efficient.

Topsu said:
Using bottom fans as exhaust dropped temperatures on both of my hdd by 10-12C.
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That makes sense, when they were intakes they would exhaust hot air inside the case, including your HDDs. When you flipped them, you set the direction of the airflow top-to-bottom (instead of all-intakes I guess), meaning the HDDs get to deal with the heat from your CPU instead of your GPU. In most cases, the CPU still has much lower heat generation than most GPUs. Intel i7 K-series have about 80-90W TDP while most high-end GPUs sit around 180-280W TDP.
 
The_Oasis said:
Heh, that was the exact video I was looking at. Just seemed a tad fast for me, so I was looking around for a step by step process.
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Apologies, though I figured if I kept it under 4 minutes it would keep people's attention better.

Unfortunately I don't have the raw video before it was sped up any more, if you notice in the video I only put in a single hard drive and it's a 120GB 840 EVO. :p

So i couldn't really afford the space for the raw video.



If you want you could download it off youtube and slow it down in VLC, that helps a bit (3x "slower" is roughly real time, though its missing some frames from being sped up)
Here's a link to a website that lets you download it in 1080P.

IMO, the best way to build is

roughly plan how you want to lay things out
Install everything you reasonably can onto the mobo before putting it in the case
Install mobo, plug in front panel stuff
SSD's/ HDD's
install PSU and wire up everything but GPU
install any fans on the bottom of the case you want to use
install GPU
if you're using fan(s) on the side bracket, install those
And I think that covers everything, so the end? :)
 
Curiositie said:
Apologies, though I figured if I kept it under 4 minutes it would keep people's attention better.

Unfortunately I don't have the raw video before it was sped up any more, if you notice in the video I only put in a single hard drive and it's a 120GB 840 EVO. :p

So i couldn't really afford the space for the raw video.



If you want you could download it off youtube and slow it down in VLC, that helps a bit (3x "slower" is roughly real time, though its missing some frames from being sped up)
Here's a link to a website that lets you download it in 1080P.

IMO, the best way to build is

roughly plan how you want to lay things out
Install everything you reasonably can onto the mobo before putting it in the case
Install mobo, plug in front panel stuff
SSD's/ HDD's
install PSU and wire up everything but GPU
install any fans on the bottom of the case you want to use
install GPU
if you're using fan(s) on the side bracket, install those
And I think that covers everything, so the end? :)
Click to expand...

Perfect, just what I needed to know! Now I can go get those front panel things in. Tomorrow comes the power supply, and then I can enjoy my rig in all its glory!
 
csd said:
Will two SSDs fit in the front section? Is there an adaptor available?
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Yes, but it depends on the thickness (height?) of your drives. These quotes are from the front page at www.ncases.com :

"At the front of the chassis, either an upward-facing slim slot-loading optical drive or a 2.5" drive may be mounted."

"Utilizing the included stacking bracket, two 2.5" drives may be used on any of the 2.5" mounts. In total, between the side bracket and chassis mounting, up to three 3.5" drives or five 2.5" drives may be mounted, depending on other components."​

I measured the gap between the inside of the front panel and the frame to be 18 mm. I stacked two 9 mm SSDs with the brackets, attached the rubber mounts, and slid the assembly into place. The total height was 20.7 mm, which is too much. However, I had to use the holes on the stacking brackets that were furthest apart. If you have 7 mm SSD drives, then you can use the bracket holes that are 2 mm closer together. Combine this with the decreased height of the drives and two 7 mm SSDs should fit behind the front panel.
 
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Phuncz said:
Is that the Noctua NH-U9DX i4 with a mounting kit or an NH-U9S with two different fans ?

It seems a good fit for the Ncase M1.
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It's the old U9B-SE2, I bought it right as it was going EOL, I think. The closest thing to it is a D9S with two fans though, it seems to be roughly the same cooler with the fins offset a bit to aid RAM compatibility.
You can see here that the fan physically touches the Ballistix tactical tracer in slot 2.
0f7a59j.jpg



I'd say it definitely suits the M1. :)
QBLUQEl.jpg
 
Well, I did not get as much completed as I'd like, but I did mod the bottom of the case to permit dual 140 mm fans on the bottom.

​
These are dual Prolimatech Sleek Ultra Vortex 14 fans. They are only 15 mm thick and their frame is not square which permits them to fit around the side panel clips. They are set to draw air through an Alpenfohn Peter 2 GPU heatsink (not in the photo) and exhaust it out the bottom of the case. I will plug these PWM fans into my Zotac GTX 970 (the short one) for thermal (and noise) control. The bottom of the case is well ventilated, but I added several more 1/4 inch holes in areas where bottom was solid, You can see some of the new holes between the fan blades.

The fan at the front of the case fit without needing any changes to the case as the mounting holes are 105 mm apart (center to center), the same as a 120 mm fan. However, the rear fan required 4 mounting holes to be drilled into the case bottom. The fans are mounted using the soft rubber posts that come with Noctua fans. Initially I trimmed 2.5 mm off of the brackets that fasten the front USB and Audio ports to the bottom of the case. However, that probably wan't necessary since the rubber fan posts raise the fans a small amount so that the fan can overlap these port brackets.
 
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I'm trying to figure out how I'm meant to attach an ssd to the case. That mount you find screwed into the front doesn't have the correct distancing for the holes on a drive. What gives ?
 
EDIT: I think that mount you're looking at is the ODD mount. You don't use that for an SSD.

You have to put the rubber mounts on the SSD and slide it into the mounting holes in the case.
Mounting holes:
innerfront.jpg

Installed:
instssd2.jpg
 
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Qrash said:
Well, I did not get as much completed as I'd like, but I did mod the bottom of the case to permit dual 140 mm fans on the bottom.

-snip-
These are dual Prolimatech Sleek Ultra Vortex 14 fans. They are only 15 mm thick and their frame is not square which permits them to fit around the side panel clips. They are set to draw air through an Alpenfohn Peter 2 GPU heatsink (not in the photo) and exhaust it out the bottom of the case. I will plug these PWM fans into my Zotac GTX 970 (the short one) for thermal (and noise) control. The bottom of the case is well ventilated, but I added several more 1/4 inch holes in areas where bottom was solid, You can see some of the new holes between the fan blades.

The fan at the front of the case fit without needing any changes to the case as the mounting holes are 105 mm apart (center to center), the same as a 120 mm fan. However, the rear fan required 4 mounting holes to be drilled into the case bottom. The fans are mounted using the soft rubber posts that come with Noctua fans. Initially I trimmed 2.5 mm off of the brackets that fasten the front USB and Audio ports to the bottom of the case.However, that probably wan't necessary since the rubber fan posts raise the fans a small amount so that the fan can overlap these port brackets.
Click to expand...

I'm really excited to see what kind of temps you get on the 970, and at what speed you end up running those fans at.

When I was using the Peter II and a single ultra sleek vortex I ran it on one of noctua's PWM slow speed adapters and IMO it was too loud, but it did help temps a lot.
 
Curiositie said:
I'm really excited to see what kind of temps you get on the 970, and at what speed you end up running those fans at.

When I was using the Peter II and a single ultra sleek vortex I ran it on one of noctua's PWM slow speed adapters and IMO it was too loud, but it did help temps a lot.
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Unfortunately, it'll be days before I get a full system up and running. Home reno is starting this week and then there's work. Oh, and my stupid Bell PVR has likely popped more capacitors so that needs fixing.

I'm hoping that with 2 of the fans the RPMs, and hence the noise, can be kept down to a reasonable level. I won't be gaming very much so the GPU heat output will be minimal most of the time. Still, I will test with Unigine and Furmark plus a CPU stress test (suggestions?) for a worst case scenario and I'll let you know how the Peter 2 and these fans fair.
 
Qrash said:
Unfortunately, it'll be days before I get a full system up and running. Home reno is starting this week and then there's work. Oh, and my stupid Bell PVR has likely popped more capacitors so that needs fixing.

I'm hoping that with 2 of the fans the RPMs, and hence the noise, can be kept down to a reasonable level. I won't be gaming very much so the GPU heat output will be minimal most of the time. Still, I will test with Unigine and Furmark plus a CPU stress test (suggestions?) for a worst case scenario and I'll let you know how the Peter 2 and these fans fair.
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I expect it'll do fine, there's more than a few coolers that don't spin up the fans until the GPU breaks 60C and they do fine as far as I know.

I usually use Prime95 for CPU tests, though i feel like there's a newer standard test people use, Aida64 maybe?

Edit:

Should have mentioned in my last post that I was running it on a 750ti, and my personal opinion of what is too loud is super unreasonable. Example: My phone can't even hear my 980 at idle, but it's kind of loud IMO.
 
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