Kingdom Come: Deliverance

LeninGHOLA said:
Maybe I skipped Math Day, but I don't think you can walk a whole 3.5 square miles in 45 minutes.

Yes, I'm calling Skyrim mediocre.
Click to expand...

It's that you are walking 3.5 square miles but you can walk from one edge to another in about that time which bothers me. I miss the days of massive space to work with, I understand a lot of that was gimmicky ways to make larger areas like Daggerfall. But Everquest had some heft to it. That game made you feel like you were just a small piece of a whole and I think RPGs these days are missing that. Starting small and building your way up to being important.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Maybe I skipped Math Day, but I don't think you can walk a whole 3.5 square miles in 45 minutes.

Yes, I'm calling Skyrim mediocre.
Click to expand...

I think he was saying walk around the edges. not grid walk the whole map.

Every one knows skyrim is mediocre :p
 
Mungojerrie said:
It's that you are walking 3.5 square miles but you can walk from one edge to another in about that time which bothers me. I miss the days of massive space to work with, I understand a lot of that was gimmicky ways to make larger areas like Daggerfall. But Everquest had some heft to it. That game made you feel like you were just a small piece of a whole and I think RPGs these days are missing that. Starting small and building your way up to being important.
Click to expand...

Average human walking speed is less than 3.5 miles per hour.
 
That's why he said average. i think he was excluding freakishly tall people and those weird power walkers. ;)
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Average human walking speed is less than 3.5 miles per hour.
Click to expand...

3.5 square miles is 1.87 miles on each side - if it's a square. It's about 2.65 miles diagonally.

Anyway, I don't think it really matters how long it takes to walk from one edge to another. I mean, in Skyrim most people just fast traveled anyway.

3.5 square miles does seem 'small' relative to other games, but I won't judge it just from that number alone without more context about the game. For one, other games didn't aim at the realism of this one.
 
shifty68 said:
That's why he said average. i think he was excluding freakishly tall people and those weird power walkers. ;)
Click to expand...

I'm 6' 2", so I wouldn't consider myself freakishly tall, and I don't do the weird power-walking thing.

I do not agree with the comments about Skyrim being mediocre, though. I thought it was a great game, and have 100s of hours into it.

Regarding the OP game, it looks very interesting.
 
Last edited:
·PitBuLL·;1040491945 said:
Fuckin A you ain't the only one with a hard dick after seeing that trailer
Click to expand...

QFT

Mungojerrie said:
What is this? A world for ants? How is there supposed to be an epic story when people can't even fit inside the world. It would have to be at least..... three times bigger than this!
Click to expand...
lol well played.
LeninGHOLA said:
Maybe I skipped Math Day, but I don't think you can walk a whole 3.5 square miles in 45 minutes.

Yes, I'm calling Skyrim mediocre.
Click to expand...

Ihavetheelderscrolls said:
It's tough to say, that does seem small considering most people can briskly walk 3 miles in 15 minutes. 45 minutes to walk across the entire map seems really small. If you're on horseback I'd guess it only take you 10 minutes to cross the map.

If the environment is really rich, maybe it won't matter?

...and are we really calling skyrim "Mediocre"?
Click to expand...

I also consider Skyrim mediocre. I often thought I'd go back to it after many more mods were released, but the truth of that game is that I already know everything that's going to happen. Unfortunately there are no mods that completely replace all the shitty dialogue with anything that helps you give a damn. Boring empty world. There's nothing you can really sink your teeth into imo.
 
Last edited:
IMHO, it is easy to wow people with graphics. But for such an RPG (non magic) to succeed, the combat system has to be flawless and non repetitive. The use of fantasy elements (healers, spells, enchantmwents) in most RPGs, "break" the monotony of combat and upgrading items, as well as adding "wow" factor to battle scenes. Now, if this game comes up and there is some combo of fencing manouvers that can defeat 80% of encounters and nothing else, i don't think it will make a huge success.
 
Yeah I meant walk the border of the landscape. Again, it's unfair to judge since who knows who rich the environment will be.

Sheesh, well obviously with my handle, I love Elder Scrolls games but I still wouldn't call Skyrim mediocre. I'd call the storyline and acting mediocre but the sheer scale and flexibility alone were awesome. There isn't really any other game that has accomplished that grand of scale before in that setting. For that accomplishment alone I can't call it mediocre.

Two Worlds was mediocre Risen 2 was mediocre, Skyrim was "good". Obviously all IMO of course...

I can't wait until The Witcher 3 and Dragon age comes out....and now this new game if it happens!
 
Not much flexibility if none of the choices you make in the game have any lasting impact. The game world, for all its scale, remained virtually static throughout. Binary story "branching" that ends up being 95% fluff. You are the Chosen One for every guild and faction, somehow. Character creation and race selection had minimal to 0 influence on how the game plays out. You can become the master of every guild without even being remotely proficient in any of the skill based prerequisites for said guilds.

Pretty much nobody cared one bit after I assassinated the Emperor. You were treated the same way you would be had you stolen a cheese wheel from a merchant cart.

The game felt like a corpse. More theme park than sandbox.
 
Faethon said:
IMHO, it is easy to wow people with graphics. But for such an RPG (non magic) to succeed, the combat system has to be flawless and non repetitive. The use of fantasy elements (healers, spells, enchantmwents) in most RPGs, "break" the monotony of combat and upgrading items, as well as adding "wow" factor to battle scenes. Now, if this game comes up and there is some combo of fencing manouvers that can defeat 80% of encounters and nothing else, i don't think it will make a huge success.
Click to expand...

Mount&Blade is a graphically mediocre game with no magic that successfully uses pure weapon combat.
 
Faethon said:
IMHO, it is easy to wow people with graphics. But for such an RPG (non magic) to succeed, the combat system has to be flawless and non repetitive. The use of fantasy elements (healers, spells, enchantmwents) in most RPGs, "break" the monotony of combat and upgrading items, as well as adding "wow" factor to battle scenes. Now, if this game comes up and there is some combo of fencing manouvers that can defeat 80% of encounters and nothing else, i don't think it will make a huge success.
Click to expand...

There has never been a game that has did melee combat well in terms of historical fighting with all the things they did back then.

The best melee combat system to date imo was actually from an action adventure game called SEverance: Blade of darkness and while the game itself had fantasy elements to it (creatures/enemies, etc) the combat itself was firmly rooted in using melee weapons or bows and things.

To this day it still has the best most in-depth melee combat system of any game.

What made it work so well is that they put just as much an emphasis on defense as well as offense, you had to read enemies, you had to block or dodge attacks, you couldn't "spam" moves over and over.

On top of this it had an entire combo system (similar to fighting games) where EACH weapon had its on movelist and combo's to learn.

It made Dark Souls combat look like child's play in terms of depth.

You can see some combat here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tbcZvGSgVk

It is a bit of an older game and shows its age, rough animations, etc.

However it isn't a historical combat system and the moves and things aren't realistic.

If this game really wants to nail combat it needs to have depth. Everything from half swording, stances (stances were one of the core vital elements to fighting in the middle ages and yet almost any game with mele combat flat out IGNORES them) and a core focus on defense just as much as offense.

Melee combat in the middle ages is nothing like what's ever been done in a game nor even a movie (closest one was The Duelists movie from Ridley Scott, but that was later on then the 1400s).

They even used quite a bit of wrestling in fighting styles, tripping people, disarming the other guy, groin hits, all kinds of techniques that were taught by combat instructors.

Just look at some historical fighting manuals, Hans Talhoffer is one of the more well known instructor's that you can easily find his manuals on the web.
 
Dark Souls weapons have their own movesets, but it isn't as free-form as Severance. It makes me a bit sad that no melee based action game has done better than Severance yet.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Mount&Blade is a graphically mediocre game with no magic that successfully uses pure weapon combat.
Click to expand...

I have heard tell of this "severance" but M&B has set the standard for competitive PvP melee mechanics in the modern era...a "counterstrike of the sword" if you will
 
jojo69 said:
I have heard tell of this "severance" but M&B has set the standard for competitive PvP melee mechanics in the modern era...a "counterstrike of the sword" if you will
Click to expand...

The thing about mount and blade is that it does archery/mounted combat well but it fails hard in melee combat.


It falls into the same pitfalls that older systems such as those found in Jedi Knight/Rune, etc did where your combat has 0 relation to your feet/lower body.

It makes combat feel disconnected and it looks sloppy/terrible, I mean just watch someone fighting in mount and blade, generally you'll just see them strafing back and fourth wildly swinging their swords around (same thing in Chivalry/WAr of the Roses mainly).

Your feet play a huge role in real combat, how you move your feet, what stance you are holding your weapon, it should all be connected but in these games it isn't.

In Severance this wasn't the case because once you attack, the animation played and your feet moved how they should in relation to the combat, there was no strafing "while swinging wildly" in that game.

Not to mention the whole 4-direction focused combat is a bit like playing dice, it relies more on luck then it does on real skill, reading a move. GEnerally in combat it feels more like "turn" based combat, where one guy swings, the other either blocks it or gets hit, then he takes his turn.
 
According to latest Eurogamer report all is good. They found private investor ready to give them money. The only demand he had was to prove that this game will be interesting for fans. They put it on kickstarter, got about 300,000 pounds, and that was enough to secure investor. They will be self publishing the stuff.

Also the combat and whole living world is getting more and more interesting. If it works ;) "Swords don't slice through people as if they were ghosts - they crash as physical objects into each other or off armour, and can be wielded with freedom, and you have up to 18 choices of how and where to hit at any one moment, depending on your weapon. You can build combos by parrying at the correct moment and slowing time, then choosing between button prompts appearing on the screen. In action it's fluid, graceful and looks like fun. "It took us more than a year to find out how to do it," Vavra says. "It's something that wasn't possible on current [older] generation [machines] - it's very very hard to develop."

There are stats, and you will also get tired, hungry and injured. Food can even go bad if kept in your inventory for too long. You'll also gain perks that, for instance, boost your strength with an axe if you're injured, or perhaps you'll choose to be alcohol-resistant for some reason instead. It's quite a lot like Fallout: New Vegas, Vavra summarises.

Characters have a dizzying 20 equipment slots spread across four layers of clothing. Perhaps you'd like a gambeson as your first layer and then chainmail over the top, and then platemail over the top of that. Armours all have strengths and weaknesses - historically correct strengths and weaknesses - so the strongest outfit will probably be a combination of many. Of course you can also piece together non-combat outfits to "impress people and have a better ability to convince them of something". Go on, show a bit of flesh."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-21-i-do-care-for-a-next-gen-medieval-rpg-with-no-fantasy
 
Stiler said:
The thing about mount and blade is that it does archery/mounted combat well but it fails hard in melee combat.


It falls into the same pitfalls that older systems such as those found in Jedi Knight/Rune, etc did where your combat has 0 relation to your feet/lower body.

It makes combat feel disconnected and it looks sloppy/terrible, I mean just watch someone fighting in mount and blade, generally you'll just see them strafing back and fourth wildly swinging their swords around (same thing in Chivalry/WAr of the Roses mainly).

Your feet play a huge role in real combat, how you move your feet, what stance you are holding your weapon, it should all be connected but in these games it isn't.

In Severance this wasn't the case because once you attack, the animation played and your feet moved how they should in relation to the combat, there was no strafing "while swinging wildly" in that game.

Not to mention the whole 4-direction focused combat is a bit like playing dice, it relies more on luck then it does on real skill, reading a move. GEnerally in combat it feels more like "turn" based combat, where one guy swings, the other either blocks it or gets hit, then he takes his turn.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue with you, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I am not convinced that you have run up against a really good chamber blocker in M&B either
 
Bam, it has crossed its goal.

They said tomorrow they will post the stretch goals and also they have something special planned for ht eend of hte campaign.
 
MorgothPl said:
According to latest Eurogamer report all is good. They found private investor ready to give them money. The only demand he had was to prove that this game will be interesting for fans. They put it on kickstarter, got about 300,000 pounds, and that was enough to secure investor. They will be self publishing the stuff.

Also the combat and whole living world is getting more and more interesting. If it works ;) "Swords don't slice through people as if they were ghosts - they crash as physical objects into each other or off armour, and can be wielded with freedom, and you have up to 18 choices of how and where to hit at any one moment, depending on your weapon. You can build combos by parrying at the correct moment and slowing time, then choosing between button prompts appearing on the screen. In action it's fluid, graceful and looks like fun. "It took us more than a year to find out how to do it," Vavra says. "It's something that wasn't possible on current [older] generation [machines] - it's very very hard to develop."

There are stats, and you will also get tired, hungry and injured. Food can even go bad if kept in your inventory for too long. You'll also gain perks that, for instance, boost your strength with an axe if you're injured, or perhaps you'll choose to be alcohol-resistant for some reason instead. It's quite a lot like Fallout: New Vegas, Vavra summarises.

Characters have a dizzying 20 equipment slots spread across four layers of clothing. Perhaps you'd like a gambeson as your first layer and then chainmail over the top, and then platemail over the top of that. Armours all have strengths and weaknesses - historically correct strengths and weaknesses - so the strongest outfit will probably be a combination of many. Of course you can also piece together non-combat outfits to "impress people and have a better ability to convince them of something". Go on, show a bit of flesh."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-21-i-do-care-for-a-next-gen-medieval-rpg-with-no-fantasy
Click to expand...

Sounds cool for the most part. I just hope that the combat doesn't feel like QTE's, which it kinda sounds like from the description.
 
chockomonkey said:
Sounds cool for the most part. I just hope that the combat doesn't feel like QTE's, which it kinda sounds like from the description.
Click to expand...

I suspect it's designed more as a way to fluidly transition between historically accurate attacks/stances, kinda like what Clang was going for.
 
This looks interesting. I can't stand fantasy games but will be interested to see how this pans out. Hopefully the combat will be well development, which I imagine can be difficult in a video game.
 
The game and video looks so well done, I'm kinda surprise it hasn't already passed 1,000,000 pounds. Usually KS's at this level of polish do very well.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
That's true, but I'm happy that they've seen this level of success already.

They just posted this video, very interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAbHmE73p7o
Click to expand...

Wooowee, I'm even more excited now. I hope this game is great and gets awesome press. Imagine if this started to change the direction of games? There's nothing main stream that's like it other than the Assassin's Creed Series (at least I don't think)
 
Stiler said:
Amazing new video update detailing combat, last 12 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnKbKkhHXrQ&feature=em-uploademail

Still very much a work in progress.

However for this early on it is looking good and interesting.

I just hope they have stances and some more grappling moves to do, as that made up a lot of the real combat of the time period.
Click to expand...

WOW!

I have not seen this much thought go into a game before (in this genre). Granted, I haven't watched many development videos but it just seems like it's going to be awesome.
 
This game plus star citizen.... oh my.. hopefully they come out really good and shock some life in PC gaming community. DIE CONSOLE DIE! :D
 
New video update about the world and npc (both people and wildlife).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA8rTyIO0xE&feature=em-uploademail

Sounds great.

NPC's will do things and react to the player.

No giant "?" marks over heads, if you have to say deliver a letter to a blacksmith you will hav eto find him at his blacksmith shop in the day or go to his house at night if it's late (and wake him, which will not make him that pleased with you).

NPC's will have hobbies and likes/dislikes. They can fish, farm, all the crafters play the same "minigames" the player does to craft goods.

Wildlife will hunt, sleep, be passive toward the player or aggressive, etc.
 
Looks good so far. I want to see a company come out and make a multiplayer(not MMO) open world RPG where we can host our own persistent servers. I've been wanting this since I started playing elder scrolls series.
 
Stiler said:
New video update about the world and npc (both people and wildlife).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA8rTyIO0xE&feature=em-uploademail

Sounds great.

NPC's will do things and react to the player.

No giant "?" marks over heads, if you have to say deliver a letter to a blacksmith you will hav eto find him at his blacksmith shop in the day or go to his house at night if it's late (and wake him, which will not make him that pleased with you).

NPC's will have hobbies and likes/dislikes. They can fish, farm, all the crafters play the same "minigames" the player does to craft goods.

Wildlife will hunt, sleep, be passive toward the player or aggressive, etc.
Click to expand...

Wow that sounds great. I'll bet there's not going to be a big arrow telling you which way to walk either =P

I hope it also has a good map and quest log. I miss the days of RPG's where you had to cross-reference locations and people, dig into history books, etc to find locations and complete quests. Made the world feel so much more real.
 
Sabotage23 said:
This game plus star citizen.... oh my.. hopefully they come out really good and shock some life in PC gaming community. DIE CONSOLE DIE! :D
Click to expand...

Eh, it's going to be out on PS4/XBone anyway.

I think the main consequence of that so far is it looks like controller might be their preferred input method based on the videos I've seen, which I don't really mind. We'll see.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top