Samsung TVs always set HDMI black level to auto every time you turn TV off. It is very annoying. That is why we use the YCbCr mode.
This has been fixed on latest firmwares.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Samsung TVs always set HDMI black level to auto every time you turn TV off. It is very annoying. That is why we use the YCbCr mode.
Run a image test... color pallette... something. There is no confusion. HDMI LOW = limited range. Dark colors are crushed to straight black and at the other end color values are boosted increasing vibrance, which loses detail. HDMI should be set to NORMAL.
Sigh I figured I would get a reply like that...
1. I remember a while back that people said the PWM and motion blur on the JU7000 series is "better" than the JU6000 series. What about the PWM and motion blur/response time on the JS series? Is it EVEN BETTER than the JU7000? Or is it the same?
we just talked about the PWM a page or two back, complete with awesome graphs showing the differences between the models, and the JS series is by far the best in that respect
Interesting, to me these graphs looked like there is not much difference between JS and the JU7xxx
JU7100 - http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju7100/ju7100-backlight-large.jpg
JS8500 - http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/js8500/js8500-backlight-large.jpg
Am I misunderstanding something ?
I agree, the 6500 looks very drastic with sharp falls, and if those graphs are correct, it can probably be more troublesome for PWM sensitive people.
http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju6500/ju6500-backlight-large.jpg
I do not know about motion blur/response time on the JS series in comparison to JU7xxxx, it might be better than even the JU7100, but this is just a pure guess
With the sine wave, it looks more like PWM of 360-480 with various degrees of intensities. I think it's trying to emulate flourescent PWM.
Also, be careful with the JS7000. CMR of 120 tells me it may be a 60hz panel which infers that it has a backlight similar to the 6 series. May want to wait for the Rtings review on that one.
True that. PWM doesn't bother me in the least. But I know there are some who prefer to avoid just because PWM is a dirty word.
I received my replacement monitor from Crutchfield today. The unit arrived in good condition (i.e., no apparent shipping damage), and I'm pleased to report the PQ is fantastic. Less backlight bleeding than my Amazon display and no picture anomalies (which was the reason for my initial return with Crutchfield).
I'm a happy camper right now.
Interesting anecdote, after reading those articles I played around a bit with TV and Nvidia settings.
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests but appears slightly washed out (brightness) compared to Auto:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Full = Looks like Auto:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Take that for what you will, as they are only my observations. My previous point was to use the settings that look good to you, not that one particular setting is right or wrong.
3. With this display being "quantum dot", what benefits is that going to give it (if any) in terms of use a PC monitor for web browsing and some gaming?
4. Are there any misc. problems on the current JS lineup such as sleep problems, HDMI problems, etc?
Zarathustra[H];1041720030 said:I don't even know what the CMR is, lol
Clear Motion Rate. Refresh rate although I know the distinction about "real" 120Hz on monitors vs what a lot of TVs still do.
Zarathustra[H];1041720066 said:Ahh.
I don't recall seeing any option named CMR or clear motion rate in the TV configuration menu.
That doesn't mean it isn't there (there are lots of options and I don't remember them all) but if it is disabled on mine it would likely be something automatic as part of PC mode and Game mode.
Yeah, not sure. I believe Auto Motion Plus (AMP) has to do with using the LED backlight to improve the quality of the higher refresh rate. I know AMP is an option, but not sure if it's what controls CMR. It may enabled CMR also?
Zarathustra[H];1041720103 said:Ahh, I've never tinkered with it. I recall someone here saying that it introduces a metric ton of lag though.
CMR is the marketing term from Samsung. I have no idea how they manage to double the refresh rate, then call it CMR120/240. All I know is 120 = 60, 240 = 120.
Stupid question. I've tried to keep up with this thread but for the folks leaning more towards gaming focus... the 120 or 240CMR... are you all even bothering with that or do you shut it all off anyways when you go into either PC and/or Game mode? (If that's applicable)
This has been fixed on latest firmwares.
Interesting, to me these graphs looked like there is not much difference between JS and the JU7xxx
JU7100 - http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju7100/ju7100-backlight-large.jpg
JS8500 - http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/js8500/js8500-backlight-large.jpg
Am I misunderstanding something ?
I agree, the 6500 looks very drastic with sharp falls, and if those graphs are correct, it can probably be more troublesome for PWM sensitive people.
http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju6500/ju6500-backlight-large.jpg
I do not know about motion blur/response time on the JS series in comparison to JU7xxxx, it might be better than even the JU7100, but this is just a pure guess
Interesting anecdote, after reading those articles I played around a bit with TV and Nvidia settings.
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests but appears slightly washed out (brightness) compared to Auto:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Full = Looks like Auto:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Take that for what you will, as they are only my observations. My previous point was to use the settings that look good to you, not that one particular setting is right or wrong.
I'm having a very difficult time deciding between the JU7500 and the Crossover 404k. While I feel I get a better guarantee of quality with the Samsung plus the curve, my concern is with the input lag while using 4:4:4.
So with all this mention of YCbCr or RGB and HDMI Black Level, I became curious and found some interesting articles:
RGB Full vs Limited
Correcting HDMI Colour on Nvidia and AMD GPUs
Samsung Black Level and Nvidia Settings
HDMI Enhanced Black Levels, xvYCC and RGB
Interesting bits pulled from the links:
TVs use a video range from 16-235. It considers levels below 16 to be black, and information above 235 is white. A calibrated TV will never display anything below 16 as anything other than black. Most will also treat everything over 235 as white since it should not exist in video content.
PCs are different and use a range from 0-255. There is no data below 0 or above 255 with an 8-bit video signal as there are only 256 possible values. In short, this is much simpler to understand as the TV concepts of Blacker-than-Black and Whiter-than-White do not exist.
Nvidia/AMD may need tweaking to enforce full RGB over HDMI. Note: I think Nvidia fixed this in their drivers recently.
Samsung HDMI Level Normal/Low may have been and may still be swapped (i.e. Normal is Limited Ranged (Video Spec) and Low is Full Range (PC Spec). Evidently there are quite a few AVSforum posts about this.
The HDMI 1.3 Specification states that: "Black and white levels for video components shall be either “Full Range” or “Limited Range.” YCbCr components shall always be Limited Range while RGB components may be either Full Range or Limited Range. While using RGB, Limited Range shall be used for all video formats defined in CEA-861-D, with the exception of VGA (640x480) format, which requires Full Range."
Which implies when you force YCbCr from your video card over HDMI you are forcing limited range even though technically YCbCr can output full range.
FYI, it does not appear this portion of the specification has changed from 1.3 to 2.0. Still attempting to track this down but, it appears they added the capability for full range "YCbCr" in 1.3 as xvYCC.
What does all this mean? Well my take away is that configure your display/videocard the way that looks best to you and be done with it. In my case, that is a lower contrast ratio (not 100 more like 80), HDMI Level on Low and Nvidia set to RGB/Full. Your mileage may vary; void where prohibited.
Interesting anecdote, after reading those articles I played around a bit with TV and Nvidia settings.
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Full = Passes Contrast and Black Level tests but appears slightly washed out (brightness) compared to Auto:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Full = Looks like Auto:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Auto; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Normal; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Samsung HDMI Black Level: Low; Nvidia RGB: Limited = Looks like Normal:Full
Take that for what you will, as they are only my observations. My previous point was to use the settings that look good to you, not that one particular setting is right or wrong.
Zarathustra[H];1041719990 said:Did you also check the YCBR 444 mode?
Just did.
YCBR444 mode looks like Normal:Full
It should also be noted that HDMI Black Level is greyed out when choosing this output mode.
So based on my totally non-scientific A/B test does this imply that Auto/Low are both Full Range?
Zarathustra[H];1041719990 said:Did you also check the YCBR 444 mode?
On Samsung TVs:
Auto/Low = limited range
Normal = full range