Opinion: Windows 8 Is Unusable

Wow, this is a stretch.

Wow, that's like a ray of sunshine (pun intended) to see you _almost_ admit to anything, even if it is just picking a fight with someone.

There are plenty of adults that I know that readily concede that their children are much better with technology than they are. Indeed, wasn't there a thread about the very subject on the [H] started last week?

It's evasive of you to bring it up since you're just trying to distract me into forgetting about your baiting and snapping at someone that I mentioned earlier, but if you go read that thread, you'll get the idea that many people on this forum don't buy into that idea at all. You already knew that though and were just using it as a chance to make yourself seem justified in accusing someone of being less capable than a child. It's okay to admit that you're being a poopie head. We all do it. :)
 
How many people care about surfing the web on their desktop? We're talking about a replacement for Windows 7, not a new device category entirely.

While the default web browser with a clean install of Windows 8 is the IE 10 Metro browser that default can be changed to the desktop version or Firefox, Opera, Chrome or Safari that work on the desktop just like Windows 7. Currently have 20 IE 10 tabs open across two browsers on two screens, it's no different than what it would be on Windows 7, except maybe a but faster. It's definitely much nicer to zoom and scroll with my touch mouse and touch pad than in Windows 7. Beats the snot of a mechanical scroll wheel for that stuff even on the desktop.

Do you really see Windows 8 changing the tablet equation much? Windows remains all but dead on phones and tablets while a work in progress are already served by incumbents. Microsoft has rarely succeeded when they attempt to enter into established markets and I don't see why tablets would be any different.

With Windows 8 though it's tablets, hybrids and laptops. The next ultrabooks are being mandated by Intel to all support touch. In the Windows market there's just no doubt that tablets and touch are going to grow simply because that's the focus of the new hardware.
 
Wow, that's like a ray of sunshine (pun intended) to see you _almost_ admit to anything, even if it is just picking a fight with someone.



It's evasive of you to bring it up since you're just trying to distract me into forgetting about your baiting and snapping at someone that I mentioned earlier, but if you go read that thread, you'll get the idea that many people on this forum don't buy into that idea at all. You already knew that though and were just using it as a chance to make yourself seem justified in accusing someone of being less capable than a child. It's okay to admit that you're being a poopie head. We all do it. :)

By stretch I mean nonsense.
 
I blame Ballmer. ;)

I sum it up like this. You like it, you use it, great. I hate it, refuse to use it, great. Everybody is happy.
 
While the default web browser with a clean install of Windows 8 is the IE 10 Metro browser that default can be changed to the desktop version or Firefox, Opera, Chrome or Safari that work on the desktop just like Windows 7. Currently have 20 IE 10 tabs open across two browsers on two screens, it's no different than what it would be on Windows 7, except maybe a but faster. It's definitely much nicer to zoom and scroll with my touch mouse and touch pad than in Windows 7. Beats the snot of a mechanical scroll wheel for that stuff even on the desktop.

With Windows 8 though it's tablets, hybrids and laptops. The next ultrabooks are being mandated by Intel to all support touch. In the Windows market there's just no doubt that tablets and touch are going to grow simply because that's the focus of the new hardware.

I'm happy for your preference, but that is just your preference and you have no data to suggest that others share it or would if they were exposed to the option.

It's also all well and good to know that Intel is mandating touchscreens which will just put their ultrabooks even more into an expensive niche, but that is actually irrelevant to the video which started this topic.

As a desktop OS Windows 8 is a failure, if you're trying to argue that it isn't as bad on a tablet or something that is all well and good but it's besides the point and is just moving the goalposts. I'd also suggest that it is far from guaranteed that it succeeds on tablets, much less phones (thus far it has been a Zune-like failure there) and that you may be short-sighted given your long-term professional dependence upon Windows.
 
These kids now days. Anyone who disagrees with our opinion is a troll amright?

Nope, a 46 year old man who works in this industry every single day. However, would there be a reason you are taking it personally?
 
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a liar. I was genuinely interested, as was he.

Fair enough. The handwriting recognition in Windows has been pretty good for a long time now. The technology hasn't made any big leaps since its introduction in Windows XP Tablet PC Edition but its much definitely faster, accurate and stable since then. Not for everyone but I like it much more than a touchscreen keyboard for text input.
 
I'm happy for your preference, but that is just your preference and you have no data to suggest that others share it or would if they were exposed to the option.

It's also all well and good to know that Intel is mandating touchscreens which will just put their ultrabooks even more into an expensive niche, but that is actually irrelevant to the video which started this topic.

As a desktop OS Windows 8 is a failure, if you're trying to argue that it isn't as bad on a tablet or something that is all well and good but it's besides the point and is just moving the goalposts. I'd also suggest that it is far from guaranteed that it succeeds on tablets, much less phones (thus far it has been a Zune-like failure there) and that you may be short-sighted given your long-term professional dependence upon Windows.

So, how exactly do define a failure? Something that you do not like? By the way, that person who made that video does not have a clue what he is doing which is obvious just by watching that video.

Without even see the later explanation, I already figured he was laying his hand on the touchpad and then trying to blame the OS for his screw up. (PEBKAC to be exact.) After that, I could not respect anything he said anymore. :rolleyes:
 
Oh, and I find Windows Phone to be fantastic and a great success even though it is not taking over the market. I personally find it get the work done and is much better than iOS or Android for me.
 
So, how exactly do define a failure? Something that you do not like? By the way, that person who made that video does not have a clue what he is doing which is obvious just by watching that video.

Without even see the later explanation, I already figured he was laying his hand on the touchpad and then trying to blame the OS for his screw up. (PEBKAC to be exact.) After that, I could not respect anything he said anymore. :rolleyes:

Sales contracted meaning that it didn't drive demand, the interface is considered heavily flawed by both a large subset of users and usability experts, and thus far it has done little to improve Microsoft's prospects in any area.

For a more simple explanation, I consider any operating system which uses mystery meat navigation after this much time to get it right as a failure.
 
Oh, and I find Windows Phone to be fantastic and a great success even though it is not taking over the market. I personally find it get the work done and is much better than iOS or Android for me.

Windows phone is tanking in the mobile market.
 
I'm happy for your preference, but that is just your preference and you have no data to suggest that others share it or would if they were exposed to the option.

Not sure exactly what options you're talking about here.

It's also all well and good to know that Intel is mandating touchscreens which will just put their ultrabooks even more into an expensive niche, but that is actually irrelevant to the video which started this topic.

I'm sure than Intel is thinking about price as well and expects the prices of touchscreens to decline as production ramps up. Touch is a big part of Windows 8 and quite relevant to this video. And for what ever reason people think that touch is only on the screen, it can be put into mice and tack pads, even on desktop computers. If you've not tried any type of modern touch device with Windows 8, be it a screen, track pad or mouse, then you're missing some elements that can make Windows 8 MUCH easier to use.

As a desktop OS Windows 8 is a failure, if you're trying to argue that it isn't as bad on a tablet or something that is all well and good but it's besides the point and is just moving the goalposts. I'd also suggest that it is far from guaranteed that it succeeds on tablets, much less phones (thus far it has been a Zune-like failure there) and that you may be short-sighted given your long-term professional dependence upon Windows.

Vista was a failure on the desktop and still managed to be used on the desktop by more people than all other non-Windows OSes combined at the height of its deployment and sold 300 million copies and made money for Microsoft. If that is the type of failure that Windows 8 is on the desktop I think Microsoft can live with that as long as they can make some inroads with tablets and touch. All of this stuff is in a state of flux, hardware is going to improve a lot this year particularly on the x86 side and there probably is going to be an update to Windows 8 this year.

No matter what though I just don't see Microsoft just dropping tablets and touch, sticking in a 20 year interface again and thinking that that will revive the Windows PC market. It's going to have to be a hell of a lot more than just an option to do the same old thing that's 20 years old to turn the market around.
 
Windows phone is tanking in the mobile market.

Actually Windows Phone sales are growing much better than Windows PC sales these days. Of course Windows PCs sales are shrinking so that's not necessarily saying a whole lot.
 
I agree with this in principle although I think he went a bit far.
Windows 8 isn't unusable, but it definitely violates a LOT of human factors guidelines for good UI design.

One of the things he points out that I have had several other people comment to me about that they couldn't stand -- the fact that it treats a touchpad swipe like it was a touchscreen swipe. The motions you generally use to move the cursor on a laptop touchpad are almost unusable in Windows 8 when configured for default behaviour.
 
I'm all for differing opinions, but this is practically free lunch for the wolves. Why make such threads (regardless of who does it), only to see them locked down & people batted around at the end of it?

Windows 8 is quite truly a whipping boy for techies who hate MS one way or another.
 
Sales contracted meaning that it didn't drive demand, the interface is considered heavily flawed by both a large subset of users and usability experts, and thus far it has done little to improve Microsoft's prospects in any area.

For a more simple explanation, I consider any operating system which uses mystery meat navigation after this much time to get it right as a failure.

Sales had already been contracting in the PC market before Windows 8. And the vast bulk of Windows 8 devices that have been on sale since launch are nothing more than Windows 7 machines with 8 on them. Not a lot of touch capable hardware, very few tablets.

Windows 8 is simply much more tied to hardware than prior versions. Once the hardware gets out there and the sales are still sluggish then there's huge problem for Microsoft and Intel as well.
 
I've yet to see anything on tablet OS that supports a CableCard tuner like I have running on my dual 1920x1200 24" Windows 8 desktop. Or support multiple desktops with multiple monitors which I do with Dexpot. Or run Visual Studio natively. Or work with Steam and Origin and multiple GPUs.

AGAIN you bring up hardware and software support.
We freaking get it already.

I never said hardware and software compatibility was bad, EVER.
FFS, I said that it would have been nice had Microsoft built an OS that gave us options.

Quit bringing up the whole hardware and software support, we so fucking get it already. :rolleyes:
 
AGAIN you bring up hardware and software support.
We freaking get it already.

I never said hardware and software compatibility was bad, EVER.
FFS, I said that it would have been nice had Microsoft built an OS that gave us options.

Quit bringing up the whole hardware and software support, we so fucking get it already. :rolleyes:

At least it's a tangent argument instead of a insult bait and attack. I'll take him rambling about unrelated stuff that aren't central to the user interface discussion over him picking fights luring people into being upset so he can seem like a calm, voice of reason.
 
i was quite happy sitting on the sidelines of the 'Win8 debate'. i did try and add to the 'discussion' when win8 was pre-RTM however win8 'proponents' like heatless made it impossible for me to give a shit anymore. still viewed the occasional thread dedicated to win8 tho only as a form of entertainment.

personally i have a copy of win8 (RC) installed in a VM i sometimes use as a testing environment. i like many others couldn't use it 'as is' and installed 'StartIsBack' to make the UI useable.

the argument that the PC market (KB & mouse) is declining is a valid reason for MS to adapt to the changing environment. what i have an issue with is being forced to adopt the new UI so MS can leverage their existing user-base to snag chunks in the mobile market. MS fucked up, they missed the boat with phones and tablets. so why is MS forcing us to work for them? i'd be happy to work with win8 as my main PC OS if MS compensated me, even then i'd have the stipulation they must accept my feedback on UI improvement. instead you must pay for the privilege while MS ignores any feedback.



that's pretty funny, shame the market for a desktop OS doesn't wholly consist of 3yrs...

i think the original 'Windows 8: The Animated Evaluation' conclusion was fairly spot-on. asking for a 'recall' might be slightly excessive tho.
the author raised valid concerns regarding the UI, the convention of the 'Start' button shouldn't have been tossed aside after almost 20yrs (at least not for the desktop).
personally i didn't have as many issues as the author tho i wasn't using a lappy and i gave it more than 30mins to try-out.

frankly, 'metro' and it's inflexible and simplistic 'apps' have no place on a desktop PC thus should be a optional extra. the 'your holding wrong' argument is a little retarded imho. jumping thru hoops with mods and 3rd party programs to get OS to a decent working state when is should be familiar and easy to use 'out of the box' is silly.

the $15/$40 upgrade price is temping tho i'd only pay that if MS patched it so 'metro' could go bye-bye & start button returned. at full price (for desktop PC), no way in hell they're getting my cash. hope MS learns that different computing devices deserve different UIs when win9 rolls out.

The reason MS is working us to work for them is the same reason apple forces its users to install itunes and and google is now cutting support for windows devices. That is what companies do they leverage their power to get them back into, or into markets they are not strong in. It is the most fundamental business tactic and nearly every product you have ever used probably has some tie in to this. Do you really think anything you have used was really just a good product?

Second in order for the 4 Cs of this very video to be true by the very nature of that you must be forced to do things. Otherwise how can the UI be consistent if everyone is always allowed to just revert back to using the old system? How can anything move forward. The entire history of MS has been scared with companies that would in their own selfish interest not work with MS to move forward and therefor MS had to get in and directly compete with them. Office was made for exactly this reason.

I do not know if MS will be successful its a hard market but I do know that most of the decisions they made with windows 8 were the right decisions for them to make. I would have just tried a little harder to smooth people in.
 
AGAIN you bring up hardware and software support.
We freaking get it already.

I never said hardware and software compatibility was bad, EVER.
FFS, I said that it would have been nice had Microsoft built an OS that gave us options.

Quit bringing up the whole hardware and software support, we so fucking get it already. :rolleyes:

I've never said that options were bad, just I don't think that a Metro off option would do a whole lot to stimulate Windows sales long term since that's targeted at a audience that's declining.

Yes Windows 8 has changes in the UI that are targeted for touch and tablets, hard to miss it when its right in front of me everyday. I just want someone to explain to me how an OS that runs the same apps the same way on the desktop as Windows 7, and the desktop is where I spend the VAST majority of my time when using Windows 8 on my workstation, is a tablet OS.
 
I switched from W7 toW8 for one reason. It's new. I'm just moving on. I see zero reason to move the rest of the fam over to W8 though.

Will learn and ask questions as I go. After a couple months of W8 I like it. Snagged Start 8, and it fixed most of my gripes. I use desktop to metro 80/20. Easy peasy.

Have had no driver issues, even from Creative. Like the faster boot time, I like how my profile on MS's cloud. It's not bad.

As for the video...He says he spent a month with the OS and can't find a way to close an app in Metro? It's unusable? Come on. I'm no fanboy, but really?
 
Imo I agree with some of the points presented with his 4 C's based on the usability issues with W8 but it is far from being called unusable.
 
Yes Windows 8 has changes in the UI that are targeted for touch and tablets, hard to miss it when its right in front of me everyday. I just want someone to explain to me how an OS that runs the same apps the same way on the desktop as Windows 7, and the desktop is where I spend the VAST majority of my time when using Windows 8 on my workstation, is a tablet OS.

You still don't get it.
The GUI itself was designed for a tablet, not a keyboard and mouse, at all.

Everyone I've talked to who uses it with a keyboard and mouse all have huge problems due to the swiping functions, and the difficulty that comes with using a mouse in place of one's fingers.
Simply put, Windows 8 was designed for a tablet, not "with tablets in mind".

Those with keyboards and mice need to use Start8.
In fact, Start8 is essential to those who are using Windows 8 outside of a tablet environment.


I've never said that options were bad, just I don't think that a Metro off option would do a whole lot to stimulate Windows sales long term since that's targeted at a audience that's declining.
Dude, who the fuck cares if it "stimulates Windows sales"???
You say you don't work for Microsoft (I know you don't), yet you talk like a freaking sales/marketing drone who works for Microsoft. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Do you listen to yourself?
Yes, turning the Modern UI (not Metro, get it right!) off actually would help improve sales because it would bring people back to what they know and love, the classic Windows GUI, not a bunch of rectangular buttons that only serve to piss people off.
 
God, I do SO love the internet. It used to be that if you were an ignorant twit, only those around you knew it. Now with the internet....clickity click click....and you can display your monumental ignorance and incompetence to the whole world.

I think that Mr. Boyko would do well to contact my wife. She's 65 (I'm 67) and has been using Win 8 on her W500 for a couple of months now,. She hasn't run into any of the problems and says it's better than Win 7 on a tablet.

I'm sure that she could teach him how to use Win 8.
 
I switched from W7 toW8 for one reason. It's new. I'm just moving on. I see zero reason to move the rest of the fam over to W8 though.

Will learn and ask questions as I go. After a couple months of W8 I like it. Snagged Start 8, and it fixed most of my gripes. I use desktop to metro 80/20. Easy peasy.

Have had no driver issues, even from Creative. Like the faster boot time, I like how my profile on MS's cloud. It's not bad.

As for the video...He says he spent a month with the OS and can't find a way to close an app in Metro? It's unusable? Come on. I'm no fanboy, but really?

I'm in the exact same boat as you. I like seeing the advantages of a newer OS that is catered more to new technology like DX11.1 and SSD's. The new Task manager is almost worth the price of admission :cool:

At my job, we switched to windows 8 to get to know it before we have to support it. After some initial confusion, all of us really enjoy the new OS. My W7 PC at home kinda feels outdated. :confused:
 
I see this is why your PC is still on 10.04.
Damn right. :cool:
Actually upgrading would be quite easy, I'm just to lazy to want to customize XFCE for the move to 12.04.

I've also been toying with moving back to Scientific Linux, but Debian distros are just so damn flexible.
LMDE would have been an option, but WINE doesn't play well with it to my knowledge.
 
I think that Mr. Boyko would do well to contact my wife. She's 65 (I'm 67) and has been using Win 8 on her W500 for a couple of months now,. She hasn't run into any of the problems and says it's better than Win 7 on a tablet.

You have pretty much summed my thoughts on windows8 up, I think it is fine for a tablet, not for PCs.
 
Damn right. :cool:
Actually upgrading would be quite easy, I'm just to lazy to want to customize XFCE for the move to 12.04.

I've also been toying with moving back to Scientific Linux, but Debian distros are just so damn flexible.
LMDE would have been an option, but WINE doesn't play well with it to my knowledge.

haha i didn't know my snarky remark would lead me to some good google searches! Thanks dude :)
 
I've yet to see anything on tablet OS that supports a CableCard tuner like I have running on my dual 1920x1200 24" Windows 8 desktop. Or support multiple desktops with multiple monitors which I do with Dexpot. Or run Visual Studio natively. Or work with Steam and Origin and multiple GPUs.

What the fuck do you not understand about "just because it meets your specific needs does not mean it does the same for everyone else"? Goddamn...you are one serious COW(Center Of World) person. "Someone speaks of something I like with less praise than I would give it, therefore they must be STOPPED lest Microsoft be wounded by their piercing blow." For fuck's sake, if you like it so goddamned much, why can you not simply be happy with it?
 
Is that Wallace Shawn from Princess Bride doing the commentary?

Inconceivable!!!
 
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