Windows 9 demo video close your eyes

Ur_Mom said:
You can't please everyone. Sometimes, you have to bite your tongue and just click out. Some people won't like it no matter what (either legitimate reasons, or just a bias against it or whatever other reason). You can't convince them otherwise. It's almost to the point for some people that they won't accept anything less than an exact Windows 7 start menu. No updates, no changes. Just exactly the same (no mention that it's changed with damn near every release since Win95).

Besides - this is just the technical preview. I'm sure there is some not shown, some will change, some not included in the preview...
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You are correct and indeed it was easy to see this coming. I completely agreed with many Windows 8.x opponents that criticized Windows 8.x for lack of in the box choice particularly concerning options would have allowed Windows 8.x to be more comfortable and familiar to traditional desktop users.

But I think a lot of people that were criticizing the lack of choice really had more of philosophical bone to pick with the concept of a hybrid OS. They simply don't like the inclusion of poplar modern consumer features such as tablet and touch support, an app store, cloud integration etc. They are simply interested in more and more desktop features and that's it.

Yes, Windows needs to improve the desktop experience but it's just not enough for Windows to be desktop only these days as more and more consumers pick up touch devices and become comfortable with the notion of apps and app stores and cloud integration. The desktop and the tablet are going to converge. Probably not completely but at least to some extent. Heck even Google has embraced the idea by allowing Android apps to run on Chrome OS.

It's going to be a tough road for Microsoft. Even when they iron out most of the issues with the hybrid concept, and it looks like they are on a path to do with 9, there just going to angst that the stuff is even there, even if everything can be configured well to suit the user and the device to the needs and wants of the situation.
 
I tossed him on the ole ignore list months ago, apparently I haven't missed much.

As for the start menu, this is much better. It's actually utilizing the horizontal screen space properly, even with the stupid looking enormous tiles. And you can shutdown from the start menu again, yay!

Is the charms bar completely gone now?
 
I welcome the *direction* MS is headed with Windows this iteration. It'll be a much better fit for how I work (yay virtual desktops!) even if it isn't perfect.
 
In my country there's a common expression to 'tile' or to 'throw tiles' when people discuss about throwing up.
 
Dark Shade said:
Is the charms bar completely gone now?
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For keyboard and mouse users yes. It looks like the top right program icon for modern apps has the options from the Charms bar. There is also a search icon in the taskbar in these leaks which I would assume replaces the search option from the Charms bar for system wide searching, though with the Search box in the Start Menu, seems redundant.

There was a screen shot of an option in the registry for something called "EdgeCP" While the charms bar with it's hot corner activation wasn't the best mouse experience, the edge swiping on a tablet worked well. It's possible that the Charms moniker is being dumped, and they call it the Edge Control Panel that will be there for touch users.
 
The biggest problem with Windows8 UI is that it's not intutiive. I couldn't find anything I used to. And after I found them, I realized everything needs 2-3x more clicks to achieve. It's useless for productivity and power users. 8.1 is a big step in regards to that, I don't yet see how this one will perform. Hopefully there'll be a choice of skins that actually look bearable, because this look I wouldn't want on my desktop regardless of productivity.
 
They have me my start menu back, I may actually have this installed longer than a week when it's out. Unlike W8. Seven days of nope.
 
A lot of complaining about a start menu... from windows 8 to this... I just don't get it. I have my desktop and tablets. I didn't HATE the lack of start menu on my desktop, but I preferred the old start menu on desktop. So I installed one of MANY start menu programs out there (classic shell in my case). Free, and only a couple megs. And I have not looked back... My desktop has looked like windows 7 pretty much ever since. That's too hardcore for all these POWER USERS?

Literally millions of posts on message boards all over the internet complained about a start menu and probably had a major impact on the overall perception of win 8. I get people wanted it by default, but sheesh. Understood if too hard for a laymen / non-techie. But people on this forum? I just can't get my head around all the complaining from people on this forum in particular over a start menu.
 
This I can use
along with virtual desktops, I see this as a good thing.

Yes its still overly colorful, Know what? it's also freaking customizable. Goto Personalize and tone down the colors. Don't like the start screen? you wont have to use it, don't like tiles. Then don't use them.
 
Dark Shade said:
And you can shutdown from the start menu again, yay!
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Just a heads up, we've been able to shut down from the Start Screen (button in the top-right corner) since 8.1 Update 1, and we've been able to shut down by right-clicking the start button since 8.1

heatlesssun said:
There is also a search icon in the taskbar in these leaks which I would assume replaces the search option from the Charms bar for system wide searching, though with the Search box in the Start Menu, seems redundant
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I suspect that will be used for activating Cortana.

On Windows Phone 8.1, Cortana is activated by using the hardware "Search" key, which matches the magnifying glass icon on the taskbar.
 
Hopefully Cortana can be removed. I don't want all that audio bloat on my workstation since I'll never use it.
 
DrDoU said:
Late to conversation nothing more than a revved up 8.1.End of that.
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The only thing wrong with 8.1 is Mondern UI as far as I'm concerned. Oh, and requiring logging into your PC with MS account to use Skydrive rather than just signing into the app itself.

Otherwise I'm happy with how 9 is looking. I still don't love the modern ui/start menu hybrid but it's better than no start menu.
 
There are some of us who like most of what MS is doing - I esp love signing in with MS account, syncing everything across pc's, saving stuff to Skydrive, $20/year for Office 365, tons of online space etc. All of this is a real boon to most users, once they actually start using it.

Its a real shame something as trivial as start menu, default metro apps and the difficulties Win 8 seemed to present alienated so many people who never gave it a chance ever again. There is a lot of innovation here if you only open your eyes and see, and real value for users.
 
The overall idea of Windows 8 was correct but the implementation was poor. I think one reason why there is this cyclic perception of Windows, the old "bad release, good release" theme, is because the bad releases aren't really that bad, the overall ideas are generally solid, but in getting the basics together there's never room left for polish and fixing obvious issues. There was clearly a LOT of pressure to get Windows 8 out the door to address tablets and in Sinofsky's style, he had is idea and just pushed it through. Which I guess is kind of what Ballmer and others wanted, just to get something out the door and then come back later and rectify the problems, which is classic Windows development.

Thus far the major complaints of what's been shown in these leaks are about the aesthetics of the UI, which will change, and "I hate tiles" which I think is ultimately irrelevant given configurability of the Start system in these leaks. Start Menu, Start Menu with tiles or Start Screen. Nothing is forced as so many complained about in 8.

This seems to be on the right track, the Start system is the accumulation of what everyone wanted in Windows 8 from the beginning. You don't like tiles, fine, don't use them. I like tiles and will, either on the Start Menu or Start Screen. So the choice is there in this area and that's win for everyone. As for the modern UI in general and the asthestics and Aero glass and all of that, that's a tougher subject, but not nearly as important. There are going to be those that just hate the idea of the modern UI and modern apps on the desktop. These people will never be happy. But if 9 comes in with enough new desktop features and has a readily familiar UI to traditional Windows desktop users, this mostly becomes irrelevant to the average user, both consumer and enterprise.
 
The flat windows makes me think of a high resolution Windows 2.0.

I guess the 80s are back in Windows 9?
 
I sort of like it. If there was a given option in the settings or a mouse swipe + click combo to change the UI to Win 7 alike UI then that would be awesome. 2 flavours in 1 package.
 
UrielDagda said:
The flat windows makes me think of a high resolution Windows 2.0.

I guess the 80s are back in Windows 9?
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There's a post of mine a few years back making fun of Windows 8 modern UI. I said it looks like someone with a messy desktop and or windows 3.1 with icons everywhere.
 
Everyone is using flat design - Android, iOS, OSX, everyone. And they all copied it from Metro. Why single out MS?
 
Actually, it appears, in this case, that Microsoft copied Apple:

Apple_Macintosh_Desktop.png


Besides, Apple's current design language isn't "flat". Flat design eschews gradients and textures, which Apple most certainly does not.
 
One thing that annoyed me in 8.1 was the tiles themselves - specifically their coloring. I guess you used to be able to change the colors, but they then removed that functionality in 8.1. Just adding in the option to change the tile background color would go a long way toward making the ui less Fisher Price.

I hope they add some time customization into win 9.
 
wonderfield said:
Actually, it appears, in this case, that Microsoft copied Apple:
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In the court case Apple filed against MS for Windows, it was determined that MS "copied" Xerox. The ruling actually stated that Xerox would be the one who could sue MS, but Xerox never did. lol

What's funny is that people still think Apple invented the GUI... they didn't*. Also, Apple wasn't the first company to many commercial systems running a GUI. There were already multiple systems on the market including workstations and pared down ones sold as personal computers. The stupid movie Pirates of Silicon Valley is responsible for a lot of this misinformation.

* this is the Xerox Star GUI released commercially 3 years before Macintosh was introduced: http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taouu/html/graphics/starscreen.jpg <-- I would laugh so hard if those icons were live tiles.

edit: I'm not definding MS's flat look Modern UI in any way. It's ugly and pretty much every other OS maker with a flat UI has something that looks far better.
 
I'm not suggesting that Apple invented the GUI. I was going to add a quip about Apple copying Xerox, but I figured it'd just detract from the purpose of the post, which was to silence the incessant droning about how everyone in the industry is so-called "copying" Microsoft's design language.

If anything, Apple's design language has much more in common with Google's pre-Material design language than it does with Metro, at least on aesthetic level.
 
Wow interesting reading.

Here's a slightly later version.

xerox-star-8010-large1.jpg


Though many people also think Apple invented the mp3 player.

It's a bit funny thinking of Apple taking MS to court to say "but we copied it first!".


Still here is a short description of a GUI desktop OS from a Wikipedia article.
"A desktop metaphor was used, in which files looked like pieces of paper. File directories looked like file folders."
So it's kind of a logical obvious design based on a desk top and filing cabinet.
 
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I am So glad I switch to Linux full time. Got tired of Microsoft treating the PC as a second class citizen.
 
in Linux i can choose whatever GUI i want and customize it to my taste and needs, and that for free. Dont know why MS got such a hard time to offer choices. Windows is not exactly free...so give people the a variety of GUI to choose from.
 
game14 said:
in Linux i can choose whatever GUI i want and customize it to my taste and needs, and that for free. Dont know why MS got such a hard time to offer choices. Windows is not exactly free...so give people the a variety of GUI to choose from.
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Microsoft gives Windows Media Player for free. Gets sued in Europe for monopoly practices. If Microsoft monopolized GUIs on Windows...
 
Slight improvement, although still not what I was hoping for.

The GUI stylization is simply harder to see and isn't easy on the eyes. Lucky for me, my eyesight is fine (for now). I feel bad for those with poorer eyesight/those who need glasses. :p The border-less design and weird coloration was a terrible idea. To top it off, it looks very ugly to me compared to Aero.

It would also be nice if they gave an option to disable Modern/Metro entirely. I have no need for it on my desktop and won't want to accidentally enable it. Quite honestly, I don't see any issues with the Win 7 GUI that warrants a change. It works extremely quickly and is well optimized for the mouse/keyboard.
 
game14 said:
in Linux i can choose whatever GUI i want and customize it to my taste and needs, and that for free. Dont know why MS got such a hard time to offer choices. Windows is not exactly free...so give people the a variety of GUI to choose from.
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While offering all kinds of in the box UI customization sounds great on paper, it's of little value to enterprise customers and average users just don't care that much. I'm not saying it would be a bad thing to have more in the box customization, but the ROI probably isn't as high as many who want this think.
 
Tsumi said:
Microsoft gives Windows Media Player for free. Gets sued in Europe for monopoly practices. If Microsoft monopolized GUIs on Windows...
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The GUI is a part of the operating system, not an application. So nothing stops them.
 
heatlesssun said:
While offering all kinds of in the box UI customization sounds great on paper, it's of little value to enterprise customers and average users just don't care that much. I'm not saying it would be a bad thing to have more in the box customization, but the ROI probably isn't as high as many who want this think.
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well its not that hard to offer a different GUI for each kind of user group upfront. Like they got their profesional, home and ultimate edition. Its possible to do the same with GUIs. So each user can decide upfront which one suits his needs. Of course its nice if you can change GUI afterwards with no extra cost.
If Linux can do that for free , i dont see the point MS cant.
 
game14 said:
well its not that hard to offer a different GUI for each kind of user group upfront. Like they got their profesional, home and ultimate edition. Its possible to do the same with GUIs. So each user can decide upfront which one suits his needs. Of course its nice if you can change GUI afterwards with no extra cost.
If Linux can do that for free , i dont see the point MS cant.
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I remember a few years ago when these 3D virtual desktop managers were becoming a big deal with Linux folks and many pointing out the versatility of Linux and its UI and how Windows 7 was so bland in comparison. And who today really cares about that stuff? I'm not saying that tons of UI customization is a bad thing, but it is a niche thing.
 
heatlesssun said:
I remember a few years ago when these 3D virtual desktop managers were becoming a big deal with Linux folks and many pointing out the versatility of Linux and its UI and how Windows 7 was so bland in comparison. And who today really cares about that stuff? I'm not saying that tons of UI customization is a bad thing, but it is a niche thing.
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Linux users care very much when they pick their window managers. They just don't have to cry foul about it because there's a total freedom of choice.
 
B00nie said:
Linux users care very much when they pick their window managers. They just don't have to cry foul about it because there's a total freedom of choice.
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Yes, they care VERY much when they pick THEIR window managers. They will also care VERY much when you pick yours, and it's not the same. They will go on for hours on why your choice sucks, and theirs is better.

Linux users are like vegans. They let you know about how awesome they are and how much better they are than you. :D (I run Linux Mint on a laptop, CentOS on servers, Windows everywhere else).

Windows does have some alternatives, but they are third party. I believe it's the same with Linux - KDE/Gnome/etc. are all developed by different groups. Stardock and others make some good alternative stuff for Windows. Still the basic underlying explorer.exe, but modified heavily.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Yes, they care VERY much when they pick THEIR window managers. They will also care VERY much when you pick yours, and it's not the same. They will go on for hours on why your choice sucks, and theirs is better.

Linux users are like vegans. They let you know about how awesome they are and how much better they are than you. :D (I run Linux Mint on a laptop, CentOS on servers, Windows everywhere else).

Windows does have some alternatives, but they are third party. I believe it's the same with Linux - KDE/Gnome/etc. are all developed by different groups. Stardock and others make some good alternative stuff for Windows. Still the basic underlying explorer.exe, but modified heavily.
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Windows have enough problems without introducing 3rd party code injections lol.

By the way no linux user has ever come to tell me my window manager choices were bad. Nor did I ever ask.
 
B00nie said:
Linux users care very much when they pick their window managers. They just don't have to cry foul about it because there's a total freedom of choice.
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Linux users, which constitutes less than 2% of desktop OS users. And who is crying foul about choices? I'm just saying that not all choices are that relevant to large groups of people. Windows users in general don't seem to care a lot about tons of UI choices. Indeed the much of the angst over Windows 8 was about just one UI choice, the Start Menu.
 
B00nie said:
Windows have enough problems without introducing 3rd party code injections lol.

By the way no linux user has ever come to tell me my window manager choices were bad. Nor did I ever ask.
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Visit forums. Ask which WM is best. Watch mayhem ensue. :) I feel it all comes down to personal preference, but even in the Windows world, you have people saying that one is better than the other (Standard desktop vs. Modern UI) and more efficient and has nothing to do with personal preference... ;) I think the WM debates get more crazy than "which distro is best?" debates.
 
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