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Surface Pro Anticipation
- Thread starter Grentz
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I'm excited to see how this does. Microsoft hasn't created a successful product line besides the Xbox (Excluding any Windows/Word products). Zune? Kin? What are those? This is the first time I think Microsoft might have created an awesome new product line in a long time.
Keeping an eye on this and the Helix. Both appear to be really well made and excellent specs. Helix beats it out in HD space and battery with the base. Helix comes at a price though. If it is coming out soon, I am shocked that there are no preorders yet. Really hoping they send this thing straight to BestBuy so more people can check it out.
heatlesssun
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Not really sure how one can say the Surface Pro is doomed. Tablet PCs of this nature have been in continuous production for over a decade now. No, it's not going to sell many millions of units but for it should do quite well compared to devices similar to it.
These are my thoughts exactly, although the thought of waiting for Haswell is both torturous and tempting.
wonderfield
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The price doesn't seem all that upsetting. It's a magnesium case, with (reportedly) very good build quality and with a fairly premium display (1080p; optically-bonded). Also, it's Intel, so inexpensiveness never really has a chance to enter into the equation. Sort of the nature of the beast.
Microsoft's problem is a lack of commitment to a lot of their hardware products. They've shown, at least, that they're committed to advertising the Surface, which is more of a commitment they ever made with the Zune/Kin. Ballmer also says that they're committed to the Surface as a product line, but just about anything he says is incredibly dubious.
If Microsoft doesn't pull the plug before Intel's offerings improve a little more, I could see the Surface being a good product for them. My fear, though, is that they yank the plug out after Surface Pro v1. They can't leave this product at Ivy Bridge, call it a day and expect the Surface brand itself to gain any traction.
heatlesssun
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If you look at the history of Microsoft in hardware, they are a lot more diligent than many think. They did bail on Zune admittedly, but the PDA, MP3, non-tablet mobile device market is all but dead, even Apple has seen serious declines in iPod sales. Microsoft is tried and true on keyboards, mice and the tough market of gaming consoles. They even had Windows branded phones and tablet computers many years ahead of Apple and Google, and Windows 8/RT drops almost functionality from Windows XP Tablet PC Edition from over a decade ago.
Surface products are the first Windows devices ever to come from Microsoft, it's really hard to see them dropping anytime soon considering the importance of Windows to Microsoft.
rudy
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You dont count keyboards and mice?
Speaking of Microsoft pulling the plug already, they seem to be backing away from RT and its now being termed dead man walking as a platform due to it being nonexistent at CES outside of Ballmer holding a Samsung prototype onstage during the Qualcomm opener, calling Samsung a key partner and a few days later Samsung announcing the cancellation of their RT plans - ouch (see http://www.pcworld.com/article/2025288/why-windows-rt-is-hurtling-toward-disaster.html)
The whole RT branding was always weird and confusing to consumers, so unless they retool it with an Intel based mobile oriented CPU like those planned for Q2/Q3 then add Surface RT to the list alongside kin, zune, vista, etc. The Pro is the only one with a hope at this point since actual biz customers can run actual meaningful software on it, (why else get a Windows tablet at this point if the Metro apps blow and Tier1 developers continue to shun the platform in favor of iOS/Android, citing nonexistent marketshare especially the tablet and phone offerings).
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My thoughts exactly. I'd like to jump on the Surface Pro, but Haswell sounds like it will be worth waiting for.
rudy
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My favorite part of this article is how they say things like consumers dont understand the difference, Why do companies say that all the time? You tell them the freaking difference stupid. Consumers didnt know about resolution till display companies told them about HD and the same with computers till apple shoved retina in their face with hundreds of millions in ads. And consumers mostly have no clue about SSDs and speed till a salesman describes it to them.
wonderfield
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You didn't actually read the entire post. That's a shame.
Steelgrave
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You mean the millions they've spent advertising all those young people dancing around and clicking the keyboard covers don't show them the differences?
I thought RT was actually a good idea. However it's so poorly marketed yea Jane Consumer will never know what hit her. That and the fact that developers are required to use the windows store to place RT apps on it is a deal breaker for many developers.
heatlesssun
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I read all of your post. I simply think that Microsoft has been more committed to hardware than you're saying here.
The Lurker
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Whats the rumor mill saying?
Maybe 10% boost in performance and a better on die GPU?
If you want to wait, wait for the next architecture, Haswell is an iteration no more significant then Sandy -> Ivy.
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On topic:
I have a Microsoft Surface RT sitting on my kitchen table.....boxed up and ready to go back to the store. Long story short...Its junk. Hopefully Pro will be better, but I ain't holding my breath. I bought a laptop that came with Win 8 too and I couldn't deal with it either, after 3 hours I wiped it and put Win 7 on it. Why the fuck would I load something from the start screen only to have it open the program in the desktop. I might as well just spend all my time on the desktop then since that is where I wind up working 99% of the time anyway.
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Erasmus354
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Haswell is very significant for mobile parts. It brings significant gains in both graphics performance and power consumption.
looks like it will be out on Feb 9
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsof...ace-windows-8-pro-availability-confirmed.aspx
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsof...ace-windows-8-pro-availability-confirmed.aspx
The Lurker
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Like how significant?
Have you read, I have and am not impressed. Its a stop gap before they release an all new architecture, just another move by the bean counters to pressure them into releasing something to boost their stock price.
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Finally some solid details. Shocked they took so long considering that is a little over 2 weeks away.
wonderfield
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They've certainly missed their own target to have it out within 90 days after the Surface RT.
The Lurker
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You are not alone. A lot of market reports I have been reading indicate the same, as well as ultrabooks becoming a thing of the past as well; being slowly replaced with convertibles like the yoga you mentioned.
corrupted223
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I have a iPad and a Win RT tablet. The iPad is relegated to netflix for the wife. I love my RT tab for what I use it for, Remote Desktop to my box when I am in the datacenter or for troubleshooting. Looking forward to getting a Surface Pro since it will be even easier for troubleshooting issues when working on servers.
rudy
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So this is sort of a round about way of saying something like surface is the future lol
The Lurker
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I think you misunderstood me. Surface is not a convertible, its a tablet with a keyboard and certainly not the future.
What qualifications are you using to separate them? The kickstand and keyboard/touchpad quality?
If it's those two things, I agree that they're not great. I hope MS or a third party makes a full fledged keyboard dock for the device.
The Lurker
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Good question. In my mind if the keyboard is not removable but can be position out of the way to resemble a tablet then its a convertible. Basically a best of both worlds, tablet like form factor laptop like keyboard at the expense of size.
So basically what I think I could say is that not all tablets are convertibles but all convertibles are tablets.
I would also think features other than the keyboard will separate the two but I have not done that comparison.
So basically what I think I could say is that not all tablets are convertibles but all convertibles are tablets.
I would also think features other than the keyboard will separate the two but I have not done that comparison.
rudy
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You are going overboard in your analysis, who cares, this is that, that is this? Really people will pick what they like, Saying that convertibles are going to be it seems silly when they were the product many chalked up as a failure as compared to the iPad. So if you can detach the keyboard its not a convertible? Convertibles are the 10 year old past, if they were so great they never took off and the main draw back, price still is not fixed unless they start making them with ARM chips.
Erasmus354
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17W -> 10W
Doubling in graphics power per watt
I would say both of those are incredibly significant. Especially for ultraportables where performance per watt is a huge premium. This will increase graphics performance and battery life on these devices by significant amounts.
wonderfield
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3btj8E6NKA
This obviously isn't TV commercial material, but it looks like they're doing a better job of communicating what this thing is and what it isn't than they did with the RT. "Trusted and familiar; new and exciting" is a reasonable tagline.
No ridiculous gushing about the noises it makes is a plus. The thickness of it doesn't seem at all awful depending on what angle you're looking at it from: it looks beefy, but not overly. I did find it interesting, though, how they seemed to purposely avoid showing how orientation changes work, as the abrupt transition is kind of half-baked compared to Android/iOS. The target demographic may not care all that much, but interesting how the behavior wasn't shown nonetheless.
This obviously isn't TV commercial material, but it looks like they're doing a better job of communicating what this thing is and what it isn't than they did with the RT. "Trusted and familiar; new and exciting" is a reasonable tagline.
No ridiculous gushing about the noises it makes is a plus. The thickness of it doesn't seem at all awful depending on what angle you're looking at it from: it looks beefy, but not overly. I did find it interesting, though, how they seemed to purposely avoid showing how orientation changes work, as the abrupt transition is kind of half-baked compared to Android/iOS. The target demographic may not care all that much, but interesting how the behavior wasn't shown nonetheless.
heatlesssun
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The screen rotation effect in Windows 8 is decent, not flashy like iOS but it is quick and
works well on the desktop and is consistent with Metro apps. Rotating desktop apps isn't nearly as clean as mobile apps.
There are of plenty of other things they could have shown but didn't that are impressive compared to iOS and Android, like the fast and accurate handwriting to text of the onscreen keyboard or character search of unconverted handwriting in OneNote.
But yes, a much more informative commercial than the broadcast ones currently airing for the Surface RT.
works well on the desktop and is consistent with Metro apps. Rotating desktop apps isn't nearly as clean as mobile apps.
There are of plenty of other things they could have shown but didn't that are impressive compared to iOS and Android, like the fast and accurate handwriting to text of the onscreen keyboard or character search of unconverted handwriting in OneNote.
But yes, a much more informative commercial than the broadcast ones currently airing for the Surface RT.
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Agree, these look pretty darn slick. I can't see myself paying $1000 for one of these.
The Lurker
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I got an IBM X60s that did 10 hours on the extended battery in 2006. How much more significant are we talking? Yes, more graphics power is great, but its all relative to exactly what you will do that will benefit from the extra performance.
IMHO when it comes to real world, its not significant enough to matter certainly not enough to make me wait in anticipation. Once again. IMHO this is a stop gap before they bring it out something totally revolutionary. You and I both know if they wanted they could throttle the shit outta this processor and make it consume 1w at idle, they just wont because they can do that in another iteration. Same goes for the GPU performance.
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wonderfield
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That extended battery probably also weighed several pounds. I'm not even sure why you're bringing that up, to be totally honest. Is the argument that extended batteries are preferable to increased efficiency?
Mind that he said doubling in graphics power per watt. A doubling of graphics performance is not highly-relevant for most Windows tablet users, but a doubling of performance-per-watt is highly-relevant. For obvious reasons.
Mind that he said doubling in graphics power per watt. A doubling of graphics performance is not highly-relevant for most Windows tablet users, but a doubling of performance-per-watt is highly-relevant. For obvious reasons.