NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

prava said:
I honestly don't care about a psu being platinum (useless imo, if you factor the HUGE price increase). Actually, the only thing that matters is that the voltages are stable as a rock... and that the psu be as silent as possible.

Asking for a 450W passive sfw psu... won't happen. Just look the size of the heatsinks used on atx versions....
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High efficency means reduced need for cooling, so Platinum is always something to strive for. Considering the small heatsinks needed in the passive Seasonic X-460FL 460W ATX psu, I honestly don't believe it impossible to have a passively cooled 450W SFX psu.

Yes, an SFX psu has quite a bit less volume than an ATX, but going Platinum should fix the problem. Not saying it would be easy, or cheap, but possible.

Here's a shot of the sinks in the X-460FL, and note that it is "only" Gold certified, so they could possibly be even smaller:

in_top.jpg


That said, I 'd prefer higher power output instead of fully passive cooling, as long as the fan is quiet.
 
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backfeed said:
High efficency means reduced need for cooling, so Platinum is always something to strive for. Considering the small heatsinks needed in the passive Seasonic X-460FL 460W ATX psu, I honestly don't believe it impossible to have a passively cooled 450W SFX psu.

Yes, an SFX psu has quite a bit less volume than an ATX, but going Platinum should fix the problem. Not saying it would be easy, or cheap, but possible.

Here's a shot of the sinks in the X-460FL, and note that it is "only" Gold certified, so they could possibly be even smaller:

in_top.jpg


That said, I 'd prefer higher power output instead of fully passive cooling, as long as the fan is quiet.
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The Seasonic model you mention is almost triple the volume of the SFX Silverstone one, go figure...
 
Tony Ou said:
For sure, I'll ask Marc to review our TD02/TD03 once he finishes with another product of ours. In the meantime, there is a TD02 review up last week if you search for "TD02 review".
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http://www.eteknix.com/silverstone-tundra-td02-240mm-aio-liquid-cpu-cooler-review/

With the SilverStone Tundra TD02 we have a new 240mm AIO king – the Tundra TD02 reigns supreme. For those who want a premium quality, near-silent and extreme performance closed loop cooler but do not need the expendability of competing solutions – the Tundra TD02 ticks all the right boxes.

Nice ! It performs better than the H220. Too bad it isn't in stores anywhere where I buy from (Netherlands, Germany), so I hope this gets resolved a month from now, when it needs to be installed in the Ncase M1.

I do wonder if it will fit well in this case, 75mm thickness with fans is a lot.
 
How would the ASUS GeForce GTX 770 DirectCU II handle this case? I can't seem to find anything regarding the preferred fan style of a GPU but this would certainly be different than the standard blower styles that are usually preferred in small cases like these.
 
backfeed said:
I honestly don't believe it impossible to have a passively cooled 450W SFX psu.......That said, I 'd prefer higher power output instead of fully passive cooling, as long as the fan is quiet.
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SilverStone and High Power are working on new SFX units.

Also, the new Mac Pro supports 2x GPUs at < 6L with PSU integrated (seems like it). That makes me more optimistic about how many watts you can get from SFX.
 
wahaha360 said:
Also, the new Mac Pro supports 2x GPUs at < 6L with PSU integrated (seems like it). That makes me more optimistic about how many watts you can get from SFX.
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2x Highend GPU + 12 core Xeon + 6*10W (Thunderbolt) + Rest of System.
I'd say there is a minimum a 600Watt PSU in there, probably 700 Watt or even more. (The old Mac Pro hat a 980W PSU)

I wonder how loud those mac pros will be, considering that all these components are basicaly cooled by only one heatsink-fan-combo.
 
milkcow said:
2x Highend GPU + 12 core Xeon + 6*10W (Thunderbolt) + Rest of System.
I'd say there is a minimum a 600Watt PSU in there, probably 700 Watt or even more. (The old Mac Pro hat a 980W PSU)

I wonder how loud those mac pros will be, considering that all these components are basicaly cooled by only one heatsink-fan-combo.
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I'll put money down on them being Mobile gpu's. I also seriously question the cooling ability when stressed.

BUT, its not a professional system. Anyone who needs serious work done will get something cheaper and more effective with a more practical form factor
 
foremi said:
BUT, its not a professional system. Anyone who needs serious work done will get something cheaper and more effective with a more practical form factor
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Pretty sure "serious" graphics firms use GPU servers nowadays. No need for anything other than a thin client. But if you're doing it at home, why not have your home computer be pretty at the same time?
 
CHANG3D said:
Pretty sure "serious" graphics firms use GPU servers nowadays. No need for anything other than a thin client. But if you're doing it at home, why not have your home computer be pretty at the same time?
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I fully agree. If my computer is gonna be a desk computer, it should look good. How much is sacrificed for it to look like that will be interesting to find out.
 
foremi said:
I'll put money down on them being Mobile gpu's. I also seriously question the cooling ability when stressed.

BUT, its not a professional system. Anyone who needs serious work done will get something cheaper and more effective with a more practical form factor
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1) most definetly they are custom desktop GPUs (up to 7 TFlops - Fire Pro M8900 only 1.3 TFlops) ;)

2) Mac Pros were not that expensive compared to Dell or HP workstations with dual xeon ;)
Anybody who "needs" OS X and also power will probably buy this.
 
Am I missing something? Would a GPU with dual fans be able to exhaust out the bottom of this case enough?
 
Yes, here is the diagram:
nFnTbOx.jpg

So if you want good GPU airflow, you put in fans on the bottom (or you could just leave it empty and hope the vents can do their job)
 
would fans on the bottom be for exhaust though? with that minimal distance from bottom of case to floor/desk, I would think they would be input.
 
chigundo said:
would fans on the bottom be for exhaust though? with that minimal distance from bottom of case to floor/desk, I would think they would be input.
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wouldn't be a good idea to have fans pushing air out of the case down their. They would compete with the graphics card ;)
 
chigundo said:
Am I missing something? Would a GPU with dual fans be able to exhaust out the bottom of this case enough?
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if you meant exhaust, then no. it is very hard for a gpu to exhaust out of a panel that is so close to it since it sucks air in from that side and you will just get the hot air recirculating through the card. that's why in cases where the card's intake is pretty much up against a panel like this one (and the ft03-mini, and most other itx cases) it is recommended that you use a blower so it can discharge that hot air out the back. those vents on the bottom are there so the card can get cool air to supply the card instead of warm air from the rest of the case, and there are even fan mounts to help supply even more air so you can keep your gpu fan speed lower. so no it wont exhaust out the bottom, but it will intake very well from there. (see sammy's pics.)
 
Well that's what I'm struggling with... I'm looking at the Asus GTX 770 with the two fans.. but I can't tell if those exhaust off the card or pull into the card.. if they blow away from the card, that would make the Prodigy a smart choice for this particular card because of the vents on the side.. and would prove to be a problem for the M1... but if they blow ONTO the GPU, that's a whole other ball game.

14-121-770-TS
 
I'm pretty sure all graphics cards with 2 fans or more blow air onto the GPU. (Sucks it in from surroundings, pushes it on PCB, hot air just disperses everywhere)
 
Question for water cooling pros out there. This case has a great setup for getting fresh cool air from the outside to run through the radiator. Would it be practical to create ducts so that the hot air from the radiator gets directed right back out of the case (through the top) instead of getting dumped inside the case?
 
Frazhna said:
Question for water cooling pros out there. This case has a great setup for getting fresh cool air from the outside to run through the radiator. Would it be practical to create ducts so that the hot air from the radiator gets directed right back out of the case (through the top) instead of getting dumped inside the case?
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In a good water loop the water wont get much above ambient so its not really "hot" air.

For example, My ambient is normally around 21-23C, my water has never hit 30C, normally hovering around 25C.
 
I figured this belonged here. I sent an email to Silverstone. This was their reply.

Dear Drew,

Thank you for contacting SilverStone,

We are currently working on a SFX 550watts power supply but we don&#8217;t have a release date yet.

You can pick from one of the following ITX cases
SG07
SG08
SG09
SG10

Thank you

Best Regards,
[Employee Name here]
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chigundo said:
So with a GPU card that has two fans, those blow air out away from the card, correct?
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Nope, they blow inside the card, IE they push air into the heatsink, and then air takes the easiest path to leave.

PS: in order to know the direction of a fan... just look at the "structure". The motor hub is always held on the side the air leaves the fan.
 
SithSolo1 said:
550w would be enough for a GTX 690 and an OC'd i5/i7 right?
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By my calculation(which could be off), yes a non oc-ed 690 and a 4.3Ghz 4770k with 2 sticks of RAM, 1 HDD, 1 optical, and 1 SSD would have enough power, with very minimal room to spare, on a 550watt psu, as long as it is as high of quality as the 450 is. However, heat may be an issue in this specific case since the 690 would dump part of its heat into the interior of the case. A 7990 would be really iffy as it would stress and push the psu much harder and the heat in the case would be tremendous because the 7990 dumps all of its heat in the the interior of a case.
 
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Necere already commented that dual-GPU's is probably outside this case's league considering cooling. I may be done, but it won't be silent.
 
Phuncz said:
Necere already commented that dual-GPU's is probably outside this case's league considering cooling. I may be done, but it won't be silent.
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I have no plans to do it as its way outside my budget, but I think if you air cooled the cpu with a mild-OC and water cooled the 690 it might work. I just didn't know if it would fit in the power envelope of a 550w psu.
 
SithSolo1 said:
I have no plans to do it as its way outside my budget, but I think if you air cooled the cpu with a mild-OC and water cooled the 690 it might work. I just didn't know if it would fit in the power envelope of a 550w psu.
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Unfortunately that probably wouldn't work. You'd need a 240mm rad for the 690 and that would mean you'd have to use a low profile/very low profile hsf for the cpu which probably wouldn't allow any OC on the CPU.

If you were to use a 690, you'd probably would want to use a 240mm rad for the CPU having the fans as exhaust and using the bottom 120mm's and the rear 95mm as intakes.

I am sure someone will be using a 690 in this case if the the silverstone 550 is released. Although I am not sure if its worth it long term. I think if you are building a new system right now, you are better off going with a 760 or a 7950 now and upgrading to Maxwell or AMD's next gen next year, that is unless it is clear by October that TSMC won't be on schedule.
 
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foremi said:
In a good water loop the water wont get much above ambient so its not really "hot" air.

For example, My ambient is normally around 21-23C, my water has never hit 30C, normally hovering around 25C.
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Thanks for the reply, I haven't ever used water cooling so I hadn't thought about what the temp of the air going through the radiator would be. Now that I think about it, it makes complete sense that the air coming out of the radiator wouldn't be that hot.:eek:

If hot air was coming out of the radiator that would mean the water is hot, which would mean not much cooling effect in the water block. Obviously this is not the case or else water coolers wouldn't perform as well as they do.

I think I'm going to look a little harder at getting a water cooler.:D
 
Thank the gods SS is working on a sfx 550w unit! If they pull this off it will make some huge difference in the SSF market. Thrilled they listened to the fans. Kudos Silverstone! And Kudos Tony! I'm sure he played a part in it as well. :)
 
Necere said:
np.

We've been in 'soon' status for a while now. But the preproduction sample is currently in shipping, and assuming everything looks good when I inspect it, we should be pretty much good to go for the campaign.
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I fall of the face of the Earth for 6 years, and you made this? Pretty cool! I actually would love a small case for the living room htpc - currently have a cheap/ugly full atx taking up a ton of space. The kids have hammered on it too, the door broke off years ago and the power switch is disconnected so they cant turn it off. lol

Ill stay in touch!

Also, im pretty shocked my account is still active, and that i remembered the password..
 
Skott said:
Thank the gods SS is working on a sfx 550w unit! If they pull this off it will make some huge difference in the SSF market. Thrilled they listened to the fans. Kudos Silverstone! And Kudos Tony! I'm sure he played a part in it as well. :)
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Tony Ou already said in the SFX topic that a higher watt SFX PSU isn't going to happen within 6 months.
 
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