For me it's not so much the new games as it is the freesync/gsync 120+ hz 1440p/4k monitors coming out this year needing faster hardware to run at native res. While I do game on a 1080p projector from time to time I'm kind of stuck on a 1280x720 26 inch tv since my last monitor died for general use, I was waiting on an affordable 120 hz IPS before dropping coin on a new monitor and it seems this is the year for that.
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AMD to launch 390x in June @ Computex
- Thread starter glenn37216
- Start date
glenn37216
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W00t ! Big surprise coming from the Red team after Nvidia's GTC conference is over. Looks like we will be getting the 3XX series long before June comes.
According to some credible sources on Reddit AMD will be launching some 3XX series cards shortly after Nvidia's upcoming releases.
Seems they ARE listening to feedback on social media and other forums and have decided to launch a few cards ahead of others.
According to some credible sources on Reddit AMD will be launching some 3XX series cards shortly after Nvidia's upcoming releases.
Seems they ARE listening to feedback on social media and other forums and have decided to launch a few cards ahead of others.
Wally Simmonds
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Tbh, unless it's a flagship card, I really don't care.
The leaks seem to be about the 370x if you're reading the same stuff I am.
The leaks seem to be about the 370x if you're reading the same stuff I am.
That would be rather disappointing if true. I really want to see how the 390x fairs.
While I agree that complaining might make no difference in the 390X release, the rest of your post isn't really based in reality at all.
harmattan
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W00t ! Big surprise coming from the Red team after Nvidia's GTC conference is over. Looks like we will be getting the 3XX series long before June comes.
According to some credible sources on Reddit AMD will be launching some 3XX series cards shortly after Nvidia's upcoming releases.
Seems they ARE listening to feedback on social media and other forums and have decided to launch a few cards ahead of others.
Here we go again for the sixth time...Let's all jump on the train of unbridled optimism
It's June, it's Computex.
What AMD is doing is waiting to clear out stock, but they are doing it in the stupidest way. The prices have to be corrected to maximize their position in the market. A $350 R9-290x is pretty easy to pass up compared to a $350 GTX970, but if that R9-290x was $230 or $250 it would bring a lot more customers in. Compare the 290x to a GTX970 at the same price and most will go with the GTX970, but have the R9-290x cost a little more than the GTX960 and you have a GPU that will knock out both the GTX970 and GTX960 and clear inventory for the new 3xx series. I know dropping the price of their flagship will have a trickle down effect on the rest of the line up, but that's a good thing. The 3 year old R9-280/280x can go for $150 and $170 respectively, and the 270/270x can go for $100/$130. This would bring a new area to PC graphics as even 1080p/Ultra settings on most games will be possible with even a $100 GPU. This would make nVidia and their prices look silly. This strategy wouldn't be completly alien to AMD as they did a similar move with the Radeon 4870 which in some games ran neck and neck with the twice as expensive GTX280, and the Radeon 4850 which did a similar thing to the GTX260, this forced nVidia to lower prices and issue refund checks. The Radeon 4xxx and 5xxx saw some of the biggest growth for AMD since the Radeon 9700Pro, after that they went to a slight upgrade with the 6xxx and just went price bonkers with the 7xxx's which carried on to the R9 series.
At launch he Radeon 5850 was a $260 card, a card in it's same class but a few generations later (the R9-290) launched for $450, that's an almost $200 increase for a card in the same position on it's hierarchy stack, inflation has not gone that nuts in the 5 years between them.
AMD seems to have lost were they sit on the market, riding on the success of the Radeon 9-series and Radeon HD5-series to prices that the public just won't buy, then they lose market share to nVidia and have to claw it back.
If it worked before, do it again. If the R9-390x isn't $400, and performs like a Titan X, then AMD is going to have a tough year.
I don't know what slack-jawed yokels they have running AMD, but I could tell that if myself or most of the people on this board were running the company it would be in a far better position.
At launch he Radeon 5850 was a $260 card, a card in it's same class but a few generations later (the R9-290) launched for $450, that's an almost $200 increase for a card in the same position on it's hierarchy stack, inflation has not gone that nuts in the 5 years between them.
AMD seems to have lost were they sit on the market, riding on the success of the Radeon 9-series and Radeon HD5-series to prices that the public just won't buy, then they lose market share to nVidia and have to claw it back.
If it worked before, do it again. If the R9-390x isn't $400, and performs like a Titan X, then AMD is going to have a tough year.
I don't know what slack-jawed yokels they have running AMD, but I could tell that if myself or most of the people on this board were running the company it would be in a far better position.
Thats why you are the CEO of a multi billion dollar corporation, right?
You know better than the pros, right?
I bet you could fix his in two seconds, right?
armchair CEOs....
lol
I always find it amusing when random internet basement dwellers think they know better than professionals that have been in the industry for decades...
You know better than the pros, right?
I bet you could fix his in two seconds, right?
armchair CEOs....
lol
I always find it amusing when random internet basement dwellers think they know better than professionals that have been in the industry for decades...
fixedmy7970
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lol this. we have legendary engineers and a ceo with degrees from MIT...but we know better than them
Dayaks
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There's nothing wrong with critizing the company. Argue why members are wrong rather than personally attacking them. Generally ends up with a much more interesting thread.
I can say if I was AMD I'd at least paper launch the 390x before the Titan X hits. Give people something to chew on. 390x is 90% of the Titan X at 50% the cost and definitely launching in June not just rumors... that'd make me second guess the Titan X. Right now I have nothing therefore I don't factor it into my decision. Hell the 390x was rumored November, then January and now June.
I can say if I was AMD I'd at least paper launch the 390x before the Titan X hits. Give people something to chew on. 390x is 90% of the Titan X at 50% the cost and definitely launching in June not just rumors... that'd make me second guess the Titan X. Right now I have nothing therefore I don't factor it into my decision. Hell the 390x was rumored November, then January and now June.
I totally agree.
So Nvidia gets the nod of approval from you for releasing the Titan and Titan X at $1,000+, but AMD can't releasing a flagship card at above $400 without looking stupid?
Ummmm..... I guess this must be true if you say so.
TaintedSquirrel
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AMD operates on a 2-to-1 ratio with Nvidia.
AMD must be twice as fast or half the cost to be successful against Nvidia. Anything else is considered a failure.
This is just the way things work now.
Thank you for that, I would prefer to discuss my points instead of being attacked with baseless insults. If AMD's management knew what they were doing, why are they in the position they are in? Would people say the same thing about ENRON before they collapsed, or 3DFX or Nokia or Blackberry? I guess because big important CEOs ran those companies they were infallible and can't be criticized for poor decisions huh? Those companies were being steered by a drunk and/or incompetent captain, and I don't want to see AMD go down that road due to an incompetence.
And, yes, given the opportunity to run AMD, I would ensure it's growth and success. If the 390x provides 90% of Titan X performance for half the price (last done by AMD with the Radeon 4870 vs GTX280), then I'll order it day one.
Radeon 9700 Pro, Radeon 4870 and Radeon 5850/5870 are very close (if a bit less exaggerated) to this criteria and were raging successes. I don't know if you typed that in jest, but this is unfortunately true.
but you have no valid points.
You are making a bunch of stuff up with zero inside knowledge of the Company, Market Timing, Manufacturing, Suply Lines, or Competition. You have no experience running a company in this sector, nor are you ever likely to.
I cant debate pure Fantasy.
The only thing left is to point out how truly delusion your suggestions are.
Im not attacking on you persoanlly, just your methodology.
I go back to my original amusment of Armchair CEOs.
Perhaps the basement deweller comment was a personal attack, and for that i apologize.
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If you listen to the correct people, you wouldn't have believed any of those rumored months.
You don't personally know me, so assuming I have no experience running a corporation at that level is a moot discussion point. Feel free to discard or ignore my thoughts, but remember, people like you, said the same thing to those who criticized how Enron, 3DFX, Nokia and Blackberry were run in the eve of their collapses. It is not delusional when their is a similar past president, ie Radeon 4870($300) going blow for blow with the GTX280($600). What I'm recommending is to do the something with existing inventory, to clear out excess inventory that would normally go unsold, or introduce the R9-390x at half the price of the Titan-X, and offer 90% of the performance. Perhaps both.
I can guarantee you haven't... spell/grammar check tells me so.
Edit- Also, if you had any knowledge on historical situations you wouldn't be mentioning Enron...
2nd Edit- What you are suggesting with the existing inventory is pretty normal. The flip-side of that coin is, do you really believe AMD didn't know when they were going to be releasing their new GPUs and haven't been clearing out the channel the last 6months? Tahiti and Hawaii are EOL'ed...
What you are suggesting with Fiji is ludicrous though... you are suggesting when AMD is going head to head with die size and performance, they should significantly undercut the historical price point of highend GPUs so they "look good" in the short-term. Short-term moves don't make a company stronger, especially one that is trying to reinvent itself.
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You want fries with that order as well? What a clueless, ridiculous statement.
Doesn't work that way, because right now AMD has been bleeding marketshare and on the eve of a new card launch the way they would clear out inventory in this type of situation would be to stop production of current card that is in the spot of what they are launching, launch to the new card/s and lower the price of the remaining stock.
The loss of marketshare shows AMD's current line up isn't selling well, and to stop that is to start releasing a more competitive product from a consumer point of view, not by trying to sell the same things for longer.
Having said that, AMD's "delay" doesn't bode well for a competitive product or they are having major issues at a manufacturing level.
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5150Joker
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The June release for R390X isn't good but it's not going to hurt AMD that bad either. The only thing NVIDIA will have is the Titan X which is a $1000+ part, not exactly mainstream friendly. So if they can dump their existing stock and build up inventory w/their new line of parts and release them in June, it's fine. Especially if R390X manages to keep pace with Titan X at a lower price point.
And why the hell would they need to sell it at half price? That's a really absurd statement. If Titan X sells for $1000 and R390X matches it, they could very well price it at $800 and get away with it. They could then position 380X to compete against the cut down GM200 and again beat it slightly in price.
AMD has some distinct advantages going for it with HBM and XDMA so it's not a complete win for NVIDIA by a long shot. If I didn't already have a G-Sync display, I'd seriously be considering a FreeSync + R390X combination right now. If AMD doesn't lock the voltage on the R390X and it comes with CLC, it might have some decent OC headroom that puts it ahead of a locked Titan X.
Personally I'd like to see AMD regain some market share this time around so we can see more competitive parts in 2016 and beyond. Besides, I don't think we can count AMD out just yet, they're about to strike a deal with Mediatek that should give them a lot of market exposure with mobiles which I hope helps their bottomline.
And why the hell would they need to sell it at half price? That's a really absurd statement. If Titan X sells for $1000 and R390X matches it, they could very well price it at $800 and get away with it. They could then position 380X to compete against the cut down GM200 and again beat it slightly in price.
AMD has some distinct advantages going for it with HBM and XDMA so it's not a complete win for NVIDIA by a long shot. If I didn't already have a G-Sync display, I'd seriously be considering a FreeSync + R390X combination right now. If AMD doesn't lock the voltage on the R390X and it comes with CLC, it might have some decent OC headroom that puts it ahead of a locked Titan X.
Personally I'd like to see AMD regain some market share this time around so we can see more competitive parts in 2016 and beyond. Besides, I don't think we can count AMD out just yet, they're about to strike a deal with Mediatek that should give them a lot of market exposure with mobiles which I hope helps their bottomline.
*The*Dark*Lord*
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Well, at least they have a release date now...
Why would anyone champion against AMD releasing new parts? Competition pushes innovation and better price / performance for everyone!
Hell look at the desktop market for CPUs, its been tiny gains every year since AMD stopped competing. Will be nice when Vulkan / DX 12 become mainstream and CPU per core speed stops being the major bottleneck.
Hell look at the desktop market for CPUs, its been tiny gains every year since AMD stopped competing. Will be nice when Vulkan / DX 12 become mainstream and CPU per core speed stops being the major bottleneck.
Actually I think most of you have misread the situation. Here's my take;
*For months before GDC all sorts of leaks surfaced about AMD's "next big thing" - it was all over the net - leaked benches, speculation over what it was exactly...
*AMD said that they were going to do "something crazy" at GDC - Nvidia took note, and this is important because Nvidia knew AMD had something special, they just didn't know when they would release or reveal.
*GDC arrives and AMD gets all coy, on or about the date and time everyone was speculating that AMD would pull the 390 out of the bag, Nvidia announce and reveal KEY details about their trump card, the Titan X
*AMD do NOTHING crazy, and continue to say NOTHING at GDC
*Nvidia CEO is right now chewing the absolute **** out of his fingernails because he's let his hubris bluff him into revealing his hand first
*AMD are now aware of what the trump hand was to be and are acting accordingly, meanwhile Nvidia are committed to releasing the mutton gun card with a dilemma - What if 390 is faster or equal? do we release a 980ti that will be several months away in production stream? Or do we start now and cannibalize sales of the Titan while ****ing off the early adopters?
I think AMD have played Nvidia like fools in this round - if you doubt me look around all of the forums and observe all the nail biting and indecision going on over whether to spend on the Titan or wait...
Regardless, AMD will take the strategic victory because the 390 will be better bang for buck if not faster outright, early Titan adopters will get hosed and the hate for Nvidia will build again, while AMD again look great for bringing the price bar down and the performance bar up - and there will be no immediate answer from Nvidia like the 780ti.
Just my .02
*For months before GDC all sorts of leaks surfaced about AMD's "next big thing" - it was all over the net - leaked benches, speculation over what it was exactly...
*AMD said that they were going to do "something crazy" at GDC - Nvidia took note, and this is important because Nvidia knew AMD had something special, they just didn't know when they would release or reveal.
*GDC arrives and AMD gets all coy, on or about the date and time everyone was speculating that AMD would pull the 390 out of the bag, Nvidia announce and reveal KEY details about their trump card, the Titan X
*AMD do NOTHING crazy, and continue to say NOTHING at GDC
*Nvidia CEO is right now chewing the absolute **** out of his fingernails because he's let his hubris bluff him into revealing his hand first
*AMD are now aware of what the trump hand was to be and are acting accordingly, meanwhile Nvidia are committed to releasing the mutton gun card with a dilemma - What if 390 is faster or equal? do we release a 980ti that will be several months away in production stream? Or do we start now and cannibalize sales of the Titan while ****ing off the early adopters?
I think AMD have played Nvidia like fools in this round - if you doubt me look around all of the forums and observe all the nail biting and indecision going on over whether to spend on the Titan or wait...
Regardless, AMD will take the strategic victory because the 390 will be better bang for buck if not faster outright, early Titan adopters will get hosed and the hate for Nvidia will build again, while AMD again look great for bringing the price bar down and the performance bar up - and there will be no immediate answer from Nvidia like the 780ti.
Just my .02
Michaelius
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*People who are in industry have much better sources than internet forums for their information.
*Nvidia had no real reason to reveal new cards at GDC as they still have best performing card.
*Assuming chips were quite close in performance - they are forcing AMD into higher clocks - possibly beyond optimal heat and yields area - which will affect AMD profits and public image.
* Titan has 12 GB of ram so they can heavily push narrative of it being card for surround setups
*Nvidia had no real reason to reveal new cards at GDC as they still have best performing card.
*Assuming chips were quite close in performance - they are forcing AMD into higher clocks - possibly beyond optimal heat and yields area - which will affect AMD profits and public image.
* Titan has 12 GB of ram so they can heavily push narrative of it being card for surround setups
Dayaks
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I don't see the Titan X as an answer to the 390x. The Titan has a multicard niche no other card can touch. Perhaps the Titan X's only competition will be the 980ti in this territory. It takes a fool to crossfire cards this powerful with only 4GB. The Titan X is for people with disposable income looking for performance.
If they have Titan X chips rolling off the line there's no doubt 980ti chips are in cards too since it's a cut down Titan X. That's the true answer to the 390x. Releasing the Titan X before being forced to answer with the 980ti is smart since the 980ti will likely cannabalize some Titan X sales.
If you want a powerful single card for maxing 1080p that's where I see the 390x sitting until Gen II HBM shows up. Which isn't a bad place, it's most of the market.
If they have Titan X chips rolling off the line there's no doubt 980ti chips are in cards too since it's a cut down Titan X. That's the true answer to the 390x. Releasing the Titan X before being forced to answer with the 980ti is smart since the 980ti will likely cannabalize some Titan X sales.
If you want a powerful single card for maxing 1080p that's where I see the 390x sitting until Gen II HBM shows up. Which isn't a bad place, it's most of the market.
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Again everybody is assuming that AMD's flagship does not have more than 4GB. People should wait before jumping to conclusions. AMD designed the consoles and knew the trend towards ever increasing game texture budgets.AMD have been ahead of Nvidia for the past 3 generations in VRAM capacity (GTX 580 vs HD 6970, GTX 680 vs HD 7970 and GTX 780 Ti vs R9 290X). I doubt AMD did not foresee the limitations of 1st gen HBM chips and design a solution with > 4GB VRAM for their 2015 flagship GPU.
Its naive to assume that you cannot put more than 4 GB HBM on an interposer. there are no limitations on the number of HBM stacks than can be put on a interposer. The only current limitation is 1 GB per HBM stack. There are many possibilities - an interleaved memory design with 8 GB HBM connected to the 4 x 1024 bit HBM controller. So each 1024 bit HBM controller is connected to 2 HBM stacks. Its similar to CPUs where a dual channel memory controller is connected to 4 memory slots on the motherboard. The other option is a 6 x 1024 bit memory controller for 6 GB HBM (though i think its unlikely as it would be a waste of bandwidth). The third option is a hybrid memory system with HBM + GDDR5. So lets not prematurely say that AMD's flagship GPU will be limited to 4 GB VRAM.lets wait and watch. AMD might surprise everyone
Its naive to assume that you cannot put more than 4 GB HBM on an interposer. there are no limitations on the number of HBM stacks than can be put on a interposer. The only current limitation is 1 GB per HBM stack. There are many possibilities - an interleaved memory design with 8 GB HBM connected to the 4 x 1024 bit HBM controller. So each 1024 bit HBM controller is connected to 2 HBM stacks. Its similar to CPUs where a dual channel memory controller is connected to 4 memory slots on the motherboard. The other option is a 6 x 1024 bit memory controller for 6 GB HBM (though i think its unlikely as it would be a waste of bandwidth). The third option is a hybrid memory system with HBM + GDDR5. So lets not prematurely say that AMD's flagship GPU will be limited to 4 GB VRAM.lets wait and watch. AMD might surprise everyone
harmattan
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Exactly. There will be very little reason whatsoever of going multi-GPU with 390x with its 4GB limitation. 980ti or Titan X, on the other hand, will be the way to go in the ultra high end and nVidia will price the cards accordingly -- the prospect of going multi-GPU to solve for upper echelon resolutions is going to be a whole lot more expensive.
harmattan
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Nice summary, but extremely likely that both camps know exactly what each other has in their hand. AMD knew what to expect from Titan X well before GDC.
Also, no way AMD would have been able to react with a new piece of hardware -- if that's what you're saying -- between the nV's GDC reveal and its release. The only wiggle room they have is in pricing, and even there the room to move is small.
I do agree that a scenario where the 390x, once released, puts significant pressure on nV to reduce prices.
The 9700 pro was probably one of the best cards ever and was undisputed king at the time. Did it make any difference to ATI ? Nope, they lost market share for 6 straight quarters.
Having the best/fastest card is no guarantee of success.
Brackle
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All AMD has to do is release the 390/390x now with 4gb, with 8gb units coming at a later date.
Nvidia did this numerous times, so It is totally possible since AMD would have to wait to for HBM to make the chips possible for 8gb.
As of right now 4gb is JUST enough for 4k. So AMD is cutting it very close if you ask me. The 290x and 980 GTX both have 4gb of memory now, and no one is having issues with running out of memory for 4k.
Nvidia could easily release a Titan X with 6gb now and be good for multimonitoring gaming as well. Then release a 12gb version later on, that would easily be marketed as a TRUMP card again AMD's 390 release.
Not many people are going 3 or 5 4k monitors. If someone is, they are in the high-end segment and would have no problem forking out $1350 per card out.
Just my 0.02c.
Nvidia did this numerous times, so It is totally possible since AMD would have to wait to for HBM to make the chips possible for 8gb.
As of right now 4gb is JUST enough for 4k. So AMD is cutting it very close if you ask me. The 290x and 980 GTX both have 4gb of memory now, and no one is having issues with running out of memory for 4k.
Nvidia could easily release a Titan X with 6gb now and be good for multimonitoring gaming as well. Then release a 12gb version later on, that would easily be marketed as a TRUMP card again AMD's 390 release.
Not many people are going 3 or 5 4k monitors. If someone is, they are in the high-end segment and would have no problem forking out $1350 per card out.
Just my 0.02c.
No, no it isn't.
You don't seem to understand business at all, allow me to enlighten you a little.
A business cares not one bit about their market share in terms of sales. They care about profit, profit, profit.
If AMD sales 20% less hardware, but earns 1% more net profits as a result, they will be happier. They did less work, for more return.
Sure, if they dropped the bottom out on the prices for the 290x et. al. they would get a surge in sales, but they would make less profit per sale, enough to destroy their margin. They have to get as much money as they can, while they can. Market share be damned.
AMD will be reducing prices soon, no doubt, but they will only do so when they replace that price position with something newer, or become uncompetitive in that price position.
Which brings me to something else you, and many others, don't seem to grasp: price positions. A $250 AMD card doesn't compete with a $300 nVidia card, it competes with the $250 nVidia card. And, the discrete GPU market is not dominated by the flagships, but the GPUs around the $200 mark historically dominate the show. The R9 290 has actually brought the upper performance level prices down to around $270, which will help you understand the positioning of the GTX 970.
In the bread-n-butter $200 segment, AMD dominates, but people are fickle and stupid. They see that X brand has the highest performing top GPU, then buy that brand's lower tier offerings thinking they are getting more. That is usually not the case - especially with nVidia, where performance drops faster than price looking down the product line fro the top.
AMD would be smart to start from the bottom this time, rather than the top. Release a 370 series GPU, and make it more than favorable against the competition. This deflates the older generation prices from the middle/bottom first, leaving the higher margin GPUs still reaping profits and taking advantage of consumer patterns (people see good reviews for AMD 370x, buy the 290x due to positive-brand feelings). Then the 380 series comes out, rinse and repeat, then the 390 series comes out, while nVidia follows their traditional release pattern, not at all wondering why AMD has suddenly started making in-roads using the same old products, since they do the same thing all the time.
Strategy is important to maximize margin and minimize costs. The longer AMD can delay the 390 series the better stock they can have ready, the more mature the product can feel when it gets into the hands of reviewers, and the more they can earn from existing stock and production. Win, win, win.
TaintedSquirrel
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We're talking about AMD's public image ("nods of approval"), not their financial success.
AMD could be a profitable company and still a joke among the hardware community.
AMD could be a profitable company and still a joke among the hardware community.
Right now it looks like AMD's response to the Titan X is the 370. Which may not even be as fast as a 960. By the time the 390x shows up we will already be talking about Pascal and 16nm.
I'm sure NVIDIA will release a 980ti/990 or something but by June all eyes will be on then next gen.
I'm sure NVIDIA will release a 980ti/990 or something but by June all eyes will be on then next gen.
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No doubt....many moons ago I had a 9800 pro, and then later on I had a 5870....both of them were fantastic cards .
I also had an X800 and then an X850 XT-PE....both of them heavily modded (Viper John for those who remember) and both of them tremendous over-clockers
Doesn't work that way either, AMD or nV would both have their schedules and release times set based on how they are designed and manufactured. The hardware is designed and created based on specifications set years before actually launch and they don't have that much tolerance to change once the chip is in manufacturing phase so unless either company has something close to each other that's the only way showing ones hand would be beneficial to the other company. Tap out to launch takes around 6 months or so, so no way to make hard changes to the silicon, all they can do maybe is change clocks which as said above not much room for that either.