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Dell S-Line Screens - S2740L, S2440L, S2340M, S2340L, S2240M
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Namelessme
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@Racer_J
Thanks again for the detailed response.
One thing I am still curious about... how do you personally like the monitor? Does the benefit of increased black levels/contrast outweigh the angle issues, in your opinion?
Overlooking AG coating issues, which do you prefer, your IPS or your VA?
Thanks again for the detailed response.
One thing I am still curious about... how do you personally like the monitor? Does the benefit of increased black levels/contrast outweigh the angle issues, in your opinion?
Overlooking AG coating issues, which do you prefer, your IPS or your VA?
I think fading as in the corners appear to be dimmer as though there isn't as much light coming through. Though not very accurate, I took a picture that shows what I'm talking about:
Namelessme
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Looks like backlight bleed to me. And yeah, that can vary monitor to monitor.
This turned into a much longer reply than I had intended it to be. I felt it was important to be as thorough as possible though as I would rather give too much information rather than give to little which could leave out a critical piece of information. It was also important for me to go into such detail as these details are what lead me to decide what I prefer and why.
When it comes to a "test environment" like looking at the "readability test" and the "streaky picture test" PixPerAn, I think it's incredible with how the motion looks considering the Dell S2440L is an A-MVA panel. However, I need to stress that it only handles motion well in that situation if you overclock the Dell S2440L to 72Hz and set the brightness on the Dell S2440L to 0. If you don't, it's a blurry mess just like it is on the Dell U2311HM and I'm sure several other monitors. There is something about the way that 72Hz and the PWM flicker with a brightness setting of 0 interact with one another. There will still be some dark overshoot. and you will be able to see the "multi edge effect/ghosts" but, the "multi edge effect/ghosts" will be there at any level of brightness. It's just that they are all blurred together in a streak at a brightness setting of 100. The PWM is the catch though, because if you get a Dell S2440L without PWM, you will not be able to take advantage of the increased clarity as there will be no "strobe" effect. To give you an idea of how big of a boost it is, with the brightness set to 100 and the Dell S2440L overclocked to 72Hz, I can only get to a tempo of 6 or 7 on the "readability test in PixPerAn. With the brightness set to 0 and the Dell S2440L overclocked to 72Hz I can get to a tempo of 16 in PixPerAn (though it is a bit "fuzzy") and I can even make out text all the way to tempo 23 which is just crazy for an A-MVA panel. Obviously this would have an effect on faster movement in a game as well.
When it comes to hooking up something other than a PC to it like an xbox 360 or a DVD player, the Dell S2440L is just terrible. It will run at 60Hz in that situation so your 24p content will look choppy as there is no pulldown support (which was expected). The motion on the 360 games was just awful though and full of blur and multiple images of stuff. I couldn't even see Clap Trap in the starting area of Borderlands when I spun the camera at a moderate speed because of the blur.
When it comes to movies, A-MVA wins hands down because of the perceived black level depth. However on the Dell S2440L, you will see both light and dark overshoot from time to time unless you use frame interpolation via SVP (SmoothVideoProject). You can interpolate from 24p to 30FPS with that if the Dell S2440L is running at 60Hz which will add some SOE (soap oper effect). There will be some "flicker" off and on during camera pans where something light is against a dark background but this is most likely an LCD sample and hold issue. You can eliminate it by frame interpolating up to 60FPS but, that will add a noticeable SOE (soap opera effect) and you video will look "sped up" compareed to how you are used to seeing it. The Dell S2440L also has a 1920x1080 @ 30Hz (interlaced) resolution which could be used for video playback. The 1920x1080 @ 30Hz resolution being used on a DVI>HDMI connection, everything except the video will be blurry and jitter (bounce around a bit) so you can only really use it for a video player in full screen. This will not be a problem on an HDMI>HDMI connection and that will also give you a 1920x1080 @ 25Hz resolution (I think it was interlaced). The 1920 x1080 @ 25Hz resolution will be blurry and jitter (bounce around a bit) on everything but the video so you can only really use it for a video player in full screen. The 1920x1080 @ 25Hz resolution will also be full of overshoot though. Essentially you need to at run the Dell S2440L at 1920x1080 @ 60Hz and frame interpolate up to at least 30FPS if you plan on watching 24p content on it.
Overall, I like the Dell S2440L but, I really need an "all in one" display and it doesn't meet that criteria because of how poorly it does with a video came console like the 360. 24p content isn't an issue as I am used to frame interpolating that up to 30FPS but I can see that being an issue for some people as it does introduce some SOE (soap opera effect). As a PC monitor it's fine if you don't find things like the "viewing cone" and viewing angles a distraction. For me personally, the lower perceived black level depth is worth the trade-offs of the "viewing cone" and viewing angle. However, I value low perceived black level depth above everything except input lag and motion handling.
I originally had a comment in here about the colours being "darker/bolder" because of the lower perceived black level depth making them look how they are rather than the "paler" look they have on an IPS because of the higher perceived black level depth. The increased contrast ratio likely has a role in that as well. This statement should was incorrect. Apparently my colours were oversaturated and likely had some contrast and brightness issues as well due to some sort of " communication error". For whatever reason, I had to enable the AMD CCC to use the EDID information for colour temperature control. This was resolved by going into the AMD CCC>My Digital Flat-Panels>Display Colour (Digital Flat-Panel) and checking the box in "Colour Temperature Control next to "Use Extended Display Identification Data (EDID). I'm not sure why this was a necessary step but, it was. Please be aware that enabling this option will push the Red contrast much higher than it should be so you will need to adjust it accordingly. *end of edit*
I have both my Dell S2440L (A-MVA LED) and my Dell U2311HM (e-IPS CCFL) in cloned mode right now. The only thing the Dell U2311HM is better at is the viewing angles and not having the "viewing cone". There are some things the Dell U2311HM would do just as well at (like "focus") if it didn't have the aggressive AG coating on it and the "sparkle" it causes. TFT Central had better calibration results in the "Custom Colour" preset mode with the Dell U2311HM than they did with the Dell S2440L when it came to the DeltaE average and maximum (0.2 avg, 0.6 max on the U2311HM vs 0.6 avg, 1.3 max on the S2440L). However:
TFT Central said:
That means that while the Dell U2311HM has better colour fidelity/accuracy, someone will most likely not immediately notice a difference on the Dell S2440L (at least as far as their test samples were concerned) but it will be there. This is likely a result of the CCFL backlighting in the Dell U2311HM as the Dell S2440L is W-LED. However the Dell U2312HM had a better DeltaE average and maximum than the Dell S2440L did which is also W-LED (0.3 avg, 0.9 max on the Dell U2312HM vs 0.6 avg 1.8 max on the Dell S2440L).
I can't tell you which how "accurate" my Dell U2311HM and Dell S2440L are to one another as I don't have any calibration equipment. I couldn't use TFT Central's Dell U2311HM settings as they were way to "green" but using TFT Central's Dell S2440L settings, then "eyeballing" the Dell U2311HM to match, I don't notice a lot of difference in colours barring the gamma being too high on the Dell U2311HM.
* start of edit* There was originally a comment here about bolder colours on the Dell S2440L due to the lower perceived black level depth and that the green at 48% on the Lagom gamma test page and the green on the Vanity.DK homogenuity test page look very different between the Dell S2440L and the Dell U2311HM. I also said that it struck me as inaccurate and unrelated to contrast and perceived black level depth and pointed out that the gamma is probably around 2.0 on the Dell U2311HM and around 2.2 on the Dell S2440L. Even with the gamma at 2.2ish on the Dell U2311HM (by lowering the brightness or it in the AMD CCC flat panel section) there is still a big difference. A picture of the difference was also included:
Dell U2311HM is on the left and Dell S2440L is on the right
This situation was an issue with accuracy. Apparently my colours were oversaturated and likely had some contrast and brightness issues as well due to some sort of " communication error". For whatever reason, I had to enable the AMD CCC to use the EDID information for colour temperature control. This was resolved by going into the AMD CCC>My Digital Flat-Panels>Display Colour (Digital Flat-Panel) and checking the box in "Colour Temperature Control next to "Use Extended Display Identification Data (EDID). I'm not sure why this was a necessary step but, it was. Please be aware that enabling this option will push the Red contrast much higher than it should be so you will need to adjust it accordingly. *end of edit*
Even ignoring everything I just stated, I prefer A-MVA over IPS because of the lower perceived black level depth but I would say 33% to 50% of my usage is watching video. Given my very specific needs, and the disappointments I have had recently with TVs (and no it had nothing to do with pixel pitch) I decided to give an A-MVA monitor a try. At the same time, (and I can not stress this enough) I absolutely love the viewing angles on IPS. Given that I don't really do colour critical work/hobbies, the "viewing cone" isn't a big deal for me and it's impact can be reduce by sitting further back (which no one is going to want to do if they are in a program like Photoshop). Even at a distance of around 40" though, the "viewing cone" is still there and I would say that roughly 1/5th to 1/4th of the left side (starting at the left bezel and going towards the middle) and of the right side (starting at the right bezel and going towards the middle) will be out of the "viewing cone" (based on the "viewing cone" being in the middle of the screen) and will be subject to a different gamma, contrast ratio, and perceived black level depth as a result. Those differences will be much more noticeable the closer you are to the screen but this is all based off of a solid colour (the dark grey here at [H]ard|Forum) filling the entire screen. The differences aren't as stark looking at something you would actually use (like the [H]ard|Forum message board) but, they will be there and they will be noticeable. I have to sit at least 37" away to "minimize" the impact the viewing cone has on the dark grey here at [H]ard|Forum but, I will see it if start moving side to side in my chair at that range.
That having being said, if I didn't hold perceived black level depth in such high regard (or was willing to use multiple displays rather than one for every purpose under the sun), I would most likely prefer IPS. As it stands though, perceived black level depth is a crucial element for me and it was time to stop using the Dell U2311HM as a "placeholder" and pick up something that had the appropriate perceived black level depth (where it looks like ink) and didn't take a performance hit when it came to games/motion. The "viewing cone" and viewing angle issues were a fair tradeoff for my particular situation as no display is capable of doing it all at an "affordable" price and, I think the jury is still out when it comes to OLED.
I was going to say it was IPS glow from being too close to the display but, that's two different colours and it looks like the camera was somewhat centered horizontally and perpendicularly. It's my understanding these newer IPS panels have a "silvery" IPS glow so perhaps IPS glow on the left and flashlighting (a form of backlight bleed) on the right? I guess it could also all be IPS glow with a lot of tinting on the right.
How close was the camera when you took the picture?
Does any of it go away if you were to put your head/eyes (I don't mean look, I mean physically move your face there) in each corner? If it does, It's IPS glow and it's related to how close you are to the screen. It's sort of the equivalent of a VA panel's "viewing cone" but without the gamma and contrast shifts. It can be very deceptive as it can be mistaken for flashlighting and backlight bleed especially when the IPS glow and the backlight bleed are the same colour (like on the Dell U2311HM).
Also as Namelessme pointed out, all of that can vary from panel to panel even when it's the same panel model number from the same production run.
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I forgot to include a link to my review of the Dell S2440L here at [H]ard|Forum. It hasn't been updated to reflect the motion clarity improvements from overclocking the Dell S2440L to 72Hz and there are some other updates that likely need to done to it as well. Discussion about that can be found later on in the same thread. The review is full of a lot more details than I have gone into here. In case anyone is wondering why I posted the review in the 4:4:4 low input lag TV thread, it's because a huge chunk of the Dell S2440's usage time would be devoted to movies and console gaming and that thread was a more appropriate fit for it. I had inteded to use it in a similar manor that I would a TV (barring cable/satellite viewing). I was also trying to avoid having to keep up with multiple discussion about that review in different threads but it seems that is a lost cause and was just wishful thinking. Some of you may find the plethora of information in the review helpful while others will likely be cowering in the corner wondering how in the hell I could possibly go into any further detail than I already have.
The issue with the greens looking "wrong" has beed "corrected". This was resolved by going into the AMD CCC>My Digital Flat-Panels>Display Colour (Digital Flat-Panel) and checking the box in "Colour Temperature Control next to "Use Extended Display Identification Data (EDID). I'm not sure why this was a necessary step but, it was. It may have something to do with running DVI>HDMI but, it shouldn't.
*start of edit* Please be aware that enabling this option will push the Red contrast much higher than it should be so you will need to adjust it accordingly. *end of edit*
That sort of makes me wonder if the Dell S2440L TFT Central reviewed could have had a better DeltaE maximum and average (assuming they used AMD/ATi and didn't know about this).
*start of edit* Please be aware that enabling this option will push the Red contrast much higher than it should be so you will need to adjust it accordingly. *end of edit*
That sort of makes me wonder if the Dell S2440L TFT Central reviewed could have had a better DeltaE maximum and average (assuming they used AMD/ATi and didn't know about this).
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I have no idea about the Dell S2340L but, you can make any monitor look as accurate, inaccurate, under saturated, oversatured, dull, etc. as you want it to (within the limitations of the panel's colour space). There will be plenty of adjustments in your video card's control panel to aid you with that. The Dell S2440L is an A-MVA panel and you need to understand and accept that it will different from an IPS panel. They are not going to look the same because of the differences in perceived black level depth, contrast ratio, viewing angles, etc. You're either going to like it or you're not and, no one can tell you that but you. There is an abundance of thoughts about the Dell S2440L in this thread and all the possible research that can be laid before you on it has been. You're either going to have to purchase it and find out or wait for someone else to come along and tell you what to do. That may sound harsh and I don't mean for it to but, that is just the flat out truth about the situation you are in.
As for an IPS panel being "sharper" than an A-MVA panel, I have no idea how you even came to that conclusion. Granted my Dell U2311HM as an aggressive AG coating on it but, I seriously doubt it would be "sharper" than my Dell S2440L is (barring any minute change from a slightly better pixel pitch). What I can tell you is with both of them kooked up in cloned mode, the A-MVA is sharper because "ClearTpye" is adjusted for its B/G/R panel and not the R/G/B panel in the Dell U2311HM. If you're having problems with text sharpness on the Dell S2440L you need to make sure you are running at 1920x1080, have the sharpness in the Dell S2440L's menu set to 50, make sure the "image enhance" option is turned off in the Dell S2440L's menu, make sure you're video card control panel isn't trying to do anything with your I/PQ (image/picture quality), and adjust your "ClearType" properly or tun it off and deal with jagged edges. There is no reason you should be having issues with text clarity.
livefastdieyoung
Limp Gawd
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it's ips glow. some of these new ips panels have different colored glow left to right. my vx2770smh looks like that.
Well that's odd. Thank you for the clarification on that though.
Indeed. AH-IPS 'feature'. Which makes most of them have light blue bad backlight bleed in the lower left corner.
You might want to try gently "flexing" the frame at the edges and corners. I was able to clean up all the backlight bleeding on my Dell U2311HM that way. If you start repositioning the monitor you've done this with though (like using the tilt, rotation, or other stand adjustments) it can come back which means you will need to "flex" it again. It helps even out the pressure on the panel since the cases tend to have so much give in them but, it may not fix all the backlight bleed. The backlight bleed on my Dell U2311Hm was "mild" and could have been mistaken for IPS glow (had some near the top edge and some minor flashlighting) so it may not work with more "severe" backlight bleed. It could make it worse though as it takes a bit of trial and error to see where you need to "flex" and how "flexing" one area causes another area to react.
I omitted a couple of crucial words. What I meant was:
"Indeed. AH-IPS 'feature'. Which makes most of them look like they have light blue bad backlight bleed in the lower left corner." ... while the bottom right corner might glow as much, its in a deep bronze tone that is much less noticeable.
The flexing tip is still interesting, though. I read some post a very long time ago from a monitor repair-person that much of the BLB found in displays, is due to the fact they dont mount the panels properly or that the whole casing is bent. Might be difficult to cure everything with flexing, though. Some cases might be easier than others.
I took the picture maybe about 17" or so away. It definitely goes away when I physically move my head to the corners. That is to be expected, right? I know it is hard to tell from that picture as it blows things out, but does that seem normal to you, or excessive? Thanks again for your incredibly helpful responses.
That confirms it's just IPS glow. IPS glow is to be expected and it is the most irritating thing about IPS panels. As for what's "normal" with IPS glow, I don't really know if there is anything other than "normal" but, I have limited experience with IPS. An increased viewing distance can help hide it though and a lower brightness setting can help as well. It will always be there to some extent though just like "viewing cone" on a VA panel will be.
I just finished updating my review for the Dell S2440L to reflect my experiences with it since I originally wrote it. Several pictures from PixPerAn have been added including moving camera shots to give a close approximation of how the "multi edge effect/ghosts" look in person as well as stationary camera shots (like you would see at TFT Central). I still don't know about keeping it since one of my criteria was console gaming and the motion handling on consoles at 60Hz is really subpar. On the other hand, I don't think there will be a better A-MVA monitor available right now unless the BenQ GW2x50HM or GW2x60HM lines can be overclocked and benefit from increased motion clarity from that as well as additional increased motion clarity from dropping their brightness levels down to get a better PWM to refresh rate sync. I know the BenQ GW2x50HM line has better overdrive but, that doesn't mean clarity can be improved to the point of being able to read at a tempo of 16 through 23 on the "readability test" in PixPerAn. That level of clarity at 72Hz is going to trump being slightly better at dark overshoot at 60Hz.
carajean206
Gawd
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OK guys I just picked up the Dell S2340M from BB to replace my Dell 2407. The monitor is gorgeous! The problem I have is screen tearing. This monitor has so much screen tearing in any given game. My specs should be in my sig.
Anyone else have this issue?
Anyone else have this issue?
Regular Daddy
Limp Gawd
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I just ordered this for my gf because she will be working from home so I figured this would make a good monitor for just working/light browsing. I hope it's as good as you say.
It's certainly more than one would need for working/light browsing. I have a 27" Apple Cinema Display at work, and the S2340M at home, and the Dell looks just as good to me.
Has anybody seen this s2340m from frys? The pic shows bezels to be really thin, could be perfect for eyefinity/surround.. I'm going to pass by Frys tonight to check out if the bezels really are thin.
http://www.frys.com/product/7345574?site=sa:adpages page:P37_MON date:020413
http://www.frys.com/product/7345574?site=sa:adpages page:P37_MON date:020413
Promotional pictures for these "virtually no bezel" monitors are misleading, with some just outright being doctored. Yes, the actual bezel itself is very very thin..but the panel itself still has about a half inch black border around it.
eddie33081
Limp Gawd
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I was wondering how everyone compared the S2440L and S2340M to the U2412HM. I am mainly using it for product photo editing but I do game quite a bit (mostly FPS, Counterstrike etc). I do not watch many movies on my computer.
Can anyone tell me which would be my best bet for me? Is it worth paying for the U2412?
Can anyone tell me which would be my best bet for me? Is it worth paying for the U2412?
Yup, saw this in person last night. The bezel is actually there but is surrounded by a really thin frame that gives an illusion of very thin bezel.
By "viewing cone", do you mean viewing angle? Is that the same thing?
No, they are intertwined but not the same thing. Viewing angles refer to looking at the display from any location that is off center and TN, IPS, and VA panels are all subject to them. The "viewing cone" is something in addition to that and, it only exists on VA panels. The "viewing cone" will appear in the shape of a circle (possibly an oval) on a VA panel and, it will always be located directly in front of where your eyes/head are physically located in relation to the panel.
Everything inside the "viewing cone" will have a different gamma, contrast ratio, perceived black level depth, etc. compared to everything that isn't in the "viewing cone". How much of a variance depends on the hardware and the test pattern being used. With the "viewing cone" in the center of the screen, the variance can be as small as a gamma of 2.2 inside the "viewing cone" with a gamma of 2.1 outside of the "viewing cone" or, it can be as large as a gamma of 2.2 inside the "viewing cone" with a gamma of 1.8 outside of the "viewing cone". There isn't really a limit on how large the variance can be and, I just used examples that I have personally seen.
The "viewing cone" tends to exacerbate how noticeable the viewing angles are because, the variance will be larger the further away an area of the panel is from the "viewing cone". The "viewing cone" and viewing angles certainly impact one another but again, they are actually two separate things.
What I was trying to illustrate with the comparison to IPS glow was:
If you sit too close to an IPS panel or have the brightness set too high, you will see the IPS glow in the corners of the panel which stands out the most on dark colours. This will always be present to some extent if you start moving your eyes/head off center.
If you sit too close to a VA panel, you will see that the corners and edges of the panel (and possibly the top and/or bottom) will have a different gamma, contrast ratio, perceived black level depth, etc. than the "viewing cone" does. This will always be present to some extent regardless of how far back you sit (at least up to 10 feet away with a Dell S2440L).
It was just to give everyone a visual representation that they could hopefully relate to in case they had never seen a VA panel in person. IPS panels still have better viewing angles than VA panels and, the IPS glow in the corners is more manageable and therefore can be less intrusive than the "viewing cone" on a VA panel. In case there is still any confusion, here is a simulated example:
I am hesitant in posting this as it is not realistic but, I want everyone to understand what a "viewing cone" is if they don't. Please note this is a highly exaggerated simulation based on the "viewing cone" being in the center of the panel. It would not be anywhere near this dramatic in person. However, it could approach these levels if you were to put your nose almost to the screen and then move the "viewing cone" to the left or right bezel since that would also bring the actual viewing angles into play. The "steps" in gamma change also wouldn't be well defined as they would work like a gradient pattern does. Again, this is only meant to "demonstrate" what the "viewing cone" is. It is not meant to provide anyone with a photo-realistic example so please do not treat it as one.
Does the "HDMI Bug" still occur when you use HDMI to DVI converter? Or lets say when you connect to DVI on your graphics card? As far as i know the reason the bug occurs is because when you connect the monitor to HDMI your graphics card on the computer detects it as a TV instead of monitor so by theory the bug shouldnt occur with the HDMI/DVI converter as it will plug into a DVI or does is still occur because of the controller in the monitor itself?
Anyone else got more information about this?
Thanks!!!
Anyone else got more information about this?
Thanks!!!
This is a great explanation. Makes perfect sense. Thank you!
eddie33081
Limp Gawd
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Just received the S2740l. So far so good. No dead pixels etc. Im using an ATI video card. Are there any suggestions for color profiles and tweaks in the OSD that I should know about?
Darth Bobo
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according to this review it does support HDCP over HDMI
I got this monitor last week and so far it has been a joy
according to this review it does support HDCP over HDMI
I got this monitor last week and so far it has been a joy
Yes I am aware of that review, thats why I said there are confliction reports. I was hoping someone could confirm it, not google it.
Darth Bobo
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What reports are conflicting this? Anyways according to nVidia control panel both by Graphics card and screen (S2440L) are HDCP compliant, does that qualify as confirmation?