Seiki SE50UY04 3840x2160 50" TV ($1300)

Here is a picture of my dad's triple monitor setup at work. He got his seiki 39 inch the same day I did.

He has the 39 inch seiki with the dell 3007-WFP on top of it and a dell 2407-WFP to the right.



Of course he has absolutely no need for 120Hz. So far he is very happy with it as it replaced a VP2290b. He was starting to have issues reading it due to how far back he sits and that the vp2290b was over 200 PPI. He runs windows at default font settings but even with reading glasses it was starting to give him trouble. He is 55 years old.
 
I can confirm that 120hz is frame skipping - I used the RefreshRateMultitool and only every other box would get lit. However I think the scaling options have improved from the 50 inch as it looks like they added a dot-by-dot and just scan option.
 
By the way, what are the settings you guys are using. Out of the box it was oversaturated etc. as if using a wide gamut monitor. My settings:

Contrast 50
Brightness 50
Color 35
Sharpness 0
Color Temp: Normal

Service menu "others" settings:
Backlight: 60
Color temp. for Normal:
Gain R/G/B: 100
Offset R/G/B: 510/512/512
 
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houkouonchi said:
Very disappointing new (for me). Although the 39 inch model accepts 120 and 240Hz modes just like the 50 inch unlike the 50 inch I found that at 1920x1080 @120hz and 1280x720@240Hz the panel is only updating at 60 Hz where as the 50 inch updates at 120Hz at both of those modes. Really hoping that a firmware update fixes this as not being able to do 120Hz natively is a big disappointment for me. Due to this it seemed like quite a bit more input lag due to the fact that frames are getting dropped.
Click to expand...

What did you use to test it's native refresh rate?
 
mannequinsdenial said:
What did you use to test it's native refresh rate?
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I believe houkouonchi is using Linux, so can't use Refresh Rate Multitool. However, for Windows and Mac users, the web-based TestUFO's Frame Skipping Check is the easiest way to test for frame skipping:

www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

For accurate "perfect-VSYNC" frame skipping checks up to 240Hz, use only Chrome (chrome://gpu enabled) or Opera 15+. Internet Explorer 10 can do accurate frame skipping checks up to about 105Hz. FireFox 24+ pre-beta does great frame skipping checks at 60Hz, but starts to degrade as you go higher. Quit all applications, disable tools that accesses disk, and give 100% CPU to the webbrowser. Check your webbrowser's VSYNC support. Modern web browsers have VSYNC under Windows and Mac, but unfortunately not on Linux or Android systems (yet). You do not need a high speed camera; it works with a standard photographic camera set to about a 1/4th to 1/10th second shutter speed. It's very easy to tell if a frame has been skipped, if you see gaps in the resulting photograph. Even an iPhone camera works too.
 
Does anyone know how heavy the monitor without the stand is? I'd like to mount it on an ergotron mount (I have an MX and an LX) if I get it. Thanks!
 
Not sure if the ergotron is going to support the weight. The vesa holes are 200x200.
 
I should clarify I was asking about the 39 inch. It should be at least light enough for the MX since it's LED and those tend to be much lighter than similarly sized CCFL
 
Yes, I think the 39" is still too heavy for the arm, you can try though if you have a 200x200 adapter, I don't think the arm comes with one - I have the HP branded one.

Lag at 1080p is pretty bad but I guess to be expected.
IMG_0253.JPG
 
HP branded one is the LX. I have that as well as an MX. The MX supports up to 30 pounds.
That's disappointing about the lag. Does it affect non-FPS games a lot?
 
Well I'm mostly running it at 4K, 30hz. Lag is pretty bad here too, I end up undershooting my mouse pointer a lot and its quite annoying. I'm hoping that a proper 120hz mode is introduced in a firmware update, but then its just a glorified 1080P monitor and I already have a catleap that does 120hz at 2560x1440. So probably I will only use this monitor for productivity and office work.
 
alamone said:
Well I'm mostly running it at 4K, 30hz. Lag is pretty bad here too, I end up undershooting my mouse pointer a lot and its quite annoying. I'm hoping that a proper 120hz mode is introduced in a firmware update, but then its just a glorified 1080P monitor and I already have a catleap that does 120hz at 2560x1440. So probably I will only use this monitor for productivity and office work.
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Also, what's the test setup?
What video card are you using?
Does the INFO on the monitor saying 1080p when you test?
(I have some programs that when I run at 1080p, the INFO on the TV says still says 3840x2160@30Hz. I think the video card is scaling it from 1080p to 4k.)

If you can, test the lag at 4k with VSYNC on. I'd expect it to be much higher than that.

What happens when you turn VSYNC off at 1080p? I'm wondering, based on your measurement device, does it cause the lag to measure erratically?

*UPDATE*: I read up on the Leo Bodnar's measurement tool, and realized it doesn't interface with the computer at all.
It measures just the delay of the physical connection. This is good from a monitor perspective.
For my setup, I still believe the AMD drivers are to blame for the horrendous lag at 4k. Not sure there is a good way to measure that other than with a high speed camera.
 
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disolitude said:
It appears that the 39 inch model runs 1080p@120hz just like the 50 inch brother.

Very detailed review below:
http://www.terracode.com/Seiki_SE39UY04_review/Seiki_SE39UY04_review_P1.html
Click to expand...

I already emailed the guy who wrote that review. Its a little obvious talking to him that he doesn't really know what he is talking about when it comes to LCD refresh and actually testing them.

When I did my original testing I only did non 4k modes for a minute or two to verify the monitor accepted the signal and I assumed it was the same as the 50 inch. As soon as I actually tried playing a game it was very obvious that it was not doing 120Hz and using the refresh rate multi-tool I have found it is doing 60Hz as it is skipping every other box pretty consistently.

Basically as long as the OSD is saying its 120Hz he thinks it *is* 120Hz when that is not a safe assumption. I asked him to update his review as the display doesn't actually display 120Hz and even linked him to the tool to prove that but he is still saying it does 120Hz... /facepalm
 
houkouonchi said:
I already emailed the guy who wrote that review. Its a little obvious talking to him that he doesn't really know what he is talking about when it comes to LCD refresh and actually testing them.

When I did my original testing I only did non 4k modes for a minute or two to verify the monitor accepted the signal and I assumed it was the same as the 50 inch. As soon as I actually tried playing a game it was very obvious that it was not doing 120Hz and using the refresh rate multi-tool I have found it is doing 60Hz as it is skipping every other box pretty consistently.

Basically as long as the OSD is saying its 120Hz he thinks it *is* 120Hz when that is not a safe assumption. I asked him to update his review as the display doesn't actually display 120Hz and even linked him to the tool to prove that but he is still saying it does 120Hz... /facepalm
Click to expand...

Wow, thats just strange... Here we have a TV that allows 120hz input and has a 120 hz pannel but something breaks in the process and it only refreshes @60. Sounds like a firmware issue.

To be honest I wish I could test one my self in Canada before buying it. As a user of Nvidia 120 hz 3D vision monitors for a few years I can easily spot when something is refreshing 120 vs 60 by just dragging a the mouse or a browser window around... Sadly no one picked up the 39 inch model in Canada.
 
houkouonchi said:
I already emailed the guy who wrote that review. Its a little obvious talking to him that he doesn't really know what he is talking about when it comes to LCD refresh and actually testing them.

When I did my original testing I only did non 4k modes for a minute or two to verify the monitor accepted the signal and I assumed it was the same as the 50 inch. As soon as I actually tried playing a game it was very obvious that it was not doing 120Hz and using the refresh rate multi-tool I have found it is doing 60Hz as it is skipping every other box pretty consistently.

Basically as long as the OSD is saying its 120Hz he thinks it *is* 120Hz when that is not a safe assumption. I asked him to update his review as the display doesn't actually display 120Hz and even linked him to the tool to prove that but he is still saying it does 120Hz... /facepalm
Click to expand...

I ran the UFO tests and updated the review last night (no facepalm necessary). UFO tests show 105FPS. Not sure how accurate it is. I was unable to download the tool you used (I sent you an e-mail to verify the link... no reply), but ended up using the tool I've used before (BlurBusters). You said you are running the RefreshRate tool on a Mac. If this is a Windows app, are you running it via VMware? If so, the fusion drivers may not support over 60Hz.
 
If you read my post I said a macbook pro running windows. Anyway that UFO test you linked to is worthless because FPS != Hz. atleast from your screenshot. If anything it would be this page:

http://testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

But really just use the actual tool instead?

First and foremost I could easily tell without the refresh rate multitool. I just used that to verify its 60Hz and not something in between.This is really obvious by just running any game that can actually do 120 FPS as it is not smooth like it should be.

Have you ever used a 100Hz+ display before?
 
houkouonchi said:
If you read my post I said a macbook pro running windows. Anyway that UFO test you linked to is worthless because FPS != Hz. atleast from your screenshot. If anything it would be this page:
Click to expand...
In case you aren't aware, I should note that I am the creator of TestUFO motion tests, it only started public beta on July 15th. (Bug reports go to me at mark[at]blurbusters.com). This motion test has some great reviews by 120Hz Windows users (since they are typically running high-end GPU's that have absolutely no problems with VSYNC in Chrome). Again, it is still a beta test, being the world's first VSYNC-accurate web-based motion test website. Just as PixPerAn was popular at one time, it is a very old tool from year 2001, and such free tools are of great interest to testers such as TFTCentral and PCmonitors.info and others.

terracode said:
You said you are running the RefreshRate tool on a Mac. If this is a Windows app, are you running it via VMware? If so, the fusion drivers may not support over 60Hz.
Click to expand...
VMWARE and Parallels do not support accurate VSYNC with their web browsers.

Eventually in 5 years we can say "Just run a web browser", but at the moment, there are still lots of gotchas for browser-based VSYNC support that causes many bugs (e.g. web browsers running under virtual machines are playing to a virtualized vsync that has no resemblance to the real hardware blanking intervals). For accurate tests, the pre-requisites are rather stringent at this time, since this is a very early, beta web-based motion test. Web logfiles show that only 70% of users can reliably run TestUFO reliably in a frame-perfect manner. It is not worthless; just bleeding edge as the world's first web-based VSYNC-accurate motion test. At this time, it's the web browser's vendor that needs to add VSYNC support. VSYNC support was added to web browers only one year ago -- 2012! So JavaScript-controlled VSYNC support built into web browsers is still bleeding edge territory but will become popular eventually.

TestUFO System Requirements
(1) No virtualization.
(2) GPU accelerated.
(3) Recent browser. One of those listed at www.testufo.com/browser.html
(4) Single monitor (Chrome has a bug with animations on multimonitor; temporarily disable secondary and test frameskipping on primary)
(5) If using laptop, then plug laptop to AC outlet, and force CPU at full speed; prevent the CPU from throttling back. This caused stutters.
(6) Native Windows (Bootcamp or real PC) or native Mac (Safari, Chrome)
(7) There can be fluidity bugs due to things like SLI or system's throttling back of CPU speed during idle moments.
(8) If using Chrome, make sure everything in chrome://gpu is enabled.
(9) If using Chrome, make sure VSYNC is enabled in chrome://flags
(10) Unfortunately, Linux / VMWARE / Parallels are not suitable platforms for TestUFO at this time. Please send a bug report to the vendors.

The tests are running VSYNC-perfect in Chrome browser (everything green in chrome://gpu) on a native (non-virtualizaed) i7 CPU based windows system running on Radeon or nVidia GPU in single-monitor mode. Give browser vendors time to catch up on Linux/vmware/parallels support, please -- it's not TestUFO's fault that VSYNC isn't working under virtualization or Linux. You must use native Windows web browser or native Mac web browser; due to the browser's vendors only recent addition of VSYNC support. Can you do me a big favour and send a bug report to FireFox (bugzilla.mozilla.org), Chromium (code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/entry) to mention that VSYNC support is missing for Linux, so that we can get the browser vendors aboard to support VSYNC on Linux systems. The favour is appreciated! Even, I, myself, have done due diligence to send bug reports (e.g. My name in comments of Mozilla Bugzilla 856427, as well as the creator of Internet Explorer Bug #794072, as well as other vendor reports I've done). I'd like end users (or open source developers), to also help the standardization of VSYNC support in web browsers under Linux/virtualization, by also sending appropriate feedback reports and/or patches to the appropriate vendors.

I need to remind everyone that this is the world's first VSYNC-accurate motion test website, and it currently runs 'perfect' only on about 60-70% of systems today; this will solve itself in about five years from now, but this is still early times for browser's VSYNC abilities. So you will see the test acknowledges that the browser, too, could frameskip. At least, if there's no frame skipping seen, it means BOTH your browser & monitor, are successfully not frameskipping :)

Look at this W3C standard. www.w3.org/TR/animation-timing/.
W3C Animation Standardization said:
Note
The expectation is that the user agent will run tasks from the animation task source at at a regular interval matching the display's refresh rate. Running tasks at a lower rate can result in animations not appearing smooth.
Click to expand...
However, not all web browsers are following W3C recommendation properly.
It is only slowly now beginning to become reliable on a subset of systems (e.g. works 100% reliably on the new iPad, works almost always on recent multi-core-CPU single-monitor native Windows Geforce/Radeon systems, but apparently sadly never working properly in Linux or VMWARE/parallels, and having very buggy animation fluidity when multimonitor or multi-GPU is enabled)

Thanks for beta testing TestUFO... It seems to be very well supporting the Windows QNIX overclocking users (As they usually have Windows and usually have a powerful GPU) much better than Linux SEIKI 4K users. I wish this wasn't the case; but I do want to point out that this is bleeding edge territory of browser-based VSYNC animation support, which only began in Year 2012.
 
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ubiquityman said:
I can do a back to back test with 2 monitors tonight. I'll let you know what I find.
Click to expand...
If you use TestUFO, make sure you run one monitor at a time, it has come to my attention that Chrome has a bug that makes animations run badly on multi-monitor setups (especially when the monitors are each running a different refresh rate).
 
Mark Rejhon said:
If you use TestUFO, make sure you run one monitor at a time, it has come to my attention that Chrome has a bug that makes animations run badly on multi-monitor setups (especially when the monitors are each running a different refresh rate).
Click to expand...

If I mirror the two monitors, running both at 1080p/120Hz, would you expect that to provide valid results?
 
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ubiquityman said:
If I mirror the two monitors, running both at 1080p/120Hz, would you expect that to provide valid results?
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I'd like to know. TestUFO is a beta.
Fortunately, it's easy to just temporarily disable one monitor at a time via Control Panel, for the duration of a TestUFO analysis session.
 
Running UFO test with a 120Hz and 60Hz monitors in multi-monitor setup will only show max 60 FPS. I had to disconnect the other monitor to get numbers above 100.
 
terracode said:
Running UFO test with a 120Hz and 60Hz monitors in multi-monitor setup will only show max 60 FPS. I had to disconnect the other monitor to get numbers above 100.
Click to expand...


Its not going to be very usefull unless its getting a consistent 120 FPS. FYI the multimon refresh tool works fine on multi monitor. I actually ran it full screen on the second monitor and had to move my cursor to the first monitor in order to get it to run consistently at 120 FPS (measured using fraps).

terracode I thought I sent you this link in an email mentioning that your mis-typed link was typo'd and it just forwards to github anyway but the refresh rate multitool can be downloaded at:

https://github.com/shurcooL/RefreshRateMultitool/zipball/master
 
houkouonchi said:
Its not going to be very usefull unless its getting a consistent 120 FPS. FYI the multimon refresh tool works fine on multi monitor. I actually ran it full screen on the second monitor and had to move my cursor to the first monitor in order to get it to run consistently at 120 FPS (measured using fraps).

terracode I thought I sent you this link in an email mentioning that your mis-typed link was typo'd and it just forwards to github anyway but the refresh rate multitool can be downloaded at:

https://github.com/shurcooL/RefreshRateMultitool/zipball/master
Click to expand...

Too busy with work to do anything with it. May have time later this week or weekend.
 
Could you use this monitor comfortably at 1080p@120hz? I remember reading somewhere that scaling was an issue and you wouldn't want to use it as your primary monitor.
 
I cannot get either my desktop (Radeon 6870) or on my laptop (Radeon 7850) to output 1080p @120Hz to the Seiki 39".

I've tried CRU utility by ToastyX, but that does not seem to help.

I think what is happening is that the EDID is limiting what the computer/videocard will show as possible options.
 
houkouonchi said:
Its not going to be very usefull unless its getting a consistent 120 FPS.
Click to expand...
It is reliable in certain segments of audience. e.g. single-monitor 120Hz users, even multi-GPU. Such users are nearly always using recent GPU's and recent computers. It was observed that in this segment, 95%+ run TestUFO 120fps perfectly. Workarounds are needed for multimonitor users, though (at this time), as shown since people tend to post mainly when they have problems.

Moving on, Refresh Rate Multitool is better for a lot of things, and that is why I also link to it. TestUFO has helped quite a lot of people already.
 
DarkStar02 said:
Could you use this monitor comfortably at 1080p@120hz? I remember reading somewhere that scaling was an issue and you wouldn't want to use it as your primary monitor.
Click to expand...

The scaling doesn't bug me at all for games. The scaling is not all that great for desktop use though. its not horrible though. It would be nice if they had a simple 1 -> 4 pixel double width/height mode for people who use them as computer monitors like my IBM T221 has.
 
ubiquityman said:
I cannot get either my desktop (Radeon 6870) or on my laptop (Radeon 7850) to output 1080p @120Hz to the Seiki 39".

I've tried CRU utility by ToastyX, but that does not seem to help.

I think what is happening is that the EDID is limiting what the computer/videocard will show as possible options.
Click to expand...

Its a pain in the ass on ATI. I was able to get 120Hz @ 1080p or 30Hz @ 3840x2160 but not both working at the same time. Of course this was over DP with an active DP -> HDMI adapter. Maybe you will have better luck over HDMI directly.

You can give my inf (monitor driver) a shot. You have to install via device manager and go to monitors and click 'update driver' and chose location and uncheck show supported hardware.


http://box.houkouonchi.jp/seiki_4k_31hz_307mhz_1080p_120hz.inf
 
@houkouonchi

Thanks for the inf file. It did work. The display however skipped every other square in the test indicating only 60Hz update. My laptop display which is true 120Hz did display every square.
 
ubiquityman said:
@houkouonchi

Thanks for the inf file. It did work. The display however skipped every other square in the test indicating only 60Hz update. My laptop display which is true 120Hz did display every square.
Click to expand...

On the 50 inch or the 39 inch? And the TV actually said 1920x1080@120Hz right?
 
houkouonchi said:
On the 50 inch or the 39 inch? And the TV actually said 1920x1080@120Hz right?
Click to expand...

And nevermind looked back a few pages and saw you have the 39 inch.

So you alamone and I have all verified that it frame skips and does not do 120Hz natively. No big surprise here. It works on the 50 inch though. I am still waiting to hear back from seiki about this. I might stop by their HQ again if I don't get an email response by tomorrow. I emailed them on the 20th and no response so far...
 
I ordered the MX mount and going to try to mount the 39 incher to it, according to the specs its just under 30 pounds so it's within the weight specs of the MX. Hopefully the arm has enough extension to clear the height of the desk heh...
 
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