8-Year-Old Kills Caregiver After Playing Grand Theft Auto IV

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
75,400
Authorities have reported that an 8-year-old boy picked up a gun and shot and killed his elderly caretaker in the head after playing a game of Grand Theft Auto lV on his PlayStation 3. The underage child will not be charged in the killing.

The sheriff's department press release implies the child's activities in a violent virtual world may have led to the killing.
 
So, first the kid was playing a game rated for way above his age, and he had access to a gun? I think something played a far larger role in this than the game itself ;)
 
That said, the kid was 8. At that age, having access to a gun is dangerous under any circumstance.
 
Many factors involved. For once, it may be true that the game was a contributing factor. You don't let an 8 year old play that kind of game and you don't leave a gun lying around.... Clearly nobody educated the child about the difference between games and reality either.
 
Many factors involved. For once, it may be true that the game was a contributing factor. You don't let an 8 year old play that kind of game and you don't leave a gun lying around.... Clearly nobody educated the child about the difference between games and reality either.

As much as I hate to admit, you're right. I have to reluctantly agree that, for once, the game may have been a contributing factor. At that age the kid should not have been around a loaded firearm, and he should not have been playing that game. Two terrible things that culminated in an even far more terrible event.
 
As much as I hate to admit, you're right. I have to reluctantly agree that, for once, the game may have been a contributing factor. At that age the kid should not have been around a loaded firearm, and he should not have been playing that game. Two terrible things that culminated in an even far more terrible event.

Playing the game may have been a contributing factor, but the greatest contributing factor was allowing an 8 year old to have access to a firearm. No gun, no murder. Obviously this kid and the caretaker had issues.
 
I have no issue with responsible gun ownership.

Ms Smothers was obviously not a responsible gun owner if an 8 year old had access to it.

Ms Smothers and the parents were negligent for allowing the child to play a game with a mature rating.

Considering these facts one can assume there are probably other areas lacking in the childs upbringing and see how a tragedy like this can happen.
 
This line in the article bothered me

"Studies by reputable academic and medical sources have come to a variety of conclusions over the years. The Obama administration called for more research into the connection following the Sandy Hook shooting."

I have looked into it quite a bit, and haven't seen reputable research of any decent amount come out that points to a causal link between video games and violence, while the implication in the quote is that it's a 50 50 chance that there is a causal relationship.



Also, and this is outside the rhelm of video games, but any parent who owns a firearm has an obligation to train and educate their children regarding said firearm. My children started with BB guns and even before then learned that pointing a gun at a person isn't ever okay. As they grow older the message may shift to self defense situations, but at 8 all they need to know is never ever point any kind of gun at a person.
 
How can you be OK with a kid playing GTA4? I mean even if you are in the house you should know because ther word Fuck is used no less than 4 times a damn minute.
 
Children are easily impressionable, yeah no duh, which is why there games have ratings, which is why movies have ratings, maybe some good parenting would have worked here.

Gun lying around for kid to grab, apparently the old lady who got shot was the gun owner, something about responsibility here but old lady got her lesson.

Not surprising this is being deflected away from gun ownership and onto video games, I mean the NRA did some sand the floor type shit that would make Mr. Miagi proud to lay any blame away from guns.

Lets chalk this up for personal responsibility and parenting failure. Not the video games fault that parents don't think their kids should have restrictions, I've played GTA4 for many MANY hours and haven't once had the desire to shoot someone in the back of the head however I'm not 8. Not the gun maker's fault either, although Louisiana doubt they'd go in that direction anyways.
 
This line in the article bothered me

"Studies by reputable academic and medical sources have come to a variety of conclusions over the years. The Obama administration called for more research into the connection following the Sandy Hook shooting."

I have looked into it quite a bit, and haven't seen reputable research of any decent amount come out that points to a causal link between video games and violence, while the implication in the quote is that it's a 50 50 chance that there is a causal relationship.



Also, and this is outside the rhelm of video games, but any parent who owns a firearm has an obligation to train and educate their children regarding said firearm. My children started with BB guns and even before then learned that pointing a gun at a person isn't ever okay. As they grow older the message may shift to self defense situations, but at 8 all they need to know is never ever point any kind of gun at a person.
I have seen reputable publications with strong links to aggression for shooters but aggression doesn't lead to physical violence in all individuals. With an 8 year old you may be closer to emulation, if he views the character in the video game as an idol in some way emulation is quite common between any form of media.
If you own a gun in your house you better teach your children the danger of them even take them to a shooting range if they are big enough to hold the gun well and tech them the proper handling of the gun, or have someone else at the gun range tech them who is qualified. Plus lock it up in a safe not just high up in a box you think they don't know about.
 
Guns, like games, are blameless objects. How they are used, and by whom is the issue. Loaded gun in reach of an eight year old whose only education regarding guns is GTA IV? Yeah, bad idea

It is not the game, it is not the guns, it is the lack of proper education, upbringing, and supervision.
 
So, first the kid was playing a game rated for way above his age, and he had access to a gun? I think something played a far larger role in this than the game itself ;)

Very much likely the kid has mental issues. Lack of empathy should now be a new disorder.
 
Children are easily impressionable, yeah no duh, which is why there games have ratings, which is why movies have ratings, maybe some good parenting would have worked here.

Lets chalk this up for personal responsibility and parenting failure. Not the video games fault that parents don't think their kids should have restrictions, I've played GTA4 for many MANY hours and haven't once had the desire to shoot someone in the back of the head however I'm not 8. Not the gun maker's fault either, although Louisiana doubt they'd go in that direction anyways.

The problem may in fact be bad parenting all the way around, from letting the kid play the game to having a loaded gun accessible. But I think it's irresponsible to not say the game was at fault. It clearly gave the impression it was ok, after all, letting him play the game. Is like saying its ok to do the things they see and do in the game. You happen to know right from wrong and what happens when the trigger is pulled, this kid probably did not.

I just wonder when someone up there is going to pull their head out of their ass and see that in fact these games do contribute to some of the violent behavior and violence we are seeing.
 
What they don't tell you is that he also just ate macaronis and cheese after playing the game and immediately prior to shooting the old lady.

Kraft Mac and Cheese as we all know contains yellow dye 5.

What further proof do we need of cause and effect here? Yellow dye 5 clearly causes homicidal behavior... not in everyone obviously, since not everyone eating Mac and Cheese goes on a killing spree, but how many deaths are enough before we DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!?!?!

I petition that we immediately demand the government bans this additive before more people die.
 
The boy said he was playing iwth the gun and it accidentally went off.

However no one believes him, and they are trying to say GTA IV made him do it, this is pure fucking SCAPEGOATING on a subject.

Why could he have NOT been playing with the gun? A lot of kids have (Sadly) died over years because of doing this, they handle a loaded firearm and don't know whta they are doing and it goes off.

Why do the police discount this and assume he did it on purpose???

There has to be somethign they haven't said because why would you automatically dismiss what a child says and assume he intentionally murdered someone in cold blood? He'd have to be mental to do that.

I remember when I was a kid, a boy in school was picking on me and one day after shoving me into the wall a teacher saw it and the boy lied to him and said I was picking on him! I told the teacher I wasn't and a friend even backed me up. The teacher just assumed I was the "bully" (when he was, not I) and I got in trouble/scolded while he got off scott free (Until my friend that saw it stood up to him the next time).

I hope the police are searching for the truth and not trying to use video games as a scapegoat.
 
I just wonder when someone up there is going to pull their head out of their ass and see that in fact these games do contribute to some of the violent behavior and violence we are seeing.
Because they don't.

I was already a pretty good shot with my 22 LR by 8 years old, understood that guns destroy things and kill people and animals, and had never been in a fight in my life until age 15.

If something is going to have a cause and effect, then the results have to be consistent, and clearly they are not.

Detectives have shown in this case that it was NOT an accident and was a deliberate murder, and an 8 year old is old enough to understand that picking up a gun and shooting someone in the back of the head will kill them.

And if you're going to blame something, who is to say its a video game and not the glamorization of being a violent thug in much of black pop culture? And $20 says the parents weren't in the trailer because its another single black mother that was out working and so grandma who is too old to care and invest the energy has to raise the child which she does by just turning on the TV. If you're wondering about the statistic, currently 72% of African-American children are born out of wedlock.

Want to point the finger at something? How about that statistic. After all, I bet you that the violent crime rate among asian kids raised in wedlock by their two biological parents that play violent video games is pretty damn low.
 
These games should have been banned years ago along with the idea of letting just about anyone own a gun. People are obviously not responsible enough to own either. In fact, children should be banned too since no one seems to have any idea how to keep them from doing this sort of thing.
 
Why do the police discount this and assume he did it on purpose???
They don't assume anything, they investigated and that is their initial finding.
In a release from the Sheriff's Office, it says although the child initially told investigators that he accidentally shot Smothers while playing with a firearm, the investigation has led them to believe the child intentionally shot her. Smothers was shot in the back of the head while she was in the living room watching television.
It'd be pretty easy to sit the kid down and make him play back exactly what occurred prior to the gun "going off" and figure out of it was an accident or not.

If for example the investigation shows that the gun was raised up and pointed at the back of her head and trigger pulled with a perfectly clean shot, that's not an accident, especially if they find the boy lied about the circumstances.
 
So, an eight year old which is unable to separate reality from fantasy was allowed access to violent media meant for adult minds and a firearm.

Idiots.
 
Because they don't.

I'll claim bullshit on that statement.

I was already a pretty good shot with my 22 LR by 8 years old, understood that guns destroy things and kill people and animals, and had never been in a fight in my life until age 15.

Being a good shot, understanding right from wrong, having parents teach you these things is different from those who don't. I bet you were not allowed to play GTA style games at that age either, making the comparison all that much more invalid. Not everyone has the same childhood upbringing, again making it more invalid.

If something is going to have a cause and effect, then the results have to be consistent, and clearly they are not.

No, not really. You have to study it and determine what it is. And it doesn't have to be consistent as there are multiple causes in play. That would be the word "contributing."

Detectives have shown in this case that it was NOT an accident and was a deliberate murder, and an 8 year old is old enough to understand that picking up a gun and shooting someone in the back of the head will kill them. :rolleyes:

Good charge the shit as an adult and take the rating off the game... As all 8 year olds should be that responsible... :rolleyes:

And if you're going to blame something, who is to say its a video game and not the glamorization of being a violent thug in much of black pop culture? And $20 says the parents weren't in the trailer because its another single black mother that was out working and so grandma who is too old to care and invest the energy has to raise the child which she does by just turning on the TV. If you're wondering about the statistic, currently 72% of African-American children are born out of wedlock.

I already blame those things as contributors.

Want to point the finger at something? How about that statistic. After all, I bet you that the violent crime rate among asian kids raised in wedlock by their two biological parents that play violent video games is pretty damn low.

Still waiting for whatever statistic your wanting to show.
 
Then people get stuck in the trap the media wants you to get stuck in.

Regardless of what are/are not the contributing factors and how much they contribute, simply isolating one of the possible contributing factors and getting everyone to focus on that is the issue.
 
Yeah, not really buying the whole issue as reported. Too many factors and too mcuh bias already geared toward 'the cause' being a video game the kid should not have been playing to start with.

Why did grandma have the gun where the kid could find it? Why did she let him play the game to start with? Maybe the kid was mentally disturbed? Was grandma raising the kids because the parents were drug addicts that smoked crack while pregnant, thereby causing issues with the kids development?

Just seems like a little 'score one for the anti-game guys and close the case' going on here.
 
They don't assume anything, they investigated and that is their initial finding.

It'd be pretty easy to sit the kid down and make him play back exactly what occurred prior to the gun "going off" and figure out of it was an accident or not.

If for example the investigation shows that the gun was raised up and pointed at the back of her head and trigger pulled with a perfectly clean shot, that's not an accident, especially if they find the boy lied about the circumstances.

You have never dealt with kids in troube have you? Ther is no 'play back' button. Kids do not recall 'what happenned' with any degree of accuracy, especially if it's something they did themselves. You will hear a million things, they are pretty adept at diverserting the truth.
 
The boy said he was playing iwth the gun and it accidentally went off.

However no one believes him, and they are trying to say GTA IV made him do it, this is pure fucking SCAPEGOATING on a subject.

Why could he have NOT been playing with the gun? A lot of kids have (Sadly) died over years because of doing this, they handle a loaded firearm and don't know whta they are doing and it goes off.

Why do the police discount this and assume he did it on purpose???

There has to be somethign they haven't said because why would you automatically dismiss what a child says and assume he intentionally murdered someone in cold blood? He'd have to be mental to do that.

I remember when I was a kid, a boy in school was picking on me and one day after shoving me into the wall a teacher saw it and the boy lied to him and said I was picking on him! I told the teacher I wasn't and a friend even backed me up. The teacher just assumed I was the "bully" (when he was, not I) and I got in trouble/scolded while he got off scott free (Until my friend that saw it stood up to him the next time).

I hope the police are searching for the truth and not trying to use video games as a scapegoat.

I tend to agree with you here, it's hard to get a good clean back of the head shot when you are trying on purpose, it mostly involves luck. It was totally accidental or he would have missed.
 
Being a good shot, understanding right from wrong, having parents teach you these things is different from those who don't.
Thank you! That is exactly my point. I had a mom and dad at home that paid attention to me and taught me proper values. And while GTA style games hadn't been invented yet, I wasted a crapton of quarters on Street Fighter and loved Mortal Kombat. I also snuck a peak at Freddy Krueger movies which scared the crap out of me due to my brother who is ten years older. But just as America didn't suddenly have a rash of cannibalism problems after releasing "Silence of the Lambs" in theaters, its ridiculous to use a video game as a scape goat for this, as no normal child would EVER even contemplate shooting an old lady in the back of the head after playing.
No, not really. You have to study it and determine what it is.
How many times? Do you have any idea how many millions upon millions of dollars we have spent investigating this crap ad nauseum? These people that we claim are "influenced" are already screwed up for other reasons, as is evidenced by the fact that normal people aren't affected by games or movies.
Good charge the shit as an adult and take the rating off the game... As all 8 year olds should be that responsible... :rolleyes:
Nice straw man argument, as I never said any such thing. I was referring to the "accident" part of the claim. An 8-year old is intelligent enough to understand that shooting someone in the back of the head kills them. A much younger child or mentally retarded person for example may not understand the concept. That doesn't mean I'd try an 8 year old as an adult... where the heck did that come from?
 
You have never dealt with kids in troube have you? Ther is no 'play back' button. Kids do not recall 'what happenned' with any degree of accuracy, especially if it's something they did themselves. You will hear a million things, they are pretty adept at diverserting the truth.
I will defer to your extensive knowledge in blood spatter analysis, forensics, bullet trajectory, and so forth, especially in this particular case where you spent so much time at the scene of the crime.

Oh wait, actually on second thought I was thinking of the investigators that came to the conclusion and made the statement that they don't believe it was an accident after reviewing the evidence and interviewing the witness. ;)
 
I tend to agree with you here, it's hard to get a good clean back of the head shot when you are trying on purpose, it mostly involves luck. It was totally accidental or he would have missed.

I'm not saying it wasn't possible he did it on purpose, I'm just saying it may have been an accident, from what they say they may have had more info they aren't talking about.

IE - if the gun was shot at close range to her head then yeah something is fishy, but if it was done from a long distance, he may have very well been fooling around with the gun and just had it pointed in that direction and the gun fired and that's where it (sadly) went.

Many kids over the years have played with guns that weren't locked up (where they should be, with no key reachable by children) and killed their friends or themselves because they don't know how to properly handle the gun.
 
Thank you! That is exactly my point. I had a mom and dad at home that paid attention to me and taught me proper values. And while GTA style games hadn't been invented yet, I wasted a crapton of quarters on Street Fighter and loved Mortal Kombat. I also snuck a peak at Freddy Krueger movies which scared the crap out of me due to my brother who is ten years older. But just as America didn't suddenly have a rash of cannibalism problems after releasing "Silence of the Lambs" in theaters, its ridiculous to use a video game as a scape goat for this, as no normal child would EVER even contemplate shooting an old lady in the back of the head after playing.

And my point is without that adult help then it is easy to have a child influenced and actually do these kind of things without really understanding right or wrong , or what happens when a trigger is pulled. I am not solely blaming the video game, only saying it is a contributor.

How many times? Do you have any idea how many millions upon millions of dollars we have spent investigating this crap ad nauseum? These people that we claim are "influenced" are already screwed up for other reasons, as is evidenced by the fact that normal people aren't affected by games or movies.

You can spend millions and billions and still be wrong. No study has ever been wrong before? No conclusion has ever been off before? We have never needed to revisit a problem because it keeps happening before?

Nice straw man argument, as I never said any such thing. I was referring to the "accident" part of the claim. An 8-year old is intelligent enough to understand that shooting someone in the back of the head kills them. A much younger child or mentally retarded person for example may not understand the concept. That doesn't mean I'd try an 8 year old as an adult... where the heck did that come from?

If your argument is he knew right from wrong, and that at his age, based on the upbringing you had he should be able to as well... Then please lets throw away all the charged as a juvenile designators and just charge everyone the same. No situation is the same and rationalizing everyone should know based on what you did as child..... Well... Doesn't hold much weight for me either.
 
Because they don't.

I was already a pretty good shot with my 22 LR by 8 years old, understood that guns destroy things and kill people and animals, and had never been in a fight in my life until age 15.

If something is going to have a cause and effect, then the results have to be consistent, and clearly they are not.

Detectives have shown in this case that it was NOT an accident and was a deliberate murder, and an 8 year old is old enough to understand that picking up a gun and shooting someone in the back of the head will kill them.

And if you're going to blame something, who is to say its a video game and not the glamorization of being a violent thug in much of black pop culture? And $20 says the parents weren't in the trailer because its another single black mother that was out working and so grandma who is too old to care and invest the energy has to raise the child which she does by just turning on the TV. If you're wondering about the statistic, currently 72% of African-American children are born out of wedlock.

Want to point the finger at something? How about that statistic. After all, I bet you that the violent crime rate among asian kids raised in wedlock by their two biological parents that play violent video games is pretty damn low.

wile im with you on most of this RTFA
kid was white and has 2 parents
 
You can spend millions and billions and still be wrong. No study has ever been wrong before? No conclusion has ever been off before? We have never needed to revisit a problem because it keeps happening before?
As Einstein once said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

And we already know what the problem is, young mothers need to close their legs and stop having babies at a young age and from multiple men out of wedlock and live on government assistance when they couldn't afford the child in the first place.

We have never had and will never have violent crime rate issues in two parent stable households with more than enough resources (in both time and money) to care for a child. The problem is that each generation there are less babies from these successful people, and more babies from the broken homes, and the apple rarely falls far from the tree. Its an unfunny version of the comedy movie Idiocracy.
 
wile im with you on most of this RTFA
kid was white and has 2 parents
RTFA? What FA are you FN reading? :p My $20 bet (a guess) was based on watching the actual broadcast, where it was a predominantly black trailer park in Louisiana.
 
In any case though, lets say that the kid instead had access to beer and got really drunk, at which point he really wouldn't be in his right mind to think about any action he took.

Would we then talk about how bad alcohol is and get it banned because an 8-year old out of the millions in the country got drunk? Of course not, you'd ignore the inanimate object which is wonderful used responsibly by adults and instead look at the PARENTS that are responsible for the child.

This game is not marketed towards children, not sold to children, and has warning labels all over it as to its age appropriateness.
 
Kids parents are idiots, skimming through the article I saw the words "mobile home park" and that usually tells me...white trash about 98% of the time
 
Back
Top