Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

I think it is time to finally get rid of my Starfarer for a Hull series. The question is whether I push it and get the D or just settle on the C.
 
i guess that depends on what you want to do with the starfarer, and if it revolves around fuel collection or not, we know the hull series can get liquid containers, but we do not know if it has a module for fuel collection. or if its containers can be linked for fuel collection or if something else has to collect the fuel and the hull series is just for transporting it.

if your mainly interested in physical goods then yeah the hull series might be better.
 
I'm kind of considering if I should snag a Hull A or B and then upgrade them at a later time (maintaining LTI). I have to mention however, that I was surprised they didn't sell a "secret cargo" variant of the Hull series. If I recall correctly, when the Hull-C was first discussed, it was mentioned as the "smuggler" transport with false twin-walled containers and scanner dampeners etc. Once again, I'm impressed. CIG has clearly put thought into these cargo haulers; they'll be a great way to make profit in the verse, regardless if you're driving or targeting them!

With those who have mentioned concern over the complexities of Star Citizen's universe and "keeping up' with it all, worry not. If anything, it is only a benefit that CIG is delivering on a scale that is hereto unknown in gaming. However, rest assured that no matter if you've been following for years or just walk in on the opening day of the public universe, I have a feeling that information will be introduced to you in reasonable bites, so to speak.

For instance, the Squadron 42 single player campaign will be a scripted way to introduce players to all sorts of things they'll find in the public universe. Familiarity with everything from basic flight, hand to hand combat, ship systems, manning turrets and duty stations etc.. will likely be in S42. You'll be able to protect a UEE Hull-Ds on their way to resupply the fleet, and go up against heavily customized Hulls that carry little cargo, but are fully modded for battle by pirates! Those who play S42 first will come out with a significant tutorial in game systems, played in a single player mode at your own pace.

When you do join the PU, from all I've read you'll be taught in reasonable progression. Starting off with starter gear and a MobiGlass filled with cheap/free tutorials to read, nav maps etc.. the tasks you undertake will be made to teach you about the process. Starter missions will allow you to learn the basics of space combat, racing, FPS combat, trading, mining etc... and won't be too complex. After all, if you're piloting your Aurora or Hull A , you won't be taking a huge amount of cargo halfway through the galaxy, you'll be flying locally in patrolled space etc. As you make more money get more comfortable, you'll buy bigger ships and take more advanced missions. If you don't want it all your responsibility, you can crew up on a NPC or a PC's ship and man a duty station - from turret, scanning, jump/nav mapping, mining, and more. Along the way you''ll learn at the pace you wish!

Given the incremental, step by step nature of even these pre-alpha modules, I expect the full title to expose players to new systems in a reasonable way, as well.
 
Man i just want to get one so i can fill all the cargo pods with explosives and then start jettisoning them at a jump point. I can see them being great mine layer ships. :D
 
shifty68 said:
Man i just want to get one so i can fill all the cargo pods with explosives and then start jettisoning them at a jump point. I can see them being great mine layer ships. :D
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or just make your own debris fields to hide some ships in so when someone comes in to salvage the random cluster of junk you are in the field powered down and waiting.
 
@Xaeos

I'm also a bit surprised that they didn't offer a HULL C "discrete" although considering we got 5 new ships I'm somewhat ok with it haha. Although considering the size I wonder if they figured that giving the HULL C a full loadout of smuggler crates would give some sort of massive advantage with insurance because cargo isn't insured in all sectors of space. I'm going to guess that also means the cargo pods, which I imagine may need to be purchased in game. Obviously that's just speculation but it would make sense. If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised to see a variant upgrade for the HULL C in the future that gives it a loadout of the "discrete" smuggler stuff without the cargo pods.
 
So the Hull-C says it has a max crew of 3. Is there any indication of how readily a lone pilot will be able to handle this thing? Same for the Hull-D with a crew of 5.

I am in the process of selling my Starfarer and current prices put it inbetween the Hull-C and Hull-D price points so I have to decide whether to take some profit and got the C, or put in a bit more to upgrade to the D.
 
I'm not sure what the stations are on the HULL C and D. I would imagine they can be done by cheaper NPC's but who knows at this point, they may just be turret stations which would be good.

I would think a HULL C would be more useful than a D unless your doing some kind of organization run early on in the game at least. The sheer amount of planning needed for running a D and E is probably going to be a major hassle, but that's all a guess. I think once you get past the C, possibly even before the C, you may be hindering yourself because you're shifting your cargo from high value - low volume, to low value - high volume just because the risk of losing a large high value load may be devastating to your finances and insurance doesn't cover cargo in all sectors.

Right around the HULL C mark you may want to start looking for escorts. Losing some cargo wouldn't be bad, but if I were a pirate I would rather take your ship rather than steal a few pods ;) I guess there is such a thing as the parasite killing the host, so who knows, as a rule you don't want to kill all the whales but that's always a risk.

I'm grabbing the HULL E because I got problems, that's really all I can say, totally irrational move on my part hahahaha... However I'll grab the B for regular cargo plus it can go offload the cargo planet side rather than offloading in space and vise versa. I would think that would be a cake job since most of that work would be in a protected location, plus you may be able to run some of the smaller jump points with it for longer range hauls with high value cargo. I also have the Banu and Starfarer as other haulers with capacity just below the C otherwise I would grab the C as well.
 
Might grab a Hull-A.... I would like to see if this, proximity mine deployment ship idea is viable ;)


Bunch of ships fly out of a carrier, lone Hull-A flying behind the group as the primary team acts as a distraction against a much larger ship while the Hull-A goes ahead of the ships path and starts dropping mines... yeah.... :)
 
Smoeki said:
I also have the Banu and Starfarer as other haulers with capacity just below the C otherwise I would grab the C as well.
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Isn't the Starfarer at something like 200-300 SCU? That is significantly below the B, not even in the same league as the C.

Currently I have a Connie Phoenix for running small quantities of high priced goods. Then an Orion for mining up that sweet sweet ore. I think I am leaning towards the Hull-C as it would fit well for transporting ore mined with the Orion. The capacities of the two are pretty copacetic. My friend has a Carrack that can be used for finding good asteroid veins.
 
How many ships are we up to now including variants? 56? How many will there be by launch?

At what point does this become a balancing nightmare?
 
I can't believe the size of that Hull E. Even the C is massive.

Not going to pick one up myself, but they will be fun to shoot at. Slow-moving, poorly armed space pinatas sounds good to me :)


Frankie said:
At what point does this become a balancing nightmare?
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From day 1. The current meta favors CS missiles, last patch was Sledges, etc. At best we can hope for less dramatic cycles, but that sort of dynamic never really goes away.
 
Frankie said:
How many ships are we up to now including variants? 56? How many will there be by launch?

At what point does this become a balancing nightmare?
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We are already there. It's not just all the ship classes / types. They also have to balance the game so people who spent thousands don't feel cheated and new users still have fun. I have a feeling both parties will be upset.

Then you have current items subject to major change. Space combat is pretty much dead for me since they removed gimbals from my ship and I cant hit the side of a barn with fixed weapons. What good is the fancy advanced target system I paid extra for if it doesn't actually help me hit things. I don't follow arena commander anymore so some of this may have changed. I'll be damned if I'm going to give them more money for something that sounds perfect just for them to change it again.

At this point they got my $80 and I get the game when it launches so I'm happy. No way I would be spending a fraction of what these other people are without even knowing if 1/2 the shit they plan on doing with their ships is possible.
 
That's pretty much where I was at.

On top of some of the typical MMORPG balancing issues (economy/inflation/, balancing the income from different "professions", etc), you've also got to have some sort of balance between:
Ship buyers feeling they got poor value vs. non buyers feeling it's P2W.
KBM vs HOTAS
Weapons systems that are more difficult to balance than what you typically have to deal with in an MMORPG.
A hundred ships that have to have some sort of balance in terms of cost vs. combat effectiveness, vs. ability to make money in game, vs fuel/upkeep/insurance/repairs/whatever other associated upkeep costs there are, etc.
Balancing buying stuff for RL cash.

Right now the ship sales probably seem like easy money, but I think they've already got a tough row to hoe and the dollar signs are causing them to make it tougher and tougher on themselves.

I really want to hear more about the inner workings of the economy. I think some developer statements are being misinterpreted by a lot of people on the official forums.
 
The people that have spent thousands do not really need to be considered when it comes to balance because no one forced us to spend more than $45-60.
 
Wildace said:
The people that have spent thousands do not really need to be considered when it comes to balance because no one forced us to spend more than $45-60.
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That's how I feel but I'm sure most people spending high dollar amounts would be pissed if I could grind for their $10000 ship in a month.
 
Really, I REALLY hope they don't balance it around the people that have paid real money for these huge ships or make them soooooooooooo hard to get for people that didn't shell out $1,000+ bucks.

They need to balance it around the point of view of a player coming into the game fresh without having spent anything aside from the base game price and the starting ship and balance it around that experience.

When they started they made a point of saying everything would be obtainable in-game and you should only buy ships as a way to help fund the game.

I hope they have stuck with the mindsight.

That's why I've stuck with just my bounty-hunter package and the 325a variant and don't want to go any higher.

I want to be able to work my way up to better ships and make my way toward that goal, but not at the "Balance" vs people who bought them with real money and RSI focusing on that as a means to determine the difficulty of obtaining the higher end ships in game or cost (to the point if you don't shell out real money you have little/no chance of getting one in any reaisonable gaming timeframe).
 
I'm more worried about them making ships too easy to obtain, and then within a year everyone ends up in a Javelin. That wouldn't be fun. Something like that ship should be forever extremely rare to come by.

I could care less about the monetary aspect of it, but they need to favor the difficult and long term way of obtaining ships, otherwise the PU will break down pretty quickly with vets in Javelins and noobs who won't stand a chance in Aurora's. My example might be extreme, but only need to tip the scale just a little bit before it ends up running away on its own. :p
 
Stiler said:
Really, I REALLY hope they don't balance it around the people that have paid real money for these huge ships or make them soooooooooooo hard to get for people that didn't shell out $1,000+ bucks.
They need to balance it around the point of view of a player coming into the game fresh without having spent anything aside from the base game price and the starting ship and balance it around that experience.

When they started they made a point of saying everything would be obtainable in-game and you should only buy ships as a way to help fund the game.

I hope they have stuck with the mindsight.

That's why I've stuck with just my bounty-hunter package and the 325a variant and don't want to go any higher.

I want to be able to work my way up to better ships and make my way toward that goal, but not at the "Balance" vs people who bought them with real money and RSI focusing on that as a means to determine the difficulty of obtaining the higher end ships in game or cost (to the point if you don't shell out real money you have little/no chance of getting one in any reaisonable gaming timeframe).
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I disagree, they should make it difficult to get those ships, else why charge so much for them? I think it will be similar to how hard it is to get into the later end game ships for EVE. I think people are getting too hooked on the idea of "pay to win". There may be many people who simply don't have the time to dedicate to grinding out the skills, money, etc. to get to that level.

I think the way RSI has it now gives those individuals a chance to play something more interesting and get hooked. But there are a lot of other aspects to the game as well. Those won't be something you can just pay your way into, at least not currently. Just because you have a huge ship, doesn't mean you have the best weapons, armor, modules, skills, support, personnel, etc. for that ship.

No matter the case, it is way too early to do anything more than casually speculate on the impact it will have. Even if it is more of a pay to win scenario, personally I am fine with that. As long as I can still grind out and get to those upper levels and the grinding is at least entertaining, who cares if someone dropped a ton of money just to get those ships. You know what? In the end you can get them, have fun playing the game and not have to spend a fortune doing it.
 
NoOther said:
I disagree, they should make it difficult to get those ships, else why charge so much for them?
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Because RSI specifically said in the beginning that you are purchasing ships to help fund the game, not because they are needlessly hard to obtain. I'm not saying it should be easy but someone shouldn't have to grind for years to get them either.

I'm starting to think they won't stick to this just because they have been accepting too much money for too long for this stuff.
 
they didnt charge so much for them, they gave them to the person that pledged so and so amount as a thank you for your pledge, maybe the ship was motivation to pledge but that does not mean the ship is worth that pledge value, besides $600 to one person could be a days worth of work, or it could be weeks of work if you have a crap job the actual value of that $600 can vary from person to person. it is impossible to make everyone happy balancing around that issue. the only true solution is to balance around a new person coming into the game and playing the intended way of playing the game and that is starting from a lowly starter ship, how hard or easy they want to make ship advancement should be based on how fun it is for someone starting with nothing to work their way up in a reasonable time frame / fun rate without it feeling like a daunting grind, because ships are not end game goals, outfitting them properly for the mission you want to do is a much bigger deal and more endgame content wise than just owning the base hull is.

you will likely have to fly damn near all over the known systems to find proper gear to the quality level you want, since some places might only have high quality thrusters and that shop on the other side of the galaxy might only have 1 type of high end weapon you are looking for. the real hunt will be getting good quality gear beyond the starting junk they give you when you buy a ship. and the real gems likely wont be in any shops and be on some derelict ship floating through space in an unlooted cargo hold waiting for you to salvage.

getting small to medium ship hulls will likely be rather trivial in comparison. larger ships which are expected to be crewed by 10-15 people would likely be where the beginning of the gind for a solo player might set in, i mean if you try to solo pay for a Javelin destroyer by your self you should expect that to be a slow road if you start in a starting aurora or something, as a javelin is likely expected to be purchased by an Org with lots of people pitching in for the cost of the vessel so its price could be inflated to refelect that cost splitting between players so it could take an org of 15-20 people a month of mission runs to pay for that ship if they are only pitching in say 50% proffits from each mission. so trying to do that solo could seem like a real challenge, but i do not see why a solo person would try to pay for such a large ship for them selves in game when it would be smarter to split the cost with a bunch of people that could help crew it.

but all the ships really work that way if its a multi crew ship and you feel it takes too long to earn it yourself make some friends or join an org willing to help split the cost, you can take a ship that might take a month to earn in game split the cost with 5 people and drop the acquisition time to less than a week.
 
NoOther said:
I disagree, they should make it difficult to get those ships, else why charge so much for them? I think it will be similar to how hard it is to get into the later end game ships for EVE. I think people are getting too hooked on the idea of "pay to win". There may be many people who simply don't have the time to dedicate to grinding out the skills, money, etc. to get to that level.

I think the way RSI has it now gives those individuals a chance to play something more interesting and get hooked. But there are a lot of other aspects to the game as well. Those won't be something you can just pay your way into, at least not currently. Just because you have a huge ship, doesn't mean you have the best weapons, armor, modules, skills, support, personnel, etc. for that ship.

No matter the case, it is way too early to do anything more than casually speculate on the impact it will have. Even if it is more of a pay to win scenario, personally I am fine with that. As long as I can still grind out and get to those upper levels and the grinding is at least entertaining, who cares if someone dropped a ton of money just to get those ships. You know what? In the end you can get them, have fun playing the game and not have to spend a fortune doing it.
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Because from the start they said you'll be able to get through in-game through playing and they told people this and the price of certain ones were incentives to help fund the game, nothing more.

Making the ships that cost a lot of real money "super-grindy" in order to obtain iiito the point that it feels like a chore instead of a reward is something I do not want to experience in Star Citizen.

I do not want the game to be an "mmo" in terms of ships being something that you have to grind and grind and grind 100's of hours , spending 5+ months of "work" in order to get good ones.

I want to be able to just play the game, have fun, and be able to have a "chance" to find one of those larger/top end ships and obtain it through successfully using my tactics and wits.

Where a group (or one very very smart player) is able to infiltrate a larger ship, board it, take it over from the inside or disable it and take it.


BAlance wise I Think theky need to focus less on "Ship" balance (IE this ship vs that ship) and more on system balances with regards to the components of the ships.

There should be counters on top of counters for EVERYTHING in a circle type of balance.

So lets say you have component B, it's countered by C, which is countered by A, and A counters B. So every-single thing hias a way "around" it if you are smart and outfit your ship for what you want to do or meet.
 
Kardonxt said:
I'm starting to think they won't stick to this just because they have been accepting too much money for too long for this stuff.
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i am not sure they really have a reason to not stick to it, there is always going to be someone that complains about something, you just have to know who to listen too and who to ignore

the fact is the whales are in the minority as the average $ spent per person is around $90
 
Stiler said:
Because from the start they said you'll be able to get through in-game through playing and they told people this and the price of certain ones were incentives to help fund the game, nothing more.

Making the ships that cost a lot of real money "super-grindy" in order to obtain iiito the point that it feels like a chore instead of a reward is something I do not want to experience in Star Citizen.
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First off, saying you will be able to get ships through playing in game means nothing in and of itself. That does not mean you will be able to immediately or within a short period of time be able to obtain them. And what is the point of allowing just anyone to get huge ships right off the bat? Then everyone would just be flying around in them, that would make the game no fun. That is akin to Galaxies all of a sudden allowing everybody to be a Jedi and then the game almost collapsing overnight. The whole point of making things harder to get, is that they are more exclusive and they are rewarding players for their time and effort. That doesn't mean you won't be able to have fun flying around in other ships, and it may be that you could be part of a crew on a larger ship. You just may not be able to afford to purchase a larger ship on your own unless you grind it out.
 
Another thing to consider is, if ships are available to buy for real money post-release (either directly or by buying in-game credits, either or both of which seem likely), will those prices be the same as these pre-release prices. Then you can compare those prices with the equivalent grind.
 
NoOther said:
The whole point of making things harder to get, is that they are more exclusive and they are rewarding players for their time and effort.
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Depends on what you actually have to do to earn them. If it's just the same old grind, mindlessly shooting endless trash mobs or watching a progress bar on a mining ship or never-ending fetch quests dressed up as trading for weeks/months/years, then no, thanks.
 
My question right now is how things like the undoubtedly rather large number of Hull Es sold will impact the start of the game. Will you be able to immediately take on huge cargo missions with an associated hefty payment (you really shouldn't be able to)? If you're in an org with enough purchased UEC will you be able make massive cash on launch day by stacking Hull Es full of trade goods? Will a large and immediate cash influx allow people to snatch up all the space stations/nodes/whatevers relatively rapidly?


Litfod said:
Depends on what you actually have to do to earn them. If it's just the same old grind, mindlessly shooting endless trash mobs or watching a progress bar on a mining ship or never-ending fetch quests dressed up as trading for weeks/months/years, then no, thanks.
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You earn money by playing the game. If you don't like PvE, do PvP. If you don't like mining, do trading. If you don't like trading, do <whatever>. Etc.

If you're not having fun doing any of it, then I don't see why it matters how long it takes to earn a Constellation or whatever, you just don't like the game. If you don't like any of the aspects of the game in a Mustang, I don't see how doing the same stuff in a different ship is going to make it much better.
 
Erasmus354 said:
Isn't the Starfarer at something like 200-300 SCU? That is significantly below the B, not even in the same league as the C.
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The data on the Starfarer is incomplete. Basically it is designed to be a fueler so it's suppose to be outfitted as for liquids which aren't accounted for as cargo in the current specs. If I recall correctly the current number on the specs page in only taking into account the internal cargo bay. We are suppose to be able to remove the liquid fuel tanks and equip it for cargo pods, but we have no idea what that number is yet. If they stick with the lore, it's not suppose to be as efficient as the freelancer, but it does give the option.
 
The PTU is up with tutorials. I just flew through the Basic one, very cool, a military trainer that takes you from takeoff out to do some combat and back again.
 
Hull-A Q&A


Hull-E Pocket Carrier "Confirmed"

“Can the hull ships carry smaller starfighters (packed or configured as cargo) such as the Super Hornet?” – queetz

Yes! Spacecraft can be broken down into their component parts for transport, or carried in their completed forms aboard larger Hulls. There is also a ‘midget fighter attachment’ being developed for the Hull E which will allow it to drop and recover escort fighters in exchange for cargo space.
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https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14681-Hull-A-Q-A

Q & A for the HULL series, this one got my attention :D

&#8220;Can the hull ships carry smaller starfighters (packed or configured as cargo) such as the Super Hornet?&#8221; &#8211; queetz

Yes! Spacecraft can be broken down into their component parts for transport, or carried in their completed forms aboard larger Hulls. There is also a &#8216;midget fighter attachment&#8217; being developed for the Hull E which will allow it to drop and recover escort fighters in exchange for cargo space.
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It looks like we will get some more answers before the end of the sale Monday. I'm holding off until the last minute because I'm going to burn my Imperator coupon. The more info makes me a happy camper.


lol, damn you beat me to it SithSolo1 :)
 
NoOther said:
First off, saying you will be able to get ships through playing in game means nothing in and of itself. That does not mean you will be able to immediately or within a short period of time be able to obtain them. And what is the point of allowing just anyone to get huge ships right off the bat? Then everyone would just be flying around in them, that would make the game no fun.
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No fun for who? People will want the bigger ships when they see Pay2Win people piloting them around like a boss. If those ships aren't obtainable, the common folk may get very frustrated before spending the time to grind for them.
 
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