Still On Windows XP? Here’s Some Bad Advice

schmuckley said:
Why upgrade from XP when it works??
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Uhh, do you know anything about computer security at all?

It is an absolutely moronic idea to have ANY computer connected to a network after its OS has stopped receiving security patches. It's pretty much guaranteed that eventually you will fall victim to an unpatched 0-day, and it will happen MUCH faster than you think.

Furthermore, XP was less secure than the more modern alternatives, even before the end of support. UAC - as hated as it was when it was first launched with Vista, brought Unix-like user accounts and security to Windows, and was a HUGE leap for security.

There are a few cardinal rules when it comes to computer security that EVERYONE should follow regardless of platform (yes, including Mac and Linux)

1.) NEVER run a operating system that is no longer receiving security support, unless you plan on having it completely disconnected from any network.

2.) ALWAYS keep all your software up to date. Most exploits come from installed software and plugins, not from the operating system itself.

3.) Never work directly in an administrator account. Set up a limited user account for your day to day stuff, and have a separate admin account only used for computer maintenance. (and never ever ever disable UAC on windows.)

4.) Run anti-malware and antivirus software. YES, even on OSX and Linux. A firewall isn't a bad idea either.
 
lcpiper said:
And here is a guy who has his finger right on the pulse of the problem but doesn't get the correct prognosis.

You guys need to face it, there are people out there that don't actually do anything important with their computers, it just a reference tool that they barely know how to use. They bought it because "everyone has one" and they never really learned anything beyond how to use a browser, which they don't even know it's called a browser. They don't want to spend more money on it because it is not worth it to them. They never bought anything online, don't do banking online, may not even use email, and if they can check the quick-pick wins or keep up with www.nascar.com and see the race schedule and read some storys, well that's all they ever did with it and it still does that, at 14K sqweee-weee-pong-sqweee-weeeeeeee-woo-bee-beep.

They don't want to spend any money and they are going to use it until it dies and then maybe they will buy another one, maybe.
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OK, so there are those people out there. Their information isn't being stolen, however, their machines are not part of a huge botnet that helps hackers steal from others, send out spam, and otherwise make life on the internet more miserable. If there isn't any other reason to move away from XP, at the very least think about how you're hurting others.

Then again, most people don't really care much about that, either. They're just idiots.
 
Microsoft Security Essentials is not a good replacement for an AV suite. It does a so-so job, but they've really stopped putting effort into it.

Bitdefender, Avast, and AVG all have free versions that will detect better.

Really the best thing you can do is remove Java. Most infections I've seen in the past 2-3 years are Java trojans.
 
None of that is good advice at all. Ultimately it's based on the persons needs. Let me break it down.

Type #1 Parents

Good chance your parents or grand parents aren't using the computer beyond a web browser and document printing. And if you have a horny old dad or grand dad, then they likely visit a lot of porn websites. The best solution would be Linux, or Ubuntu in this case. They of course can't set it up themselves, but hopefully you have a grand child that's tech savvy enough to do it. It's only a problem if they need to use Netflix.

Type #2 Gamer

No matter what game it is they want to play, then you have no choice but to get Windows 7 or 8. As much as I hate Windows 8, there's a lot of tools out there that'll turn it into a fake 7. You could get away with gaming on a Mac, but mostly only Blizzard games work.

Type #3 Picture whore

These people need a picture to store all their pictures of things they did or do, that nobody wants to see. They obviously need a computer with storage and Macs do have hard drives. A Mac would be perfect, cause they likely have a self esteem issue anyway, and Macs do make you feel special.

Type #4 Poor as hell

Got no money and afford to upgrade your PC or OS? Stick with Windows XP or learn Linux. Seriously, what other choice do you have? Both have their pros and cons. Windows XP can be very secure, so long as you have decent firewall and anti virus software. Also, be careful not to download everything you see that's offered to you. Linux is very easy to setup nowadays, and you could get some Windows applications to work with Wine. Just don't expect to get that far into Linux without learning a thing or two about it.
 
Zarathustra[H];1040735656 said:
Nah I agree with him.

Running a Mac is just a bad idea for anyone.

It's a company with a poor track record for patching known 0-day exploits. They are very cavalier about security, instead hiding behind their reality distortion field claiming macs are not vulnerable...

Furthermore, the cost for what you get is absolutely INSANE, and with their modern practices of soldering ram to motherboards and limiting upgrades, you'll be forced to spend that same insane amount of money to upgrade again, sooner than you would have to if you could just upgrade.

If people care about software compatibility, Macs are also a problem. Sure there is more software than on Linux, but nowhere near the universal offerings for the Windows platform.


Don't get me wrong. I am not a Windows fan. I'm just saying OSX is NOT the answer. Anyone who takes advice to go out and buy a Mac without very specific mac based requirements is simply following bad advice.

Windows has its problems, but most of them are in its past. It's more stable and secure than it has ever been. Sure there are larger numbers of exploits that come out for Windows than for OSX, but these days that is primarily because it is a larger target base than other operating systems, not because of any inherent flaws. And when exploits are discovered, Microsoft is MUCH better at patching them than Apple is. Apple tend to just stick their fingers in their ears and s cream LALALALALALALA for several months before fixing serious security issues.

It is my strong opinion that no person well informed about computers can with a clean conscience recommend macs to latyman friends and family. It is simply terrible advice.
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You're just wrong lol. There are a handful of exploits at large for Macs at best so it's still extremely safe to use just because your chances of running into an attack are extremely slim if you stick to using app store apps and stay legit.

Just like iPhones per se are not ultra secure but since they're locked down and content for them is agressively controlled, you're much safer off using one than the other options.
 
InternationalHat said:
Microsoft Security Essentials is not a good replacement for an AV suite. It does a so-so job, but they've really stopped putting effort into it.

Bitdefender, Avast, and AVG all have free versions that will detect better.

Really the best thing you can do is remove Java. Most infections I've seen in the past 2-3 years are Java trojans.
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But what about Minecraft?! :(
 
InternationalHat said:
Microsoft Security Essentials is not a good replacement for an AV suite. It does a so-so job, but they've really stopped putting effort into it.

Bitdefender, Avast, and AVG all have free versions that will detect better.

Really the best thing you can do is remove Java. Most infections I've seen in the past 2-3 years are Java trojans.
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I agree about Java. I have to keep Java around because of FC switch and raid management apps and server remote management consoles, so I put it on a VM. If I have to manage a switch or raid array or remote into a server, I just power up my VM and run it from there. Also, if any of my coworkers need it, they can use that same VM. (It's on a VMWare ESXi server.) That keeps our vulnerability at a minimum. I never surf the regular web from that VM, and I tell my coworkers to do the same. If it gets messed up, it doesn't have any personal info, and it gets backed up daily. So, we can recover nicely in case of trouble.

Javascript is just as much trouble, though. On every one of my machines, I install Chrome and ScriptSafe. It's kind of a pain to make sure and just approve scripts from known sources. (Playing a Youtube video almost always fails at first, and I have to add some googlevideo.com permission to the list before it will play.) However, it is well worth it. There are so many popups and malware that get blocked, that I will not back down from using it.
 
Zarathustra[H];1040735656 said:
Nah I agree with him.

Running a Mac is just a bad idea for anyone.

It's a company with a poor track record for patching known 0-day exploits. They are very cavalier about security, instead hiding behind their reality distortion field claiming macs are not vulnerable...

Furthermore, the cost for what you get is absolutely INSANE, and with their modern practices of soldering ram to motherboards and limiting upgrades, you'll be forced to spend that same insane amount of money to upgrade again, sooner than you would have to if you could just upgrade.

If people care about software compatibility, Macs are also a problem. Sure there is more software than on Linux, but nowhere near the universal offerings for the Windows platform.


Don't get me wrong. I am not a Windows fan. I'm just saying OSX is NOT the answer. Anyone who takes advice to go out and buy a Mac without very specific mac based requirements is simply following bad advice.

Windows has its problems, but most of them are in its past. It's more stable and secure than it has ever been. Sure there are larger numbers of exploits that come out for Windows than for OSX, but these days that is primarily because it is a larger target base than other operating systems, not because of any inherent flaws. And when exploits are discovered, Microsoft is MUCH better at patching them than Apple is. Apple tend to just stick their fingers in their ears and s cream LALALALALALALA for several months before fixing serious security issues.

It is my strong opinion that no person well informed about computers can with a clean conscience recommend macs to latyman friends and family. It is simply terrible advice.
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So, all the Cisco engineers running Macs are idiots then?
 
ep0x73 said:
Why would it if you have a current AV's? that's their job.
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Huh? I'm not sure I follow you here.

How does running an up-to-date antivirus protect you from zero-day exploits that, by definition, are unknown to Microsoft and A/V companies alike?

How does running an up-to-date antivirus protect against low-level exploits that said antivirus was never designed to protect in the first place?
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
It does make sense. Apple's computer OS UI isn't familiar, but it's designed to match the available interface devices available to the user behind the screen. It has, I think, more reasonable context clues and hasn't drastically evolved in recent times for no good reason (or at least the reason that the company wants to take a percentage of 3rd party software sale revenues since they already do that). Also, there's emulation for Windows-based apps.
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I have nothing against OSX, but I found that it was more difficult to do much. With Finder and such, and a lot of applications not listed on the launcher, it was hard to find some things. I ended up at the Terminal due to familiarity with *nix/BSD command line. I'm still learning OSX, though. Slowly...

If you need emulation for Windows based apps (basically running Windows), why switch? Why buy a new computer with a new OS to avoid the newer "other" OS yet still need to run the OS you avoided to run the programs you need? Just eliminate the new OS and use the one you wanted to avoid....

Still, OSX isn't bad. I just don't see people that use and run Windows programs running to it. If you can use an Apple and aren't tied to Windows programs, it's great. If you are just going because you can't figure out Windows or whatever, it's a bad reason. There are reasons for switching, but that's not a good one.
 
dgingeri said:
Easy, because many hackers are sitting on exploits they don't want to use until they know they aren't going to get fixed by MS. Once the end comes, exploits are going to arrive like mad. On top of that, many exploits come in below the Anti-virus radar on XP, slipping in and disabling or hiding from any current anti-virus program. XP was designed with many things going on that escape the notice of anti-virus programs, and new viruses and malware can certainly take advantage of that. Also, XP's network structure has so many holes it makes swiss cheese look solid. There are many hacks that can get through Windows XP's firewall without the user doing anything.

That's why Windows Vista introduced the User Access Control, to bring things up that would normally escape a virus scan. Windows 7 and 8 tuned it down a bit because of user complaints. There are also many changes in the firewall and network structure that can prevent hacks and exploits as well. The newer OSes are far more protected on the network side, and nothing has been shown to get through without at least some user interaction.

If you keep running Windows XP, you will get viruses and malware, guaranteed. I'd say likely within 3 months. If not, then at the very least within a year. Your credit card and checking account info will get stolen and used, your phone number will be sold to telemarketers, and your personal info will be out there for a hacker to apply for credit cards in your name. If you really want to keep Windows XP, sign up for LifeLock. :)
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Bah, why would any hacker want to get on my machine, so they can read my email or see my HardOCP posts? seriously I am the least of their target.

Business computers will be hit first, they actually might have $$ information.

If you have a current AV that should by theory block any hack attempts plus MWB works in tandem to do it too.
 
Maximus825 said:
So, all the Cisco engineers running Macs are idiots then?
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Not all.... But, I've found a few Cisco engineers that were awesome at Cisco and networking. Yet, they still ask simple questions with regards to PC use. I say people should use what they like and are comfortable with. If they can use a Mac to do their job, excellent. Stay with it. If they use Windows, perfect.
 
OK, so there are those people out there. Their information isn't being stolen, however, their machines are not part of a huge botnet that helps hackers steal from others, send out spam, and otherwise make life on the internet more miserable. If there isn't any other reason to move away from XP, at the very least think about how you're hurting others.

Then again, most people don't really care much about that, either. They're just idiots.
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Or, so ignorant they don't know any better.
 
ep0x73 said:
Bah, why would any hacker want to get on my machine, so they can read my email or see my HardOCP posts? seriously I am the least of their target.

Business computers will be hit first, they actually might have $$ information.

If you have a current AV that should by theory block any hack attempts plus MWB works in tandem to do it too.
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Even if they can't get personal info from your machine, they can still turn it into a bot for their botnet and hurt other people with it.

And, no, there are currently thousands of malware programs out there that fly right in under most anti-virus programs and settle right in.

http://ultimatepeter.com/how-hackers-make-a-trojan-or-keylogger-almost-fully-undetectable/

Notice that demonstration is entriely on a Windows XP machine. The current Windows OSes aren't invulnerable to this, but they do have many more protections against it.
 
B00nie said:
You're just wrong lol. There are a handful of exploits at large for Macs at best so it's still extremely safe to use just because your chances of running into an attack are extremely slim if you stick to using app store apps and stay legit.

Just like iPhones per se are not ultra secure but since they're locked down and content for them is agressively controlled, you're much safer off using one than the other options.
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That's the RDF at work! :p
 
ep0x73 said:
Bah, why would any hacker want to get on my machine, so they can read my email or see my HardOCP posts? seriously I am the least of their target.

Business computers will be hit first, they actually might have $$ information.

If you have a current AV that should by theory block any hack attempts plus MWB works in tandem to do it too.
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Two separate questions:

1.) Do you ever buy anything online, or use online banking?

2.) Would you like your machine to be part of a botnet performing illegal activities, using your CPU cycles, power and bandwidth?
 
lcpiper said:
Not even close.
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The NSA and serious hackers just laugh at that because they know there are a shit ton of people out there that still actually believe that. And I'm afraid there are some of those people posting here as well.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I have nothing against OSX, but I found that it was more difficult to do much. With Finder and such, and a lot of applications not listed on the launcher, it was hard to find some things. I ended up at the Terminal due to familiarity with *nix/BSD command line. I'm still learning OSX, though. Slowly...

If you need emulation for Windows based apps (basically running Windows), why switch? Why buy a new computer with a new OS to avoid the newer "other" OS yet still need to run the OS you avoided to run the programs you need? Just eliminate the new OS and use the one you wanted to avoid....

Still, OSX isn't bad. I just don't see people that use and run Windows programs running to it. If you can use an Apple and aren't tied to Windows programs, it's great. If you are just going because you can't figure out Windows or whatever, it's a bad reason. There are reasons for switching, but that's not a good one.
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Ever try to join a Mac to a Windows AD domain or set up a network printer? It's a horrid experience. (People complain like mad because of Windows' UAC prompting to click yes or no, but I got asked for the root password on this Mac eight times just trying to set up a stupid network printer.) Trying to actually troubleshoot a network problem on a Mac is pretty miserable, and wireless networking troubleshooting is near impossible unless you've been using OSX for years.

Then get into the actual support from Apple, even for people who paid the extra $1000 to get a 5 year on-site repair contract on a Mac Pro. I had a Mac Pro I had to support some years ago. It had problems with locking up. I'd get a complaint by the user that it wasn't working, and it would take several hours on the phone before they'd send someone out, and then it would take up to two weeks before anyone would show up. After 5 service calls and nearly a year later, we finally got them to actually fix the problem, by replacing the machine entirely. $6000 spent on that POS, and it was nearly unusable for over a year. After that, my company had to buy two new iMacs to make sure our web apps would work on it, and both came in with major hardware trouble. The first one I unboxed would hang while going through the initial setup. The second would overheat and hang after only about an hour of web browser use. We were told by Apple to take them to an Apple store, and that although they were bad right out of the box, we had to wait upwards of two weeks to get them fixed.

I've only had a few experiences in using a Mac, but they've all been absolutely horrible. I am NOT impressed with Apple by any stretch of the imagination.
 
B00nie said:
You're just wrong lol. There are a handful of exploits at large for Macs at best so it's still extremely safe to use just because your chances of running into an attack are extremely slim if you stick to using app store apps and stay legit.

Just like iPhones per se are not ultra secure but since they're locked down and content for them is agressively controlled, you're much safer off using one than the other options.
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Lets just take a recent zero day example, the SSL bug, arguably one of them most severe security flaws detected on any platform in the last decade.

The problem apparently started some time in mid 2012. It is unclear when it was detected, but it was announced to the public with the IOS update in late february, when it was patched on phones and tablets.

The brillian people at apple announced the bug, while only patching iOS, essentially 0-day:ing their own OSX platform, which didn't get an update for another several days.

Friday 02/21: Hey guys, we have a SEVERE flaw in our secure sockets layer across all of our implementations, and we are patching mobile devices today. OSX is still vulnerable.

Tuesday 02/25: We finally patched OSX.

Brilliant! They essentially told the worlds criminals how to break compromise secure sockets on every OSX machine in the world and then left it untouched for four days, an eternity for a flaw this severe...

And this is just one in a long line of examples. They took over THREE YEARS to patch the FinFisher trojan hole...

OS X may not get as many attacks as windows platforms, but this is simply because it is a smaller target. Why do criminals rob banks? Because that's where the money is. There are MANY more Windows users), but when they get them, they have a horribly nonchalant attitude to them and a track record of trying to hide rather than address them, and taking a very very long time to address them, leaving users exposed.

Apple's culture of secrecy simply results in a horrible track record on security, and their users are blinded to it because of the reality distortion field... It is sad.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Also, there's emulation for Windows-based apps.
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So lets an emulator on a different OS because Windows 8.1 isn't suited for KBM use though the Windows desktop software running on a Mac in an emulator would run on 8.1 with KBM just like prior versions of Windows?

CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Seriously, moving stuff like Office from one computer to another isn't easy to do when its all on some OEM restore disc. For home users, that's kinda a non-issue and this article is mostly targeted at home users, not businesses. You can tell that just by how its written.
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A lot of the cheaper tablets and hybrids come with Office 2013 Home & Student Edition. There are a ton of options when it comes to Windows 8 devices for consumers at price points that just can't be reached with Macs.
 
Just moved a "pro-farmville" level user to Kubuntu, he's as happy as a pig in shit. He doesn't need to install programs so the major weaknesses in Linux won't affect him.

That's the beauty of Linux on the desktop, it's for two groups. The first people who could just use a smart phone and there for don't care about how sensitive, temperamental, and generally unkind Linux is. A simplistic all-in-one install like Kubuntu is ideal for grammas and soccer mums with their spacefaces and mybooks. The second is people like me who like to far around with the operating system as a major part of PC ownership. Unfortunately is still pretty bad for most people in between, though Mint just keeps getting better and we're seeing more and more activity on the gaming front. (All hail GABEN!)
 
heatlesssun said:
So lets an emulator on a different OS because Windows 8.1 isn't suited for KBM use though the Windows desktop software running on a Mac in an emulator would run on 8.1 with KBM just like prior versions of Windows?
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I'm not talking about full OS emulation.

A lot of the cheaper tablets and hybrids come with Office 2013 Home & Student Edition. There are a ton of options when it comes to Windows 8 devices for consumers at price points that just can't be reached with Macs.
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True, but not everyone wants to use Windows 8 on any device be it a tablet, laptop, or desktop as made obvious by the slow uptake of the OS by comsumers and businesses. There are alternatives and not everyone is gonna ignore them. In fact, Macs sold a lot better in 2013, possibly due to Windows 8's lack of appeal.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14...les-surge-285-as-overall-pc-market-shrinks-75
 
Maximus825 said:
So, all the Cisco engineers running Macs are idiots then?
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They aren't necessarily idiots, but they also didn't pay for those machines out of their own pocket. No consumer can justify the price of a Mac other than saying that they want to look wealthy/cool in front of other people.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
Just moved a "pro-farmville" level user to Kubuntu, he's as happy as a pig in shit. He doesn't need to install programs so the major weaknesses in Linux won't affect him.

That's the beauty of Linux on the desktop, it's for two groups. The first people who could just use a smart phone and there for don't care about how sensitive, temperamental, and generally unkind Linux is. A simplistic all-in-one install like Kubuntu is ideal for grammas and soccer mums with their spacefaces and mybooks. The second is people like me who like to far around with the operating system as a major part of PC ownership. Unfortunately is still pretty bad for most people in between, though Mint just keeps getting better and we're seeing more and more activity on the gaming front. (All hail GABEN!)
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Linux works perfectly for most light users. Gamers and corporate users still have trouble due to lacking app support. Other than that linux is far from being unfriendly anymore.
 
Zarathustra[H];1040735908 said:
OS X may not get as many attacks as windows platforms, but this is simply because it is a smaller target.
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You could have just ended your rant there. All that you needed to say.

It does not matter if OSX has a gazillion holes as long as it does not have 2 million exploits in the wild like windows does. I can browse for 10 years before finding a single OSX attack.
 
B00nie said:
It does not matter if OSX has a gazillion holes as long as it does not have 2 million exploits in the wild like windows does. I can browse for 10 years before finding a single OSX attack.
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...if you ignore the examples I just gave, sure. Reading my linked article may shed some light as well...
 
Mac's UI drives me bonkers. I suppose it is intuitive for a lot of people, but it is mind numbingly frustrating for me. It consistently goes against most of my instincts. Then again, my first experience on a computer was an Apple II... Oh wait.
 
Don't get a Chromebook because it needs an internet connection??

Hang on this is 2014, not 1998.

If you don't have internet most computing devices aren't going to be a whole lot of use for the average user.
 
Well Chromebooks are also pretty invasive from a Google data mining perspective too. They didn't mention that, but the stuff Google collects about your usage of the device is likely as detailed as everything else, like every single thing you've ever searched from them which makes them pretty creepy in addition to missing a lot of capabilities of a more conventional PC. It's such a shame too because they're priced really well and the hardware from most vendors is kinda cute looking. It's like selling your soul to get it though which makes it a not appealing thing for a lot of us.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Well Chromebooks are also pretty invasive from a Google data mining perspective too. They didn't mention that, but the stuff Google collects about your usage of the device is likely as detailed as everything else, like every single thing you've ever searched from them which makes them pretty creepy in addition to missing a lot of capabilities of a more conventional PC. It's such a shame too because they're priced really well and the hardware from most vendors is kinda cute looking. It's like selling your soul to get it though which makes it a not appealing thing for a lot of us.
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And thats an issue for the average user...when they are already using smartphones and using Chrome/Facebook/Twitter/Amazon etc. etc. already?

It's a bit too late to be shy now.
 
Opinions wanted:

Best firewall, and AV for old xp machine?
 
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